2-3 bar MAP support?

[Blackbird]

will flashscan support this as the new HP Tuners product is?

thanks!

[GMPX]

From what HPT have indicated it appears they have resized the VE table (maybe others) to cope with the extended kPa the 2bar MAP will output and at the same time kept the resolution of 5kPa steps upto 200kPa (I read it that way anyway, I might be wrong).
If we do something similar it would certainly not be happening in the next month or two, there is a fair amount of recoding to be done in the PCM (over 30 or so operating systems), we will be busy enough with our new product that just hit the streets and working on the LS2. In the meantime...........

........ did you know you can already run a 2bar map on the unmodified factory programs without it going pig rich after a few starts?.

Cheers,
Ross

[Earl H]

Can you post more on this (using 2 bar map sensor with stock PCM)?...as in how to..

Btw, HPTuners 3 bar map tuning is only in the beta testing stage...with a release that is probably 6 mos. away. Having a turbocharged Z06, running 16psi, this feature is very appealing to me. I ordered EFILive anyway, because of my comfort level with your scanning software. I hope that you guys offer this feature some time in the near future.

Btw, I am happy that you are working on LS2 tuning. I plan on purchasing an '06 Z06, that will receiving a set of turbos as soon as I take delivery, well that depends on the availability of tuning software...gotta tune it somehow. :D

[GMPX]

Can you post more on this (using 2 bar map sensor with stock PCM)?...as in how to..

Earl,
To be honest we have only ever done this on our local cars (without ETC and without MAF sensors fitted and no smog tests), I have no idea how it would affect a C5 and your tough emissions tests.
There is a few drawbacks, all MAP values are halved, still not as bad as running a 1bar sensor and maxing out the MAF.
All the calibration variables to set this up will be in the Editor.
Though some might say this method is cheating and technically not correct I would simply offer them to drive the cars that have been tuned using this method and it might just change thier minds with some pushing near 600HP at the wheels and they start, idle and drive just fine.
Of course making those sort of numbers isn't going to happen with the factory injectors and pump, so there is still more than just the cals to mess with.



Btw, I am happy that you are working on LS2 tuning. I plan on purchasing an '06 Z06, that will receiving a set of turbos as soon as I take delivery, well that depends on the availability of tuning software...gotta tune is somehow. :D

Yes they will have to be tuned. From where we are at so far with them GM appear to have almost done a clean slate re-write of the code :( , just means more late nights for everybody.

Cheers,
Ross

[ntae]

3 bar is over 40 psi that is a lot of boost , is there cars running around the world with this type of boost ?

geoff

[wait4me]

3 bar. i dont think if you are needing one you would even worry about having a stock computer system.. lol, kinda crazy, yes it can be done, yes it will work in the future im sure, but kinda overboard for a street car, and 97 percent of the blower cars out there. it is 0 to 30 lbs i think, a two bar is 15 vac to 15 boost, and a 1 bar is 30 to 0 vac lbs.

so most would only need a two bar, at the most, and it can be done now with what we have, you just scale all the tables in half and then add what you want on the other half for the needed fuel ect..

the more bars you use the less resolution you get for regular driving and idling, ect. so you lose some drivability to a point, even though going mafless you get the same crappy resolution if on a 98 to 2000 car. "secondary ve table" ...

sometimes everything is just a gimmic..
everything can be done already,
everything that sounds like a good idea sometimes is not as good as it sounds.

[Earl H]

3 bar. i dont think if you are needing one you would even worry about having a stock computer system.. lol, kinda crazy, yes it can be done, yes it will work in the future im sure, but kinda overboard for a street car, and 97 percent of the blower cars out there. it is 0 to 30 lbs i think, a two bar is 15 vac to 15 boost, and a 1 bar is 30 to 0 vac lbs.

so most would only need a two bar, at the most, and it can be done now with what we have, you just scale all the tables in half and then add what you want on the other half for the needed fuel ect..

the more bars you use the less resolution you get for regular driving and idling, ect. so you lose some drivability to a point, even though going mafless you get the same crappy resolution if on a 98 to 2000 car. "secondary ve table" ...

sometimes everything is just a gimmic..
everything can be done already,
everything that sounds like a good idea sometimes is not as good as it sounds.
Overboard as defined by who? My car is 95% street, yet I do run 16psi. I don't want to go with an aftermarket computer unit because I would lose things like my guages (and few more things). I love the fact that my stock pcm can be made to handle the levels of power that my car makes and still retains stock-like driveability. Emissions, however aren't a concern in my part of the country. I think very few guys that are running at the hyper-power levels are concerned with emmissions testing.

[Brains]

Indeed, this is a feature I'm looking at very closely.. 3 bar is definitely within grasp on a street car. We're about to install a T76 Q-trim on my girlfriend's daily driver, and while on the "street" pump gas tune I doubt we'll see more than 10-12 psi, on its "aggressive" tune I'm planning on seeing 18 psi and more.

