any suggestion?? need help with cam

[pullincrazy88]

i cannot get my truck to idle or run right what so ever. ive tried playing with the VE tables to get it to run good enough to do an auto VE but cant seem to get it right. can anyone look at my tune and help me out in which direction to go to get it to run right. heres my tune file 5240.

here is my cam specs INTAKE EXHAUST gross valve lift .510 .510
duration @ .006 tappet lift 270 276

valve timing open closed
@ .006 INT: 2- BTDC 40 ABDC
EXH: 47 BBDC 3- ATDC

installed @ 111.0 intake center line
INTAKE EXHAUST
duration @ .050 218 224
lobe lift .3010 .3010
lobe separation 113.0

RPM band 1500-5500 and is a roller cam

the heads also have a 5 angle valve job with bowl work done and a set of 1.7 rollers rockers. mild intake side port work.

any pointers would be greatly appriciated as i am completely stumped with the tiny bit of knowledge i have so far.

[pullincrazy88]

o and i forgot my injectors are 36lbs at 4 bar.

[swingtan]

When you say "cannot get my truck to idle or run right", can you describe what is occurring at idle and what it's like when driving?

[hquick]

For starters, your IFR {B1058} is wrong.
36lb/Hr injectors at 58Psi should be 4.53600

And why is the PE set at :
18.526525
18.526525
18.526525
18.526525
18.526525
18.526525
18.379489
17.457584
17.457584
17.457584
17.457584
17.457584
17.457584
17.457584
17.457584
17.457584
17.457584

What size motor???

[pullincrazy88]

its the 7.4 liter. and i never changed PE settings just how long the delay was. as for running i cant even get the thing to run. it wont idle unless i have my foot on the gass and acts like it is missing when you rev it up. but it i take my intake silencer box off it will sit there and purr and rev up like it should. so does that mean my VE tables are set to low for the cam, or to high?

And for my injectors. my stock ones were only set at 2.8 and those bosch are still a little more then the motor needs so i toned them down. the exhaust will burn ur eyes at 2.5

[pullincrazy88]

where are you seeing that my PE is set that high? im not seeing it that high anywhere in the tune. what table

[swingtan]

PE is set in B3618 and is currently set as hquick has indicated. This is way, way to lean ( unless you are running pure hydrogen as a fuel ) and would make the car hesitate, backfire and buck or just plain stall when you put the foot down.

Do you have a wide band O2 sensor? if not, then get one and check your mixtures. The PE settings are quite alarming, as is the strange "kick" in the main spark table (B5913) at 95 kPA. Where did this tune come from?


Simon

[hquick]

By telling the PCM you have smaller than actual injectors...you will be running VERY rich.
Your injectors are a 'known' value so you should keep them at that value.
At those PE settings....if you managed to get the vehicle up to decent speed and RPM and then stomped on it..I'd be worried you'd hear the tinkle..tinkle of engine parts bouncing down the road!
Do you have a copy of the 'stock' tune.
Some more ehicle details wouldn't hurt either?

[pullincrazy88]

i believe the timing table is the orgional one from the hyper tech i used to have. as for the rest of the tune it was the one i was running with my stock motor. except for the injectors were still set at 2.5. ran the tune for months.

i have a wideband o2 sensor sitting next the the truck. havent installed it yet because i cant figure out how i am supposed to be able to log it. does it hook idrectly up to the labtop or to the pcm? the instructions that came with it say nothing except how to hook it up to a scaner brand ive never even heard of.

its an AEM wideband and has to be logged in analog with EFIlive how ever its done.

ill get the stock tune off the labtop and post it

[pullincrazy88]

heres my stock tune 5254

[hquick]

A more correct 'looking' PE table would be:

12.499731
12.499731
12.499731
12.499731
12.499731
12.499731
12.499731
11.501663
11.501663
11.501663
11.501663
11.501663
11.501663
11.501663
11.501663
11.501663
11.501663

The wideband signal should hook up directly to your EFILive interface.
I'd start by going back to that tune and just start with setting your IFR's correctly and go from there through the AutoVE process.

[swingtan]

By telling the PCM you have smaller than actual injectors...you will be running VERY rich.
Your injectors are a 'known' value so you should keep them at that value.
At those PE settings....if you managed to get the vehicle up to decent speed and RPM and then stomped on it..I'd be worried you'd hear the tinkle..tinkle of engine parts bouncing down the road!
Do you have a copy of the 'stock' tune.
Some more ehicle details wouldn't hurt either?

