BBL Logging and PID Selections

[kwhiteside]

I've got a PID selection and Dashboard all setup to work with a BBL session.

However, after grabbing the .efi file and loading it is a real pain to get my stuff working with it.

I start 7.5 and click PID tab and open my PID file, then click Dashboard and open my dashboard file. All looks good here. Then I open the new .EFI file and it changes both my dashboard and my pid selection so everything is lined thru but one chart item. I have to press Ctrl-N and repeat 2 or 3 more times till it finally loads with the PID and Dashboard I built for it.

Somebody posted earlier that the program would try to match the best pid list with the .efi file automatically. If it is indeed trying to do that, it doesn't do it very well as it picks one that only has a couple items selected.

Is this a naming thing? Any input appreciated.

Ken . . .

[Blacky]

Usually, the preferred dashboard name is stored in the *.efi file. That is the dashboard that is loaded when you open the *.efi file.

When a file is created via BBL there is no preferred dashboard stored in the log file. In that case, no dashboard gets gets loaded and the currently loaded dashboard is used.

Once you get the dashboard that you want to display the *.efi file, re-save the *.efi file and the dashboard name will be saved with it.

See also Properties->Startup->Load defaults for selecting which dashboard you want to be displayed when the Scan Tool software is started.

Handy hint:
If you roll the mouse from a position outside the dashboard disaply to a position inside the dashboard display, the names of the current dashpage *.vdp (and dashboard *.vdb) are displayed in the status bar at the bottom of the screen. That helps you to figure out which dashpage/dashboard is currently displayed.

Regards
Paul

[kwhiteside]

Usually, the preferred dashboard name is stored in the *.efi file. That is the dashboard that is loaded when you open the *.efi file.

When a file is created via BBL there is no preferred dashboard stored in the log file. In that case, no dashboard gets gets loaded and the currently loaded dashboard is used.

Once you get the dashboard that you want to display the *.efi file, re-save the *.efi file and the dashboard name will be saved with it.

See also Properties->Startup->Load defaults for selecting which dashboard you want to be displayed when the Scan Tool software is started.

Handy hint:
If you roll the mouse from a position outside the dashboard disaply to a position inside the dashboard display, the names of the current dashpage *.vdp (and dashboard *.vdb) are displayed in the status bar at the bottom of the screen. That helps you to figure out which dashpage/dashboard is currently displayed.

Regards
Paul


I've set my defaults to always open my BBL pid file and my BBL dashboard. The Dashboard piece is working, but I can see the PID file go away as it opens. I see for a flash all of my selected PIDS, then they go away and I end up with only one or two selected, the PID File is blank, and most of my dashboard items are lined through. Now, I could reselect everything just right and save the EFI file and that would probably preserve that file as you indicate (haveen't tried it), but as soon as I do another BBL run and bring it in, there goes my PID list again.

[Blacky]

Whenever you load *any* log file the PID list is cleared and the selected PIDs are replaced with the PIDs from the log file.
If your log file only has a couple of PIDs in it then that's all that will be selected/displayed.

After you open the log file, look on the F9 tab page and that will show you the list of PIDs that were logged in the file.

Regards
Paul

[kwhiteside]

Ok, F9 tab only shows 3 PID's right now. That is totally bogus. I've got at least 12. I scrolled thru them on the flashscan as they logged, and I actually had all 12 of them displayed properly on my BBL dashboard earlier. I tried resetting to default dashboard and now nothing seems to work. Seems like its currupt again.

I don't know if I can trust the program to tune my car. Logging and scanning is very inconsistent. I'm going to try calling a support person tomorrow. I've wasted so many hours just doinking around with logging. Just when I think I get it working, it flakes out. I actually had the gearbox ratio calc pid logging along with the others at one point.

I cranked up my desktop setup which I don't want to use, copied the same .efi file onto desktop, loaded it in 7.5, dashboard works fine, F9 tab shows 30 PID's. My notebook only shows 3 PID's for the same file. Flaky!

I then copied the .efi file from flashscan back into my desktop and loaded it up. This time the F9 tab shows 4 PID's instead of 3.

Did a reboot and repeated the process. This time I got 9 PID's, but the log file wont play right even with most of the PID's I need.

[joecar]

Can you post that log file here.

[kwhiteside]

see if this works. Sorry the .efi is so big. it was from a commute home.

[joecar]

I can see 20 channels worth of pids...

I took one of my dash pages and added charts for each of your pids.

[Blacky]

I cranked up my desktop setup which I don't want to use, copied the same .efi file onto desktop, loaded it in 7.5, dashboard works fine, F9 tab shows 30 PID's. My notebook only shows 3 PID's for the same file. Flaky!

So it works on the desktop but not on the notebook. That gives a clue as to where the problem might be. Maybe there is a fault with your laptop or a the EFILive software installation has been corrupted or damaged in some way on your laptop. Maybe its a different windows version, maybe a different hardware specification (CPU speed memory available, etc) is causing you to see a different result on your laptop.

