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camcojb
April 13th, 2009, 02:52 AM
here's my list of tables and/or things I'd like to see figured out on the LMM's.

1. Shutting off pilot and having it actually shut off. If you zero out the pilot quantity tables in the wot areas it does not actually shut it off, still shows 3.5 mm3 and 240 US. Has always done it on mine from day one.

If I zero out the pilot 1 and 2 pulse tables in the 170 mpa and up range it closes the pilot down to 150US and the same 3.5 mm3. Now these tables aren't even supposed to be used after 30 mm3 according to their description, but zeroing them makes a difference at wot, and the truck picks up power.

The ONLY way to shut off the pilot on my truck is to use the max pulses allowed table in the fuel pressure section, setting it to 1 above 2500 rpms. Works perfect, no pilot, but you also lose the timing control.

2. If we can't get the pilot to actually turn off (not an issue with the earlier LBZ, LLY, LB7's from what tuners have told me) then I'd love to see access to whatever table limits the timing to 22 degrees when you shut the pilot off with the fuel pressure pulse tables. Up until that point I can get the timing I want with the pilot US at 150 or 240 as above (although I have to command a couple degrees more than I want to get there, some other limiter at work it appears). Once the pilot is off it will not go beyond 22 degrees which kills the performance of the truck.

3. This one is an annoyance more than anything else, and only applies to the guys with twins who have removed the air valve assembly. You get a dead pedal every once in a while. No check engine light, no warning. Always happens after coming to a stop, like at a red light. You go to accelerate when the light turns green and you're in limp mode. A simple key off/on resets it and you're fine again. Thing is sometimes it's happened 5 minutes apart, but mostly does it once every week or two. I've bumped my limp fuel enough that I can get the truck out of the intersection, but not so much that I can't tell it happened, so I can reset the key. No check engine light, but with the air valve disconnected there is a P02E8 code pending always; will not clear. I have it set to not report (which it doesn't) but it still goes into limp mode. Have tried changing parameters in the air valve table, but haven't found anything that helps.

The timing limiter with no pilot or getting the pilot off without using the fuel pressure pulse tables are the most critical. We'll never get the LMM's to run equally with the LBZ's and earlier without it. Obviously, this is for Ross who has nothing but time on his hands.................... :)

Jody

OSUBeaver
April 13th, 2009, 02:01 PM
here's my list of tables and/or things I'd like to see figured out on the LMM's.

3. This one is an annoyance more than anything else, and only applies to the guys with twins who have removed the air valve assembly. You get a dead pedal every once in a while. No check engine light, no warning. Always happens after coming to a stop, like at a red light. You go to accelerate when the light turns green and you're in limp mode. A simple key off/on resets it and you're fine again. Thing is sometimes it's happened 5 minutes apart, but mostly does it once every week or two. I've bumped my limp fuel enough that I can get the truck out of the intersection, but not so much that I can't tell it happened, so I can reset the key. No check engine light, but with the air valve disconnected there is a P02E8 code pending always; will not clear. I have it set to not report (which it doesn't) but it still goes into limp mode. Have tried changing parameters in the air valve table, but haven't found anything that helps.



Wow. I haven't had that happen. Hope I didn't just set myself up by saying that.

camcojb
April 13th, 2009, 02:07 PM
Wow. I haven't had that happen. Hope I didn't just set myself up by saying that.

lucky me................ :doh2: Do you always show the P02E8 code pending and it won't clear?

Jody

OSUBeaver
April 13th, 2009, 02:48 PM
lucky me................ :doh2: Do you always show the P02E8 code pending and it won't clear?

Jody

Just checked, yep it's there. What OS are you running. Not to complicate all this or anything....just wondering.

camcojb
April 13th, 2009, 02:54 PM
Just checked, yep it's there. What OS are you running. Not to complicate all this or anything....just wondering.

I've tried two different ones. My stock OS is 7103 and also did a full flash to 7083, both had the same issues.

Jody

GMPX
April 13th, 2009, 04:30 PM
Jody, thanks for the wish list post, this sort of thing really helps us.
I've printed it out and will take a look as soon as I can. Dead pedal without a DTC is pretty nasty though, tracking down faults without any DTC reference is tough.

