GREAT Injector info from Calibrated Success!

[Redline Motorsports]

The following is a GREAT article that my buddy Greg put togther pertaining to understanding the critical functions of injectors. I have posted MANY times about why just changing the IFR table when changing injectors is NOT the only table that needs to be changed. Reading this will put the facts on the table.

Keep your eyes open in the future as Greg is scheduling some EFI training classes real soon.

Nice job Greg!

Howard

[GAMEOVER]

Good Article!
I'm always interested in what Mr. Banish writes.

[eficalibrator]

Thanks Howard! I'm just trying to raise the standard for knowledge in the aftermarket. There's a lot of nonsense and garbage being spread these days and it's sometimes difficult to know who to believe. In the end, the science wins. Proving a theory with hard numbers from a real practical application makes it a lot easier to understand why the factory calibrators go through all the trouble to make these tables/values in the first place.

[joecar]

Greg, welcome to the forum...:cheers:


"In the end, science wins."I like that...:rockon:

[mr.prick]

Nice article.
I would like to know in what order do you change
{B3701} Pulse Width Voltage Adjustment and {B4005} Small Pulse Adjust,
and exactly how you change them.
A calc.pid formula would be nice or even a hint.

If you increase the fuel pressure with stock injectors by X.X%
would you increase/decrease these table by that set percentage or
would the change need to be done with voltage, BEN ect. or calc.pid?

I don't want to sound too cynical but, there are blogs and threads all over
explaining why or what you should change with little how to information.
It seems to be popular to explain the science and theory,
but give nothing in laymen terms that someone could do with the tools they have.

:welcome:

[eficalibrator]

Nice article.
I would like to know in what order do you change
{B3701} Pulse Width Voltage Adjustment and {B4005} Small Pulse Adjust,
and exactly how you change them.
A calc.pid formula would be nice or even a hint.

If you increase the fuel pressure with stock injectors by X.X%
would you increase/decrease these table by that set percentage or
would the change need to be done with voltage, BEN ect. or calc.pid?
The sad fact is that this isn't something you tune "on the fly." It's data that you need before you start the engine. You can't have two unknowns (airflow and fuel flow) with only one equation (air/fuel ratio) and find the right answer. You need to be certain that one is right before solving for the other. Since the aftermarket is in the business of changing the airflow, we must have good fuel flow data to solve the new airflow. If you know neither, you're in for a rough time solving for both simultaneously; as there are many possible pairs of solutions, but only one correct pair.

I'm working on a training DVD right now that will include both the "How do I correct these tables?" and the "Where is the data?" questions. The DVD will include a spreadsheet with many of the popular Ford racing injectors' data converted into GM units that can actually be used. Guys like Howard who have already been to my advanced training class have already seen (and been using) this data with success.

[hquick]

Thanks for the information Greg.
I have your book and am looking forward to the DVD. Kinda limited over here as to taking classes from people such as yourself.
I have never been able to understand how 'Pro' tuners can just change the IFR tables when tuning for larger injectors and be happy that all's good.
I have been having terrible trouble with the Bosch Greentops I had in my Burb. Mainly because of all the 'information' available on these particular injectors but also because I made a MAJOR change to my injection system (going from the 19lb/hr poppets to the Greentops).
I have recently gone with some 'resized' LS1 injectors and am using the tables from a stock vehicle (which uses those injectors as OEM) with an appropriately adjusted IFR table. Difference in the way the vehicle runs/performs is night and day.
If you don't mind...what are your thoughts on using this procedure?

Thanks

[Redline Motorsports]

Thanks for the information Greg.
I have your book and am looking forward to the DVD. Kinda limited over here as to taking classes from people such as yourself.
I have never been able to understand how 'Pro' tuners can just change the IFR tables when tuning for larger injectors and be happy that all's good.
I have been having terrible trouble with the Bosch Greentops I had in my Burb. Mainly because of all the 'information' available on these particular injectors but also because I made a MAJOR change to my injection system (going from the 19lb/hr poppets to the Greentops).
I have recently gone with some 'resized' LS1 injectors and am using the tables from a stock vehicle (which uses those injectors as OEM) with an appropriately adjusted IFR table. Difference in the way the vehicle runs/performs is night and day.
If you don't mind...what are your thoughts on using this procedure?

Thanks

Oh boy........this will open up the can of worms! LOL!

Greg and I have discussed this so many times. Bottom line is that even changing the orifice plates hole sizes WILL effect some of these characteristics. Like I has stated in your last thread, your improved results are not because of miracle injectors but rather your critical data is CLOSER with these injectors then you where with the 42's.

I'm sure when greg gets wind of this you'll get an ear full!

Howard

[hquick]

I'm sure when greg gets wind of this you'll get an ear full!

Howard

I hope so! Lol!

I understand there was no mirracle cure. I've been 'trying' to get the 42's to work 'correctly' (whatever that actually is...maybe I'm too difficult to please....I want it perfect!) for a couple of years.
Trying to find out basic details about the 42's was a real chore of it's own. Many people still insist they are 42lb/hr at 43.5Psi....I believe they are 42@ the Ford rated pressure of 39.15. So...even trying to get something as basic as the IFR correct is a matter of contention.
Either nobody KNOWS the data or they aren't willing to share.
I also fully understand what you posted in my previous thread about the GM guys (in white coats) being responsible for my data....and that's the reason I decided to try the resized injectors.
I hope to be able to soak up some of what Greg has to say.

[redhardsupra]

then stop buying unflowed injectors and you'll know EXACTLY what your injector flow at what pressure. problem solved, move on, nothing to see here.

[hquick]

Well...that's 'kind of' correct Marcin.
Firstly, I bought the 'greentops' from a friend before I got involved in the tuning side of owning a vehicle.
Secondly...there is so much 'mis-information' on the net about the greentops, it's difficult for some of us to decypher.
On one hand I have you telling me...they're 42lb rated at the stock GM test rating of 43.5 Psi. Then, after more research and asking alot of Ford people...I find out they're 42lb at the Ford rating of 39.15 Psi. So...I hope you can see how difficult it is for some of us to work out what's right and what's wrong.
Anyway....I no longer need to concern myself with the 'greentops'...they're gone!
I am however still interested in furthering my knowledge on the subject of 'injector tuning'. The 'greentops' saga was/is an interesting learning curve.

[Redline Motorsports]

then stop buying unflowed injectors and you'll know exactly what your injector flow at what pressure. Problem solved, move on, nothing to see here.

lol!

[hquick]

Oh...the injectors were a flow matched set...I just didn't get the data to go with them.

[mr.prick]

Well...that's 'kind of' correct Marcin.
Firstly, I bought the 'greentops' from a friend before I got involved in the tuning side of owning a vehicle.
Secondly...there is so much 'mis-information' on the net about the greentops, it's difficult for some of us to decypher.
On one hand I have you telling me...they're 42lb rated at the stock GM test rating of 43.5 Psi. Then, after more research and asking alot of Ford people...I find out they're 42lb at the Ford rating of 39.15 Psi. So...I hope you can see how difficult it is for some of us to work out what's right and what's wrong.
Anyway....I no longer need to concern myself with the 'greentops'...they're gone!
I am however still interested in furthering my knowledge on the subject of 'injector tuning'. The 'greentops' saga was/is an interesting learning curve.
When I saw that part of the article I immediately thought of the IFR spreadsheet.
It's kind of hard to input the right data in you get so much conflicting information.