Auto Tune with Custom OS and no MAF???

[BowlingSS]

I went many days tuning using the AutoTune Doc and Mr. Ben. All the tuning using Ben was 4000 and below. Now I have OS 3 installed and have PE disabled. I still monitor BEN but wanted to know how everyone is tuning 4000 and above. Are you using the AFR/RPM table in the custom OS? I have not changed mine yet from first setting it up at 14.63 up to 90kpa and 13.00 at 95-100. What kind of AFR is everyone running from 0-90 and from 95-100?

For the last month I have been getting more KR than before. It could be because of the gas problems. I am not sure. I always run 93. I guess this is another subject but I was wondering if the two have anything in common.

Everyone have a good weekend.
Cheers.
Bill
:D

[BowlingSS]

Anyone.

Bill

[GMPX]

Hi Bill,

Just a note, you are better off not having your AFR's set to 12.95 below 800 RPM, reason being, is if the engine ever stalls, MAP will go to 90 - 100kPa and the PCM will throw a bunch of fuel in (not so good).
As for the KR, is it happening at one spot only?, what are the actual AFR's at that point and timing?

12.95:1 AFR is about as high as I would go, I run my car at 12:3:1AFR, it's not on the edge and allows a bit of safety in hotter weather. Many would dispute that I am losing power by doing this, possibly, but I am not at the strip everyday, so if I am losing 10 - 15Hp by running a touch richer on the street I am not worried.
I found (on a dyno) the power difference between 25deg timing and 28 was very small, which tells me the motor does not want more than 25 anyway, so that is what I am running.
So in summary, my street tune I run mid 12 AFR's with about 25 timing.

As for the bad gas problem.......this might help.
http://www.flat-d.com/

Cheers,
Ross

BTW, your post only showed up on my PC this morning :?

[MN C5]

Looks like you need to have a professional fit you for that :lol: :lol:

[joecar]

Ha ha... emissions control... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[caver]

Above 4k I use a loading dyno.

Normally aspirated I run my AFR at 13.2 makes best power there and its rich enough to be safe. Of course you have to be make sure that commanded and actual are spot on.

Forced induction I run at 11.6 and change the iat enrichment table to add fuel above 65 degC.

U should find that the knock normally occurs at the same places. Especially below 2k.
I use a KR map to subtract timing at those points. I advance the whole high octane table taking away some timing at the trouble spots.I also made a spark scaler map so I can monitor how much of the high octane table it's using.

[BowlingSS]

Above 4k I use a loading dyno.

Normally aspirated I run my AFR at 13.2 makes best power there and its rich enough to be safe. Of course you have to be make sure that commanded and actual are spot on.

Forced induction I run at 11.6 and change the iat enrichment table to add fuel above 65 degC.

U should find that the knock normally occurs at the same places. Especially below 2k.
I use a KR map to subtract timing at those points. I advance the whole high octane table taking away some timing at the trouble spots.I also made a spark scaler map so I can monitor how much of the high octane table it's using.

Do you run the the AFR Table at 13.2 just at 90 -100 kpa? What do you have your table set to in the other cells? I am running 14.63 everywhere except at 90-100kpa. I just want to make sure I have setup this table right.

My timing has been reduced a number of times to help with the KR. I was not getting this KR a month ago. Most of it started after going to the Custom OS. I am not getting that much. I also changed gas stations a few weeks ago because my regular station keeps running out of the good stuff. I think the gas is not as good.

Bill

[BowlingSS]

Hi Bill,

Just a note, you are better off not having your AFR's set to 12.95 below 800 RPM, reason being, is if the engine ever stalls, MAP will go to 90 - 100kPa and the PCM will throw a bunch of fuel in (not so good).
As for the KR, is it happening at one spot only?, what are the actual AFR's at that point and timing?

12.95:1 AFR is about as high as I would go, I run my car at 12:3:1AFR, it's not on the edge and allows a bit of safety in hotter weather. Many would dispute that I am losing power by doing this, possibly, but I am not at the strip everyday, so if I am losing 10 - 15Hp by running a touch richer on the street I am not worried.
I found (on a dyno) the power difference between 25deg timing and 28 was very small, which tells me the motor does not want more than 25 anyway, so that is what I am running.
So in summary, my street tune I run mid 12 AFR's with about 25 timing.

As for the bad gas problem.......this might help.
http://www.flat-d.com/

Cheers,
Ross

BTW, your post only showed up on my PC this morning :?

I like the bad gas link. :lol:

Do you run the whole table at 12.3 or just the higher end of it?
I am also running in the low to mid 20's for timing.
Thanks.
Bill

[caver]

I run 14.63 up to 70kpa untill 4k then I only run it up to about 55kpa.

I blend it from 14.63 at 70kpa to 13.2 at 85kpa. Thats WOT for me at 5000ft.

Seems to work nice. Run it at 13.9 to 14.2 under 1600 rpm cause of the cam
Car has Fast manifold 94mm Starr TB bigger valves BIG cam short headers and dual 3" exhaust.

Makes 370hp wheels, corrected on my dyno dyno calc's it to 500hp engine.

[GMPX]

Bill,

Ben from EFI-101 gave me some interesting advice on AFR's one day, I don't want to steal he's thunder, but running leaner AFR's down low can have negative results, mind you, it can also make power on some engines, so whatever you find works for you is probably best.

