OLSD feels awesome.. issue down low.

[waterbug1999]

Man, I got it in OLSD and the cars pulls pretty damn hard! AF is low to mid 12's (can lean it out some) at WOT and everything else is upper 14's AF, driveability is the best its ever been..

But, when coming to a stop/slowing down for a stop the cars RPM will dive to a tad above it stalls, then catch itself and come back to a nice purr after a few attempts.. Any tables I can tweak/adjust to help this??

[Tordne]

Throttle cracker and follower will be your salvation ;)

[waterbug1999]

Throttle cracker and follower will be your salvation ;)

thanks...


I smoothed out the lower portion of the airflow by some clicks..

Before:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/tc.jpg

After:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/tc1.jpg


I saw I had no decay rate (i think we changed this way back when and forgot we had changed it), so I changed that.

Before:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/idle.jpg

After:

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/idle1.jpg

It seemed to have help, but I think its too much because the car pushes at 1500 rpm until I almost get to a stop then the RPM's come down to an idle and its fine.

So, you think If I up this to say 20 mph or so that it would fix it?

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/speed.jpg

[drdarthinvader]

one other way to get good acceleration which i use is to keep the throttle cracker std settings and use throttle follower the as an accelerator pump. you can monitor the progression through scan -iac steps ...max is 199 also if you increase t.f you must increase the decay by the same percentage

[waterbug1999]

one other way to get good acceleration which i use is to keep the throttle cracker std settings and use throttle follower the as an accelerator pump. you can monitor the progression through scan -iac steps ...max is 199 also if you increase t.f you must increase the decay by the same percentage

Which graphs you talking about, B4321?

[SSpdDmon]

I always say - while the car is in motion, throttle cracker is for problems/adjustments you have/need after you've been off the throttle for a few seconds and throttle follower is for while you're in the throttle OR you just got out of it. That's why TC is RPM vs MPH and TF is based on change of TPS%. If you're coasting to a stop and see the RPMs drop at a certain point every time, I'd bump up the throttle cracker a touch where it happens. No need to go changing the thresholds that much. You're just taking one more element of control away from the PCM and it's ability to keep your RPMs in the right spot.

[waterbug1999]

I always say - while the car is in motion, throttle cracker is for problems/adjustments you have/need after you've been off the throttle for a few seconds and throttle follower is for while you're in the throttle OR you just got out of it. That's why TC is RPM vs MPH and TF is based on change of TPS%. If you're coasting to a stop and see the RPMs drop at a certain point every time, I'd bump up the throttle cracker a touch where it happens. No need to go changing the thresholds that much. You're just taking one more element of control away from the PCM and it's ability to keep your RPMs in the right spot.

When coming to a stop (just slowing down), the car is just ideling (and idles fine) till I get to ~10MPH or so then the RPMS go jumping around till I stop, then it cathes itself and its all good..

So, for that your saying I should go in the TF and not the TC?

[SSpdDmon]

When coming to a stop (just slowing down), the car is just ideling (and idles fine) till I get to ~10MPH or so then the RPMS go jumping around till I stop, then it cathes itself and its all good..

So, for that your saying I should go in the TF and not the TC?
No - more like return your B4311/B4312 back to stock and try fixing the problem in the throttle cracker airflow values (B4309) based on the speed/RPM that you experience the problem. Again - TC is for off-throttle airflow adjustments while the car is moving. TF is for "cushioning" on-throttle and throttle transition behaviors.

See my recent post about idle mode (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?p=100514#post100514) to get a little better understanding of what's going on once you stop. If you take that into consideration, it becomes a bit more clear that raising the B4311/B4312 isn't the solution. Doing that only removes an element of contorl.

[waterbug1999]

I do not know what the stock settings where... The tune was messed up from the tuner way back when, on B4313 they were all 0 and B4312 & B4311 were set at 412.

I copied the #'s (for B4313 and B4312/B4311) from some other tunes and started there..

Only thing I changed was B4309 a little down low.

[SSpdDmon]

What OS are you running? I assume it's for the car in your sig.?.? I might have a stock file that you can load as a "compare" file. Then, you can see what the original values were.