That would explain the PE settings. It runs rig rich normally so you'd pull heaps of fuel out to get it to run at WOT. But the rest of the tune is still set up wrong so it'll flood at everything but WOT.

So the steps to correct would be.....


Correct the IFR to match the injectors that you are actually running. This will lean out the mixtures to a "more correct" value for normal driving conditions.
Reset the commanded PE to something more sane, like 12.5:1 for starters, this can be fine tuned later.
Smooth out the main spark table to remove the step at 95kPA
Do the Auto VE process to correct the VE
Fine tune the main spark table to suit.


This all needs to be done with the WB connected. I have not used an AEM so couldn't give exact instructions on hooking it up, but if you do a forum search for something like "connect AEM" you may get lucky.

Simon.

[hquick]

Here's a stock 7.4L tune with the same Op system as yours.
Open your current tune and then open this one as a compare
This will show you the differences.
As I posted earlier....more vehicle details will make it alot easier for some of the 'smarter' guys (like Simon) to help you. Otherwise...alot of it is a stab in the dark. Some things such as those we've pointed out ring alarm bells.....but there are probably alot of others which aren't as obvious that can be made obvious via a compare with a stock tune from the same model vehicle.
Guessing it's a 98-2000 7.4L Vortec motor?

[pullincrazy88]

idk if it matters or not but that tune file is for an L19. my motor is the L29 series.

[hquick]

Don't know if it matters either. They're both 7.4L and I can't find a stock L29 tune listed in the 'Holden Crazy' tune repository.
There are a hell of alot of differences between your tune and that L19 7.4L stock tune though.

[pullincrazy88]

between my tune i first posted or my stock tune? the first tune i posted theres alot of stuff changed as it was the tune i ran with my stock motor

[hquick]

Between the two tunes you posted....there's very little difference.
Between your tune and the stock L19 tune....there's ALOT of differences.
I don't believe there should be so much differences between your stock tune and the L19 tune.

[pullincrazy88]

i just looked threw both entire tunes my STOCK tune and the L19 tune for the c3500. the only two differences i found in the entire tune was that the c3500 had a higher baseline trans pressure and the speedo cal was for a different size tire. i dont see what u mean that my stock tune (second one i posted) was way different from that one

[hquick]

Sorry...I was getting confused.
These are the differences between your modified tune and the stock L19 tune.


Comparison summary: 12:34:40 pm, Friday May 01, 2009

Calibration comparison between jake%20new%20built%20motor%20last%20tune%20mod[1].tun and 2000 Chevrolet C3500 Truck Automatic L19 7.4 Litre (PCM 16265175).tun.
*Values that differ by more than 0.100000% are considered different.