No doubt the day I sit down to do it all GM will release another OS update for one of the vehicles we support! The 2010 models will be here soon and that usually means lots of work.

Cheers,
Ross

camcojb
April 13th, 2009, 04:35 PM
Jody, thanks for the wish list post, this sort of thing really helps us.
I've printed it out and will take a look as soon as I can. Dead pedal without a DTC is pretty nasty though, tracking down faults without any DTC reference is tough.

No doubt the day I sit down to do it all GM will release another OS update for one of the vehicles we support!

Cheers,
Ross


thanks Ross. I would think the air valve is the issue. I have it set to not report, so there's no check engine light (even though it always shows a pending P02E8 dtc with the scan tool). I figured that even though it isn't tripping the light since it's shut off, it's still going into limp mode.

It's possible that it's not related, but my truck has never had this issue until the twin install and removal of that air valve.

Jody

OSUBeaver
April 13th, 2009, 04:50 PM
No doubt the day I sit down to do it all GM will release another OS update for one of the vehicles we support! The 2010 models will be here soon and that usually means lots of work.

Cheers,
Ross

Screw them. :cucumber: :grin:

J/K I can't imagine the task it is to work through all this.

OSUBeaver
April 13th, 2009, 04:51 PM
Jody, do you get the "reduced power" or whatever message on the DIC?

camcojb
April 13th, 2009, 04:54 PM
Jody, do you get the "reduced power" or whatever message on the DIC?

no, no warning at all. Always happens after a full stop like at a red light. Hit the pedal to go, limp mode...................... :bad:

GMPX
April 13th, 2009, 05:51 PM
To go in to reduced power with only the P02E8 in the background just seems odd.
I just wish there was a way on these Bosch ECM's to just have a global "Not Fitted" type parameter. Set to 'No' and then all DTC's and processing for whatever it is gets bypassed.......hey, a guy can dream!

Cheers,
Ross

P.S - Nice Chevelle on the website.

GMPX
April 13th, 2009, 09:13 PM
ok, looks like I did not get the timing tables correct on the LMM, no wonder you guys have been scratching your heads.
Revised cals will be out shortly, it should all make sense then. I made some incorrect assumptions on what certain tables were used for.
Essentially by you shutting off the pilots the ECM was using a timing table specifically for no pilot injection, however, there is 3 of them, you only saw one!

Cheers,
Ross

OSUBeaver
April 14th, 2009, 01:00 AM
Thank you very much Ross!

camcojb
April 14th, 2009, 02:10 AM
ok, looks like I did not get the timing tables correct on the LMM, no wonder you guys have been scratching your heads.
Revised cals will be out shortly, it should all make sense then. I made some incorrect assumptions on what certain tables were used for.
Essentially by you shutting off the pilots the ECM was using a timing table specifically for no pilot injection, however, there is 3 of them, you only saw one!

Cheers,
Ross

man, that's great news. Thanks Ross! Can't wait to try it out. Only way I can shut the pilot off is with the fuel pressure pulse table. That's fine with me, so hopefully now these new tables will get the timing back up. I was using the Table A for no pilots, but it was still being limited. Had every table up including max allowed. I was puzzled for sure, now it makes sense........... :cheers:

This is the best part of your product, that you can actually have a board like this that communicates directly with the engineers that build the product (as well as many helpful members). Thanks again.

Jody

IdahoRob
April 14th, 2009, 02:29 AM
Jody, I don't think your dead pedal is from the air valve, as you're the only LMM twin truck I have heard of this problem. One of the reasons I wanted you to load in another OS.

The dead pedal issue is really wierd and I don't think it's in the tune because many others are running the same tune for many, many months without the issue.

Thanks for the updates Ross, that is sweet!!!!! Good job Jody putting the problems into words!!!!

camcojb
April 14th, 2009, 02:34 AM
Jody, I don't think your dead pedal is from the air valve, as you're the only LMM twin truck I have heard of this problem. One of the reasons I wanted you to load in another OS.

The dead pedal issue is really wierd and I don't think it's in the tune because many others are running the same tune for many, many months without the issue.