[waterbug1999]

What OS are you running? I assume it's for the car in your sig.?.? I might have a stock file that you can load as a "compare" file. Then, you can see what the original values were.

Yea, its for my 99 TA.

[SSpdDmon]

Ok - but what's the OS #? It's right next to your VIN when you open the .tun file.

A4 or M6?

[waterbug1999]

Ok - but what's the OS #? It's right next to your VIN when you open the .tun file.

A4 or M6?

Its an A4... Here is the 0S # 09373372

[SSpdDmon]

Its an A4... Here is the 0S # 09373372
Here's the stock file I have for that OS.

[waterbug1999]

Hhmm... B4313 is still 0 all the way down.

[SSpdDmon]

Hhmm... B4313 is still 0 all the way down.

That's because cracker is designed to work like an on/off switch based on the MPH thresholds. I've never had to adjust 4313 and honestly, I don't know if it'd do any good to try. Give my suggestions above and in the other thread I mentioned a try. I'm fairly certain it'll get you on the right path. :)

[waterbug1999]

Ill try it, Thanks.

[waterbug1999]

Whats your take on a cold start... Since I started running in OLSD, it will surge up and down for about a minute or two (im assuming because its warming up) then be fine.. So, what table am I looking for to tweak?

Im sure its something to do with engine temps, just not sure what table..

[SSpdDmon]

First priority is to try and make sure B4307 is in line. Then you can try adding some extra airflow in B4343 to aid startup temporarily (if necessary). One other thing to consider is to look at the timing tables that might be affected during startup. Some factory settings will pull timing right after you crank it up. That can pose a problem if it's too much being pulled.

[waterbug1999]

First priority is to try and make sure B4307 is in line. Then you can try adding some extra airflow in B4343 to aid startup temporarily (if necessary). One other thing to consider is to look at the timing tables that might be affected during startup. Some factory settings will pull timing right after you crank it up. That can pose a problem if it's too much being pulled.

Will do.. After comparing it to the stock tune you posted, you can see teh difference. Ill put it back to stock and see if it helps/fix's the situation.


Mine

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/b4307.jpg


Stock tune you posted

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/b4307stock.jpg

[SSpdDmon]

Well, hold up a second now. I never said put Desired Airflow back to stock. Doing that isn't going to solve any problems. But, it sure will create a bigger one...that car won't likely idle at all with the stock Desired Airflow table. I'd suggest you go back and carefully read what I have posted.

Tuning isn't about just making a change because "someone told you so". You need to try to understand why you're making that change and better yet, make the change based on data. If you don't understand the why...you need to post up and ask. :)

What I had originally suggested was that you return your throttle cracker thresholds back to stock (you had them set at ~10mph). The reason why I suggested this was because you said you had issues under 10mph when coasting to a stop. What I think is happening is, the airflow being provided by the cracker is turning off at 10mph. Between then and 2mph, nothing is being done to compensate for the change. Once you're below 2mph, the adaptive idle controls take over and smooth everything out. So by returning the TC thresholds back to stock, you restore the element of control that's missing. This will allow you to adjust the throttle cracker airflow values (based on MPH & RPM data) to stop the problem from occuring. ;)

[waterbug1999]

Yea, I think I will put the desired airflow where it was at and maybe add some around the temps the car normally sees (its only a summer car) and see if that helps on the cold start up surging..

Ill return B4313 back to 0 and see if just adding a little air down low on B4309 alone will help. Going to leave B4311/B4312 at 10/9 and see how it works. Ill get back to ya and let you know how it worked out this weekend when I can get to the car. Thanks again.

[mr.prick]

How about logging RAFIG and adding it to {B4307}

[waterbug1999]

I dont understand RAFIG. I barely understood what to do with the AutoVE mapping.