B3618 "PE Modifier Based on RPM" -3.0134 "Different from row 0 to row 16 inclusive."
B1044 "PE RPM Threshold" 1.5625 "Different from row 0 to row 4 inclusive."
B1045 "PE Throttle TPS Threshold" 10.5882 "Different from row 0 to row 10 inclusive."
B1046 "PE Throttle Hysteresis" -28.2353 "CAL: 30.1 <-> ALT: 2.0"
B1047 "PE Delay RPM Bypass" 89.8436 "CAL: 1300 <-> ALT: 12800"
B1051 "PE Delay" 19.9167 "CAL: 0.25 <-> ALT: 60.00"
B1050 "PE Delay Reduction By Throttle" 0.3000 "Different from row 0 to row 14 inclusive."
B1058 "Injector Flow Rate" 0.7858 "CAL: 2.3 <-> ALT: 2.8"
B5913 "Main Spark Advance" -4.7059 "Different from cell: 0,16 to cell: 15,18 inclusive."
B5932 "Main Spark Advance, Closed Throttle" -1.5686 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 8,18 inclusive."
B1003 "Minimum Spark Advance Traction Control Active" -3.3345 "Different from row 0 to row 5 inclusive."
B7970 "Spark Reduction Torque Loss" 99.9939 "Different from row 1 to row 16 inclusive."
B1200 "Desired Idle Speeds" -8.3333 "Different from cell: 2,8 to cell: 3,16 inclusive."
B1145 "BTM MPH In 4WD Low Activation" -100.0000 "CAL: 412 <-> ALT: 0"
B1146 "BTM MPH In 4WD Low Hysteris" -99.7604 "CAL: 411 <-> ALT: 0"
B1147 "BTM MPH In 2WD Enabler" -100.0000 "CAL: 412 <-> ALT: 0"
B1148 "BTM MPH In 2WD Low Hysteris" -99.7604 "CAL: 411 <-> ALT: 0"
B1152 "BTM Apply Rate" 100.0000 "CAL: 0.0 <-> ALT: 88794.1"
B1153 "Max Torque Value Of Engine" -4.9012 "CAL: 99.9 <-> ALT: 95.0"
B1154 "BTM Idle Limit" 25.0004 "Different from row 0 to row 14 inclusive."
B1155 "BTM No Idle Condition Max" 25.0004 "Different from row 0 to row 14 inclusive."
C6001 "Engine DTC Processing Enablers" N/A "Different from row 44 to row 44 inclusive."
C6002 "Engine DTC MIL Enablers" N/A "Different from row 10 to row 11 inclusive."
D1070 "4wd Low Torque Limit 1st Gear" -53.7667 "CAL: 2032.4 <-> ALT: 939.6"
D1074 "4wd Low Torque Limit Reverse" -44.6333 "CAL: 2032.4 <-> ALT: 1125.3"
D1019 "Abuse Vehicle Speed Threshold" 99.6109 "CAL: 0.0 <-> ALT: 410.4"
D1020 "Abuse Management TPS Upper Threshold" -94.1176 "CAL: 99.6 <-> ALT: 5.9"
D1021 "Abuse Management TPS Lower Threshold" -56.4706 "CAL: 60.2 <-> ALT: 3.9"
B1041 "Torque Management Min Temp To Enable" -99.8689 "CAL: 150.8 <-> ALT: -39.8"
D1189 "Abuse Mode Max Time In Drive" 0.1831 "CAL: 0.0 <-> ALT: 0.8"
D1190 "Abuse Mode Max Time In Reverse" 0.1221 "CAL: 0.0 <-> ALT: 0.5"
D1142 "RPM Abuse Limit Enabler" -76.2963 "CAL: 8000 <-> ALT: 1750"
D1143 "Abuse Mode Speed Enable" 21.4847 "CAL: 0 <-> ALT: 89"
D1025 "Abuse Management (in Gear) Upper RPM Threshold" -51.5633 "Different from row 0 to row 2 inclusive."
D1026 "Abuse Management (in Gear) Lower RPM Threshold" -45.3132 "Different from row 0 to row 2 inclusive."
D1092 "WOT 1->2 Shift Speeds, Normal" -1.9532 "CAL: 43.5 <-> ALT: 35.4"
D1127 "WOT 1->2 Shift RPM, Normal" -4.2726 "CAL: 5000 <-> ALT: 4650"
D1128 "WOT 2->3 Shift RPM, Normal" -1.8311 "CAL: 4800 <-> ALT: 4650"
D1129 "WOT 3->4 Shift RPM, Normal" -1.2207 "CAL: 4500 <-> ALT: 4400"
D1183 "Base Pressure 1->2 Shift" 3.1250 "Different from cell: 0,4 to cell: 0,32 inclusive."
D1184 "Base Pressure 2->3 Shift" 3.1250 "Different from cell: 0,4 to cell: 0,32 inclusive."
D1136 "High Pressure Adjust 1-2 Shift" -3.3473 "Different from row 0 to row 16 inclusive."
D1137 "High Pressure Adjust 2-3 Shift" -3.3473 "Different from row 0 to row 16 inclusive."
D1159 "TCC Apply Speeds - Second Gear" 88.2811 "Different from cell: 0,13 to cell: 0,16 inclusive."
D1160 "TCC Apply Speeds - Third Gear" 14.8440 "Different from cell: 0,14 to cell: 0,16 inclusive."
D1161 "TCC Apply Speeds - Fourth Gear" 8.9845 "Different from cell: 0,15 to cell: 0,16 inclusive."
D1162 "TCC Release Speeds - Second Gear" 12.1096 "Different from cell: 0,13 to cell: 0,16 inclusive."
D1163 "TCC Release Speeds - Third Gear" 8.2033 "Different from cell: 0,14 to cell: 0,16 inclusive."
D1164 "TCC Release Speeds - Fourth Gear" 9.3751 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 1,16 inclusive."
D1191 "Torque Reduction 1->2 Shift" 13.9988 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 1,16 inclusive."
D1192 "Torque Reduction 2->3 Shift" -14.9998 "Different from cell: 0,0 to cell: 1,16 inclusive."
D1193 "Torque Reduction 3->4 Shift" -29.9997 "Different from cell: 1,0 to cell: 1,16 inclusive."
D1197 "Torque Reduction 2->1 Shift" -10.0009 "Different from row 0 to row 16 inclusive."
D1198 "Torque Reduction 3->2 Shift" -10.0009 "Different from row 0 to row 16 inclusive."
D1199 "Torque Reduction 4->3 Shift" -14.9998 "Different from row 0 to row 16 inclusive."
D1144 "Abuse Mode Torque Reduction" 54.9994 "Different from row 3 to row 16 inclusive."
B1007 "Aux Fan Coolant Disable Temp" 8.2569 "CAL: 86.3 <-> ALT: 102.0"
B1008 "Aux Fan Coolant Enable Temp" 7.4705 "CAL: 93.0 <-> ALT: 107.3"
B1010 "Aux Fan Min. Run Time" -2.4414 "CAL: 50 <-> ALT: 30"
B1011 "Aux Fan Off Speed" -7.8126 "CAL: 113 <-> ALT: 80"
B1012 "Aux Fan Off Shutdown Coolant Degrees enable" 2.7523 "CAL: 102.0 <-> ALT: 107.3"
B1013 " Aux Fan On Speed" -9.7658 "CAL: 105 <-> ALT: 64"
B1014 "Aux Fan On Shutdown Coolant" 7.0773 "CAL: 107.3 <-> ALT: 120.8"
B7202 "A/C Disable TPS" 9.8039 "CAL: 87.11 <-> ALT: 96.87"
B7203 "A/C Enable TPS" 2.3529 "CAL: 82.81 <-> ALT: 85.16"
H0101 "Speedometer Correction" 8.8486 "CAL: 62564.3 <-> ALT: 72353.3"
H1050 "ABS Tire Correction" 0.6882 "CAL: 23170.3 <-> ALT: 24265.0"
H1052 "Maximum Vehicle Speed" -12.5002 "CAL: 209 <-> ALT: 158"
H1053 "Speed Limiter Disable" -13.6721 "CAL: 208 <-> ALT: 151"