Thanks for the updates Ross, that is sweet!!!!! Good job Jody putting the problems into words!!!!

lucky me.............. :grin: You're probably right, just that it all happened at once. Maybe I need to go back to the other OS and see if it happens. I know all the timing/pilot things didn't change with it but I'm now not positive that it ever limped with that OS. I am pretty sure, but not positive.

Jody

bballer182
April 14th, 2009, 10:10 AM
To go in to reduced power with only the P02E8 in the background just seems odd.
I just wish there was a way on these Bosch ECM's to just have a global "Not Fitted" type parameter. Set to 'No' and then all DTC's and processing for whatever it is gets bypassed.......hey, a guy can dream!

Cheers,
Ross

P.S - Nice Chevelle on the website.

If you ever get the egt probes to work on the LBZ's maybe you could apply the same logic back to the air valve and shut it off... ???

IdahoRob
April 15th, 2009, 01:12 AM
Ross, while your in the LMM stuff, I'm still having that issue with the DTC enabler not scriping over. I have to manually turn off certain codes after scriping. The culprits are;

P041D-P041C
P040D-P040C
P040F
P0403(2nd one)
P2453(2nd one)

Not sure if you have time, thought I'd throw it out there though.

Thanks a bunch,
Rob

GMPX
April 15th, 2009, 10:26 AM
Rob, I'll have to pass that one on to Paul.
Are you able to send him a sample script?

Cheers,
Ross

bballer182
April 16th, 2009, 12:35 PM
Those tables got released today...

bballer182
April 16th, 2009, 12:36 PM
I see B0203... Is this a prologue to fuel limiting tables related to the MAF by chance?

IdahoRob
April 16th, 2009, 03:43 PM
I don't see timing table "D" anymore. I had some trucks that would run off of "D" at times. Thoughts?

camcojb
April 16th, 2009, 03:45 PM
I don't see timing table "D" anymore. I had some trucks that would run off of "D" at times. Thoughts?

good point Rob. One of my latest datalogs trying to turn the pilot down was running off of D.

Jody

IdahoRob
April 16th, 2009, 03:54 PM
Looking at the descriptions now I think the "D" was maybe just one of these others. Looks like "A" is where our problem has been laying Jody. Let the good times roll, anyone want to by a LBZ? Think I'll be in the market for a LMM!

GMPX
April 16th, 2009, 04:35 PM
Rob, the old 'D' table was simply not right, as they are configured now everything should fall in to line. The regen tables are rather odd though (when post injections are on), I've left them out for now, they are not the same size or structure of the A,B,C tables. I'll add them, but for now I figure the others were more important.

Jody, I'd be interested to hear if you think the ECM is still using what was the 'D' table. I don't know why they made such a severe change between the LBZ & LMM with these tables but really, 12 main timing tables!
For you shutting off the pilot's then 'A' should be the tables you are using.

The B0205 MAF was to help for the P0103 DTC (I think that was the right number).

Please let me know how you go with this update.

Cheers,
Ross

camcojb
April 16th, 2009, 04:39 PM
Rob, the old 'D' table was simply not right, as they are configured now everything should fall in to line. The regen tables are rather odd though (when post injections are on), I've left them out for now, they are not the same size or structure of the A,B,C tables. I'll add them, but for now I figure the others were more important.

Jody, I'd be interested to hear if you think the ECM is still using what was the 'D' table. I don't know why they made such a severe change between the LBZ & LMM with these tables but really, 12 main timing tables!
For you shutting off the pilot's then 'A' should be the tables you are using.

The B0205 MAF was to help for the P0103 DTC (I think that was the right number).

Please let me know how you go with this update.

Cheers,
Ross

I was trying some timing changes to see if they had a effect on the cold engine noise this truck makes. I put all the tables back to stock timing except at wot areas. Did a log and noticed that right after a wot 4-5 shift the rpms dropped to just under 2500 and the timing dropped to 1.5 degrees............... :bad: I looked through the tables and noticed that D matched that exactly, so I assumed it was using D at that point. Thing is, it could not have been in regen............... :)

Jody

GMPX
April 16th, 2009, 06:04 PM
Just to clarify, 'D' should not exist in the new maps, you should be seeing only A - C.

