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kwhiteside
June 30th, 2009, 02:21 AM
My Actual AFR is running richer than commanded during serious track days and I'm trying to figure out my tune.

The EFILive guys gave me a list of things to check, starting with the B4001 Injector Flow Rate table.

I've researched like crazy about Injectors and have some understanding now.

Stock Z06 Injectors are rated at 28lb for 58psi 4bar. The spreadsheet defaults to 43.5psi 3bar because that is how most injectors are rated when sold.

So if I input a flow rate of 28 at a rated rate of 58, but then change my actual pressure to 68 which it is, I start seeing problems. This is assuming my injectors are still stock. ( I now know there should be a part number on the side of them, I'll get that when I get my glasses to read ) So I'm racing around and my commanded AFR is based on a 58psi table when actually I'm pushing out 68psi and more fuel. This explains why I'm running richer than commanded. Now if my injectors are upgraded bigger ones, that condition would be even worse to the rich side. The pcm is sending voltage to the injectors like they are small 28lb injectors at 58psi, but if they are big 40lb injectors being hit with 68psi, they will be releasing too much fuel.

Please confirm what I'm thinking that if this IFR table is too low, I'll be running richer than commanded?

Also please explain why the b4001 table and the injector.xls spreadsheet stop at map Kpa stops at 80. When I'm speeding along, my map gets close to 100 Kpa which is off the table? Is there another place for WOT IFR?

I'm learning as fast as I can, don't laugh too hard at that last question. I hear guys talking about how the WOT settings are less computer controlled all the time, I just don't know where to look inside EFILive yet.

joecar
June 30th, 2009, 03:12 AM
The IFR axis is MANVAC which is BARO - MAP and not MAP.

mr.prick
June 30th, 2009, 03:17 AM
So you are using stock 28lb injectors @ 68psi?
68 -58 = 10/68 =14.7
Increase {B4001} 14.7% from stock
Then I imagine you will need to tune all over again.

joecar
June 30th, 2009, 06:20 AM
The IFR axis is MANVAC which is BARO - MAP and not MAP.
Ken,

MANVAC=80kPa corresponds to MAP=20kPa (assuning BARO=100kPa).

The B4001 IFR table is indexed by MANVAC... at WOT, MANVAC is 0kPa (since MAP is 100kPa).

joecar
June 30th, 2009, 06:30 AM
See my other comments: showthread.php?p=98072#post98072 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?p=98072#post98072)

joecar
June 30th, 2009, 06:31 AM
Ken,

If you have STOCK injectors...

Can you adjust your fuel presure regulator to 58 psi...?

If you can, that would be great because then all the other injector tables (derived by GM engineers to suit your stock Z06 injectors) would then be correct...

If not, then even tho the IFR table can be recalculated, those other injector tables may not be correct anymore.

mr.prick
June 30th, 2009, 06:37 AM
Are the offsets dependent on FP or the impedance of the injector?

kwhiteside
June 30th, 2009, 06:38 AM
I got the number off them, 12561462, they are the stock 28lb injectors. According to my Prosport gauge hooked to the end of the fuel rail, I'm pushing 68-70psi fuel pressure instead of 58.

Is that high psi so unusual that I should question the gauge setup, or trust the gauge and alter my b4001, then redo my AutoVE tune? Keep in mind one of the main problems identified in my track day log was that actual afr was richer then commanded.

mr.prick
June 30th, 2009, 06:41 AM
Be sure of your FP,
I had a mechanical gauge on the fuel rail and it read 10psi higher than actual.
What fuel pump are you running, how did you up the FP?

kwhiteside
June 30th, 2009, 06:47 AM
I did not up the fuel pressure. I bought the car a year ago. Recently hooked up AFR and Fuel pressure gauges to the apillar pod as I was thinking about running some nitrous. It is a prosport gauge that has a sender on the end of the fuel rail with an fittings then wires to the gauge.

http://www.maperformance.com/prosport-52mm-fuel-pressure-gauge-w-sender-blue-performance.html

kwhiteside
June 30th, 2009, 06:50 AM
Be sure of your FP,
I had a mechanical gauge on the fuel rail and it read 10psi higher than actual.
What fuel pump are you running, how did you up the FP?

I'm not sure if I should ignore the gauge reading and move forward, or if the psi being higher could actually be a source of me running richer than commanded.

Is it real uncommon for the fuel pressure of a vette like mine to be anything other than 58? If it is uncommon, maybe I should just ignore it and move on.

mr.prick
June 30th, 2009, 08:27 AM
What fuel pump are you using and other fuel related mods.
a Wahlbro 255 will give you 60psi average.
Is COTP on?
also there are some tables that will reduce PE TPS%
You may just need some adjustments to VE or MAF.

joecar
June 30th, 2009, 09:16 AM
Is your fuel pump stock...?

If it is, then either your pillar gauge is wrong (most likely) or the FPR is sticking...

Do you have a mechanic's fuel pressure gauge (e.g. Sunpro or OTC)... hook it to the fuel rail and see what it says... 58 +/-2psi is ok.

joecar
June 30th, 2009, 09:17 AM
The other injector tables collectively take into account the amount of fuel that flows while the injectors are ramping open/closed... i.e. it is not the area under a triangle, but the area under some ploynomial...

so if Ken can run stock pressure then those tables would be "as designed" by GM... otherwise they would be out by some small amount... I don't know how far out they would be, maybe it's neglible, but what if it wasn't...

5.7ute
June 30th, 2009, 11:45 AM
The other injector tables collectively take into account the amount of fuel that flows while the injectors are ramping open/closed... i.e. it is not the area under a triangle, but the area under some ploynomial...

so if Ken can run stock pressure then those tables would be "as designed" by GM... otherwise they would be out by some small amount... I don't know how far out they would be, maybe it's neglible, but what if it wasn't...

You could calculate the changes in the voltage offset tables easily enough, since this table gives the opening/closing times in relation to the pressure differential over the injector. How the small pulse adjusments will need to be calibrated could be a different story though, as the injectors small pulsewidth characteristics may vary greatly from stock with a larger pressure differential.