main differences from hpt to efi live

[boostedyards86]

i mainly tune the ecotec 2.0's and just recently purchased a 2010 camaro. HPT is frustrating me with their lack of support for the E38 pcm. And i'm really considering purchasing efi live. i have yet to see efi live in use and was wondering if it accepts input from aem widebands or not. most of my customers use them as well as myself. Also any other major differences etc?

[joecar]

Hi boostedyards86 (http://forum.efilive.com/member.php?u=9366),

Welcome to the forum...:cheers:

See this thread: showthread.php?t=10550&highlight=2010 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=10550&highlight=2010)

You can view the 2010 tune files in that thread...

download/install the V7.5.5 build 88 software from here (http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=133):
http://download.efilive.com/Software/V7.5/EFILiveV7.5.5.88_Setup.exe

that is the actual software... without the FlashScan V2 cable, the software still allows you to view/edit tune files and to view log files.

Let me know if that helps... and please post up any questions you have.

Cheers
Joe

[Blacky]

i have yet to see efi live in use and was wondering if it accepts input from aem widebands or not. most of my customers use them as well as myself. Also any other major differences etc?

FlashScan supports all wide bands that provide a 5V analog output AFR voltage.

FlashScan also supports direct digital wideband serial interfaces (which are not prone to any voltage/ground offset issues) for the following wide bands:
Innovate
PLX
FJO
JAW
AEM UEGO
ZT-2
TechEdge
ECM-AFR

Other major differences are:
- Integration between the Scan data and Tune maps - i.e. you can watch which cells are active in the tune maps as you play back logs or log in real time.
- Free use of all our custom operating systems
- Scripting option to allow you to automate repetitive calibration setup tasks.
- Standalone features (i.e. no laptop required) such as: display/clear codes, the ability to display/log PID data, and soon to be released reading and re-flashing direct to/from the FlashScan device.

Regards
Paul

[mr.prick]

Virtual VE is

Still several months away from public beta. (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182018&postcount=6)

[gmtech16450yz]

I own and use both EFI and HPT, the ONLY reason to use HPT is if EFI didn't support the particular engine/ ECM/ TCM you wanted to work on.

Black Box Logging is awesome and the EFI scan tool is way better than HPT's scanning/logging.

(imho)

[minytrker]

I own and use both EFI and HPT, the ONLY reason to use HPT is if EFI didn't support the particular engine/ ECM/ TCM you wanted to work on.

Black Box Logging is awesome and the EFI scan tool is way better than HPT's scanning/logging.

(imho)

I agree 100% and I also do the same thing.

[gmh308]

I own and use both EFI and HPT, the ONLY reason to use HPT is if EFI didn't support the particular engine/ ECM/ TCM you wanted to work on.

Black Box Logging is awesome and the EFI scan tool is way better than HPT's scanning/logging.

(imho)

Ditto on this. Had a chance to compare recently. No comparison with Black Box Logging, FlashScan Tool, graphing/reporting/maps. Way out in front on this and also mapping new OS's.

The HPT licensing also is kind of restrictive. You need to buy a license to read/modify and save a file even.

The list goes on and on (more A6 coming too).

The support is very friendly here too. :) Thats a big plus from feedback we have had.

[redhardsupra]

the support sucks at a lot less ;)

[SOMhaveit]

the support sucks at a lot less ;)

That's a good one!:laugh:

[GMPX]

the support sucks at a lot less ;)Support is difficult, especially when you are someone who prefers to be locked away in a dark room with the only company being computers.
I'm glad to see this thread didn't head down the usual path it would have years ago. One important thing to note is EFILive has from day one offered a free download of our software for anybody to use, you get to try before you buy as it were.

[mr.prick]

Support is difficult, especially when you are someone who prefers to be locked away in a dark room with the only company being computers.

Don't you mean sitting on the beach counting our money. ;) J/K

EFILive's customer service is second to none!
What other company gives the product support we get here?
Any problem with the software/firmware gets taken care of ASAP
and I can't count all the options that we have asked for implemented.

If I could meet just 2 celebrities from the lower hemisphere,
Ross and Paul would be a close second to Kylie and Danni Manogue. :laugh:
:cheers:

[minytrker]

I can say enough about EFI's customer support. From being a workshop customer and making a living tuning customer support is pretty important. I can not count how many times they have been there when I had problems with EFI, alot of them were my fault. I even messed up a V1 and V2 box over the years and they took very good care of me on both occasions.

