How to tune VE tables on a '98 ???

[Thedude]

I read somewhere that you supossed to use the secondary, or I think ELILive calls it "backup VE" table to tune VE on the '98 model LS1's ??
This true??

Also, any tutorials on how to adjust the VE using Fuel Trim's ?
I figure you could log LTFT , and map LTFT % (gm's/cyl) vs. RPM, that would tell you where to adjust the VE table, but can you just then copy/paste those values to the VE table to correct and bring the LTFT / stft closer to zero?

I don't have a WB yet, and it will be a while, mean time I want to get a halfway decent tune on the car as far as fueling (except for WOT, of course)
Please help a noob get started here !
Thanks

[wait4me]

Main ve is used when you are using the maf sensor.

The backup ve table gets defaulted to when there is a maf failure.

To tune, i just make the changes to both, copy and paste with " lables" from the main to the secondary makes it very fast to do.

Also make sure to note that there are other tables that swap when not using a maf sensor. Timing tables, spark adaptive learning, And another big thing to correct is the max line pressure on maf failure.

[87gmc]

Also can autotune be used on 98's?

[Dirk Diggler]

Yes it can you have to setup a map for the primary and secondary ve tables

[Black02SS]

Yes it can you have to setup a map for the primary and secondary ve tables

Shouldn't have to set up two maps, should only need one. If you make a primary map and "Copy with Labels" like Jesse mentioned, it should take the values for the secondary and plot them in with no problems.

[Dirk Diggler]

Yes it can you have to setup a map for the primary and secondary ve tables

Shouldn't have to set up two maps, should only need one. If you make a primary map and "Copy with Labels" like Jesse mentioned, it should take the values for the secondary and plot them in with no problems.


What about the 3% discrepancy we saw from logging the primary adn secondary tables separate

[Black02SS]

Yes it can you have to setup a map for the primary and secondary ve tables

Shouldn't have to set up two maps, should only need one. If you make a primary map and "Copy with Labels" like Jesse mentioned, it should take the values for the secondary and plot them in with no problems.


What about the 3% discrepancy we saw from logging the primary adn secondary tables separate

:? That is a very good point..... hmmmmm

[Thedude]

Main ve is used when you are using the maf sensor.

The backup ve table gets defaulted to when there is a maf failure.

To tune, i just make the changes to both, copy and paste with " lables" from the main to the secondary makes it very fast to do.

Also make sure to note that there are other tables that swap when not using a maf sensor. Timing tables, spark adaptive learning, And another big thing to correct is the max line pressure on maf failure.

So if the backup table gets used when MAF failure detected, how do you tune VE in SD/open loop mode? You can't copy the backup VE tables to the Primary tables, because the backup has less columns.
Man, the more i try to learn the more confused I become.
Why not just tune the VE with the MAF connected. That would compensate for both VE error and MAF errors together, right?
please help me understand, I want to get my LTFT's straightned out.

[J 98ta]

Get a wideband. I put it off for too long. Once I got it, and did the auto VE, I was happy right off the bat. Much easier, and much less time consuming. I have not gone back to the MAF yet, but I plan on creating the Main VE table in Excel from the secondary VE, then copy-paste. I figure I would avg the columns to create the additional 1/2 MAP range. IE: avg the 20MAP wiith the 30 MAP to get my 25MAP, and so on. Than I assume there may be some fine tuning after that.

Hope this helps,

'J

[dissonance]

I was planning on trying to tune my ve tables this weekend but the tables do not match as stated above.

So what steps would need to be taken with a wbo2? And once we get it nailed down we could update the added info to the autove tuning guide.

wait4me talked about timing, spark adaptive learning and line pressure on maf fail. I have been looking around in the cal and was unable to find these maf fail values or are you talking about turning off dtc’s?

[Dirk Diggler]

IMHO

I would

1. Setup 2 maps one that mimicks the primary ve table and one that mimicks the secondary ve table (you will see why after you start logging)

2. Setup the data colums on your maps to log the BEN factor

3. Copy and fill or copy and paste as factor back to the respective tables. Rinse and repeat until you are satisfied.

OR

you could make just a map for the primary table and copy every other row or colum to the secondary ve table


The maf fail is C2901 and the tranny line pressure stuff is E101-103 in the bin i looked at (2001) EVERYTHING is set to "No"

[98WS6_JPM]

'J 98,
I assume that you mean that you did the Auto Tune procedure (using WBO2) on your 98 model. Was there any differences in the procedure for your car versus 99+ cars? It looks like your still running an SD tune exclusively. Are there any quirks on an SD-only tune on our models?