B0920 - B0923 should be used when only the Main is on.
B0924 - B0927 should be used when Main + Pilot 1 is on.
B0928 - B0931 should be used when Main + Pilot 1&2 are on.

GM.MAINTSEL_DMA should show you which combination are being used.
If it's still not making sense can you please post a log file with the PID GM.MAINTSEL_DMA shown.

I suspect that the transient tables are what it fell in to after the shift, they are quite low (less than 0 deg at 2500)

Cheers,
Ross

bballer182
April 17th, 2009, 10:45 AM
The B0205 MAF was to help for the P0103 DTC (I think that was the right number).

Please let me know how you go with this update.

Cheers,
Ross
First of all i never had a problem with the MAF trowing codes so i don't know if it helped in that dept. But i would have figured that if it was set to "not equipped" then the ecm would not use it? But i can still log accurate values from the MAF? Is it more of a thing where it shuts off the performance testing of the MAF?

camcojb
April 17th, 2009, 11:00 AM
Just to clarify, 'D' should not exist in the new maps, you should be seeing only A - C.

B0920 - B0923 should be used when only the Main is on.
B0924 - B0927 should be used when Main + Pilot 1 is on.
B0928 - B0931 should be used when Main + Pilot 1&2 are on.

GM.MAINTSEL_DMA should show you which combination are being used.
If it's still not making sense can you please post a log file with the PID GM.MAINTSEL_DMA shown.

I suspect that the transient tables are what it fell in to after the shift, they are quite low (less than 0 deg at 2500)

Cheers,
Ross

ok, did some more datalogging today. The extra timing tables didn't help with my issue.

If I just zero out the pilot table area for wot, you still get a pilot 1. If you zero out the pilot 1 area for full fuel pressure (180 and 190 mpa) it drops to 150US, but still on. If you go into the fuel pressure pulse allowed table and set it for 1 pulse only, the pilot is off, but unfortunately the timing is gone. I changed every table at every elevation, including transients to 20-28 degrees from 2500 to 3500 rpms; I get a max of 17.5 degrees, so there is appears to be a missing timing or limiter table tied to the fuel pressure pulse table.

I have an idea to get the pilot 1 to shut off, and will post back after I try it.

I definitely appreciate your time spent on this Ross.

Jody

fire0021
April 17th, 2009, 01:18 PM
here's my list of tables and/or things I'd like to see figured out on the LMM's.

1. Shutting off pilot and having it actually shut off. If you zero out the pilot quantity tables in the wot areas it does not actually shut it off, still shows 3.5 mm3 and 240 US. Has always done it on mine from day one.

If I zero out the pilot 1 and 2 pulse tables in the 170 mpa and up range it closes the pilot down to 150US and the same 3.5 mm3. Now these tables aren't even supposed to be used after 30 mm3 according to their description, but zeroing them makes a difference at wot, and the truck picks up power.

The ONLY way to shut off the pilot on my truck is to use the max pulses allowed table in the fuel pressure section, setting it to 1 above 2500 rpms. Works perfect, no pilot, but you also lose the timing control.

2. If we can't get the pilot to actually turn off (not an issue with the earlier LBZ, LLY, LB7's from what tuners have told me) then I'd love to see access to whatever table limits the timing to 22 degrees when you shut the pilot off with the fuel pressure pulse tables. Up until that point I can get the timing I want with the pilot US at 150 or 240 as above (although I have to command a couple degrees more than I want to get there, some other limiter at work it appears). Once the pilot is off it will not go beyond 22 degrees which kills the performance of the truck.

3. This one is an annoyance more than anything else, and only applies to the guys with twins who have removed the air valve assembly. You get a dead pedal every once in a while. No check engine light, no warning. Always happens after coming to a stop, like at a red light. You go to accelerate when the light turns green and you're in limp mode. A simple key off/on resets it and you're fine again. Thing is sometimes it's happened 5 minutes apart, but mostly does it once every week or two. I've bumped my limp fuel enough that I can get the truck out of the intersection, but not so much that I can't tell it happened, so I can reset the key. No check engine light, but with the air valve disconnected there is a P02E8 code pending always; will not clear. I have it set to not report (which it doesn't) but it still goes into limp mode. Have tried changing parameters in the air valve table, but haven't found anything that helps.The timing limiter with no pilot or getting the pilot off without using the fuel pressure pulse tables are the most critical. We'll never get the LMM's to run equally with the LBZ's and earlier without it. Obviously, this is for Ross who has nothing but time on his hands.................... :)

Jody

hey jody you may want to check your egr settings this was a issue on my truck a while ago and cause the same condition you are refering to. i have had no air valve on my truck for 60,000 miles no issues becuase of it. I dont know if you have tried setting your air valve settings to this but you can try this as well for your air valve.

