Bad Vendor Experience

[chevyspy]

Let me first start out by saying that I am not one to complain or expose people but in this case I have to let fellow members know what happened to me, after all, I would want to know.

On August 16th I ordered a V2 EFI Live (commercial version) unit from:

Jesse and Hannah Bubb
Wait 4 Me Performance
23 EMS Lane c22
Warsaw, IN 46582
574-267-3630

I noticed that their website link was under the EFI Live distributor listings; this led me to believe that they were reputable. Upon placing the order, Jesse spent a decent amount of time with me on the phone but kindly indicated that he was not available for too many questions or support, he strongly urged me to use dieselplace.com and the EFI Live forums. He also indicated that as part of the purchase I would receive a starter tune which he would email to me.

I received my V2 within a couple days from Jesse and everything was good. I downloaded my stock tune from the truck and sent it to him via email as he requested. I called to check up a few days later and was told that he was very busy. I waited another week and called again, at this point he acted like he had no idea who I was but then dug through his emails and found my message to him. He said I would have the tune by the next day. When I did not see it, I waited 4 days and called again. Now I was told by Jesse that the tune was sent out and that there must be some kind of problem with my email spam filter, only problem is that I don’t have a spam filter. I then wrote back and gave 2 different emails to respond to.

Here I am a month after buying the unit from Jesse and still no tune. I have called numerous times and emailed almost 10 different email messages. In the emails I was very detailed about my truck and what I would like to have from a custom tune. If you don’t have the time to do something for your customers, you should just tell them.

I hate to say it but this seems like a case of “take the money and run”. I’m not sure how Jesse is with his other customers, and I do realize that he professionally designs tunes for a living. But if you are going to sell items and make commitments to your customers, at least stand behind them. His name is in the EFI Live instruction manual for crying out loud!

Anyway, just wanted to warn any people out there looking to purchase EFI Live, regrettably I would not choose to purchase through Wait 4 Me Performance if I had it to do over again.

I bought from Jesse because he is the closest vendor to me here in Michigan, I feel better dealing with people that I know I can meet face to face if need be, especially on purchases over $500. Besiedes, Jesse claimed to have tuned over 400 D-max trucks, sounded like he knew what he was doing.

Don't get me wrong, he seems like a stand up guy, maybe I'm a customer that fell through the cracks?

[TLKSCHP]

Your making me worry now.
I'm currently waiting on a tune for a little over a week now that I paid extra for when i upgraded my cable.

I'm hoping it's just a simple mistake, I sent one pm and an email last week but didn't get a response.

[chevyspy]

Thats what I'm talking about, the only response I ever received is when I called them, never an email.

[TLKSCHP]

I talked with him on the phone today and he explained how back logged he is at the moment. I know he has answered allot of question for me on the phone several times and little things like that I'm sure put him behind.

[wait4me]

Im not sure why you are posting this all over the net. I have said i sent you the tune to your email several times. I am pretty busy and dont have alot to time to figure out why your email dont work. As anyone else that deals with me would know, im always a phone call away to take care of any questions or tech support for this product. I never even charge for it. From regular guys to full out performance shops. That thrown in with a 40+ vehicle computer a day tunes, That dont leave me a whole lot of time.

Im not complaining that i dont have any time, im just saying i dont have alot of it.

I dont charge you for the tune nor is anyone obligated to give you any tune. Especially for free. The product of efilive was delivered to you quicker than any other software company could have done and i also even paid for your shipping without you even asking me.

Also answered all your phone calls and your questions any time you asked.

Again, i already sent you the tune to your email address several times... Im putting it into this forum so you are for sure going to recieve it.

thanks Jes

[chevyspy]

Jes,

If you don't want to make me a tune for free, then don't do it but don't tell your customers up front that you are going to do it if they buy EFI from you and then forget they exist after the purchase is made and whine about having to do it for free.

