Finished 3 bar SD TUNE. How do I return to closed loop?

[nitrorocket]

Finished 3 bar SD TUNE. How do I return to closed loop? The tutorial says not to floow the instructions to return to closed loop if you have a new O.S. with a 3 bar.

I need to run closed loop somehow. My actual AFR is changing alot depending on th eoutside temp. Perfect when 80 degrees out, lean when 50 degrees.

How do I stop this? Please help? Unless I missed something in the tutorial, I feel a little left out to dry!?!?!?

[GMPX]

You can't go back to 'true' closed loop with LTFT etc if you want to run the AFR MAP vs RPM table.
Basically now just change any cell in the AFR MAP vs RPM table to 14.63:1 AFR (Or EQ=1.00) and the PCM will use the O2 sensors for STFT, this solves AFR drift at idle etc.

Cheers,
Ross

P.S - Glad to hear it's all up and running, how's it feel to drive??.

[nitrorocket]

So what do I do for weather temp changes changing my AFR at WOT? What exact tables do I have to re-enable or change? I want to be able to drive the car whenever I want and not have to constantly manually change my VE map to compensate for the weather. Help!

The car is a monster. I ran to 13 psi yesterday and the car will spin the tires from any speed at a roll. Even at 100 mph! I should be putting down about 700-750 rwhp right now. I cannot even explain how much power the car has under boost. The difference between 9 psi and 13 psi feels like double!

[joecar]

He he he, I need this for my daily driver (it will wake me up in the mornings...)... :D :D :D

Rule the world.

[nitrorocket]

Anyone????

[bink]

So what do I do for weather temp changes changing my AFR at WOT? What exact tables do I have to re-enable or change? I want to be able to drive the car whenever I want and not have to constantly manually change my VE map to compensate for the weather. Help!

The car is a monster. I ran to 13 psi yesterday and the car will spin the tires from any speed at a roll. Even at 100 mph! I should be putting down about 700-750 rwhp right now. I cannot even explain how much power the car has under boost. The difference between 9 psi and 13 psi feels like double!


Hehehe... :lol:
Spooky Fun!!!

One of the guys on LS1Tech stated that his supercharger setup was done and asked what he should be looking for?? NoGo told him, "Tire Sales". FWIW.


Running that much boost I can't imagine atmospheric would have much effect on your AFR. I hope one of the Boost Gurus will chime in with the correct answer!! :D

Cheers,
joel

[GMPX]

What sort of error are we talking?, 0.5 AFR, 0.2AFR, 2AFR?.
We have been testing an AFR IAT correction table recently.

Cheers,
Ross

[Black02SS]

We have been testing an AFR IAT correction table recently.

Cheers,
Ross

Oh you have to give me some insight on this table. I have needed something like this all summer!!

[Tordne]

We have been testing an AFR IAT correction table recently.

OK, you got my attention too!!!

[GMPX]

We have been testing a new IAT VE multiplier table, basically to compensate for the problem some blown cars are seeing with this AFR error when the intake temp is hot.
Seems to be working fine, but it will involve me modifying the V3 O.S's again, it's not a simple change either :cry: I also plan to add in the ability to use a spare output on the PCM to switch 'something'.
For you guys all you will do is flash in an updated V3 and populate the new table and that's it, nothing else will need to change.
I hope to get onto that after SEMA (Like the other 100 things!!).

Cheers,
Ross

P.S - I feel so graphically inferior with the two posts above.

[Black02SS]

We have been testing a new IAT VE multiplier table, basically to compensate for the problem some blown cars are seeing with this AFR error when the intake temp is hot.
Seems to be working fine, but it will involve me modifying the V3 O.S's again, it's not a simple change either :cry: I also plan to add in the ability to use a spare output on the PCM to switch 'something'.
For you guys all you will do is flash in an updated V3 and populate the new table and that's it, nothing else will need to change.
I hope to get onto that after SEMA (Like the other 100 things!!).

Cheers,
Ross

P.S - I feel so graphically inferior with the two posts above.

Sounds great Ross!! If you had any spare time, maybe you could have made one yourself. ;)

[VortechC5]

This sounds like a great addition! It will really help people like me who live in a place where it can (literally) be 80 degrees one day and 30 the next day.

[GMPX]

This sounds like a great addition! It will really help people like me who live in a place where it can (literally) be 80 degrees one day and 30 the next day.

In the meantime, take the car to San Diego, isn't the forecast.....fine, fine, and fine 365 days a year :)

Depending on the work load after SEMA I hope to have all the V3's updated by the end of November.

Cheers,
Ross

[joecar]

Yup, SoCal is fine all year round (...one time there was this wet stuff dripping fro the sky, but I didn't know what is was...).
:D

[VortechC5]

Then I'd have to deal with the California smog police...

Mark



This sounds like a great addition! It will really help people like me who live in a place where it can (literally) be 80 degrees one day and 30 the next day.

In the meantime, take the car to San Diego, isn't the forecast.....fine, fine, and fine 365 days a year :)

Cheers,
Ross

[nitrorocket]

From an 80 degree temp to a 50 I noticed my wot afr raised from about 11.2:1 to 11.7:1 afr. That is alot at a 700-800 rwhp level. This could cause serious problems.

So what should I do then?

What do I do with part throttle. can I still run closed loop in 1 bar ranger to 105 kpa? What do I need to change back to run this after my SD tune??