10.000000
1.000000
10.000000
1.000000
20.000000
300.000000

camcojb
April 17th, 2009, 01:22 PM
hey jody you may want to check your egr settings this was a issue on my truck a while ago and cause the same condition you are refering to. i have had no air valve on my truck for 60,000 miles no issues becuase of it. I dont know if you have tried setting your air valve settings to this but you can try this as well for your air valve.

10.000000
1.000000
10.000000
1.000000
20.000000
300.000000

yeah, I've since found many guys without air valves and no issues. I assumed it was that due to the pending unclearable dtc, but I'll check the egr settings. Tough to figure out since it doesn't set any codes, other than the air valve.

Thanks.

Jody

IdahoRob
April 17th, 2009, 05:50 PM
ok, did some more datalogging today. The extra timing tables didn't help with my issue.

If I just zero out the pilot table area for wot, you still get a pilot 1. If you zero out the pilot 1 area for full fuel pressure (180 and 190 mpa) it drops to 150US, but still on. If you go into the fuel pressure pulse allowed table and set it for 1 pulse only, the pilot is off, but unfortunately the timing is gone. I changed every table at every elevation, including transients to 20-28 degrees from 2500 to 3500 rpms; I get a max of 17.5 degrees, so there is appears to be a missing timing or limiter table tied to the fuel pressure pulse table.

I have an idea to get the pilot 1 to shut off, and will post back after I try it.

I definitely appreciate your time spent on this Ross.

Jody
Jody, you just pee'd in my cerrios:doh2:

camcojb
April 18th, 2009, 02:03 AM
Jody, you just pee'd in my cerrios:doh2:

yeah, I was a bit bummed cause I thought we had it figured out. I'll post back in a couple hours when I get a chance to try a new idea.

Jody

camcojb
April 18th, 2009, 05:16 AM
my changes didn't work. I know it's pilot #1 that won't go dead, and I followed it through every table related to it with the scan on, so I know what cells it's using as they're highlighted. I zeroed every single one and it still stays lit at 3.5 mm3 and 150US. If Ross can find a table related to the fuel pressure max pulses that limits timing severely when set to 1 pulse max then that'll be the next and hopefully final step in my tuning. Otherwise, the truck is running great, nothing to complain about. I just know it'll go even faster if I can get this darned pilot off...................... :grin:

Jody

OSUBeaver
April 18th, 2009, 05:19 AM
Mine too :yucky:

Thanks for all your posts in here outlining the problem though.

camcojb
April 18th, 2009, 05:24 AM
Mine too :yucky:

Thanks for all your posts in here outlining the problem though.

well, I'm still happy. I've tweaked Robs tune to get it where it's getting the timing and boost he wanted and the truck is now real strong up top, stronger by a full half second over my 12.70 tune from 80 to 105 mph............. :cheers:

There's nothing wrong with Robs tune, just that my LMM won't reach the numbers he's commanding, so I had to tweak things until they did. That's why it's important to datalog things to really know where you are. I thought the truck felt good from the get-go, but after the ongoing tweaks and many many datalogs it's finally reaching the timing and fuel it should, and there's a huge difference in how it runs now compared to where I started.

OSUBeaver
April 18th, 2009, 10:19 AM
I just did some logging and have a question. I noticed pilot #2 is off in my tune and there is a table b0990 that is adjustment to main inj. timing with pilot 2 off. The values in the table are in the 2-3.5 degree range for the most part.

I logged with both maintsel_m and pilot2T_M and pilot2q_m, so it's off for sure.