I know its a long shot, but without any additional info, try re-installing the latest software (V7.5.5 build 87) on your laptop.

Failing that, try deleting all the V7.5 registry settings on your laptop so that it reverts back to factory defaults. To do that, exit all EFILive software, run* the regedit program and delete the key: \\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\EFILive\V7.5

*
On XP:
Select Start->Run and type in regedit and press ok.

On Vista:
Type regedit in the search box on the start menu and then click on the regedit executable that apears int he start menu.

Regards
Paul

[kwhiteside]

Uninstalled like you said, didn't work.

Uninstalled again and deleted every occurance of efilive v7.5xxx in registry (this worked before for me) then installed into a new directory (also blasted both program files and documents directories for efilive v.75. (Vista ultimate btw)

So now I have a very fresh install. I'm sure my .efi file wont work, because even your sample files dont work. Camaro, Monaro, Starr don't load right. PID's lined thru and when you play it, it doesnt chart properly.

I've also looked on my box, registration card, and your website for a support phone and can't seem to find one :(

I'm thinking that getting the shipped samples to work would be the best place to start as it is your known environment. Whey they work, I'm sure mine will work.

[joecar]

If the chart shows lines thru pids, then those pids are not present in the log...

i.e. the charts have the wrong pids... change the pids on the charts (in each corner of each subchart rightclick and select pid from available pids);

the shipped samples all worked for me (I installed on a brand new MacBook (WinXP booted with Boot Camp);

support is thru the forum site;


goto the Data tab, do your logged pids show up, and do they have values...?

[joecar]

What OS are you using on your laptop...?

[kwhiteside]

Laptop is Vista Ultimate

Ok, lets take you sample file HoldenSs 0 to 100. when I do data tab only get 3 PID's CylAir and the two injectors, now I'm pretty sure that file is going to have Absolute Throttle and RPM, maybe VSS speed too, but none of them show up. This is the root of the problem. I load a file, and it randomly tells me the PIDS aren't available. I'll Post a couple screen shots for you

[kwhiteside]

So Fresh install after wiping directories and registry clean. Haven't touched any defaults. Simply started loading the samples to see if they would resolve.

See screens

[joecar]

I notified Paul, he will respond soon (allow for time zone difference).

[Blacky]

So Fresh install after wiping directories and registry clean. Haven't touched any defaults. Simply started loading the samples to see if they would resolve.

See screens

That screen display shows that the software and/or the log files are corrupt. Either the installation has failed (badly), or the file you downloaded from our web site has been corrupted.

Please try downloading the latest software (updated last night) and re-installing.
And/or I can mail you a CD with the latest software on it, send me your mailing address if you want the CD.

Regards
Paul

[kwhiteside]

sounds like a plan, I'll let you know a bit later if it works

[kwhiteside]

The upgrade seems to have magically fixed things up :)

[Blacky]

The upgrade seems to have magically fixed things up :)

Glad its sorted, I think something was wrong with the installation files you were using to install EFILive eralier.

Regards
Paul

[kwhiteside]

I can't believe it. It worked so well for two days. Opened up the same log file I've been looking at for two days tonight, and everything is missing. No TP, VSS, RPM, AFR, all gone!

Only thing I did was play with Calc_pids.txt earlier and add a couple of those pids into my dash. I made a copy of calc_pids before I tweaked it and have reset it back, but it makes no difference.

Any ideas?

[Blacky]

Do you get those same vertical white lines in the log files?

Paul

[joecar]

I can't believe it. It worked so well for two days. Opened up the same log file I've been looking at for two days tonight, and everything is missing. No TP, VSS, RPM, AFR, all gone!

Only thing I did was play with Calc_pids.txt earlier and add a couple of those pids into my dash. I made a copy of calc_pids before I tweaked it and have reset it back, but it makes no difference.

Any ideas?Post log file and screenshots.

[kwhiteside]

Yes, when I open the sample 0 to 100mph file, I get the verticle lines.


Do you get those same vertical white lines in the log files?

Paul

[kwhiteside]

In the morning, I'm burned out tonight. Thanks for continuing to work with me.

I did notice something strange. I created my own ken dashboard, opened my log file with that. Had it working very well. Deliberately saved the log file because somebody said it would then remember to use the ken dashboard and ken pid's. It still grabs the default stuff, even if I preload my ken stuff first, of reloads the default stuff. Thought I would be golden with this log once I got it working once. Guess not.


Post log file and screenshots.

[kwhiteside]

OK guys, was shutting the notebook down to go to bed and got this little nasty notice from Vista. Ok, sucked into staying up a bit more. Sure, I'll play and clicked on the button to let Vista do whatever it wanted to do. So it reinstalled with its "Recommended Setting" whatever the heck those are??? Ran the program and the samples now work again.

I'll try my stuff again tomorrow.

