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SS2win
February 28th, 2009, 11:01 AM
I just got my guts kit and since there is no documentation I thought I'd write some up.

The tools you need to do the job include a couple Torx screwdrivers, size T25 and T20, a 7/64 and 29/64 drill bit (1/8 and 7/16 work well too) some desoldering wick, a sharp razor or SMD desoldering tools/skillz, and a soldering iron with a fine point tip.

First step is to disassemble the ECM. Remove the (4) T25 cover screws and (6) T20 screws holding the circuit board in place. Flip the circuit board over and remove the EEPROM (labeled Intel AB28F400B5). THIS IS WHERE YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL. I found out the hard way that the traces on the circuit board are not very robust and, compared to other boards I've worked with, will pull off the circuit board very easily. Screwing up a solder pad will render your ECM junk or at least difficult to repair. For my second attempt, I opted to remove the EEPROM by cutting the legs with a razor. This is actually an easy way to do it but you destroy the EEPROM in the process. It's not a big deal if you're planning to permanently install the roadrunner.

While cutting the EEPROM off the circuit board is pretty easy, you want to ensure you don't damage a solder pad. Work slowly and avoid side loads. Place the razor against the body of the EEPROM and gently push straight down being careful not to let the razor touch the circuit board. This will make sure the pressure is directed at the body of the EEPROM and not the solder pad on the circuit board. The legs are made of thin soft metal so it doesn't take much pressure to get the job done. Go slowly until you have all the legs cut.

Once the EEPROM is cut from the circuit board, use your soldering iron to desolder and pickup the EEPROM legs, then use the soldering iron and some desoldering wick to remove excess solder. The pads should be clean and flat with no excess solder before continuing. Work as fast as possible to avoid overheating the circuit board and possibly damaging a solder pad. I can't stress being careful enough. The solder pads are weak and will lift off the circuit board easily!!

Now that the EEPROM is removed and the solder pads are clean, carefully place the header on the circuit board paying strict attention to the alignment of the legs. Solder a couple legs down so the header can not move and then solder each leg of the header down. Watch out for solder bridges and loose solder that can short two legs together. Use the desoldering wick to remove solder bridges if they occur. Once the header is installed, you may seat the roadrunner on the header.

The next step is to drill the case for the roadrunner circuit board support and for the USB cable to exit the case. Accurately drilling for the support may seem tricky at first but I found it's really easy. Use some ink on the end of the support and assemble the ECM temporarily. If you do it right, it will leave a mark as a guide which you can use to accurately drill a 7/64" hole. While you're drilling, drill 29/64" hole in the case for the USB cable. Note that the kit includes two supports of differing height. Be sure to use the correct one so that the roadrunner circuit card is supported properly. For the record, I used the shorter of the two in my 12200411 ECM.

Now with any luck you can assemble the case, screw down the plastic screw / support and seal the USB cable with silicone sealant.

I have some pics of the process hosted HERE (http://www.florida4x4.com/tech/rr-guts) and I have some video of the installation that I'll post later (could be much later given my track record with video editing :unsure: ). Let me know if I missed anything or if you have a better method for removing the EEPROM. Also, if you have a spare EEPROM, I need one to fix the first ECM I attempted this install on. :doh2: :hihi:

BTW, thanks to Craig Moates for providing the pics in the above link. (http://www.florida4x4.com/tech/rr-guts)

SS2win
March 11th, 2009, 02:31 PM
anyone find this useful?

GAMEOVER
November 14th, 2009, 01:02 PM
Sorry for bringing this thread back, but I found it very informative and plan on purchasing the Guts kit and attempting this......:D

GAMEOVER
November 14th, 2009, 01:03 PM
anyone find this useful?

Yes, very useful!!!:thumb_yello:

hquick
November 14th, 2009, 11:10 PM
Great idea with the info...cause as you said ZERO info comes with the guts kit....which I find astonishing.
Why cut the legs off the flash chip when you can just desolder it?
The kit I bought had no 'support' screw....or whatever.
Do you have any pic's of this?
Also...forget the USB plug/socket which comes with the kit and run a USB-B cable straight to the on-board socket (SAVE YOURSELF ALOT OF GRIEF).