I have an LC-1 on order and want to try the AutoTune...

thanks!
Jason

[GMPX]

I had been planning on changing the 1998 O.S to ignore the backup table, but I did a bad thing to my 1998 PCM and it's kinda sick right now.
I have a setup here when I can run a PCM up on a bench with simulated engine RPM and sensors, problem is my 1998 PCM is now in shutdown mode (my fault) so I can't really test the program mods.
But I will revisit this issue and I think it would be worthwhile us releasing a patched O.S to have dual spark and no backup VE when MAFless.

Cheers,
Ross

[foff667]

I have a setup here when I can run a PCM up on a bench with simulated engine RPM and sensors,
Cheers,
Ross

that is pure tuning geek syndrome...lol when you not only have the bench harness but a setup to emulate actual driving :D

[J 98ta]

'J 98,
I assume that you mean that you did the Auto Tune procedure (using WBO2) on your 98 model. Was there any differences in the procedure for your car versus 99+ cars? It looks like your still running an SD tune exclusively. Are there any quirks on an SD-only tune on our models?

I have an LC-1 on order and want to try the AutoTune...

thanks!
Jason

Correct, still running in sd mode. Just got back from a ~60 mile trip, and everything ran smoothly. I pretty much followed the tutorial right on. However, my trans is Vac modulated, so the pressure element does not affect me. Maybe someone will chime in with what exactly needs to be done here. I am not sure myself if there is something else I should have changed in the trans... anyone ?

Ross, sounds great. :D

'J

[dissonance]

The 98 cal matches the tutorial very close and I hoping to mess with the SD mode when I get off work tomorrow... 4 1/2 day weekend so I should have time to tune... best of all my wife has to work 2 1/2 of those days! As napoleon dynamite would say “yessss”

I will also look in to the dtc’s and post back what I come up with.

I did a few WOT runs today and my AFR was around 12.3-12.4 “lc1” maybe after the tune; it will be more like 12.9

[WicketMike]

I had been planning on changing the 1998 O.S to ignore the backup table, but I did a bad thing to my 1998 PCM and it's kinda sick right now.
I have a setup here when I can run a PCM up on a bench with simulated engine RPM and sensors, problem is my 1998 PCM is now in shutdown mode (my fault) so I can't really test the program mods.
But I will revisit this issue and I think it would be worthwhile us releasing a patched O.S to have dual spark and no backup VE when MAFless.

Cheers,
Ross

have you been able to try this yet?

thanks

[antivenom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMPX
I had been planning on changing the 1998 O.S to ignore the backup table, but I did a bad thing to my 1998 PCM and it's kinda sick right now.
I have a setup here when I can run a PCM up on a bench with simulated engine RPM and sensors, problem is my 1998 PCM is now in shutdown mode (my fault) so I can't really test the program mods.
But I will revisit this issue and I think it would be worthwhile us releasing a patched O.S to have dual spark and no backup VE when MAFless.

Cheers,
Ross


Bump...inquiring minds with 1998 PCM's want to know!!

[Doc]

IMHO

I would

1. Setup 2 maps one that mimicks the primary ve table and one that mimicks the secondary ve table (you will see why after you start logging)

2. Setup the data colums on your maps to log the BEN factor

3. Copy and fill or copy and paste as factor back to the respective tables. Rinse and repeat until you are satisfied.

OR

you could make just a map for the primary table and copy every other row or colum to the secondary ve table


The maf fail is C2901 and the tranny line pressure stuff is E101-103 in the bin i looked at (2001) EVERYTHING is set to "No"


This works! With the aforementioned thought following the AutoVE tuning guide works(with a LC-1). I got the car into SD mode and made some logs-need more "wash, rinse, repeat,"(W/R/R) I didn't have a lot of time. I am going to Gainsville (Local 1/4 track) for test and tune. It is about 45 min from my house so, I plan on W/R/R, get checked in with tech and pull the car around to the lot to check out the logs and tweak. Then make some runs. W/R/R. Then make some more runs. BTW, the car runs like a scalled dog in SD.