[wait4me]

i think you are missing my point. the most us blower guys need is a 2 bar sensor, not a 3 bar, that can be done with the computer and software we have now, hell, ive had one set up with edit since back in the day..
what i was saying is 97 % of the blower guys run 15 and lower on boost, and that is fine to run with a 2 bar that is possible with our motors pcm, the big dawg motors that are running 20 plus pounds of boost need the 3 bar more, because more than likely the whole range of throtle they are seein g boost therefor, dont need to have any tuning done for vacuum, hence the 3bar output. and are normally wanting to use an aftermarket management unit.
in my oppinion and probably alot of others for you to have the ability to tune the ve for that one more pound of boost is not worth the drivability you loose on the normal driving.. sorry, jes

[Earl H]

i think you are missing my point. the most us blower guys need is a 2 bar sensor, not a 3 bar, that can be done with the computer and software we have now, hell, ive had one set up with edit since back in the day..
what i was saying is 97 % of the blower guys run 15 and lower on boost, and that is fine to run with a 2 bar that is possible with our motors pcm, the big dawg motors that are running 20 plus pounds of boost need the 3 bar more, because more than likely the whole range of throtle they are seein g boost therefor, dont need to have any tuning done for vacuum, hence the 3bar output. and are normally wanting to use an aftermarket management unit.
in my oppinion and probably alot of others for you to have the ability to tune the ve for that one more pound of boost is not worth the drivability you loose on the normal driving.. sorry, jes
There are more FI options than just S/C's (because of your consistent boost patterns, you guys can make do with whats currently avail) ...The 3 Bar option is ideal for turbo setups, guys who run 12psi on the street and 20 psi on the track...

[Drake]

It would be great to see 3bar support of some kind, even mail-order would be better than nothing.

[Blackbird]

so i can literally unplug my stock map plug in the 2 bar, 1/2 my ve table accross the board and I am good to go?

seems to good to be true but if it is it could prevent me from having to jump ship.

let me know guys.

[GMPX]

so i can literally unplug my stock map plug in the 2 bar, 1/2 my ve table accross the board and I am good to go?

seems to good to be true but if it is it could prevent me from having to jump ship.

let me know guys.

Jump ship, dare you suggest it :lol: :lol: oh, you got a 98.......I better be careful.

But seriously, the main problem with the standard (non modified) PCM not coping with a 2bar MAP sensor is the Baro pressure compensation, when you put a 2bar sensor on, the PCM will at first key on (and shut down) see 50-55kPa (varies), it will then adjust the Baro compensation to suit what it thinks is the outside world pressure (55kPa not 100kPa) because the 2bar MAP sensor has HALF the voltage output at 100kPa.
So, the simple solution is to disable the Baro updating, fix the baro presure at 100kPa, disable MAP codes.
This is where the drawbacks come into it, you then have to think in halves, so in the Scantool you will read 70kPa, which is really 140kPa. Remember, the PCM can only allow it's kPa values to go upto 105kPa (unless it has been modified to go higher like what HPT say they will do).
You then need to think about everything that is affected by kPa, like DFCO and adjust the values down to suit.
For those with EFILive, take a look at the sample log file
"Monaro supercharged 0 to 100kph.efi"
That is running a 2bar MAP modded in the way I described above.
Notice from about 4200RPM up the MAP is reading 82kPa, that is in fact about 160kPa.

The other drawback for you US guys is how the car would cope going on a drive from say LA to Colorado with no Barometric Pressure modifier.

However, the positive is, you don't need to pay any extra money to try it!!.
Hope that explains it?.

Cheers,
Ross

[GMPX]

I don't want to go with an aftermarket computer unit because I would lose things like my guages (and few more things).

Aftermarket computers are for race cars (or ricers) not real street cars, good call Earl.

Cheers,
Ross

[SS2win]

For those with EFILive, take a look at the sample log file
"Monaro supercharged 0 to 100kph.efi"
That is running a 2bar MAP modded in the way I described above.
Notice from about 4200RPM up the MAP is reading 82kPa, that is in fact about 160kPa.


Ross, can you make the bin for that Monaro available?

[Highlander]

one thing i would like to ask...

why would you want to make the changes on ALL operating systems? these code changes can be use for the different models... but not necessarily all OSs.

[GMPX]

For those with EFILive, take a look at the sample log file
"Monaro supercharged 0 to 100kph.efi"
That is running a 2bar MAP modded in the way I described above.
Notice from about 4200RPM up the MAP is reading 82kPa, that is in fact about 160kPa.


Ross, can you make the bin for that Monaro available?

Sorry, not my car, not my tune, not on my PC.

Cheers,
Ross