It looks like the Vista Ultimate OS may be causing problems. Do you guys even know why Vista prompted me like that? And who knows what its recommended settings were that worked, or the ones that didn't work in the first place??????

here's the screen shot of the message.

[Blacky]

Something interrupted or messed with the install or altered settings, files or configuration values in the EFILive installation. It may be a virus, it may be some other badly behaving application on your system interfering with the EFILive files.

Can you send me one of the *.efi files that displays the white vertical lines.
I can check to see if its been modified in any way. Maybe it has had a virus payload inserted into it.

Regards
Paul

[kwhiteside]

Morning guys, I'm fresh now.

OK, all this virus talk got me to do my periodic maintenance. I've always got mcafee running, but still stuff gets in.

msconfig tells you about all your tray crap. Removed a bunch of stuff there including you 7.5 and 8.0 auto updaters.

Went thru control panel, uninstall. If you don't use it, lose it!

Ran Malwarbites Anti-Malware, great program. found a few reg keys it didn't like and blasted them.

rebooted clean, ran scan tool and opened Manaro 0 to 100 sample file. Looks great, able to run and chart!

Without changing any defaults, opened my file. No go, datatab shows 2 externals and that power_rw that I last was playing with. Missing rpm, tp, vss, aft, etc.

Here's the interesting piece, making no changes, went back and reopened the manaro 0 - 100 sample that just looked good a minute ago, and now it is scrambled with verticle lines.

Pic and both the manaro and my efi files attached for you viewing pleasure :)

BTW, I've got a virgin BBL log file in my flashscan that I could copy over and try, but I'll wait for your instructions before I do anything. I could reinstall and overwrite registry keys too, but with this new sequence I've shared, I'll just wait for you guys.

Ken . . .

[Blacky]

rebooted clean, ran scan tool and opened Manaro 0 to 100 sample file. Looks great, able to run and chart!

Without changing any defaults, opened my file. No go, datatab shows 2 externals and that power_rw that I last was playing with. Missing rpm, tp, vss, aft, etc.

Here's the interesting piece, making no changes, went back and reopened the manaro 0 - 100 sample that just looked good a minute ago, and now it is scrambled with verticle lines.

What is the file you refer to as "my file"? Can you send that to me as well?
Either attach it here or send to [email protected]

Regards
Paul

[kwhiteside]

BBL000014.efi in previous post was my Black Box Log file.


What is the file you refer to as "my file"? Can you send that to me as well?
Either attach it here or send to [email protected]

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

It is certainly a strange problem.

Can you try turning off Vista's UAC (User Access Control)? Then re-install EFILive and try running the software again with UAC still turned off?

Regards
Paul

[kwhiteside]

Sure, will do.

[kwhiteside]

Ok, back in business. Hopefully it will all stay cool. I went into V8 and added some more PIDs to track. Usually when I start getting greedy, things go wacko. I need to figure out what I need to BBL log by Sat when I'm running at Road Atlanta. Want to log some runs there. Have all my cables routed through dash and glove box so nobody sees them.

Here's my current dashboard and v8 pid selections. If you want to speed up my curve, just tell me to add this and don't worry about that.

Thanks.

[joecar]

Remove these:
IDLEDES
CYLAIR_M

Add these:
DYNAIR
DYNCYLAIR

Make sure the row of blue/green boxes in the lower left corner does not turn red (red means too many channels/pids).


If you still have room, MFTOTAL and/or EQIVRATIO might be interesting.

[kwhiteside]

Remove these:
IDLEDES
CYLAIR_M

Add these:
DYNAIR
DYNCYLAIR

Make sure the row of blue/green boxes in the lower left corner does not turn red (red means too many channels/pids).


If you still have room, MFTOTAL and/or EQIVRATIO might be interesting.

OK, PID's tweaked, had to load MAP Volts to get away from red. All programmed and ready for a BBL Log on the way home, and then over the weekend at Road Atlanta.

I got a great Log on the way into work and am getting comfortable with the software. I figured out how to cut a piece of it out, add some notes, and save it as a small log file. I'm going to start a new thread asking for tuning help with it posted up there. No need for everyone to read this thread :)

Thanks

[joecar]

You want MAP in kPa rather than in V... drop MAFFREQ if you have to.

Post your log file.

[kwhiteside]

I posted it in the Gen III thread, I'll put it here too.

AFter not getting any responses from this mornings post, I went ahead and tried higher on the B4349, (please read other thread), I went from stock .0255 to .0275. Seems to dive bomb the RPM a little less, but also surges at idle and sometimes stays at 1200 rpm instead of 800 rpm. Keep in mind throttle cracker back at stock. (again please read other thread for history).

Heres my file.

Unless you come up with a confident change to make, I'm setting it back to original as I'm packing up for Road Atlanta and don't want to be messing around there. Have to start thinking about the driver and not worry about the car if you know what I mean.