Is it coincidence that this 2-3 degrees is the amount of timing were getting robbed of even with pilot 1 on? I haven't tested anything yet.

The pilot 1 is still on in the tune I'm running right now since Jody said the changes didn't help.

camcojb
April 18th, 2009, 10:37 AM
I just did some logging and have a question. I noticed pilot #2 is off in my tune and there is a table b0990 that is adjustment to main inj. timing with pilot 2 off. The values in the table are in the 2-3.5 degree range for the most part.

I logged with both maintsel_m and pilot2T_M and pilot2q_m, so it's off for sure.

Is it coincidence that this 2-3 degrees is the amount of timing were getting robbed of even with pilot 1 on? I haven't tested anything yet.

The pilot 1 is still on in the tune I'm running right now since Jody said the changes didn't help.

Pilot 1 is always on for me other than if I limit total pulses to 1 in the fuel pressure tables; but then you lose a ton of timing 10-12 degrees or more sometimes.

I now see pretty much the timing I request as long as Pilot 1 is on, but I've zeroed out #1 pilot at wot areas and 180-190 mpa fuel pressure areas. You'll know if you have it right as the pulse will drop from 240US to 150 US at 100% tp. What is yours showing? The confusing thing about that pilot is that according to the table it should not even be working at wot, the pulse table only goes to 30 mm3, and I'm seeing 110 mm3 at wot. But the scan shows it active and operating in the 3.5 mm3 tables.

OSUBeaver
April 18th, 2009, 10:46 AM
Maybe I need some better logs with this tune. I can't go WOT for very long around here. I looked at a log of an older tune at the track with the pilot on and it was within .5 deg of commanded timing.

But anyway, what does B0990 do?

Example....

At 3450 rpm 108mm3 my timing is 2.1degrees shy of what is commanded in a log I just did today. The value right there in b0990 is 2.0 degrees

Also my pilot 1 shows 150uS

The one with the timing where it should be was 240uS.

camcojb
April 18th, 2009, 10:51 AM
Maybe I need some better logs with this tune. I can't go WOT for very long around here. I looked at a log of an older tune at the track with the pilot on and it was within .5 deg of commanded timing.

But anyway, what does B0990 do?

Example....

At 3450 rpm 108mm3 my timing is 2.1degrees shy of what is commanded in a log I just did today. The value right there in b0990 is 2.0 degrees

I don't have that table on my LMM. It's probably a coolant temp modifier to the timing table with pulse 2 only active. Most of the multiplier tables are zeroed out when warmed up, so they don't affect timing. Should be two tables, one with degrees per rpm and mm3, and then a multiplier table that takes that degree and multiplies it by a factor to determine how much more timing to add at that rpm and mm3.

Jody

OSUBeaver
April 18th, 2009, 10:55 AM
Search for the table. It's with the main timing tables, not the corrections. It's one above maximum timing, pilot off.

This is going to get really wierd if we have different tables.

camcojb
April 18th, 2009, 10:59 AM
Search for the table. It's with the main timing tables, not the corrections. It's one above maximum timing, pilot off.

This is going to get really wierd if we have different tables.

you know, I'm on the shop computer with an older EFI Live software version, so it may indeed be there. Hang on, let me grab my laptop.

OSUBeaver
April 18th, 2009, 11:00 AM
See

camcojb
April 18th, 2009, 11:12 AM
ok, back with the laptop. That table says it adjusts the main timing table when the pilot 2 is OFF. Which timing table are you comparing your numbers to, A, B, or C? Mine lines up with table B, pilot 1 only active.

Jody

OSUBeaver
April 18th, 2009, 11:16 AM
Table B

camcojb
April 18th, 2009, 11:18 AM
Table B

mine matches B almost exactly. Double check that your max allowed tables (with and w/o egr) are set to allow what's in table B also.

Jody

OSUBeaver
April 18th, 2009, 11:20 AM
I'm going to flash in a new tune...I'll be back in a while.

OSUBeaver
April 18th, 2009, 12:00 PM
There might be hope for Rob's Cherrios.

I'll have to do some more testing...maybe I can make it to the drags tonight although it's going to be zoo.

I just flashed in a new tune Rob gave me yesterday. I just saw 0 pilot and 26+ degrees on a little short blip on the highway.