[GMPX]

Don't you mean sitting on the beach counting our money. ;) J/KNa, I'm over here in Australia in my little room, I think Paul is sitting in he's new office in NZ counting it all, he keeps telling me sales are slow this month......maybe that is why he has a 2009 SS and I have a 2000 model :shock:

Cheers,
Ross

P.S - Just kidding!

[ScarabEpic22]

Actually with HPT you can now read and scan cars for free now, heard about that one last year or so.

But still, I chose EFILive over HPT for some reasons that still irke me and they will probably forever so Ill let them go. I like the instant support EFILive offers on this forum and if there's a user reported problem, they get it taken care of.

[DURAtotheMAX]

I used HP Tuners once and wanted to throw the laptop out the window. The way the table structure/tuning program was laid out was so clumsy IMO. Maybe im just used to EFILive I dunno?

And HPT's licensing scheme is just flat out stupid. Combine that with inferior tech support, and lack of free software trial/download, and its pretty clear why I will always use efilive. :D

ben

[Black02SS]

The ONLY benefit to HPT that I have found is the ability to compare different operating systems. The rest goes to EFILive.

[DURAtotheMAX]

The ONLY benefit to HPT that I have found is the ability to compare different operating systems. The rest goes to EFILive.

x2...thats one thing I really wish EFILive's tuning tool could do!!!! I think ross and paul said it is going to be incorporated into version 8?

[SOMhaveit]

Can't you make parameter changes on the fly with HPT w/o resorting to something like RoadRunner?

[minytrker]

Can't you make parameter changes on the fly with HPT w/o resorting to something like RoadRunner?

Yes, but it cost you another license.

[SOMhaveit]

Yes, but it cost you another license.

It would be worth it for me to be able to do that with EFILive rather than have to spend another $800 for RR.

[mr.prick]

RTT is in no way comparable to RTACS.
It's limited to a few tables and any changes you make are done manually.
The RR does all the work for you once you get it configured,
and downloading a tune takes maybe 10 seconds.
To my knowledge the RR will not be turned into a brick if a flash fails.

[Ira]

People keep mentioning support and here's an example, This unit was delivered Saturday and apparently opened this morning and it seems to have a problem, don't know if it does or not, but look at the responses it got in the first couple of hours on a Sunday afternoon.

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=11678

[gmh308]

And a nice friendly facilitative tone as well. :)

[rally1]

I agree with all that’s been said, I own both and would have to go dinging deep into my cupboard to find the HPT cable, and there really is no comparison to the roadrunner!!

[ScarabEpic22]

boosteryards86, myself and a few others have posted our opinions, why dont you download the software from the main efilive.com website and play around with it? Yes you cant see the VVE tables, but I assure you, they look the same as regular VE tables from an LS1 just with way more cells. And yes that is the exact same software everyone who owns EFILive runs, make sure you run the update utility to get the latest releases (usually a new one every 6-8 weeks at min, often more frequently if there are issues).

Erik

And as Paul said, AEM widebands easily integrate with either a V1 or V2 (you'll need a V2 to touch either the ecotechs or the Camaro however).

[mr.prick]

Virtual VE calibrations can now be viewed even when a FlashScan cable is not connected.
Build 88 (June 09, 2009)

[gmh308]

Virtual VE calibrations can now be viewed even when a FlashScan cable is not connected.
Build 88 (June 09, 2009)

In the demo too if I remember correctly :). Doing VE mods is now oh so easy!

[ScarabEpic22]

Apparently so, I was not aware of this because the last time I forgot to plug my V2 in to look at the VVE table it didnt work (around April), its second nature for me to plug it in now.

I stand corrected, you can see VVE tables in demo mode now too.

[Highlander]

The ONLY benefit to HPT that I have found is the ability to compare different operating systems. The rest goes to EFILive.

There are a couple more and a lot less... But with little staff they can only do so much... :(

[Sparky8370]

Don't you mean sitting on the beach counting our money. ;) J/K

EFILive's customer service is second to none!
What other company gives the product support we get here?
Any problem with the software/firmware gets taken care of ASAP
and I can't count all the options that we have asked for implemented.

If I could meet just 2 celebrities from the lower hemisphere,
Ross and Paul would be a close second to Kylie and Danni Manogue. :laugh:
:cheers:
LOL about an hour ago my wife and I saw an ad for some show taking place in NZ and my wife said she's always wanted to go to AUS or NZ and the first thing I thought was "Oh, maybe I can meet the EFI guys."