[kwhiteside]

I can't believe this. I made your changes and created a log on the way home. Tried to load it, all messed up. Tried to load the one I worked with earlier today and now it wont load either. Switched over to my desktop, and am looking at them just fine. The madness of this notebook is killin me. If you would please see if you can give some advice to that other thread. I would love to start actually learning how to tune instead of messing around with installing the program over every day. Arghh!

[kwhiteside]

Here's my new dash from my latest log on the way home. Did it on my desktop. Shows the Dynair and Dynclair now. Also have base injector pulse widths, but no where to put them.

[joecar]

So did you get your new BBL pidlist to work...?

I use 6 charts... (see pic).

I don't know how to tune idle/clutch issues... someone with better knowledge will chime in with a good answer on your other thread.

[kwhiteside]

I cloned your just about.

This is my last log running on my desktop with all the data you recommended. I'll try to get a couple logs tommorrow during my HPDE sessions. That should really tell me how my car is running. Of course it will take me a long time to understand it, but at least I'll have the data. It's not that often you get to push your car hard like I will tomorrow.

I've got my geek trailer all loaded up with R-Compounds and ready to pull it with the hitch on my Vette!

[joecar]

Ok, have fun...:cheers:

[kwhiteside]

Hey Joe, I'm too tired to spend much time on this, but I got a great BBL log file from Road Atlanta with all the PID's you recommended. Here's a snapshot of me heading down the straight for the nasty turn 10a. Let me know what you think from these readings. See anything I should be worried about?

[joecar]

Some observations:
- measured AFR is richer than commanded AFR,
- LTFT's are almost pegging on the high side,
- IAT shows 90°F... was outside air really that hot...?

What are all your mods...?

You may need to do:
- recalculate B4001 IFR,
- correct VE table (see AutoVE tutorial),
- correct MAF (using AutoMAF),
- set B3605 AFR, B3618 PE AFR and B3616 PE Enable.

How many miles do you have on your Z06...?
If you have many miles, then the O2 sensors may need replacement and the MAF may need cleaning (use MAF cleaner not Brake cleaner).

Post your log file and tune file.

Are you logging no more than 24 channels...?

[kwhiteside]

Cool stuff Joe, I'm on my way out. Quick response is when you are running 20 minutes at 5-6k rpm in atlanta, yes it is that hot. This is why I kept bugging you guys for how to log oil temps too. I ran 270-280 oil temp most of the time. Was in 290's two weeks ago, but went with 15w50 Mobile1 Synthetic this time and took the straight in 5'th gear. That will keep me in 270's thru tomorrow. I'll be getting an oil cooler after this event. I have never ever been able to see the IAT, so I don't even know that 90f is high. Nor do I know what will happen to IAT when I put a oil cooler on?

Mods
Fast92 - LS2 TB, Vararam intake
LG Pro Street headers, xpipe no cats

Of note to me is all the talk about the Vararam causing heatsoak. Perhaps the 90f IAT is related to the Vararam in some way, I don't know, but something to dig into.

My monster log file attatched. Please remember its not street driving and its not a dyno run. Its real road racing in 90 degree heat at one of the nastiest tracks in the world. And all I care about is tuning my car to better stand up under these circumstances. That said, your input is greatly appreciated.

[joecar]

Yes, I am alluding to heat soak of the IAT and/or intake plumbing...

[kwhiteside]

Yes, I am alluding to heat soak of the IAT and/or intake plumbing...

Hi Joe, lets start with this as I know what the MAF is and will check both it and my new TB for dirt/oil/anything ugly.

From some quick searches, having 90degree IAT on a 88degree day, with oil temps in the 270-280 degree range, can't be considered heat soak. Air temp pretty much same as the outside air while the engine compartment is cooking seems to me to say that the Vararam CAI is working very well.

Please explain why this looks like something alarming to you.

[joecar]

Oh, I didn't realize your outside air temp was 88F... I was assuming something like 70F... so that is definitely not heat soak.

[joecar]

Good log, very interesting... 43+ minutes... :cheers:

Log shows:
- LTFT's ranging from +12% to +25% (pegging)... indicates MAF may be reading low,
- WOT: actual AFR is richer than commanded AFR by at least 1 AFR,
- WOT: actual AFR is going as low as 11.0,
- CL: actual AFR at stoichiometric equal to commanded AFR... indicates wideband is functioning,
- closed throttle: actual AFR spiking lean (is DFCO enabled...?),
- fairly consistent knock at WOT,
- injector duty cycle hitting 100%;
- there are a few places at WOT 6000+ RPM where MAF is well under 300 g/s;

I'm not sure, but I think maybe the MAF is dirty (only clean with MAF cleaner)... check the air cleaner filter also;

Maybe do this (in this order):
- recalculate B4001 IFR (even if to just sanity check it),
- redo the VE table (AutoVE, in OLSD) if you haven't already (get a log in OLSD anyway),
- correct MAF (using AutoMAF, in OLMAF with B0120 zeroed), get MAF ben to 1.00, get some logs;

Set high load areas in B3605 OL AFR and B3618 PE AFR to something like 12.6.