Anyway enough clogging the thread with partial info. I'll be back later..... again.

camcojb
April 18th, 2009, 12:02 PM
There might be hope for Rob's Cherrios.

I'll have to do some more testing...maybe I can make it to the drags tonight although it's going to be zoo.

I just flashed in a new tune Rob gave me yesterday. I just saw 0 pilot and 26+ degrees on a little short blip on the highway.

Anyway enough clogging the thread with partial info. I'll be back later..... again.

well, he needs to share his secret......................... :) I'll get ahold of him and thank him for being so much smarter than me......................:cucumber:

OSUBeaver
April 18th, 2009, 05:54 PM
Jody, unless I'm missing something, you owe Rob a bowl of Cheerios since you ruined his. :hihi:

I haven't nit picked every RPM/mm3 combo in the log, but at least max timing is within .5 degrees of where it should be and the Pilot1 uS, and mm3 both read zero.

Now... my times still suck 12.88 @ 104, but I probably have other persistant and outstanding "issues" as well :bash:

camcojb
April 19th, 2009, 02:06 AM
Jody, unless I'm missing something, you owe Rob a bowl of Cheerios since you ruined his. :hihi:

I haven't nit picked every RPM/mm3 combo in the log, but at least max timing is within .5 degrees of where it should be and the Pilot1 uS, and mm3 both read zero.

Now... my times still suck 12.88 @ 104, but I probably have other persistant and outstanding "issues" as well :bash:

I'll be glad to get Rob a new bowl of Cheerios, but on my truck with two different OS the only way to have no pilot at wot is to set max pulses to 1 in the fuel pressure maps. At that point the most timing I've seen is 22 degrees, and the last time I tried it the timing never passed 17.5 degrees, and that was at 3500 rpms. Talk about a dog..................... :bad:

So I'm sitting here wondering how he got yours to shut off and have timing. Which of his tunes are you running that got you 12.88 @ 104? What elevation, truck mods, any lift kit, big tires/wheels, etc?

Jody

IdahoRob
April 19th, 2009, 02:35 AM
Shoot, I built some many tunes for you two, I don't know which way is up and which tune is what Jody. I'll do a compare and look at his logs and get you something shortly.

OSUBeaver
April 19th, 2009, 02:54 AM
So I'm sitting here wondering how he got yours to shut off and have timing. Which of his tunes are you running that got you 12.88 @ 104? What elevation, truck mods, any lift kit, big tires/wheels, etc?

Jody

Here's the funny thing. With the last tune I raced with, with the pilot on 240uS I ran a best of 12.86 @ 105. I even messed up bracket racing and left with almost no boost, and still ran 13.5 at 105. Ran a handful of 12.93's on that tune.

Truck is lifted 4" with 33" Mickey Thompson ATZ's. I've 60'd 1.81.... last nights were 1.84ish. Need to air down and get some therapy so I can hammer down out of the hole. I think the broken input shaft last year scarred me for life. Still need to go faster, ran 12.99 with the stock turbo.

Track is Portland International Raceway....essentially sea level.

If this is correct http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density-altitude-calculator.php

The DA should have been -600 feet last night.....there goes that excuse. Track is 29 feet ASL in elevation according to that.

Notice I replied to your converter thread :sneaky:...... we be might twins seperated at birth.:grin:

OSUBeaver
April 19th, 2009, 02:56 AM
Shoot, I built some many tunes for you two, I don't know which way is up and which tune is what Jody. I'll do a compare and look at his logs and get you something shortly.

I know...... and thank you for not giving up on us :)

I was running the last tune you gave me (Friday)

bballer182
April 19th, 2009, 02:58 AM
Notice I replied to your converter thread :sneaky:...... we be might twins seperated at birth.:grin:

thats a scary thought...:doh2:

IdahoRob
April 19th, 2009, 03:04 AM
You are right Jerry, from the logs you have no pilot and full timing. You also have room for more fuel now with the pilot off.

You need to get the truck to launch, but your shifting is horrid looking at the logs. Still doesn't appear your converter is locking in 2nd.