[hquick]

Here's a link to an excellent idle tuning guide SSPDMON put together.
RAFIG/RAFPN are explained within.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4661&highlight=rafig

[SSpdDmon]

Here's a link to an excellent idle tuning guide SSPDMON put together.
RAFIG/RAFPN are explained within.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4661&highlight=rafig
Thanks... :D

Also some here: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?p=100514#post100514
and here: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?p=100609#post100609

[waterbug1999]

well, I got the coming to a stop idle problem issue and it stays pretty smooth when I stop.. So, thats good.

Cold start, not so good. It cranked over one time and then dies, next crank it started, this was with some changing of the "desired air flow".. So, since it didnt work I put it back to where it was.

Any other suggestions to try for cold start issueS?

[LS1_Dragster]

I've found on the 3 cars I've done it's more with fuel then air. It can be overly rich or even lean. Lean it wont start well unless you give it gas, this doesnt start because of more air but because the MAP changes. If it starts and chugs even giving it gas it's too rich.

How about posting your tune? AND the log when it died.

[waterbug1999]

I've found on the 3 cars I've done it's more with fuel then air. It can be overly rich or even lean. Lean it wont start well unless you give it gas, this doesnt start because of more air but because the MAP changes. If it starts and chugs even giving it gas it's too rich.

How about posting your tune? AND the log when it died.

I didnt log it.. Ill try it tomorrow.... I will say this, when the WB02 warms up and on a cold start, it reads lean till till it warms up. Just saying that because I would say im lean on cold start and not rich due to what the WB02 reads. Im just not sure what to change... Maybe take out some "desired air flow"?

[LS1_Dragster]

No, dont worry about the air yet, lets get you more fuel.

What is your A0008

And B3632

Post your tune!

[mr.prick]

B3632 won't help cold start with OLSD.
Lower B3605 to richen up at cold start.
The problem with tuning in OLSD is that VE will be lower than it would in CL,
that is why LTFTs will be positive once they're re-enabled.

Don't bother adjusting B4307 when AFR is overly lean or rich.

[drdarthinvader]

interpolate your ve while cranking (b0102) which is a good tool.

[LS1_Dragster]

B3632 won't help cold start with OLSD.
Lower B3605 to richen up at cold start.
The problem with tuning in OLSD is that VE will be lower than it would in CL,
that is why LTFTs will be positive once they're re-enabled.

Don't bother adjusting B4307 when AFR is overly lean or rich.

What?? Why does it work for my 3 cars???

[mr.prick]

I guess I'm special or unfortunate because it never did anything but lower the commanded AFR
and not actual AFR for me, only lowering B3605 dropped AFR at cold start in OLSD.
It might have to do with the OS, but for me B3632 did nothing even with RTACS.

[LS1_Dragster]

It's most likely because there are so many OS versions and just because I'm starting to understand mine doesn't mean I can help with the other ones! I have to keep remembering they all behave differently.

[waterbug1999]

No, dont worry about the air yet, lets get you more fuel.

What is your A0008

And B3632

Post your tune!

Here is the current tune. Im getting ready to go start it up, ill log it.

[waterbug1999]

forgot to paste tune.

[waterbug1999]

B3632 won't help cold start with OLSD.
Lower B3605 to richen up at cold start.
The problem with tuning in OLSD is that VE will be lower than it would in CL,
that is why LTFTs will be positive once they're re-enabled.

Don't bother adjusting B4307 when AFR is overly lean or rich.

You can see where it would be at during a cold start... But, its off by ~5 or 6 points (commanded is 13/14 and actual is 18/19 on the AF gauge). So, if it works in linear, I would have to bump it down to be commanded around 8 or 9.

I followed the tutorial, im thinking that it says to add 15% in B0101, maybe I can change that to -10% down low to richen it up??? Does it use that table during start?

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/Untitled-3.jpg

[waterbug1999]

well, here is the cold start.. it caught and stayed running but still bobbled at the begining.

[mr.prick]

You can see where it would be at during a cold start... But, its off by ~5 or 6 points (commanded is 13/14 and actual is 18/19 on the AF gauge). So, if it works in linear, I would have to bump it down to be commanded around 8 or 9.
If you do change B3605, don't use straight BEN factor.
Subtract 1.00 until it richens up, you don't need to go too rich for cold start.