I have given you two different email addresses, sorry but they both can't be corrupt, shoot, they are both paid accounts with large storage. I have plenty of messages that make it to me and plenty that go out of both email addresses each week. When I call you (for the 5th time) and you still can't recall my transaction, year of vehicle, name or email address, I think that is where the communication break down is occuring. Gosh, at one point you even asked if I was the guy that was helping to modify my dad's truck, who is that? You may want to put some type of organizational tracking system in place beacuse you are dropping the ball and it's not just with me either from what I have seen in other forums.

If you really gave a rats behind you would take 5 minutes out of your busy day to follow up via telephone (at some point over the course of the last 3 months) and send the tune while on the phone to ensure it is received, heck, have your wife do it if you don't have time. I gave you plenty of opporutunities to do this before I posted on the forums.

Also, it would help if you show me where the tune is in the forum because I don't see it in this thread.

Sorry man, but as a 15 year entrepreneur and as a successful small business owner this is not the way you treat customers and, unfortunately, you will learn it the hard way. You can be the best tuner on earth, if you treat people bad it's going to bite you in the end.

If you’re wrong, own up, move forward and fix the problem. In the end customers will respect this direction instead of the excuses.

Did not want to cause a big issue on the Net, I actually hate doing this but if I sold you something and you were unhappy, I would bet that you would tell others of your experience.

I'm not going to argue anymore, it's over, but you should know that this deal was not pleasant for me.

[Blacky]

I'm not sure where you're coming from with that last post. I saw the tune that Jesse emailed to you and that he posted on this forum. It was available for at least 2 weeks for you to download. At least 50 other people downloaded that tune.

Jesse and I have spoken a number of times about your situation and we have spent a great deal of time figuring out exactly what caused the problem in the first place. Jesse went out of his way to post the tune publicly on the forum so that you could access it. We don't normally do that as it is against EFILive's company policy to post tunes on our forum or web site. We made a special exception to try and help you out.

To post the complaint that you did and to then not check the thread for a response for two weeks is a little unfair. After two weeks we assumed that you had downloaded it and so it was removed. It strikes me as a strange coincedence that only 2 days after the tune was removed, you decide to complain that the tune is not available.

Sorry that your experience has not been pleasant as you expected. We really have tried hard to deliver the tune to you. If you still require the tune, I will copy it onto a CD and mail the CD directly to the address that you nominate.

Regards
Paul

[chevyspy]

Well I wanted to end it at the last reply but let me provide clarification for you too:



I'm not sure where you're coming from with that last post. I saw the tune that Jesse emailed to you and that he posted on this forum. It was available for at least 2 weeks for you to download. At least 50 other people downloaded that tune. If you saw the email, please tell me what address it went to, you have my permission to list my email address in this post. Maybe we will finally get to the bottom of this and discover that the email address was wrote down incorrectly, but how could it have been when I sent the money via Paypal? Also, sorry I have not had a chance to be on the forum for quite some time, I was not aware that it was here. Did it expire or something?

Jesse and I have spoken a number of times about your situation and we have spent a great deal of time figuring out exactly what caused the problem in the first place. Jesse went out of his way to post the tune publicly on the forum so that you could access it. We don't normally do that as it is against EFILive's company policy to post tunes on our forum or web site. We made a special exception to try and help you out. I appreciate you doing this and bending your policy, I guess I am wondering why I was not notified that it was posted? Sorry, but I don't have time to visit this site that often. Also, I am hoping that information like my vehicle VIN number was not posted publicly in that tune.

To post the complaint that you did and to then not check the thread for a response for two weeks is a little unfair. After two weeks we assumed that you had downloaded it and so it was removed. It strikes me as a strange coincedence that only 2 days after the tune was removed, you decide to complain that the tune is not available. I first posted my complaint on Dieselplace where I monitored it for quite sometime, to this day Jess has never responded on that site. After no activity there, I went ahead and posted it here after I discovered that such a post was allowed. Honestly, I had no idea that the tune was available here or that his reply to this post even existed until I signed in and it prompted me.

