Throttle cracker activate/deactivate

[Kurtomac]

messed with the activate/deactivate speed today...changed to 10 and 9...yet below 10mph ie 8mph and 4 mph per the TC table still seems to jump a tiny bit of rpm when it hits those and still wants to die sometimes when rolling to a stop...so it still seemed like it was adding that airflow in when it hit 8 and 4 even tho i had it activated at 10mph and deactivated at 9mph....do i need to zero out the TC table to achieve this at 8 and below or what?

[Kurtomac]

another questions...when does my car use the base timing in gear and when does it use the LO or HO spark tables...ETC car 02Z06....experimenting with some stuff to chase down this dreaded bucking

[WeathermanShawn]

Well, remember your have Throttle Follower Airflow and your Desired Airflow are also contributing to your total airflow.

My TC table is almost zeroed out in the lower RPM's, but I followed the Idle Tutorial and added more air via the TF.

Usually more air keeps your RPM's up. Stalling might be fueling, spark, or not enough air. I have 4g/s in my 400 RPM row on the TC table just to insure I have enough air if the RPM's drop.

Are you sure that your stalling is TC related? I did not mess around with the activate/deactivate function speed at all. I believe if you deactivate TC, the TF is also deactivated. You might not have enough airflow if you are stalling.

[Kurtomac]

i guess i'll turn this into a thread of questions....initial startups on my car...commanded is per my CFOL table but actual per my WB is wayyy leaner IE 15:1....same on hot starts....can i help this with the charge temp blending table? and if so which way should i go?

[Kurtomac]

Well, remember your have Throttle Follower Airflow and your Desired Airflow are also contributing to your total airflow.

Not sure exactly what you are encountering. My TC table is almost zeroed out in the lower RPM's, but I followed the Idle Tutorial and added more air via the TF.

Usually more air keeps your RPM's up... stalling might be fueling, spark, or not enough air. In fact I have 4g/s in my 400 RPM row on the TC table just to insure I have enough air if the RPM's drop.

Are you sure that your stalling is TC related? I did not mess around with the activate/deactivate function speed at all. I believe if you deactivate TC, the TF is also deactivated. You might not have enough airflow if you are stalling.

Let us know how it works out.

..WeathermanShawn..

thanks for the response...watching my afr...Ltrims turned off but closed loop enabled only using strims...my average Strim value last drive was only a couple percent and it follows stoich very close...dont think its fueling...nor do i think my bucking is coming from fueling...prob nature of my cam but i like to think not :) My stalling is not bad at all...its more of a finicky thing 8 of 10 stops are fairly good...2 dip down and i also have 3 grams in the 400 row to help a stall. I have my idle learning set to where it will not take away any airflow only add if needed and watching STIT's the average is pretty close as i got my desired airflow is pretty much where it needs to be.
Also recently did a maf bypass with a 3.5" ID pipe...my kpa at idle went from 68 or 69 to 63-64....my problems i describe arent new though
what did you do with your timing tables...ie base and HO and LO tables...matched or what? And where you were bucking in the .08-.20 grams part on the timing table...what timing values seemed to smooth out your bucking?
Reason i think its TC is its usually clutch in rolling idle kind of a deal....from what i read this is when TC is active and TF is not....i havnt really messed with the TF...should i read up on it more?

[Kurtomac]

BTW shawn...how do you like working at Denver airport? Im a Air Traffic Controller Tower guy in the USAF in NC...prob will get out after my enlistment and work FAA, DOD, or Contract work.

[WeathermanShawn]

Denver is great. Weatherman's dream.

Did USAF for 7 years (2 enlistments) including Fulda Germany, Offutt AFB, and Altus in OK. Got out and have been in Aviation Meteorology since. Re-started up my interest in cars with the last year of LS1 Camaro production (2002).

I basically got Desired Airflow lined up with RAFIG..my car still wanted more air, and worked a lot on lowering the air in the TC Table . Really no more than .25-1g for most Rpms. Added air with the TF because I personally like the throttle response through the IAC with this parameter. When you push the throttle down you get more air. Release the throttle and the additional air decays.

Working of the TC Table did more to alleviate my bucking than anything else. This was bucking that occurs at low cylinder air and with the foot off the throttle. I think with too much air (especially TC), the engine speed doesn't want to fall, but the cylinder air drops as you let off the throttle. By taking air out of the TC, engine speed falls more in sync with the rapid drop in cylinder air as you let off the throttle.

As far as spark advance..I did many many trial and error runs. Some with very little spark, others matching HI-Low & Base Spark and others with a lot of timing. For me it worked out to be the opposite of what others have found. My car was more smooth in deceleration, throttle response, and had less bucking with more spark advance in the .08-.20 g/cy range.

Spark advance changes did not effect my bucking issues at all. Lowering the TC air cured 95% of the problem for me. My car does not require much timing at WOT, so the slope of my timing curve is quite steep. But, I like the throttle response with higher spark advance in low cylinder air areas, and then it drops off rapidly as I got WOT. I match my Hi-LO, and Base Spark tables.

[Kurtomac]

Cool, I got a few buddies at the weather shop i play golf with and had lots of weather buddies when i was in Keesler for tech school a couple years ago.

care to show your tune off? I'd like to check out the TC and TF...i made some changes last night to my TC lowering it and upped the desired air just a hair as idling stopped my idle trims would be positive. Do remember I have a ETC car.
Anything on why my startups are lean even though commanding rich? Looking at that charge temp blending table...it references the MAF...I no longer run a maf...i took it out and installed a IAT sensor and wired it in.
Also made some additional changes to my timing tables upping the timing values in the 1200-2000rpm section .08-.20 grams...I'll try matching my timing tables again and see what happens...I had it this way before...
also let me state 95% of my bucking is light throttle...off throttle it rarely bucks....which TF airflow table do you change? the multipier? decay rates? airflow? All of them?
Im gonna be doine a few WOT pulls on the highway to get my WOT AFR a little tighter and may hit the dyno this weekend...shootin for 480rwhp
made 469rwhp 417rwtq before my most recent round of changes


Oh yea, Denver is great. Weatherman's dream.