I followed the tutorial, im thinking that it says to add 15% in B0101, maybe I can change that to -10% down low to richen it up??? Does it use that table during start?
This will lean you out.
In OLSD you will need more in the VE table for colder ECT and
as the engine warms up you will need less.

This is why I use LTFTs.
When LTFTs are 0% to -5% the VE table will have higher values so
when in OL AFR will be richer, no lean cold starts.

Example:
OLSD @ 200°F ECT & IAT 90°F will need x.xx in VE but
100°F ECT & 60°F IAT will need more and will progressively need less as
ECT & IAT get higher.
Even with ECT at normal/steady operating range,
IAT will have an impact on fueling.
High IAT = higher AFR.
For me over 96°F AFR will start to lean out in OL.
There are IAT & ECT blending tables but they are scaled by the MAF.

[waterbug1999]

If you do change B3605, don't use straight BEN factor.
Subtract 1.00 until it richens up, you don't need to go too rich for cold start.

This will lean you out.
In OLSD you will need more in the VE table for colder ECT and
as the engine warms up you will need less.

This is why I use LTFTs.
When LTFTs are 0% to -5% the VE table will have higher values so
when in OL AFR will be richer, no lean cold starts.

Example:
OLSD @ 200°F ECT & IAT 90°F will need x.xx in VE but
100°F ECT & 60°F IAT will need more and will progressively need less as
ECT & IAT get higher.
Even with ECT at normal/steady operating range,
IAT will have an impact on fueling.
High IAT = higher AFR.
For me over 96°F AFR will start to lean out in OL.
There are IAT & ECT blending tables but they are scaled by the MAF.



I didnt change b3605..

I did add 8% on the main ve on the highlighted part when i looked at the log, it didnt do anything.

[LS1_Dragster]

I think your VE table is not right, all my cars have a nice smooth numbers and your is not. I think you are very lean in your table and are having to make it up elsewhere.

Do you have a log from start to 180 degrees just sitting and idling? No revs no nothing, just idling. Also, leave your key on for 30 seconds or so for your wideband O2 to warm up prior to starting it.

Please get me a log from cold to hot at idle.

[LS1_Dragster]

Also, what cam, heads, injectors and fuel pressure?

[waterbug1999]

Also, what cam, heads, injectors and fuel pressure?

59cc Dart 205's, 234/242 .605 114, FAST 36'ers and fuel pressure is at 60psi...

[LS1_Dragster]

I have a tune from my dragster that's real close, I'm going to make some changes for you and upload. You can try it for shits and giggles.....

[waterbug1999]

I think your VE table is not right, all my cars have a nice smooth numbers and your is not. I think you are very lean in your table and are having to make it up elsewhere.

Do you have a log from start to 180 degrees just sitting and idling? No revs no nothing, just idling. Also, leave your key on for 30 seconds or so for your wideband O2 to warm up prior to starting it.

Please get me a log from cold to hot at idle.

here is the log I just ran for ya... The WB02 will just reset when i start it so i get that messed up AF until it starts going..

not completly a cold start do to earlier tries, but it still surged a little upon the inital start...

[waterbug1999]

I think your VE table is not right, all my cars have a nice smooth numbers and your is not. I think you are very lean in your table and are having to make it up elsewhere.

Do you have a log from start to 180 degrees just sitting and idling? No revs no nothing, just idling. Also, leave your key on for 30 seconds or so for your wideband O2 to warm up prior to starting it.

Please get me a log from cold to hot at idle.

when I went speed density, I logged about an hours worth to get the ve tables more accurate because I yanked the MAF so i did i needed to for the extra air flow...

Thats the numbers I got so I didnt smooth anything.

[LS1_Dragster]

Try this tune. If your WBO2 is correct you are really lean! I'm sure that it wont be ideal and in fact may be terrible but since our engines are similar and our injectors are identical except I run less pressure it should work somewhat.

How come you dont upgrade to the CO3??

Are you still running OLSD or what?

[waterbug1999]

Try this tune. If your WBO2 is correct you are really lean! I'm sure that it wont be ideal and in fact may be terrible but since our engines are similar and our injectors are identical except I run less pressure it should work somewhat.