Sorry that your experience has not been pleasant as you expected. We really have tried hard to deliver the tune to you. If you still require the tune, I will copy it onto a CD and mail the CD directly to the address that you nominate. At this point I would like to drop the argument/subject and move on, but understand that the object here was not expose someone on the Internet only to get them to fire back and then publicly post the tune. I provided two different email addresses, my phone number, my home address and plenty of time, I never saw the tune.

Thanks for looking into this situation, I can tell you that simple communication (like a 2 minute phone call from Wait4me) would have prevented the entire situation.

Listed below is just a small sample of some of the emails that were sent with not one reply. You tell me what you think:

__________________________________________________ _______________
Tune needed pooponford to hannahbubb and jessebubb - Sep 13More Details From: @aol.comHide To: hannahbubb@; jessebubb@:Bcc:Date:Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:57 am2006_GMC_Sierra_Duramax_Jim_Stock_.tun Save images to my AOL Pictures Saving images to my AOL Pictures... View images on AOL Pictures


You can also send the tune to [email protected] as a back up email.

Thank you.

Jim Abr


-----Original Message-----
From: @aol.com
To: hannahbubb@
Sent: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 5:05 pm
Subject: Fwd: URGENT --Tune needed


Here it is again,

-----Original Message-----
From: @aol.com
To: hannahbubb@
Sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 2:50 pm
Subject: URGENT --Tune needed


Hannah,

Jessie said he was going to get this tune to me on Friday, I have still not seen it yet. Can you please make sure he has received this email and attached file. It sounds like he may have misplaced it in the past.

Please let me know when I can expect this tune.

Thank you,

Jim Abr


-----Original Message-----
From: @aol.com
To: jessebubb@; hannahbubb@
Sent: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:37 pm
Subject: URGENT -- Customer Jim Abr EFI Live 2006 GMC Duramax


Resending again, please return this tune as soon as possible. Thank you.

Jim Abraham


-----Original Message-----
From: @aol.com
To: jessebubb@
Sent: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:52 pm
Subject: Fwd: Customer Jim Abr EFI Live 2006 GMD Duramax


Jesse,

Please see the attched LBZ tuning file from my stock 2006 Duramax. I have the LBZ Bosch controller in the truck. As we discussed over the phone, I would like to receive one of your 80 h.p. tunes. Please see the details on my truck below. Thanks again.

Jim Abr
248-343-XXXX


-----Original Message-----
From: @aol.com
To: jessebubb@
Sent: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 1:03 pm
Subject: Customer Jim Abr VIN


Jesse,

Sorry,

I forgot the VIN -- It is -- 1GTHK2422XXXXXXXX


-----Original Message-----
From: @aol.com
To: jessebubb
Sent: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:43 pm
Subject: EFI Live -- Customer Jim Abraham from White Lake, MI


Jesse,

Thanks for selling me EFI Live and building me a starter tune for my truck. The details are listed below:

2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD
Regular Cab -- Long Bed
3.73 Gear Ratio
Approx 5398 LBS Curb Weight
Currently 16,000 miles on the truck
LLY Duramax with Allison T1000 6-speed automatic transmission


Jesse, I am sure you already know this, but the 2006 LLY Duramax is identical to the 2006 LBZ engine as far as hardware is concerned, the only known difference is the tune. The LLY is 310 h.p./605 lb. ft. -- the LBZ is 360 h.p./660 lb. ft. in stock form.

My current mods include:

+ Turbo Back Borla 4" Exhaust with muffler and no catalytic converter
+ Transgo Jr. Shift Kit (mechanically installed in the valve body)
+ Slightly larger 265 75/16 tires
+ Planning to install EGT probe and gauge
+ Planning to install boost gauge

I currently use the truck for daily driving and occasional short distance towing of up to 8,000 lbs. The truck currently obtains about 16.2 MPG.

With this being said, I would like a tune that is somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 H.P. beyond the LBZ (or 120 H.P. total increase over stock LLY numbers) stock tune with improved fuel economy (if possible). From what I have read, the Transgo Jr. valve body modification I have done will help the Allison's holding ability when increasing power through tuning. What I don't want to do is injure my transmission. I am fully aware that you don't want to WOT the Allison in 5th and 6th gears with a modded tune as they are both weak overdrive gears. Also, I would like ability to modify the tune you are giving to me as I start to learn EFI Live a little better. I am most likely going to delete the EGR valve soon after tuning and would like the option to go into the tune and change the parameters so that I don't throw any codes.