Did USAF for 7 years (2 enlistments) including Fulda Germany, Offutt AFB, and Altus in OK.

Got out and have been in Aviation Meteorology since. Re-started up my interest in cars with the last year of LS1 Camaro production (2002).

Yea, figuring out all the air parameters almost drove me nuts. I basically got Desired Airflow lined up with RAFIG..my car still wanted more air, and worked a lot on lowering the air in the TC Table . Really no more than .25-1g for most Rpms.

Added air with the TF because I personally like the throttle response through the IAC with this parameter. When you push the throttle down..more air..release the throttle..air goes away (TC+Desired,etc).

In all honesty, the working of the TC Table did more to alleviate my bucking than anything else. Now this was bucking that occurs at low cylinder air and with the foot off the throttle. I think with too much air (especially TC), the engine speed doesn't want to fall, but the cylinder air drops as you let off the throttle. By taking air out of the TC, engine speed falls more in sync with the rapid drop in cylinder air as you let off the throttle.

As far as spark advance..I did many many trial and error runs. Some with very little spark, others matching HI-Low & Base Spark and others with a lot of timing.

For me it worked out to be the opposite of what others have found. My car was more smooth in deceleration, throttle response, and had less bucking with more spark advance in the .08-.20 g/cy range.

Perhaps stating it differently, spark advance changes did not effect my bucking issues at all. Lowering the TC air cured 95% of the problem for me. My car does not require much timing at WOT, so the slope of my timing curve is quite steep. But, I like the throttle response with higher spark advance in low cylinder air areas, and then it drops off rapidly as I got WOT.

I match my Hi-LO, and Base Spark tables. Just makes it easier for my mind to sort it out when testing.

Sorry, for the book response here. Hey, I got a lot of open roads out here and the job does not eat up as much time as previous ones.

Need any more help, let us know. Every car is different, just letting you know what worked for me.

..WeathermanShawn..

[joecar]

You can edit your modification history.

[Big Mike]

You can edit your modification history.How is that accomplished Joe? I've often wanted to do that just in an effort to clean it up after working through a tuning issue but could never figure out how.

[Big Mike]

How is that accomplished Joe? I've often wanted to do that just in an effort to clean it up after working through a tuning issue but could never figure out how.After asking, a 1/2 hour later I finally figured it out on my own. Funny how that happens. :doh2:

Highlight and then cut what you don't want visible on the history page and then just re-save the file. Simple. :)

[joecar]

After asking, a 1/2 hour later I finally figured it out on my own. Funny how that happens. :doh2:Yes, that happens to me alot... lol...:doh2::doh2::doh2:

[Kurtomac]

Thanks...shawn do you got any dyno graphs with this tune?

[WeathermanShawn]

Here is my original dyno from Texas Speed from a couple of years ago.

Excuse the multiple graphs. One is the dyno run before the Head/Cam change..several as the AFR was being tweaked and the final dyno run.

Texas Speed did the run in 'engine speed' instead of RPM. The Excel chart is my conversion of engine speed to RPM's (3.42 gears at time) in order to display the Torque curve.

The one 1/4 track run at did at Bandimere Speedway (elevation 5860') I was trapping at ~110.5 mph at 7400' DA. Might not sound impressive, but its good for ~122mph at sea level.

Took me about 6 months-1 year to figure out this combo. Wanted as much torque as I could pack in for just a fun N/A street car..and chug up these big hills here.

..WeathermanShawn..

[Kurtomac]

dang 375rwtq at 3000 rpm nice
my old graph is ugly...not sure if its heads, cam, or intake related (the ugly tq curve)...no matter how much or little timing...or how fat or lean...the hills were there
This is with my old cam...and a few less nick nack mods...did go 127.4 with that cam though!
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg145/Kurtomac/dyno.jpg

[WeathermanShawn]

Man 127MPh..yea, thats fast!

What kind of racing weight does you car come in at? With that kind of power & weight must be like a rocket.

It is always amazing to see other people's combinations. Lot of respectable power, whether at the track or on this forum.

Nice set-up!

[Kurtomac]

DA was around -700....good old east coast for ya....sometimes in the tower in the winter we see -2500ish haha....z06s weigh around 3050 plus my 200lb fat ass...so i would guess around 3250 raceweight....had a drag pack on(ghetto) z06 front rims with 26 11.5 17 et streets and GTO spares in front with MH racemaster Skinnies
heres a video of the 11.10 at 127.4 pass...see i bogged bad out of the hole...only my 2nd pass on the setup...broke on my 3rd...10s were money on a good launch but i broke
http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg145/Kurtomac/?action=view&current=gaycar009.flv
some pics...i had parts everywhere
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg145/Kurtomac/IMAGE_055Large.jpg
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg145/Kurtomac/JackedTrans.jpg
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg145/Kurtomac/IMAGE_063Large.jpg
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg145/Kurtomac/IMAGE_066Large.jpg
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg145/Kurtomac/IMAGE_067Large.jpg

[joecar]

127 is fast... :cheers: the ugliness in the TQ didn't matter... :cheers:

Is that the trans output shaft...? Nice spiral fracture...:cheers:

[Kurtomac]

joe did you watch the vid?
yes the trans output shaft...that busted inside my new $2400 diff cracking my 600 mile ring gear....that was a expensive day

[joecar]

I watched the vid where you blew past the Mustang... oh, there's more pics...