procharged 383 with '96 efi only runs 14's @ 96

[tommytooslow]

hey guys! I'm new to the forum and very green on efi, so some well intended guidance will be greatly appreciated. I've got a '96 c1500 that I stroked and poked to 383ci. Without boring you guys I'll try to list as many details of my combination as possible. I think my biggest problem is the stock ecm and stock fuel injection( spider style sfi). I'm thinking of converting to a blow-through carb setup, but maybe you guys can help me out first.

3/4 ton 4 bolt block
scat steel crank
eagle h-beam rods
hypereutectic slugs (9:1 cr)
edelbrock e-tec heads 170cc
small cam 110/120@.050 .513 lift
fully rollerized valvetrain
jet maf
bbk 85mm tb
procharger p1sc w/intercooler 7lbs of boost
th400 trans. w/2200 stall
gearvendors over/underdrive
.410:1 final drive
mickey thompson et streets 28"

My truck has run a best of 14.0@96 elev. 2200'. It weighs 5000lbs.
I had it tuned by the best guy in my small northern canadian town. (He's the only guy! LOL) Shouldn't it be quicker? One guy posting here says his fullsize 4x4 is running 12's with a v6!!!I know my heads and cam are small but the truck tows my ski boat and my camper at the same time so big horsepower parts won't really work. Sorry i left little to no info on my pcm tune but like I said @ the start of the post... I don't know s#!t about the laptop tuning!
Any help would be hugely appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[Stealth97]

What was the 60' time? 96mph is low for this combo but it does weigh 5000 lbs.

Do you own EFI Live? Any tune can be made better. Lets get started.

[ChipsByAl]

If you are running the stock 1996 PCM, EFI Live won't tune it. Did you update to the newer 0411 PCM? If you haven't it would be a good idea since Boost is accounted for. If so post the file.
Al

[tommytooslow]

Thanks for taking the time to help guys. The guy who tuned my truck uses superchips software. He is a technician at a local GM dealership so I assume he knows his stuff. To ChipsByAl, please tell me a little about the 0411 pcm. Yes I am still using the stock pcm, it has no fuel/timing maps above 5500 rpm. If I do upgrade my pcm will my puny 19lb injectors keep up to more rpm? On the 60' time, my local track is really rundown so no 60's or 660's. I can only guess and that won't help!

[Aloicious]

the PPE forum will be a great asset if you're modding an L31 vortec.
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/index.php

read the two stickies for info about the 411 pcm swap, and if you're interested in upgrading your 19# poppets to some real injectors then read the other sticky about the marine intake manifold swap. good stuff over there. I've done both the 411 pcm swap, as well as something simmilar to the marine intake MPFI and would highly suggest both.

if you're tune isn't very good, then that is very possibly a majority of the problem...do you know what your injector duty cycle is? you may be running out of fuel too with that 19pph drip system from GM.

[tommytooslow]

Mr. Aloicious.

You have shed light where there was only darkness. The marine intake and 411 pcm may be exactly what I need. Thanks so much for the info. No-one up here( Prince George, Can. ) is running high horse efi set ups so reliable information is hard to come by. I'll keep you posted on my progress!

[Aloicious]

Mr. Aloicious.

You have shed light where there was only darkness. The marine intake and 411 pcm may be exactly what I need. Thanks so much for the info. No-one up here( Prince George, Can. ) is running high horse efi set ups so reliable information is hard to come by. I'll keep you posted on my progress!

no prob man, lots of very knowledgeable folks over at the ppe forums, feel free to ask questions over there, but I'd suggest reading the both stickies first, they're long but will answer alot of questions. if you're planning on doing your own tuning, the 411 and efilive is the way to go, and this is a great place to learn tuning. IMO EFI is the best, if you are able to control it correctly, no matter what power level you're running.

BTW that truck of yours sounds sweet, you'll like it alot more once you're able to fuel it correctly. I hear those prochargers are very good units too.

[joecar]

tommy, welcome to the forum...:cheers:

[tommytooslow]

Aloicious

I realize that the marine manifold will solve my fuelling issues but would you happen to know the rpm range. I will spin the motor to 6000 if the 411 allows me. Thanks again for your insight. If this works and is affordable it'll be the best piece of info that I've learned in a decade of hot-rodding. :cheers:

[Aloicious]