How come you dont upgrade to the CO3??

Are you still running OLSD or what?

yep, I liked it when I was logging in OLSD (for the mainve tables), so I left it the way it is.. Yanked the MAF, changed a few things and it runs better then it ever has.

[waterbug1999]

Try this tune. If your WBO2 is correct you are really lean! I'm sure that it wont be ideal and in fact may be terrible but since our engines are similar and our injectors are identical except I run less pressure it should work somewhat.

How come you dont upgrade to the CO3??

Are you still running OLSD or what?

did you take my tune and tweak it or is this a whole difffernt one that will mess up the trans and everything else?

[LS1_Dragster]

just changed a few things, it's still your old tune. You can always go back to yours of course...

[waterbug1999]

just changed a few things, it's still your old tune. You can always go back to yours of course...

its cool. i was just wondering.

Hey, any pics of your car?

[LS1_Dragster]

It a dragster....

http://www.horsepowerracing.com/dragster_m.jpg

[waterbug1999]

nice.. is it stock ci? Thats hauling!

[LS1_Dragster]

Yes, pulled it from the wrecking yard, added heads, cam and intake and off to the races! Has 72K Miles on it. With our DA averaging 7500 feet, I would love to see what it would do at sea level!

[waterbug1999]

Damn.. it must weigh 1000 lbs... thats awesome running upper 8's with stock ci.

[LS1_Dragster]

Actually it's heavy for a dragster, run 2 batteries and it's an old '94 design. I havent weighed it yet but I'm estimating 1600 to 1650lbs.

[waterbug1999]

Nice...

I just fixed my N20 bug (been chasing it for over a year now) and im itching to go to the track. Im hoping for a low 10, still stock bottom end.

[joecar]

Jody, what did you find...?

[waterbug1999]

Jody, what did you find...?

I wasnt thinking when I did the wireing.. I had too small of wires for everything, so I re-ran all with 12g wire and she works.

[waterbug1999]

Try this tune. If your WBO2 is correct you are really lean! I'm sure that it wont be ideal and in fact may be terrible but since our engines are similar and our injectors are identical except I run less pressure it should work somewhat.

How come you dont upgrade to the CO3??

Are you still running OLSD or what?


How do you upgrade to C03?

[mr.prick]

Read the Custom OS Upgrade Tutorial.pdf in
C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Doc or download it (http://download.efilive.com/Tutorials/PDF/Custom%20OS%20Upgrade%20Tutorial.pdf)

[waterbug1999]

Read the Custom OS Upgrade Tutorial.pdf in
C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Doc or download it (http://download.efilive.com/Tutorials/PDF/Custom%20OS%20Upgrade%20Tutorial.pdf)

Thanks..


Have you tried adjusting B3702 to adjust for lean cold start??

[waterbug1999]

So, right off the bat I see that my 99 OS # (09373372) is not on there..... And reading briefly thru it I see its more for FI cars. So, it prolly wouldnt be worth it to upgrade the OS then would it?

[mr.prick]

You would use one for a newer OS.

[waterbug1999]

You would use one for a newer OS.

I read that.. and if im reading it right, I would have to manally copy/paste everything over correct?

[mr.prick]

Thanks..


Have you tried adjusting B3702 to adjust for lean cold start??
No I haven't, but you can use B3701 :secret:
Like I said, drop B3605 or use CLSD so the VE table will have higher values.
Higher values at cold start will get AFR in a good place while in OL
and once CL kicks in O2's will do the rest.

[waterbug1999]

No I haven't, but you can use B3701 :secret:
Like I said, drop B3605 or use CLSD so the VE table will have higher values.
Higher values at cold start will get AFR in a good place while in OL
and once CL kicks in O2's will do the rest.

I dont see how B3701 would work.. im watching my AF start at at ~18 then get richer when the car warms up. I looked at the table in B3702 and compared it to the scan, it looks like it does follow that line (below). I guess it wont hurt to try.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/untitled-4.jpg


If I were to adjust the few cells in the (b3605) ve table to for a cold start up at idle, in my mind it would be really rich once the car warms up. Rather the car is hot or cold it still uses the same cell's does it not?