[mr.prick]

Danni, Kylie, Paul and Ross got bumped down on my list.
This guy is my new hero from down under. :laugh:
Australian 'Beg-a-holic' Rakes In $50G a Year (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,542505,00.html?test=latestnews)

[GMPX]

Probably gets my taxes in the form of a pension still!

[GMPX]

LOL about an hour ago my wife and I saw an ad for some show taking place in NZ and my wife said she's always wanted to go to AUS or NZ and the first thing I thought was "Oh, maybe I can meet the EFI guys."We are at SEMA every year, I'm the one who looks like Brad Pitt and Paul looks like David Beckham (yeah right!).

[Highlander]

We are at SEMA every year, I'm the one who looks like Brad Pitt and Paul looks like David Beckham (yeah right!).

Then again you would be making movies and not software ;)

[ScarabEpic22]

We are at SEMA every year, I'm the one who looks like Brad Pitt and Paul looks like David Beckham (yeah right!).

Id love to come meet you at SEMA, but yea right am I getting in the door. No way they'll let me in, Im not a vendor, not selling any products, etc. Lame:shock:

[macca_779]

Back to the original topic for a sec. I just picked up a used HPT serial interface off a mate which I'll be upgrading to an MPVI Pro for Ford support and I found one very nice feature that they have.

For those that aren't aware, with HPT you log into their website with your interface's serial number. From there you are shown all your upgrade options and all their credit bullshit relevant only to you.

This is also the area where you download VCM Suite (no open demo remember). What I found really nice is that when you download and install it the software automatically registers your cable. I was shocked when I clicked on the licensing option and all the year models I had available were already there. All this and I haven't even plugged in the cable (don't have RS232 on my lappy being that its not 10 years old).

Its probably a bit much to ask for EFI LIVE to do something like this due to the open way the software is distributed. But food for thought none the less as I like it.

[Highlander]

You can do that w/o internet connection on efilive :)

[98 tigershark]

Hello guys,

I am clearly an EFILive fan and the Product itself, the support and the forum is one reason why after I bought EFILive I have never needed to use the old stuff. But I never ever take the computer I tune with on line, security!. You know viruses and stuff. (Plus Paul would find out I have hacked EFILive and sell licenses on the Black Market, Not!!!) Any way is any one else concerned about their tuning software getting corrupted or even worse a virus to wipe out car PCMs. Cell phones can interfere with the PCM I am told so why not a virus?
I wonder if HPT is open to that problem.
Curious,
98 tigershark

[mr.prick]

I personally have everything important backed up on an external HD and
have everything EFILive related installed and in-sync on 2 PC's.

[98 tigershark]

Helloo mr.prick,
When you sync does that give you a closed channel or an https type of security? Back ups are a very good idea. I use a mac to down load windows applications and transfer the downloads to an external HD and then pick and choose what I transfer to my Windows based PC's with a bug scan, that do not go on line especially the one I sell the black market licenses with, NOT, LOL!!!.
98 tigershark


I personally have everything important backed up on an external HD and
have everything EFILive related installed and in-sync on 2 PC's.

[GMPX]

Its probably a bit much to ask for EFI LIVE to do something like this due to the open way the software is distributed. But food for thought none the less as I like it.I was under the impression that HPT compiles a version of the exe's for each and every cable. Maybe this is why it seems to specific to your dongle.

[98 tigershark]

When I hacked EFILive, who-oops, I mean HPT, I noticed some encryption identifiers in the DLL's and also in the chip software in the cable I think it is a pseudo serial number with a key.
98 tigershark

[98 tigershark]

Do not rely on this post, I have a bad headache and was writing science fiction and submitted it without my brain in gear.
Sorry,
98 tigershark



When I hacked EFILive, who-oops, I mean HPT, I noticed some encryption identifiers in the DLL's and also in the chip software in the cable I think it is a pseudo serial number with a key.
98 tigershark

[04CEZ06]

Can't you make parameter changes on the fly with HPT w/o resorting to something like RoadRunner?


Yes, but it cost you another license.