SS2win
November 15th, 2009, 03:11 AM
I cut the legs because I don't have the proper desoldering equipment and wound up pulling up a few solder pads by using too much heat/force. The mainboard is not as robust as others I've worked on and it was a shitty surprize when I found out! Cutting the legs ruins the chip but it's really easy to desolder once that's done. Just be sure to cut at the body of the chip and don't cut into the mainboard.

Alternately, if you don't want to cut the chip there are some good videos on youtube with alternate methods for desoldering surface mount chips. One uses a special solder to bridge the legs together so you can lift it off before the solder cools.

GAMEOVER
November 19th, 2009, 10:57 AM
SS2win, are you going to post the Video? Just wondering... Want to get as much info as possible before I attempt this....:shock:

SS2win
November 23rd, 2009, 02:00 PM
I don't think I'll get the video done anytime soon if ever. Well maybe if I get some down time on turkey day....

You've seen the links in Mr. Prick sig, right? and the link to the page on florida4x4.com in the faq? That should be enough to get you going. It's really not that bad. The worst part is removing the chip. Make sure you get a long enough USB cable and plug it in directly. The only other thing I would try to do differently is find a decent mechanical seal for the cable. Smothering the hole with silicone is just too unprofessional and will most likely fail at some point.

N0DIH
November 24th, 2009, 03:41 AM
Brutal! I used tools at work, but you can use a paint striping heat gun to heat it up, but you must be very careful. Don't be surprised if you are holding the heat gun as high as you can once you get the solder melted to keep it that way. It isn't something to use for the beginner! Cutting the leads IS a good safe way, but of course the old part is toast.....

Just be careful not to pull the traces off the board with too much heat, it is easy to do with an iron. Especially one too hot.


Great idea with the info...cause as you said ZERO info comes with the guts kit....which I find astonishing.
Why cut the legs off the flash chip when you can just desolder it?
The kit I bought had no 'support' screw....or whatever.
Do you have any pic's of this?
Also...forget the USB plug/socket which comes with the kit and run a USB-B cable straight to the on-board socket (SAVE YOURSELF ALOT OF GRIEF).

N0DIH
November 24th, 2009, 04:01 AM
I sent a part number for a chassis through hole USB bulkhead connector. It is a Molex part. Anyone can buy it, weatherproof too. Craig hasn't looked at it yet. I need to finish up my PCM with it to show people.

Look at these: http://www.molex.com/molex/family/intro.jsp?oid=-18121&channel=Products&familyOID=-18121&frellink=Introduction&chanName=family&pageTitle=Industrial%20USB%20Type%20A%20and%20B%20 Plugs%20and%20Receptacles%20|%20Overview


I don't think I'll get the video done anytime soon if
ever. Well maybe if I get some down time on turkey day....

You've seen the links in Mr. Prick sig, right? and the link to the page on florida4x4.com in the faq? That should be enough to get you going. It's really not that bad. The worst part is removing the chip. Make sure you get a long enough USB cable and plug it in directly. The only other thing I would try to do differently is find a decent mechanical seal for the cable. Smothering the hole with silicone is just too unprofessional and will most likely fail at some point.

SS2win
November 24th, 2009, 07:41 AM
I've seen those connectors but with all the warnings against using any kind of splice in the USB I'd rather have a good cable seal. Someone posted pics of said device but I can't remember if it was on here or another site.

GAMEOVER
November 24th, 2009, 09:33 AM
I sent a part number for a chassis through hole USB bulkhead connector. It is a Molex part. Anyone can buy it, weatherproof too. Craig hasn't looked at it yet. I need to finish up my PCM with it to show people.

Look at these: http://www.molex.com/molex/family/intro.jsp?oid=-18121&channel=Products&familyOID=-18121&frellink=Introduction&chanName=family&pageTitle=Industrial%20USB%20Type%20A%20and%20B%20 Plugs%20and%20Receptacles%20|%20Overview

Those are some neat connector's!!!

hquick
November 26th, 2009, 10:42 PM
Here some pic's of what I did (MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RIBBON CABLE COMPLETELY).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/hquick/0411%20PCM/P8030194.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/hquick/0411%20PCM/P8030196.jpg

I expect those cable glands (the one with the plastic 'spring' cable support) are available at radio parts, RS components, Radio Shack...etc...
The gland has an internal rubber grommet which compresses around the cable and seals it.

bvd80
April 21st, 2010, 10:32 AM
Are these "guts kits" still available? I don't see the kits or the Moates LS1 PCM on the Moates site.