Once you get the actual AFR matching the commanded AFR, then your injector duty cycle will probably go down a bit.

Questions/Comments:
- you're NA so AFR 11.0 is a bit too rich;
- have you considered running a few laps in OLSD...?
- I don't believe the oil cooler will affect your IAT.
- why is knock being indicated...?
- check if motor ingesting oil thru PCV...?
- does engine top have carbon deposits (have you ever had top engine cleaner)...?
- how many miles on engine...?
- sawtooth pattern on KR indicates it may be real knock (especially during WOT pull);
- from frame 10006 ECT starts to show higher trend... why...?

Create some maps like the one attached to see if you can correlate KR to something.

My $0.02... :)

[kwhiteside]

Thank you so much for spending the time on my log file Joe, I really appreciate it. Keep in mind I really don't know how to use your software just yet. So its going to take a while for me to even understand everything you are talking about. I'll try to answer your questions below. I cracked a rotor on the last lap of the day, so I wont be driving it till the weekend anyway. I'll get the MAF and TB checked out and new rotors by end of weekend. I'll muddle through the AutoVE and as much as I can by end of weekend. Its a good thing my desktop works because I cant even uninstall, delete registry key, reinstall and get the scan tool to read logs anymore on my notebook. I'm not going to obsess over that now that I have real stuff to learn about though. I'm sure that was a uncommon log, just imagine how that rotor cracked. You saw the speed and rpms in the straights, after that was full out brake, then back to full out throttle. Its a blast. Total Nirvana:rockon:


Good log, very interesting... 43+ minutes... :cheers:

Log shows:
- LTFT's ranging from +12% to +25% (pegging)... indicates MAF may be reading low,
- WOT: actual AFR is richer than commanded AFR by at least 1 AFR,
- WOT: actual AFR is going as low as 11.0,
- CL: actual AFR at stoichiometric equal to commanded AFR... indicates wideband is functioning,
- closed throttle: actual AFR spiking lean (is DFCO enabled...?), Even driving around town, when I push clutch in I go lean and my rpm's divebomb to 500. I made a post about this, but nobody answered. I tried 12 pcm changes over last two weeks tweaking the throttle cracker, then the b4349 throttle are conversion. Tried both areas both ways, but didn't solve me lean out dive bombs. I put it back to how it was before I started. I read a bunch of posts about these areas being the ones to tweak, but I couldn't get it fixed. DFCO appears to be on to me. My tune is in a previous post. I didn't see a enabled/disabled setting, but all the tables have values.
- fairly consistent knock at WOT,
- injector duty cycle hitting 100%; This means I need bigger injectors? Yet I'm running rich? or if I fixe the rich problem, Injectors wont be at 100%?
- there are a few places at WOT 6000+ RPM where MAF is well under 300 g/s; How do you know this is low? You are thinking I'm restricted?

I'm not sure, but I think maybe the MAF is dirty (only clean with MAF cleaner)... check the air cleaner filter also;

Maybe do this (in this order):
- recalculate B4001 IFR (even if to just sanity check it),
- redo the VE table (AutoVE, in OLSD) if you haven't already (get a log in OLSD anyway),
- correct MAF (using AutoMAF, in OLMAF with B0120 zeroed), get MAF ben to 1.00, get some logs;

Set high load areas in B3605 OL AFR and B3618 PE AFR to something like 12.6.

Once you get the actual AFR matching the commanded AFR, then your injector duty cycle will probably go down a bit.

Questions/Comments:
- you're NA so AFR 11.0 is a bit too rich;
- have you considered running a few laps in OLSD...?
I don't want to disrupt my driving that much. I can't be worrying about external stuff. I spun once this weekend and ended up 3 feet from a wall. 4 other cars were totalled this weeked. It takes serious concentration and focus. Maybe, I might do the parade lap mafless. I'll think about it.
- I don't believe the oil cooler will affect your IAT.
Under the circumstances, wasn't my IAT normal. 88 degree outside and engine hotter than snot, oil temp in 280's- why is knock being indicated...?
Again, I'm a newby at tuning, but isn't the #1 concern and an engine killer?- check if motor ingesting oil thru PCV...?
I've got a oil catch can to prevent that, so I doubt it. However, my car does have a certain condition called ring flutter. Design flaw on the first year Z06 like mine. When hitting 5-6k rpm then going no load, the scraper rings flutter and let oil into the chamber and I blow a little smoke. I'm not sure how that will present itself in my log. I did a compression check just last week and found the engine in great shape, 195-200 compression on all cylinders. Spark plugs looked perfect after a track day doing what I do.- does engine top have carbon deposits (have you ever had top engine cleaner)...?
No I haven't, but based on plug reading, all seems well.- how many miles on engine...?
80k on engine, hard miles, great compression still
- sawtooth pattern on KR indicates it may be real knock (especially during WOT pull);
Isn't some KR normal. Its there for a purpose right. Excessive conditions such as lean or hot build it in. Seems that I'm rich though, so it must be the heat. - from frame 10006 ECT starts to show higher trend... why...?
The oil temps build as I do more laps at redline. Driver also gets into groove and more agressive each session. I'm still learning. My car would have easily done 160 in those straights if I had the guts. I don't yet. I will eventually. Lets not blow the engine in the process :doh2:
Create some maps like the one attached to see if you can correlate KR to something.
I don't know how to do this, point me to a tutorial if you would.