Aloicious

I realize that the marine manifold will solve my fuelling issues but would you happen to know the rpm range. I will spin the motor to 6000 if the 411 allows me. Thanks again for your insight. If this works and is affordable it'll be the best piece of info that I've learned in a decade of hot-rodding. :cheers:

the 411 will let you spin it to 8k if you tune it to, plus it runs a faster processor, and the tuning tables have more resolution, allowing for finer tuning detail. the 96-98 blackbox have an RPM limit of around 5800 I believe, no one has been able to fix that, even with tuning, it seems to be hard wired into the programming. the 411 swap is fairly cheap and easy as long as you have a way to tune it, like with efilive, it can be done for around $100-150 or less if you find some deals, its just a matter of getting the 411 PCM, connectors, and a couple of pins and wire to splice in, then you just simply repin the wires from the blackbox connectors to the 411 ones, with a couple splices. it took me a total of about 8 hours to do in a 19* unheated garage. I would suspect that it could easily be done in 3-4 hours if everything is prepared beforehand.

the marine intake can be a bit more expensive, mine isn't an actual marine intake but the folks who are doing the marine intakes say it will run usually from $700-$1000 for it. the threads in the ppe forum have all that info on it. as well as places to get them from and details of what need to be done for them.

[Stealth97]

Instead of the marine intake, why don't you look at the tunnel ram. A member here is offering them for a good deal (less than the marine). His name begins with a C and he drives a white truck. I think his username is like CMH or something like that but I can't remember. Look around, he posts often.

[Aloicious]

Instead of the marine intake, why don't you look at the tunnel ram. A member here is offering them for a good deal (less than the marine). His name begins with a C and he drives a white truck. I think his username is like CMH or something like that but I can't remember. Look around, he posts often.

like a carb tunnel ram? or like a vortec ramjet? a ramjet would be sweet.

[Stealth97]

like a carb tunnel ram? or like a vortec ramjet? a ramjet would be sweet.

I meant like the Vortec RamJet. A member here offers them. His name might be CCOE or something. I'm trying to remember. I'll search around.

[Aloicious]

I meant like the Vortec RamJet. A member here offers them. His name might be CCOE or something. I'm trying to remember. I'll search around.

sweet, ramjets are nice, thats something to look into.

[tokymon]

do the 411 swap i did it in like 4 hours with a little planning bought computer and connectors from local scrape yard for $150

[tommytooslow]

Thanks to all for the insight. I made some calls to local wreckers and I can't beleive how cheap the 411 pcm is! Would it be helpful to pull the wire harness off of the donor vehicle, and if so, what vehicle/engine should I look for.

Thanks again to all!:rockon:

[Aloicious]

Thanks to all for the insight. I made some calls to local wreckers and I can't beleive how cheap the 411 pcm is! Would it be helpful to pull the wire harness off of the donor vehicle, and if so, what vehicle/engine should I look for.

Thanks again to all!:rockon:

maybe only for the the couple of pins you'll need to splice in. but that would be the only use for it, so it doesn't matter what vehicle it comes from and you would only need like 12" of the harness.

PM the member named 'lextech' here, or over on the PPE forums and he can get you the pinout spreadsheet for your year. like tokymon said, its pretty simple. just pull 1 wire at a time from the old harness and put it in the new, if you pull more than that you can get lost and screw up real easy, that could make a 4 hour job into a 80+ hour job trying to find and fix errors.

[Stealth97]

Thanks to all for the insight. I made some calls to local wreckers and I can't beleive how cheap the 411 pcm is! Would it be helpful to pull the wire harness off of the donor vehicle, and if so, what vehicle/engine should I look for.

Thanks again to all!:rockon:

The 12200411 Needs a 2001-2002 L31 V8 4L60E powered Xpress Van operating system and tune file installed into it. The 12200411 did not come stock with this file but can easily be put into it. I use a software different than EFI Live to tune other users computers because it is not VIN locked. EFI Live is a far superior product however, and is supported far better and is far more advanced. Blacky has done a great job! EFI Live unlimited tune is a reasonable price for a tuner/shop. This other software was just VERY inexpensive for the DIY user and so I bought one.

A few other problems if you try to use the Xpress Van PCM straight out of the Van and into your truck. I'll list what I remember but read that PA & A sticky.

1. Must disable VATS via programming. I did this for 11 people and sent out PCM's in the past. I live in Los Angeles. You anywhere close?
2. You must change the alternator something in the PCM programming to be correct and not throw a code.
3. You must turn off some emissions codes as your truck will have less emissions equipment than the van (applies to 96-97). 98-99 I'm not sure because they MIGHT come with the extra tank pressure sensor and correct wiring for the extra smog equipment. They do come with extra wiring and the tank pressure sensor but I'm not sure if all the emissions equipment passes all the OBDII checks. If you use EFI Live and under Diagnostic Checks you would see what I mean.


You don't need the wiring harness from the donor vehicle, but a cut off harness with 1 foot of wire is HELPFUL. If not, you need to source some of your own wire.