OSUBeaver
April 19th, 2009, 03:22 AM
You are right Jerry, from the logs you have no pilot and full timing. You also have room for more fuel now with the pilot off.

You need to get the truck to launch, but your shifting is horrid looking at the logs. Still doesn't appear your converter is locking in 2nd.


You're right Rob..... horrid shifting. When I launch I just listen the truck and watch the tach to make sure it' not going to hit 4000rpm and hang like it has before :bad: Last night was stock TCM tune (like in my email) so it's not a tuning issue with that. I have a feeling you're going to be seeing a shiney black LMM before long.


Yeah I know I need to get it to launch. I've been pussing out on the launches (you can tell by the pedal position in the logs).... and the lift and tires isn't helping things. If I can get a good solid shifting and running truck, I'd even put little tires on it to see how fast it will go. Right now it would still be just kinda fast and look stupid. Can't have both of those :hihi:

camcojb
April 19th, 2009, 03:29 AM
Shoot, I built some many tunes for you two, I don't know which way is up and which tune is what Jody. I'll do a compare and look at his logs and get you something shortly.

thanks Rob.

Jody

IdahoRob
April 19th, 2009, 03:30 AM
That's funny Jerry. For many years I've been faced with issues that come up with running big HP in these trucks. Always gets figured out with help from smart people and testing.

With the efi crew and you two testing I think we can get it all figured out. Hopefully without having to replace hard parts.

camcojb
April 19th, 2009, 03:32 AM
You are right Jerry, from the logs you have no pilot and full timing. You also have room for more fuel now with the pilot off.

You need to get the truck to launch, but your shifting is horrid looking at the logs. Still doesn't appear your converter is locking in 2nd.

yeah, mine doesn't lock in 2nd or third as far as I can tell, never has. I'm wondering if there's a tight converter like stock that still has a triple disc, assuming this slippage is the issue with locking.

Jody

IdahoRob
April 19th, 2009, 03:38 AM
I have customers with the 1054 and 1057. Never had a locking problem. Even the 1055 seems to work really well under big power.

The 1056 is a good converter, but with twin power we ran into the problem you guys are having. Swapped those out for 1054's and problem went away.

The 1058 and ATS converters seem to have this problem more than anything I've seen. My theory on the 5 disc ATS there is too much fluid in between all those clutches and it not being able to apply fast enough because of the slower fluid removal. The 1058 has been a PITA forever.

camcojb
April 19th, 2009, 03:40 AM
I have customers with the 1054 and 1057. Never had a locking problem. Even the 1055 seems to work really well under big power.

The 1056 is a good converter, but with twin power we ran into the problem you guys are having. Swapped those out for 1054's and problem went away.

The 1058 and ATS converters seem to have this problem more than anything I've seen. My theory on the 5 disc ATS there is too much fluid in between all those clutches and it not being able to apply fast enough because of the slower fluid removal. The 1058 has been a PITA forever.

so it sounds like I may be needing a new converter................ bummer, but if it eliminates the lockup issues I'm good with that. Is the 1054 the safest bet for my combo, least amount of slippage? I would be fine with near stock stall, just need the triple disc to handle the power.

Jody

camcojb
April 19th, 2009, 06:33 AM
ok, Rob sent me Jerrys (OSUBeaver) tune to try, which is a different OS than either of the two I previously tried. It works, you can shut the pilot off in the fuel pressure table and still get commanded timing.

Ross, it appears the timing issue is related to particular LMM OS's, at least one doesn't do it. You can get ahold of Rob to find out which one in case he doesn't want it posted on the board, but my 7103 OS and the 7083 OS both seem to limit timing with the pilot of via fuel pressure pulse controls.

Thanks for all the help guys (especially you Jerry for having an OS that works!), it is MUCH appreciated.

Jody

IdahoRob
April 19th, 2009, 06:40 AM
Sooo.....hows it run now?

camcojb
April 19th, 2009, 06:54 AM
Sooo.....hows it run now?

It runs good. I only did some rolling datalogs and the tsm tune had the taps reset and shift points lowered to stock to try, so it short-shifted which definitely hurt the momentum. I'll let you know when I have made some full datalog passes, but I'm positive it's going to be new bests as far as et.

Jody