My $0.02... :)

Thanks again, Ken . . .

[joecar]

Your injector duty cycle will go down as you get your tables tuned.

I'm not comfortable with knock... it's damaging effects are cumulative.

there are various conditions which promote knock:
- elevated combustion chamber temp.,
- reduction in effective octane (oil ingestion would do that),
- timing that is too advanced,
- heat sources in the combustion chamber (like carbon),
- compression ratio too high (carbon layer may do that).

granted, some engines seem to always show some knock, but engine should never be allowed to go lean under load, and timing may have to be removed as air charge temp. goes up.

Maybe it's just as well your actual AFR is in the 11's.

The scantool manual has some good info, see the section regarding maps.

[joecar]

I was comparing your log to some of my logs...

My 2001 WS6 with stock intake manifold (LS6 part no.), stock exhaust/cats: WOT, 5800 rpm, MAP 94 kPa, my MAF read 276 g/s...

You've got LS6 cam, FAST 92 intake, long tube headers and test pipe: WOT, 6500 rpm, MAP 97 kPa, your MAF reads ~260-270 g/s...

Maybe your MAF is ok, but it may be good to check it.

[kwhiteside]

I was comparing your log to some of my logs...

My 2001 WS6 with stock intake manifold (LS6 part no.), stock exhaust/cats: WOT, 5800 rpm, MAP 94 kPa, my MAF read 276 g/s...

You've got LS6 cam, FAST 92 intake, long tube headers and test pipe: WOT, 6500 rpm, MAP 97 kPa, your MAF reads ~260-270 g/s...

Maybe your MAF is ok, but it may be good to check it.

Your obviously a drag racer. Sure is much easier to read just 4 shifts a quarter mile at a time! That's fun too. different thrill, but a thrill none the less :cucumber:

[kwhiteside]

Good log, very interesting... 43+ minutes... :cheers:

Log shows:
- LTFT's ranging from +12% to +25% (pegging)... indicates MAF may be reading low,
- WOT: actual AFR is richer than commanded AFR by at least 1 AFR,
- WOT: actual AFR is going as low as 11.0,
- CL: actual AFR at stoichiometric equal to commanded AFR... indicates wideband is functioning,
- closed throttle: actual AFR spiking lean (is DFCO enabled...?),
- fairly consistent knock at WOT,
- injector duty cycle hitting 100%;
- there are a few places at WOT 6000+ RPM where MAF is well under 300 g/s;

I'm not sure, but I think maybe the MAF is dirty (only clean with MAF cleaner)... check the air cleaner filter also;

Maybe do this (in this order):
- recalculate B4001 IFR (even if to just sanity check it),
- redo the VE table (AutoVE, in OLSD) if you haven't already (get a log in OLSD anyway),
- correct MAF (using AutoMAF, in OLMAF with B0120 zeroed), get MAF ben to 1.00, get some logs;

Set high load areas in B3605 OL AFR and B3618 PE AFR to something like 12.6.

Once you get the actual AFR matching the commanded AFR, then your injector duty cycle will probably go down a bit.

Questions/Comments:
- you're NA so AFR 11.0 is a bit too rich;
- have you considered running a few laps in OLSD...?
- I don't believe the oil cooler will affect your IAT.
- why is knock being indicated...?
- check if motor ingesting oil thru PCV...?
- does engine top have carbon deposits (have you ever had top engine cleaner)...?
- how many miles on engine...?
- sawtooth pattern on KR indicates it may be real knock (especially during WOT pull);
- from frame 10006 ECT starts to show higher trend... why...?

Create some maps like the one attached to see if you can correlate KR to something.

My $0.02... :)

I made my first map attempt. Thought interesting that the worst knock doesn't come at top SPEEDs. I went back thru the graphical log and to the best of my understanding, it happens most at the end of the straights, when I let off the gas partially just before the braking zones. ( I know, your supposed to gas all the way to brake, but sometimes your nuts come up into your throat and you need a second to get ready ) That is also the time when that ring flutter happens, high rpm but low load. Perhaps the little oil in the chamber messes up the mixture. Can the car really react that fast to stuff, I mean split second monitored I suppose by the O2's on way out, tell car to knock retard?

[mr.prick]

That's quite a bit of KR.
You might want to lower the {B6203} (30%) and raise {B6207} (50%)
If you still get it subtract logged KR.