N0DIH
April 21st, 2010, 10:37 AM
I talked to them not long ago (less than 3 weeks) and they are not available anymore. Not sure when/if they will do another production run of them.

bvd80
April 21st, 2010, 10:52 AM
I was afraid of that happening...looks like I'll need to find a used one then.

mr.prick
April 21st, 2010, 10:56 AM
That would suck if the RR is no longer available.
If it could be incorporated into the newer PCMs I think sales would be better.
I imagine they don't sell too many for the DOA LS1 in this economy.

A lot of people go to a stand alone like BS3 & F.A.S.T not knowing how good the RR+EFILive is.

monzaaddict
April 24th, 2010, 01:47 AM
roadrunner appears to be available again:

http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=67_56

bvd80
April 25th, 2010, 01:27 PM
Thanks for the notice. I just picked up a guts kit. :mrgreen:

mr.prick
April 25th, 2010, 01:35 PM
Whew!

joecar
April 25th, 2010, 04:44 PM
+1 Whew...!!!

N0DIH
April 26th, 2010, 03:03 AM
Excellent!!!


roadrunner appears to be available again:

http://www.moates.net/index.php?cPath=67_56

ScarabEpic22
April 26th, 2010, 05:49 AM
Wish we had Gen IV ECM support, Id love an E67 RR!

N0DIH
April 26th, 2010, 05:52 AM
What memory IC is in the E67?


Wish we had Gen IV ECM support, Id love an E67 RR!

ScarabEpic22
April 26th, 2010, 10:48 AM
What memory IC is in the E67?

No clue, Im not good with the hardware level stuff yet with ECM/PCMs. Computers I can do, these are similar but very different at the same time. I want to learn eventually, just not enough hours in a day.

Maybe Ross can chime in here.

mr.prick
April 26th, 2010, 12:20 PM
EFILive and RR should work in any PCM we support that it can be squeezed in to, so that also means the 4cyl (LS1 style) PCM. But, I'm not sure it is actually enabled to work with it. I think some people actually got it working in the Allison TCM too.

E40 uses a different flash chip than the LS1 style PCM, E38 is different again, plus the E38 CPU clock speed is 56MHz or something like that, I'm not sure the RR was ever designed to run that fast. But finally, the real estate issue on the E40 & E38.

Cheers,
Ross



Oh my....

The RR is capable of emulating up to 1024k. It doesn't care what PCM it is installed into personally, but it does provide some info to the software side so things can be done a bit more judiciously.

The first 2 digits of the serial number indicate the 'intended' or 'installed' usage. This is typically either 01 (for 512k) or 02 (for 1meg). This is almost entirely specified in order to facilitate correct OS matching etc with the target device from the software perspective.

EFI Live uses this part of the serial # to determine what types of binaries/tunes it should be allowed to upload. This typically will help to prevent confusion. As folks swap RRs across multiple PCMs, that goal won't necessarily be achieved.

I don't believe TC has a 'check' in place on the serial # to try and determine PCM type. The 'check' or the refusal to upload/sync from EFI's side can be worked around I believe, contact Paul or Ross for details on this if necessary.

The V6 is a different animal, mostly 512k but still not identified via 01 or 02. I think I have a placeholder in there like 04 = 'other'.

Keep in mind that uploading a file into a RR that is installed into a DIFFERENT type PCM than what the file is intended to be functional within has no hope of working.

Also, on the FW 12.13 -> 12.14, the only difference is a modification to smooth out the RTACS. With 12.13, it would occasionally hiccup a bit. No other changes.

Hope this helps,
Craig

:gossip:
:secret:

Frost
April 26th, 2010, 06:50 PM
Nice, I just picked up a RR and license.

L31Sleeper
April 27th, 2010, 04:51 AM
Is there a "Guts Kit" for the Dual Flash, why did Moates stop selling those ??

N0DIH
November 7th, 2010, 03:41 PM
They stopped because the vast majority of people don't know how to solder SMD boards and parts. Very very few people have the patience, tools and experience to work on them safely. I know... I have been doing this stuff since 1996....

I have already heard of some dual flash horror stories...


Is there a "Guts Kit" for the Dual Flash, why did Moates stop selling those ??

claudiasan
March 6th, 2015, 12:41 AM
is this connector really working? I dont think so coz when my transmission was outdated only charlotte transmission (http://http://www.twincharlotte.com) helped me well.. otherwise all these were of no use.