[hquick]

Between YOUR stock tune and the L19 stock tune....there are very few differences.

Comparison summary: 12:39:29 pm, Friday May 01, 2009

Calibration comparison between jake%20stock%202000%207.4[1].tun and 2000 Chevrolet C3500 Truck Automatic L19 7.4 Litre (PCM 16265175).tun.
*Values that differ by more than 0.100000% are considered different.


D1183 "Base Pressure 1->2 Shift" 3.1250 "Different from cell: 0,4 to cell: 0,32 inclusive."
D1184 "Base Pressure 2->3 Shift" 3.1250 "Different from cell: 0,4 to cell: 0,32 inclusive."
H0101 "Speedometer Correction" 2.9488 "CAL: 69091.1 <-> ALT: 72353.3"
H1050 "ABS Tire Correction" 0.6882 "CAL: 23170.3 <-> ALT: 24265.0"

[GAMEOVER]

This has a Vortec Black Box controller right?
Have you tried your stock tune?

[hquick]

Yeah...that's what we're getting at.
Try the stock tune with correct IFR's for the 36/b injectors and go from there.

[pullincrazy88]

i will try it. but if it does work idk why it would because my VE tables and MAF cals. are exactly the same. i wouldnt think that my timing would creat a problem as it isnt rased that much. but then again you all know more then i do.

[pullincrazy88]

i just thought two my MAF sensor is what im having problems with. i believe, can i delete it on my black box and run a MAFless tune?

[GAMEOVER]

Yes, you can make it fail. Just take care of your DTC mill light though...

[pullincrazy88]

ok i got her to run with the intake sealed. part of it was my injector settings. but i cant get to a welder to weld my bung in for the wide band so im gona have to do the smell test to drive it to the shop. which way do you adj. the injector flow rate to go leaner. smaller correct?

[hquick]

You can pull your NBO2 out, install the WBO2 in its place and run open loop (for the momoent anyway, so you can do the AutoVE process).
Just tie the NBO2 up out of the way.
If you want to leave the WBO2 in permanently, then get the bung.
I believe smaller numbers in the IFR will make it run richer.

[pullincrazy88]

with my PE table how are you guys looking at that. im only seeing it in Lambada and the cal number are different. i dont want to over correct the problem.

[GAMEOVER]

Open up the Tune Tool, click on Edit and then click on Properties. Change the command fuel values display to AFR. Default value is EQ ratio.