[kwhiteside]

That's quite a bit of KR.
You might want to lower the {B6203} (30%) and raise {B6207} (50%)
If you still get it subtract logged KR.

Thanks for the input, all is appreciated. I didn't even know those existed as I'm very new to this. Having looked at what you suggest though, it kind of seems like treating the symptom and not really fixing the problem. If you have read JoeCar's posts above, there are most likely some mechanical problems causing my problems, plus base tuning most likely needed after resolving those problems. Again, I totally don't know what I'm doing yet so this is just my gut thought. Hopefully Joe will chime in.

I'll be cleaning my MAF, TB, Vararam Filter, checking for leaks, Intake torque by end of weekend and try to do the AutoVe. The findings from all this should lend some very good facts.

[joecar]

I know that stock 2001 F-cars knock quite a bit...

I don't know if 2001 Z06's do the same...

Some year/models (1998 F-car if I remember) had 4° KR consistently (caused by bad knock sensors and/or subharness)...

Some year/models do not knock at all... or hardly ever.

There are reasons for knock being detected... the difficult part is finding the exact actual reason(s)...

it can be a real detonation and/or pre-igniton (some of the causes were mentioned above)...

it can be false knock (piston or valvetrain noise, LT header banging into chassis, broken/loose flywheel, broken/loose motor mounts...)...

it may even be due to bad knock sensors...

the PCM sees signal(s) from the knock sensor(s), filters it, and deems what's left to be knock, and ramps KR in/out based on the "volume" and "duration" of the filtered knock signal...

Real knock is damaging... the mixture instantly explodes (instead of burning in an outward spreading ripple like manner), causing cylinder pressure to spike very high very sharply... this is what causes failures in head gaskets, pistons, crank and rod bearings... every little bit of real knock is contributing to damage (altho small amounts of knock thru-out the life of the engine may not necessarily amount to a failure)... a larger knock sustained for some amount of time (e.g. medium to severe knock lasting say 5 to 10 seconds during say a lean condition) can cause immediate catastrophic failure (melted/cracked piston, broken ringland, failed bearing... or worse).

Sometimes we can do something about it, but sometimes we can't.

[kwhiteside]

Hey Joe and Blacky,

I had the car up in the air for a while doing a bunch of mods. I put it back in service today and took my first stab at the AutoVE tutorial.

Oh, during the mod week, I took my intake stuff apart and cleaned the MAF with a can of MAF Cleaner, verified the Vararam filter was clean, and the Throttle body was also clean. My FAST Intake manifold was loose again. I've torqued it down and will be watching it like a hawk. It was surely loose during my last track day where my logs you guys looked at were from.

Back to the AutoVE tutorial. Something doesn't look right, see pics. for some reason the Ben is lined through, but data tab showed every pid under the sun. When I hit the avg butten, every cell goes to zero. When I copy the map cells with values over to the main ve table, it looks all jacked up, especially in ranges where I had lots of cell counts logged.

I'm ready to focus on my tune for a while and it seems that the car runs fine even with this wierd tune flashed into it, so I could drive it to work and get some 30 minute logs.

I also don't really know how to tell if I triggered the MAF failure that needs to happen. I left my MAF plugged in as instructed. Is there a quick way to tell if the MAF tripped errors?

[Blacky]

Something doesn't look right, see pics. for some reason the Ben is lined through

That PID is not selected or is invalid for some reason. Find it on the F8 tab page and right click on it ans select More info to find out what the problem is.


When I hit the avg butten, every cell goes to zero.

That's because the average of a PID that is not being logged (see above) is 0.


When I copy the map cells with values over to the main ve table, it looks all jacked up, especially in ranges where I had lots of cell counts logged.

You should not copy/past the cell count values. You should only copy/paste the average (or min/max) values. Which will be in the range 0..2 (for BEN factor PIDs).


I also don't really know how to tell if I triggered the MAF failure that needs to happen. I left my MAF plugged in as instructed. Is there a quick way to tell if the MAF tripped errors?

DTC P0102 will be set. You also have to change that DTC to not turn on the MIL otherwise you're MIL will be on all the time.

Regards
Paul

[kwhiteside]

I've got the p0101-p0103 set to no mil as instructed.

I can't select ben-lc11 because it relies upon ext.ad1. I'm using serial not analog so I can select ben1 that relies on ext.woafr1, but I can't pick that inside the map for some reason.

[mr.prick]

Is CALC.BEN1 selected?
That is the serial WBO2 BEN PID.
It needs EXT.WO2AFR1 and GM.AFR to be selected to be valid.

[kwhiteside]

I can get BEN Factor Ban 1, Serial wideband, LS1 Style, but all of the BEN Numerator PID require and ext analog connection??????

This one is the CALC.BEN1, but it still isn't a numerator PID??

Shall I use the BEN Factor Ban 1 in my map to replace the Ben-LC11 numerator and run it all over again?