My main concerns are:

+ Transmission damage
+ Excessively high EGT's
+ Overall driveability

Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks again for your help.

Jim AbrXXXX

248-343-XXX

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


Regards
Paul

Paul, I really don't know what else I could have done to receive this tune. I guess I am the bad guy here.

[Blacky]

Hi Jim,

I understand you're frustrated by the lack of email response, but if Jesse's emails are not getting through to you then there is not a lot Jesse could have done about it, other than speak with you over the phone. I believe Jesse did speak with you over the phone and told you that that he had sent the tune via email. Obviously a tune cannot be sent via a phone call and given that you were not receiving Jesse's emails, the only other option was to post the tune on the forum so you could download it.

If your email system was working correctly, you would have received an email notification that Jesse had posted the file for you to download. The forum automatically sends out emails to everyone who has posted previously in the thread. Sounds like you did not get that email either.

Are you getting email notifications that messages are being posted to this thread? If not then there is possibly a problem with your email system, maybe the emails are being junked as "spam" by your ISP.

My offer to send the tune via CD still stands.

Regards
Paul

[chevyspy]

Paul,

Paul, I think we are beating a dead horse here. It sounds like you are happy to admit that there could have been a little more done here from a customer service stand point and it sounds like I am willing to admit that Jess is a busy guy and had a hard time getting back to me, even with two email addresses from different providers, this is somewhat understandable.

Anyway, I will PM you my home address and I would appreciate a copy of the disc sent to my house. Not sure why this could not have been done in the first place since the EFI unit came to my home address but that’s neither here nor there.

Lets put the issue to bed and move forward. Once again, I am not one to complain all over the Internet, in fact this is the first time, but if I feel I have had a bad experience I am going to share that with others so they don't receive the same level of service. A share of information is what forum communities are based upon.

Thanks again for your help,

Jim


Hi Jim,

I understand you're frustrated by the lack of email response, but if Jesse's emails are not getting through to you then there is not a lot Jesse could have done about it, other than speak with you over the phone. I believe Jesse did speak with you over the phone and told you that that he had sent the tune via email. Obviously a tune cannot be sent via a phone call and given that you were not receiving Jesse's emails, the only other option was to post the tune on the forum so you could download it.

If your email system was working correctly, you would have received an email notification that Jesse had posted the file for you to download. The forum automatically sends out emails to everyone who has posted previously in the thread. Sounds like you did not get that email either.

Are you getting email notifications that messages are being posted to this thread? If not then there is possibly a problem with your email system, maybe the emails are being junked as "spam" by your ISP.

My offer to send the tune via CD still stands.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

Hi Jim,

You're right the horse has been flogged, poor horse!
I appreciate your patience and I will get the CD to you asap.

Regards
Paul

[duramaximizer]

I have ordered a lot of tunes through Jesse, and his tunes are extremely good, but he is definately not the best at customer service at times....mainly because he has SOOOO many customers. I try to have patients when patience is slim. In the long run he is always there and always top notch. EX. When you fry an ECM. :)

Adam

[Automotive Innovations]

Without looking at the big picture, one could get upset:bawl: . with the volume of work Jesse does its understandable that he might not know his hundreds or thousands of customers by the sound of their voice:blahblah: .but Jesse is not someone who is out to screw anyone. The tuning industry owes alot to Jesse for all of his hard work. without patience you will never be a successful tuner.

[Highlander]

I vouch for jessee.. and i have been prone to bother him with an indexing window crap on a c6.

[horsehaulin]

I bought a V1 from Jesse, and man was he fast at getting it to me. As a matter of fact he took part of his Saturday to meet me as I was passing through Warsaw. I havent asked him to build me a tune for my LB7 yet, as he said he would, but I know that he is busy with a couple of projects.

Tony