You also need some of the pins and a crimper. If you get your PCM with 1 foot of wire it solves a lot of problems. I'll explain.

1. You get the connectors. Bonus. Red and Blue are preferred but Green will work just fine, don't sweat the small shit, just snip off the little tab and don't put it in reverse on the colors (Worst thing that happens is a blown 20A fuse, I tried it on purpose for you guys already!).
2. You get lots and lots of 1 foot wire pieces and it is the correct GM TXL TGL etc. automotive wire. Very expensive. I buy mine from www.eficonnection.com also a member here who also drives a badass Chevy and is now offering SICK SICK SICK innovative parts for L31's! Very advanced stuff so hang around awhile and you and Michael will become good friends. Got a third gen camaro? He does those too.
3. So you take your 1 foot wire pieces out with the attached crimp ends already on by GM. Bonus, less crimping for you. All you do is splice the wire at the 1 foot mark and run with it. Buy your wire from Mike. What I did was leave the wire long and temped everything in and made sure it worked. Then I went back and carefully removed just the temp wires one at a time and carefully crimped them so I would NEVER have to worry that I was in a giddy hurry and one crimp might ever come loose or some nonsense. I've got 20k on my 12200411 and daily driving it on a RoadRunner by Craig Moates. www.moates.com.

The RoadRunner is a NICE piece of equipment. Buy it and all the software to control it (both versions IMHO, I own everything, hint hint hint). You'll spend $2,500 but in the end you'll love screwing with the programming GM created. And you'll tune your buddies Vette down the block, and your kids GTO. Etc.

Sorry for the long winded post, but you seem interested. Had to catch you up to speed a bit.

Stealth

Edit: Pretty sure I've got both current spreadsheets for the 96-97 and 98-99 trucks.

[Aloicious]

Stealth is right on the money on all that stuff. Mike from EFI connection is a good guy who is very familiar with the 411 swap, so if you need various parts he can get them for you.

also, Stealth, unless you've kept in touch with Jeff, I don't think you've got the most current '96-97 files, I don't have them either. since your day over at the ppe forums we identified and fixed an EGR wiring issue with the 411 on the '96 and I think an A/C wiring issue too. we also found some subtle differences between the '96 and '97 years so IIRC there is separate files for the '96 and '97 years now. just FYI if you weren't already aware.

[Aloicious]

also, like Stealth mentioned earlier, there are alternatives to the marine intake, that you may want to investigate as well. like the ramjet seen here on a '98 truck:
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1194/4228829/8866862/121866288.jpg

or you can convert most any manifold made for vortec heads, like mine is a modified TBI intake for vortec heads that was modified for MPFI, and to keep all the stock vortec emissions equipment and Tb, etc, here's a pic of it:
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq337/guitargeek1968/Picture117.jpg

[tommytooslow]

Just a quick shout out to Aloicious and Stealth97. Thanks again for all your input. Living this far north (600 miles north of Vancouver, canada) means that we don't have to worry about emissions or appearing stock. That is why the blow-through carb was a consideration.Besides emissions and appearance, are there any other benefits to the marine intake over an aftermarket efi setup(though the marine set-up will be a perfect fit for my intake boost tube ).Sorry if I keep thanking you guys, but to a guy that's poured in a boatload of benjamins for sub-par performance, you two are the vortec shangri-la.

cheers

[Aloicious]

Just a quick shout out to Aloicious and Stealth97. Thanks again for all your input. Living this far north (600 miles north of Vancouver, canada) means that we don't have to worry about emissions or appearing stock. That is why the blow-through carb was a consideration.Besides emissions and appearance, are there any other benefits to the marine intake over an aftermarket efi setup(though the marine set-up will be a perfect fit for my intake boost tube ).Sorry if I keep thanking you guys, but to a guy that's poured in a boatload of benjamins for sub-par performance, you two are the vortec shangri-la.

cheers

if you don't need to worry about any emissions or inspection stuff, then you have tons of options, you can pretty much take ANY manifold that wil bolt to your heads, and convert it to MPFI which can run off the stock PCM or the 411. check out the work this guy has done:
http://www.hotrodsolutions.net/
he is the one who did the work on my manifold, I actually purchased my manifold already completed, so I didn't ever have any contact with him, but the work he did on it was excellent.

you also have great options like the ramjet, which I really like, or something like the holly/weiand stealthram seen here:
http://www.holley.com/data/products/pictures/large91405201.jpg

the thread about the marine intake is a wealth of information regarding any MPFI manifold swap so even if you don't plan on running a marine intake, it will still help out tremendously with things like wireing and sensor placement, etc.