[mr.prick]

Shall I use the BEN Factor Ban 1 in my map to replace the Ben-LC11 numerator and run it all over again?

Yes, for serial WBO2

[joecar]

Yes, replace BEN-LC11 with BEN1 in your map and save with new filename.

Pay attention if map is displaying cell counts, min values, max values, or average values (the last one is the one you want).

Post new screenshots and log/tune files.

Mark the intake manifold bolts with a paint stick to later see if they have rotated.

[kwhiteside]

Good idea on the bolts, I'll do that.

Question for you. I'm going to get a good log after work tonight, but I noticed at the end of the tutorial we are expecting my LongFuelTrims to go down to -4 to 0 range. Being that mine from the track day were 10 to 25 all day long (maxed out) Is it really expected to see this kind of a reading?

[kwhiteside]

Ok, pretty much thru the AUTOVE Tutorial. I'll post I'll my stuff up. A little unnerving how much it pinged when I got on it a couple times. I've pasted my averages over and multiplied to VE table, then I went ahead and flashed that up to the PCM. Thats where I stand now. I haven't taken it out again after that yet. I could do another run tonight, and I plan on driiving to work tomorrow. Looking forward to the next steps.

The two pics show the VE table before I pasted over and after pasting over with the average cells.

I looked at the log file and the few times I got on it (frames 4190, 6050, 6520) my afr is about a point richer than commanded. Maybe what we just did with the Autotun will help rectify that? Please explain to me as I'm kind of just following instructions without a good understanding of what we are doing. I see that the VE numbers have drastically been lowered after the paste, up to about 5000 rpm. (City driving, don't want to go to jail tonight!)

Oh, I noticed my long term fuel trims were right at zero the whole time. I totally don't understand how it changed so much. Please explain to me.

Where from here? More tweaking with this tutorial, or on to the next one?

[kwhiteside]

Joe,

I skipped the B4001 Injector Flow Rate table and am backtracking. Can you help me figure out what injectors I have.

2001 Z06
They piece that clips onto them has a purple top and has "PED 42" written on them. I have reason to believe they may not be stock, but I really don't know.

I've hooked up a fuel pressure gauge and run at 68 pounds most of the time. I know stock is 58 pounds, so it appears my fuel pump has been upgraded.

If they are 42pounds injectors PED 42, how do I know what the Injector Rated Fuel Pressure should be. The spreadsheet has 43.5 in there.

[kwhiteside]

I reread the tutorial last night and realized I didn't follow the last part right. I have now loaded the original tune, and alternate of SDAutoVe_000, then overlaid the VE table with the new values, Saved Original_Tun_0000 and flashed it up. Drove to work with BBL logging on and found my Long fuel trims -2 to -5 and my AFR staying right on commanded AFR. I was not able to get on it at all, it was a total cruise, but at least under those circumstances, AFR and commanded are in line. Also of note is that since I started messing with the AutoTune, I have not had the rpm dive bomb problem I posted about. Hope it stays that way as I progress thru the tune.

I will be able to make some tweaks during lunch and get on it a bit on the way home with BBL running. Hopefully you guys will come back from holiday or whatever happened yesterday and read this.

On the injectors, mine are gray and say bosch on the side.

[kwhiteside]

I've researched like crazy about Injectors and have some understanding now.

Stock Z06 Injectors are rated at 28lb for 58psi 4bar. The spreadsheet defaults to 43.5psi 3bar because that is how most injectors are rated when sold.

So if I input a flow rate of 28 at a rated rate of 58, but then change my actual pressure to 68 which it is, I start seeing problems. This is assuming my injectors are still stock. ( I now know there should be a part number on the side of them, I'll get that when I get my glasses to read ) So I'm racing around and my commanded AFR is based on a 58psi table when actually I'm pushing out 68psi and more fuel. This explains why I'm running richer than commanded. Now if my injectors are upgraded bigger ones, that condition would be even worse to the rich side. The pcm is sending voltage to the injectors like they are small 28lb injectors at 58psi, but if they are big 40lb injectors being hit with 68psi, they will be releasing too much fuel.

How's that, do I pass Injector 101?

[mr.prick]

What injectors are you using?
You will need to change all the offset tables as well as {B4001}.
Do a search or start another thread for this info.

[joecar]

Yes, that would be why you're richer... recalculate for 68 psi (you measured this at the rail...?).

The stock Z06 injectors would be 28.8 lb/hr at 58 psi... or is it 28.0 lb/hr...?

I think the other injector tables may be ok at 68 psi, but I'm not so sure...

[joecar]

Do you know if they are the stock injectors or not...?

From your description, they don't appear to be...

Post some pics of them.

[kwhiteside]

Do you know if they are the stock injectors or not...?

From your description, they don't appear to be...

Post some pics of them.

I have verified the injectors are stock 12561462 28lb injectors. The high fuel pressure (68psi) is the variable left to question or make adjustments for.