I do run 12.48:1 commanded for the most part, however, because of table interpolation it's not like P.E with a fixed value, look at my table from 95 - 100kPa and that pretty much commands 12.48 at 98 - 100kPa where the engine runs at WOT. upto 90kPa it is 14.63 everywhere.
I have run 28 - 29 degrees of timing on a dyno but it made no more power than 25, so I left it a 25. Though, with some cold nights here lately we bumped that back up to 28 :)
Also, because of fuel prices I have stopped using Premium (98 Oct) and have dropped back to 95 Octane.

BTW, I just noticed looking at a log I did tonight my BEN factor average from 4800 - 5500 is 1.0057 :D

You might also be interested in this link -
http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=808

Cheers,
Ross

[GMPX]

I blend it from 14.63 at 70kpa to 13.2 at 85kpa. Thats WOT for me at 5000ft.

:shock: Here's me worrying when I see 96 - 97kPa on the scanner.

Bet the view is nice up there though :)

Cheers,
Ross

[caver]

What view I have to drive at least 300km in any direction to lose altitude.
Se level is 600km away. Its not called the highveld for nothing.

[BowlingSS]

Bill,

Ben from EFI-101 gave me some interesting advice on AFR's one day, I don't want to steal he's thunder, but running leaner AFR's down low can have negative results, mind you, it can also make power on some engines, so whatever you find works for you is probably best.

I do run 12.48:1 commanded for the most part, however, because of table interpolation it's not like P.E with a fixed value, look at my table from 95 - 100kPa and that pretty much commands 12.48 at 98 - 100kPa where the engine runs at WOT. upto 90kPa it is 14.63 everywhere.
I have run 28 - 29 degrees of timing on a dyno but it made no more power than 25, so I left it a 25. Though, with some cold nights here lately we bumped that back up to 28 :)
Also, because of fuel prices I have stopped using Premium (98 Oct) and have dropped back to 95 Octane.

BTW, I just noticed looking at a log I did tonight my BEN factor average from 4800 - 5500 is 1.0057 :D

You might also be interested in this link -
http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=808

Cheers,
Ross

I wished I could get 95 Oct. The highest we have around here is 93 Oct and lately 93 is hard to find. So far I have not had to use any gas less than 93.
Thanks.
Bill

[dfe1]

Keep in mind that the pump octane ratings in the US are an average of research and motor octanes. As a result one brand of 93 may not be as knock resistant as another. We've done quite a bit of dyno testing and found that engines are much less likely to knock with Chevron 93 premium. On several occasions, knock was completely eliminated by nothing more than switching to Chevron. If you haven't yet, try a tankful.

[EFIGUY]

Bill,
Ben from EFI-101 gave me some interesting advice on AFR's one day....


First of all, you gotta watch whatever that guy tells ya! LoL :wink:

Have you ever tested my theories? I have recently found some interesting reports from the NACA group to fully support my findings...the best part? The reports were done in 1922! Ha Ha



I have run 28 - 29 degrees of timing on a dyno but it made no more power than 25, so I left it a 25. Though, with some cold nights here lately we bumped that back up to 28 :)
Cheers,
Ross

Just out of curiosity, did you test that on the dyno and come up with that idea? Its just that theoretically, the colder air would be more dense and therefore require LESS timing.......
Just a thought.

-Ben

[GMPX]

Bill,
Ben from EFI-101 gave me some interesting advice on AFR's one day....


First of all, you gotta watch whatever that guy tells ya! LoL :wink:

Have you ever tested my theories? I have recently found some interesting reports from the NACA group to fully support my findings...the best part? The reports were done in 1922! Ha Ha



I have run 28 - 29 degrees of timing on a dyno but it made no more power than 25, so I left it a 25. Though, with some cold nights here lately we bumped that back up to 28 :)
Cheers,
Ross

Just out of curiosity, did you test that on the dyno and come up with that idea? Its just that theoretically, the colder air would be more dense and therefore require LESS timing.......
Just a thought.

-Ben

Ben,

For majority of my day I sit in a nice quiet room (as yet, not padded) tapping away at a keyboard looking at code that makes an LS1 tick....so I am no authority on what works and what does not work in the tuning world, that is why when I talk to people that tune engines for a living I listen and try to learn from what they find.

I am afraid my theory on the extra timing comes from 'tuners' saying that is the sort of timing an LS1 with a mild cam makes best power. Again, I personally have no proof to dispute that.
I did not witness that on the dyno with my car, but then after 7 or 8 runs perhaps the engine could not cope with 28 degrees (it was starting to show slight knock). My test was to run 28 degrees on the street where for the most part you are getting fresh/dense air and the intake is not suffering heat soak, it did not log any knock with that timing, but the seat of the pants dyno isn't real accurate, so was there any gain??, not sure, still left two black strips down the road though :)

Cheers,
Ross

[Dirk Diggler]

I have seen with my own two eyes the leaner i run the car the more power/mph it seems to run. Previously on a richer mixture i only picked up 25-26 mph from the 1/8 to the 1/4 leaner the car out a tad and it went from 25-26 to a solid 27 mph between the 1/8 asnd the 1/4 with 28* of timing and no knock whatsoever