[mr.prick]

The injector table might work depending on your injectors,
I "played" with the all when I had the Lucas 42lbs and I could not get them
to act right.

B3605 may not need to be dropped by straight BEN try X%.
I use to have a "cold start OLSD" tune, with higher VE values in the cold start idle areas.
After the car warmed up I would download the tune I was using.
Not practical but it worked.
I then bought an RR and didn't have to worry about lean cold starts.
I then found out you can drop the AFR in B3605 to prevent LCS.
I have used B3701 w/RTACS and it will actually work like B0101 w/RTACS, perfect BENs.

[waterbug1999]

Well, hittin the track tomorrow... Hope the SD tune picks up some ET.

[joecar]

Have fun, post your time slips.

[waterbug1999]

Have fun, post your time slips.

DRKPHX came over to help out with some tuning.. He was surprised how the SD tune feels..

We did some WOT pulls on the hwy eariler, he was impressed.. then we realized I was only at 87% WOT, the tb cable came loose. lol

I threw in the 125 shot so if the track can hold, it should be a good day.

[hquick]

Just out of curiosity....has anyone logged a stock standard vehicle from cold start?
Curious as to the AFR's.

[Aloicious]

Just out of curiosity....has anyone logged a stock standard vehicle from cold start?
Curious as to the AFR's.

well....I don't know if I'd call it a standard vehicle, because it didn't come that way. but I've logged before and after swapping from my 4L60e to T56. I didn't notice much of a difference with the cold AFR's. but this wasn't stock etiher.

[waterbug1999]

well... I didnt even make it to the track. I started it up this morning and heard this and decided not to go. I tore apart the rockers, p-rods and drained the oil and everything.. No puked bearings, no medal shavings and no bent p-rods. Here is the vid, what you think? Im suspecting a spun bearing or a collapsed lifter.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/th_100_1360.jpg (http://s600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/?action=view&current=100_1360.flv)

[ssvolvo]

Sounds deep! You might have to change your signature from "stock bottom end" to just: "The End"

Sorry for yhe joke!

[waterbug1999]

lol...

[mr.prick]

It sounds like it could be a rod knocking. :shock:
Does it go away or lessen after the engine is warm?

[waterbug1999]

seems like it gets louder when it warms up...

[joecar]

Ouch...

Also, additionally:
Are you sure that the crank pulley/balancer is ok...?
What about the flexplate and/or TC bolts...?
Are all cylinders firing (check if all header primaries are equally hot)...?

Have you tried a compression test and a leakdown test...?

[waterbug1999]

Ouch...

Also, additionally:
Are you sure that the crank pulley/balancer is ok...?
What about the flexplate and/or TCC bolts...?
Are all cylinders firing (check if all header primaries are equally hot)...?

Have you tried a compression test and a leakdown test...?

Only thing I did was tear off the rockers and pulled the p-rods out.. All looked good and i changed the oil to see if anything was inside the pan and it looked fine.

Ill look at the pulley/balancer...

I can hear it under the car.. ill look at the TC bolts.

[waterbug1999]

verter bolts and flywheel are fine..

the balancer/crank pulley looked fine to me, dont know what i would be looking for though.

[joecar]

If those were loose there would be a similar noise.

[ssvolvo]

A very fast way to diagnose the noise would be by disabling one cylinder at a time while idling the engine.

Either by pulling each injector connector or with DVT (F12) in the scan tool.

If a rod/bearing is the origin of the noise then when the noisy cylinder is disabled the noise will stop.

John

[joecar]

+1

That's good strategy... with an F-body it may be easier to do it with DVT.

[waterbug1999]

A very fast way to diagnose the noise would be by disabling one cylinder at a time while idling the engine.

Either by pulling each injector connector or with DVT (F12) in the scan tool.

If a rod/bearing is the origin of the noise then when the noisy cylinder is disabled the noise will stop.

John

i tired that, the noist still was there no matter what cylinder I turned off..