[QUICKSILVER2002]

From an 80 degree temp to a 50 I noticed my wot afr raised from about 11.2:1 to 11.7:1 afr. That is alot at a 700-800 rwhp level. This could cause serious problems.

So what should I do then?

What do I do with part throttle. can I still run closed loop in 1 bar ranger to 105 kpa? What do I need to change back to run this after my SD tune??

Are you sure that your IAT sensor is working/positioned properly. I have not not had enough time with SD to see what major temp changes will do to it, but I don't expect any problems

The only other suggestion I have is to just keep it on the safe side (tune for the cold nights).

[GMPX]

The other thing you can do is enable PE mode above a certain MAP threshold and use the existing IAT P.E multiplier table.

Cheers,
Ross

[nitrorocket]

Does it auto adjust for IAT's??

Could someone PLEASE quickly explain how my system should be setup to run as "closed loop" as possible, and is there anything that will compensate the 3 bar boost tables for temp changes?

Please help. There is no info on this. I have nowhere else to turn!

Ross or someone.... I am praying you can help get me setup. Maybe then you can add a little something to the tutorial maybe for the "unknown 3 bar"

[QUICKSILVER2002]

Does it auto adjust for IAT's??

Could someone PLEASE quickly explain how my system should be setup to run as "closed loop" as possible, and is there anything that will compensate the 3 bar boost tables for temp changes?

Please help. There is no info on this. I have nowhere else to turn!

Go read my post here: http://www.efilive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2367

It will show you how IAT is part of the basic airflow calc in SD.
There is however one other oddball thing about it and I can't remember the details. It somehow combines IAT and ECT to come up with temp value, but IAT is generally what it uses. There is some type of scalar were it combines the two.

Have you logged data and verified that your IATs and ECTs are realistic?

There is no such thing as closed loop at WOT (in this PCM). So it sounds like you are looking for a solution that does not exist.

If the base calcs are not giving you what you need you will have to experiment with the PE IAT table and figure out values that will keep your AFs in line. I think you're expecting too much if you want 100% repeatability on your AF ratios. Minor swings are just expected.

I would give you #s… but I have not seen major temp changes yet.

[GMPX]

There is no such thing as closed loop at WOT (in this PCM). So it sounds like you are looking for a solution that does not exist.

That's about it, this is why we have been testing the new IAT AFR correction table. Nitro, you will find the AFR will come into line if you command 14.63:1 AFR because the STFT takes care of that.
But as was mentioned above, nothing is done for WOT.
In fact I think it was only in 2001+ that GM added the PE IAT table so they were probably awaer of the problem.
What O.S version are you running?, I can get something over to you with the IAT AFR correction table. Not all O.S's are done yet, so it may take a day or so.
ross@efilive.com

Cheers,
Ross

[bink]

There is no such thing as closed loop at WOT (in this PCM). So it sounds like you are looking for a solution that does not exist.

What O.S version are you running?, I can get something over to you with the IAT AFR correction table. Not all O.S's are done yet, so it may take a day or so.
ross@efilive.com

Cheers,
Ross


:mrgreen: AMAZING! :mrgreen:

[nitrorocket]

I have a commanded 14.63 like the tutorial said. I have 11.2:1 at 105 kpa and I have it transition for a few columns before it goes back down to 14.63 from 105 kpa. So if I renable STFT, I will have closed loop? up to what RPM? Can I enable LTFT?

I run the custom 2002 O.S.

What do I change to renable the STFT? I want to make sure I do it right.

[GMPX]

I have a commanded 14.63 like the tutorial said. I have 11.2:1 at 105 kpa and I have it transition for a few columns before it goes back down to 14.63 from 105 kpa. So if I renable STFT, I will have closed loop?.

If you are commanding 14.63 you should have STFT. Have you logged the NBO2 sensors?



up to what RPM?

It is not RPM dependent, it is all based on table B3647.



Can I enable LTFT?

No you cannot, but with the VE dialed in and STFT there is no need.



I run the custom 2002 O.S.



Which one?, there is two.

Cheers,
Ross

[nitrorocket]

I will have to fire up my laptop later and look what O.S. I am running. I forgot.

Why cant I renable closed loop? I realize it will not work fot the boost VE table, but would'not it run closed loop for the main VE table up to 105 KPA? Do the STFT's only work at idle?

Right now I have no STFT as far as I know. What do I change to enable it? What I have in the VE is what it is running at I think.

What should IDLE afr be??

[nitrorocket]

I believe my O.S. Is 02020003. I think an IAT version of table B3647 would be the key. BUT... how would you go about calibrating something like that?

I am still not clear on the STFT. I found where to enable it, and it is adding and subtracting. What I am not clear on is up to what point or rpm on the VE map will it correct to the commanded afr table?

[QUICKSILVER2002]

I believe my O.S. Is 02020003. I think an IAT version of table B3647 would be the key. BUT... how would you go about calibrating something like that?

I am still not clear on the STFT. I found where to enable it, and it is adding and subtracting. What I am not clear on is up to what point or rpm on the VE map will it correct to the commanded afr table?

STFT does not correct for anything but 14.7 AFR. That is all the narrowband sensor can really deal with.

This is why the custom os does STFT when the EQ is 1.0 (14.63 AFR). It would also drop out of STFT into full open loop if you hit Power Enrichment mode. STFT is basically for cruise and idle (that is it).