To use any of the custom operating systems (including real time tuning) that hpt has developed its gonna cost ya $100.00 extra on top of the $100.00 for the licence per ecu that you want to tune. This would end up costing someone $1000's of $$$$$$$ more.:bad:

EFI Live's custom's.....FREE:rockon:

I don't have a tuning tool yet but am in the market. I've been surfing the efi and hpt forums and must say the the fellas on here are much more friendly and willing to help than the HPT forum.:cheers:

Cheers,
David

[98 tigershark]

Hello and welcome,

I am always amazed at how nice all of these guys are at EFILive and the forum, the level of their experiences and knowledge that they are willing to share is also amazing.
I have learned so much here and have never been mocked by anyone for not knowing, only help. It is the single best investment I have made for my car and the next most enjoyable, driving is always first!
I had another program for tuning when I bought EFILive and was like a little kid on christmas waiting for it to arrive. I have not used that my old one ever since.
Best wishes,
9 tigershark

[mr.prick]

Helloo mr.prick,
When you sync does that give you a closed channel or an https type of security? Back ups are a very good idea. I use a mac to down load windows applications and transfer the downloads to an external HD and then pick and choose what I transfer to my Windows based PC's with a bug scan, that do not go on line especially the one I sell the black market licenses with, NOT, LOL!!!.
98 tigershark

I use SyncToy v2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=C26EFA36-98E0-4EE9-A7C5-98D0592D8C52&displaylang=en#filelist)

[98 tigershark]

Hey thanks mr.prick,
I clicked on the link and now there is SyncToy v2.0 so I downloaded it and will try to back up the Windows based PC tomorrow. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again and have a great Labor Day weekend.
regards,
98 tigershark

[macca_779]

I was under the impression that HPT compiles a version of the exe's for each and every cable. Maybe this is why it seems to specific to your dongle.

Yeah it must be something like that. Do you think its possible for EFI LIVE to incorporate something like this or is it just not worth it considering the different ways licensing is approached.

[Highlander]

To use any of the custom operating systems (including real time tuning) that hpt has developed its gonna cost ya $100.00 extra on top of the $100.00 for the licence per ecu that you want to tune. This would end up costing someone $1000's of $$$$$$$ more.:bad:

EFI Live's custom's.....FREE:rockon:

I don't have a tuning tool yet but am in the market. I've been surfing the efi and hpt forums and must say the the fellas on here are much more friendly and willing to help than the HPT forum.:cheers:

Cheers,
David

They have a very nice custom OS that would solve many of my issues.

[GMPX]

Do you think its possible for EFI LIVE to incorporate something like this or is it just not worth it considering the different ways licensing is approached.I think it's the dumbest things I've ever heard about :bad: Can you imagine the logistics behind compiling and sending out specific exe's for each customer. I think we will stick with our system.

[macca_779]

I think it's the dumbest things I've ever heard about :bad: Can you imagine the logistics behind compiling and sending out specific exe's for each customer. I think we will stick with our system.

They use .msi as their installer. I doubt the .exe is different for each user as I agree that would be pretty stupid.

Perhaps this explains how they do it.

Acording to the WIKI on .msi
Custom Actions

The developer of an installer package may write code to serve their own purpose, delivered in a DLL. This can be executed during the installation sequences, including when the user clicks a button in the user interface, or during the InstallExecuteSequence. Custom Actions typically validate product license keys, or initialise more complex services. Developers should normally provide inverse custom actions for use during uninstallation.

[hymey]

They have a very nice custom OS that would solve many of my issues.

I have been using both in particular the cos for e38 VE table,it works awesome but I am fussy with fueling on my car. You have to populate the VE yourself. Once you use it and set it up its a dream and allows very fast rapid changes to slight mods which can be cleaned up in 1 flash instead of 10. This was beneficial to me. I was not so worried about paying once off for it on my car to learn and also so Fords but on other cars I use EFIlive. The VE table it the only better thing about it so far i can see apart from 15 sec flashes. The structure is much better with efilive.

[98 tigershark]

Hey we are all tuning, right, and thats a good thing!

1.) COS W/EFILIve
2.) TSP no tables w/hpt
3.) More Tables and better logging w EFILive
4.) Customer service: you decide
5.) RR works w/EFILive

Look, the important thing here is we are all tuners. We should share info and learn from each others experience.
Personally I am glad when a HPT user visits the forum here and they are welcomed as long as there is no bashing.
So instead of finding what is different, lets talk about tuning and what help you with you preferred method and how to work together with the similarities.
This is just my oppinion.
98 tigershark