Im thinking I have a bent valve somewhere, im going to be doing a compression test to see if I can narrow it down to a certain cylinder or a certain side and save some work. I know what the PSI was last year so ill know if anything is low.

[joecar]

Jody, let us know how it goes (post pics if you can).

[waterbug1999]

I did a compression test... I knew something was up on the driver side, here are all 8 cylinders.

1 = 240 2 = 210
3 = 180 4 = 210
5 = 185 6 = 200
7 = 160 8 = 210 PSI

looks like the driver side haed has the damage, i guess ill pull it and see how bad. Hopefully its not terminal.

[waterbug1999]

well, here is what I found and I am assuming somehow its causing the "clank" "clankity" "clank" noise I was hearing..

Im down for now, but will be back next year. Thanks for everyones help.


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/piston005.jpg

[SSpdDmon]

ouch...

[waterbug1999]

ouch...

kind of weird how it broke off by the relief I made... Looks like to me it just broke off, the valves look fine so I dont think nothing made contact.

[joecar]

+1 ouch.

[ScarabEpic22]

+2 OUCH!! So part of the piston itself broke off? Holy crap man!

Well start saving and get ready for next year!

[joecar]

Do you have a log of when it happened...?

[waterbug1999]

Do you have a log of when it happened...?

Thats the thing, when we got back the car sounded normal from friday evenings WOT log.. I heard it saturday morning when I pulled the car out of the garage to go to the track.

I do have the log from Friday night though, its at home so i will post it later on.

[joecar]

Yes, post Friday night's log.

[waterbug1999]

well, its out and waiting.

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/carpics010.jpg


http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt85/waterbug199/carpics012.jpg

[projectblackbird]

question! how can everyone else get killer times out of a small set up and i spent all kind of money in mine with tuninng and dyno time and it still won't get out of its own way?

[waterbug1999]

question! how can everyone else get killer times out of a small set up and i spent all kind of money in mine with tuninng and dyno time and it still won't get out of its own way?

well, whats your set up?? I know my car had a mid to low 10 in it, it was running strong before #7 ringland fell apart.

[projectblackbird]

its a 98 ws6! i added a 234/248 cam, long tube headers, y-pipe, and some head work and a respected tuner did the tune! after all that the car is still as slow as it was with the stock motor with 171k on it. as for tuning my self, i brand new !

[waterbug1999]

its a 98 ws6! i added a 234/248 cam, long tube headers, y-pipe, and some head work and a respected tuner did the tune! after all that the car is still as slow as it was with the stock motor with 171k on it. as for tuning my self, i brand new !

Are you refering to being as slow as stock towards an ET at a track or seat of the pants slow?

Have any logs?

[projectblackbird]

13.83 et on stock setup with 171k
13.81 on new setup with
i don't know much about tuning yet, i'm just started learnig efi live! i will log some tomorrow at the track and will be most happy to pull the entire tune out for a review

[waterbug1999]

You would have had to do some tuning to get teh big cam to run/idle.

You an auto or a manual?? You have to give some details on your set up, and a little history.

[projectblackbird]

i had a respected tuner to get it to idle and drive but it won't go fast and me and him bumped heads so i decided to go off on a limb and learn for myself!
234/248 comp cam
113 ls
595/605 lift
ls6 intake
long tubes
y-pipe
3.73 gears
new 4l60e
3600 yank

[projectblackbird]

oh, and cnc head work

[waterbug1999]

yea, there shouldnt be any reason why you cant get it into the low 12's/high 11's.

[SSpdDmon]

question! how can everyone else get killer times out of a small set up and i spent all kind of money in mine with tuninng and dyno time and it still won't get out of its own way?
Maybe it's not an issue with the tune. Where did he get the car to perform on the dyno (AFR & Spark wise)? What numbers did it make? Have you looked for a mechanical issue (i.e. Compression test)?

[projectblackbird]

well the tuner said his tune was dead on, but i disagree. i think he has gotten a lot of mad customers because of blown or hurt engines and he's tuning real safe.

[joecar]

Thanks for the pics... keep us updated.