Settings for Siemens Deka (Mototron) 60 lb/hr

[Wasted Income]

Ok guys...I've searched, but it's hard to find the answer I'm looking for....

My setup
2000 5.3L, COS5, return style fuel system, stock manifold referenced fuel pressure regulator.

What tables do I need to change, and what are the values that must go in them for these injectors to idle correctly?

Could somebody post their 5.3L tune (or any tune??) that idles well with a stock cam and 60s??

Thanks in advance!
Jeff

[Highlander]

if you have a return style fuel system.. set them all to 72.6# on the IFR table.

[Wasted Income]

I don't think my fuel pressure is the same as what the mototrons are rated at....I have heard 72.3 or something along those lines.

So with a return style system, the IFR table is flat? It doesn't taper at all like the spreadsheet I've seen?

Thanks guys....

It seems that tuning info on the 60 lb/hr injectors is :secret: lol

[joecar]

With a return style MAP-referenced FPR (typically located at the fuel rails), the IFR table is flat all across, its value being the value computed by the spreadsheet for vac=0.

The purpose of the MAP-referenced FPR is to maintain a constant pressure difference across each injector.

Absolute pressure on fuel rail side of injector = FP + BARO + MAP
Absolute pressure on manifold side of injector = MAP
Difference = FP + BARO


A pressure gauge on the fuel rail will show gauge pressure to be FP + MAP...
(since absolute pressure = gauge pressure + BARO)

When measuring rail pressure FP:
- first disconnect the MAP hose (this will cause MAP to equal BARO),
- read the pressure gauge... it will show pressure P (equal to FP + BARO)... P would typically be ~58 psi for GM.
- reconnect hose;

Use the value P in the spreadsheet.

[Wasted Income]

Thanks a TON, Joecar!!

Now what about the other stuff like offset and pulse width and all that?? If you could even point me in the right direction, that would be awesome!

[joecar]

...
Now what about the other stuff like offset and pulse width and all that?? If you could even point me in the right direction, that would be awesome!Those are hard to derive... I don't know how to do that yet...

[5.7ute]

Good luck finding any solid info on these or any other injectors. I searched for weeks with no real results hence why I am researching injector characteristics a fair bit lately.
Jon@FIC sent me some data sheets which will give you some solid basics to start working from. If you PM me your email addy I will send them through to you.
If your tune is spot on with the standard injectors I also have a few ideas on how you can calculate voltage offsets. They havent been tested yet though. Check out my last posts here http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=10179&page=5&highlight=injector+offsets

[limited cv8r]

Here is a little bit of info I've collected. Hope it helps

[hquick]

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17962

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?p=128852#post128852

[ryans1000]

5.7ute , do you or anybody have more info on these 60lb siemens. I understand how to do the IFR table but not the other tables like b3701, b4003, b4004, b4005, b4006. Seems like these injectors are very common so I'm surprised I couldn't find more info on my searches.

Some of the threads went over my head. I was hoping I didn't have to do 10 hours of reading followed by hours of logging. I get kind of confused reading the hptuners threads above because the vocabulary and tables look a bit different.

My car has a boost referenced regulator and a fuel return line. 2002 ls1 turbo. I'm running the injectors at 43.5 base right now. Car runs well enough to drive but but idle is sometimes rich, sometimes lean under the same conditions.

[5.7ute]

Unfortunately I never got to finish the work I was doing on these injectors. The theories I had I believe are sound, but still need absolute values for IFR to work back from. Otherwise you are just masking one error with another.
I will have a look & see if I still have the tune I was working on with these injectors, but I believe it was scrapped when I had the RR issues last month.(I havent had that engine in my car for a while now)
How does your commanded IBPW compare with the similar conditions with different AFR's? Have you made any of the pids I talk about in the other threads?
The trick is to understand how much air the PCM is seeing (using the calc.ipw pid) & how much of the IBPW is being made up off the adders, small pulse adjust etc.

[joecar]

Ryan, your B4001 IFR table is flat (same value in all cells), right...?

[ryans1000]

Ryan, your B4001 IFR table is flat (same value in all cells), right...?

yes that is correct joecar b4001 is flat. Does my table b3701 Injector pulse with voltage need to have the same values in each row (copy the 0 kpa row) since I have a vacuum referenced fpr?


5.7ute, I need to do some more logging and get back to you.

Any rough idea of what values I should put in until I figure out more details? Or do you guys know of another guy I can PM whose running a similar setup?

My VE table was pretty good before with stock injectors, I don't want to touch the ve table again until my injector values are close.

[5.7ute]

Ryan, I have had a look on my laptop etc & do not have those settings anymore. The only place left to look is on the old PCM but I will not be able to do that for a few days.
Send your tunefile to my email address aatsasp@ozemail.com.au & I will send through the siemens data sheets I went off. I should also have a calc pids text file to send you to save some time.
Since your VE table was good beforehand it shouldnt be too hard, it will just take a fair bit of logging.

[ryans1000]

I bought a used Greg Banish cd that has some 60lb mototron info in there like IFR, minimum pulsewidth, small pulse threshhold, small pulse adjust table, pulsewidth table. Is this all the info I need, just plug it in and go or what else would need to be done?

Also do you know does my table b3701 Injector pulse width voltage need to have the same values in each row (copy the 0 kpa row) since I have a vacuum referenced fpr?

[5.7ute]

Yes. The pressure delta across your injector wont vary so you will be fine. Voltage will be the only variable you need worry about. FWIW the pressure variables are that small they are pretty insignificant anyway.

[ryans1000]

I installed my 60lb injectors and updated my tables according to the Greg Banish cd (IFR, minimum pulsewidth, small pulse threshhold, small pulse adjust table, pulsewidth table) I was surprised to find that I am now running 10-20% lean in most load conditions from 30kpa on up. This is open loop, speed density. I had previously had my VE table dialed in good and my previous injectors were just stock and so was I had stock injector tables except for the IFR I flattened out because I have a boost referenced regulator.

I am confused as to how this could be, I thought most areas would be within a few % afr. My VE table must be wrong as I don't see how the new injectors could be 10%-20% off of their factory settings though I did not buy flow matched ones I was told they are usually within 2-3% from the manufacturer.

My FPR is boost referenced and is before the fuel rail, stock fuel rails. I set it 58psi at zero vacuum. Setup hasn't changed from when I had stock injectors.

What do you guys think?