Has anyone figured out LC1 NB simulation?

[SSpdDmon]

I've messed with this thing all morning and it's starting to piss me off. :x I get a mV reading through the PCM, but it doesn't move away from .445~.455mV. Meanwhile, the real NBO2 is reading correctly. I've tried adjusting the LC1 settings w/ high impedence, w/out high impedence, .550mv=14.3 & .350mv=15.1, etc. I can't get it to read anything but .450ish. Is it possibly wired wrong? I've got the analog gound connected to A, analog 1 connected to B, heater ground connected to C, and 12v heater power connected to D. Am I missing something??

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/392000-392999/392531_120_full.jpg

[Ira]

Assuming you're trying to get the FlashScan reading the AFR and the LC1 supplying narrow band simulation, my reading the LC-1 manual leads me to believe that the wires should be hooked up as follows.

LC1 CAR FlashScan

RED Pin D
Blue Pin C
Yellow Pin B
Brown Pin C or Pin E
Green Pin A Pin D
White ECM Ground

I'm assuming a modern LC1, the car is the 4 pin O2 sensor plug and the Flashscan is the 3 pin orange connector.

It's also important to install and check the calibration of the LC1 outputs. I've read their manual a couple of times and I'd guess that they way I've shown it will work first try, but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm slightly off. Just make sure that Analog 1 looks like a narrowband out and Analog 2 looks like a wideband output.

Ira

[Ira]

OK, second read of your message after my answer makes me wonder what you did with the white wire from the LC1? Make sure it's connected to a ground close to an ECM ground.

Ira

[SSpdDmon]

Both the analog ground (green) and system ground (white) are connected to the middle pin (D) on the Flashscan connector. I was informed by someone on here that the middle pin is connected to the ground under the dash. So, I just connected everything there to maintain 1 common ground.

[Ira]

Well, I'd connect the white wire to a real ground like it says, not to the signal ground. I don't expect much, but I'd start with that. Next I'd connect the serial cable from the LC1 to your laptop and see if Logworks claims it's working.

Ira

[SSpdDmon]

Well, that's the other problem. I can't get Logworks to see my LC1. I can get EFILive to read the WB analog 2 output. But, no luck with Logworks. :?

[Blacky]

I thought I had a problem where, the PC could not "see" my LC-1. Turns out I needed to leave the LC-1 powered up and connected via the serial connector to the PC, with the LC-1 software running (and attempting to connect or search for or whatever it says) for the LC-1 for about 30 seconds before it "found" it.

I have not tried the NB simulation yet, but when I ge my car back in a day or two I will be setting up that exact scenario - so I'll post up my results.

Note: you can hook the LC-1 NB output up to FlashScan's other AD input and log it via FlashScan just to see if the voltage matched the PCM's factory NB voltage. That would be my first step.
Remember EFIlive's A/D inputs are just digital multimeters with a "logging" option :)

Regards
Paul

[Ira]

Well, that would seem to suggest a problem with the LC1. Have you tried hooking up the LED as recommended in the Manual. Also for kicks, try changing the Yellow and Brown wires and see if the FlashScan still reads correctly, if so then both analog outputs are programmed for WB out and you've found your problem.

Ira

[87gmc]

i never could get my nb simul to work for me so please bpost as soon someone gets it going

[ringram]

Ok time to resurect this thread.

I thought my NB sim wasnt working but it turns out the LC-1 default is fully off at 15:1 and fully on at 14:1 whereas the stock ones vary by quite a bit more, like I think 12:1 to 16:1 resolution. This means that the LC-1 doesnt track OEM NB very well.

Has anyone messed with the calibration to set this up right? Im going to do some research today, but was hoping someone has done it.

I need this to work so I can run semi closed loop with custom OS3 while Ross helps me investigate some intermittent issues Im having with commanded AFR not working properly.

[ringram]

Here is my semi closed loop results.
bank1 and bank2 differ by about 5% with bank2 always +ve (lc-1 NB & WB) and bank1 always -ve.

Is this bad? Should I go back to open loop? Or is that within "normal" range?

Power seems much the same I cant really notice any difference. Im just concerned about the difference in fueling from LC-1 to O2-NB and want to get it as best as possible so any comments appreciated.

[mistermike]

I'm going to try NB sim when the weather breaks. Right now, I'm running a tad rich in closed loop, and manipulating O2 switchpoints in the tune really isn't the getting me where I want to be. Reprogramming the NB outputs on the LC-1 opens up a world of possibilities.

[ringram]

Ok, it turns out that at idle my stft's suck.

When driving along, the difference is only 2% or so, probably within spec.
Bank2 the LC1 is 2% richer FWIW.

[Ira]

Part of the issue you're seeing with the NB simulation mode is the LC-1 has only 2 or 3 points on the curve so it can't simulate the actual curve of a NB sensor. We've always lived under the impression that the ECM is only looking for the value to be above or below .5V but it's possible that someone at GM actually plotted the curve of a NB sensor and they use it for more than that. If they only care about it's being above or below .5V than the proper answer is probably to set the curve to be off at 14.75 and on at 14.65 which should most accurately simulate the curve at the point the ECM cares about.

Ira

[Extinct]

I got mine working very well.

Couple of things I learned along the way.

1. The signal ground on the wiring from the PCM to the 02 sensor (they call it H02 low on the factory diagram) needs to be grounded to the car chassis and to the Innovate signal ground as well as the Live ext input ground. On the factory 02's, that wire is connected to the 02 body, which gets grounded when it is screwed into the exhaust pipe.

2. The innovate unit responds much faster than the factory 02, I had to turn mine down to the 1/6 setting to get it to respond similar to the factory unit in the other bank. On instantaneous it would respond so fast that the PCM couldn't even see it switch, it would go from high to low and back to high again before the PCM could read it, so it only saw high all the time. 1/6 was just right ;-)

Let me know if you have other specifics, mine is working great !

[ringram]

Yep my gounds were sorted a while ago.
I was running at 1/6 speed, but when I reset to default that might also have been reset.. Ill check.

Thanks for the info.

Ive been running in semi closed loop for a few weeks now and its running fine. Nice 95mph runs on european motorways.

[smslyguy]

I got mine working very well.

Couple of things I learned along the way.

1. The signal ground on the wiring from the PCM to the 02 sensor (they call it H02 low on the factory diagram) needs to be grounded to the car chassis and to the Innovate signal ground as well as the Live ext input ground. On the factory 02's, that wire is connected to the 02 body, which gets grounded when it is screwed into the exhaust pipe.

2. The innovate unit responds much faster than the factory 02, I had to turn mine down to the 1/6 setting to get it to respond similar to the factory unit in the other bank. On instantaneous it would respond so fast that the PCM couldn't even see it switch, it would go from high to low and back to high again before the PCM could read it, so it only saw high all the time. 1/6 was just right ;-)

Let me know if you have other specifics, mine is working great !

are you meaning the signal ground onthe innovate or the system ground? or is this the same thing?