2 Fried PCMs?

[turbogtu]

My first (and second) attempts at flashing a custom os have ended in what seems to be catastrophic failure. The first attempt was on a pcm from an 02 camero. Reading the stock tune went fine. During the erasing part of the reflashing sequence, it reported that comms was lost with the pcm. Now I can't connect to the pcm at all?
Luckily I had a spare, from an 00 Suburban. So, I tried again. Read the stock tune no problem. During the reflash, same thing. WTF!
I spent two licenses and burnt two pcms....what am I doing wrong? Can I recover these?

V2 has bootblock 2.06.02 and firmware 2.06.12
using V7.5 build 88
Using my desktop computer and Bench harness with wall plug for power (strong 12.1V)...pins are right - it read fine.

Any Ideas?????

[mr.prick]

What's your battery voltage?

[turbogtu]

no battery used. V2 and pcm powered by wall plug....verified that had 12V.

[mr.prick]

:doh:I shoulda read the whole post.
How many amps is the plug rated,
someone was just asking about that but IIRC you don't need much.
Do you have a vehicle you can put them in to see if that works?

[GMPX]

If it quit during the erase part on a full flash and has not been able to reconnect then the PCM is dead. I am very suspicious of your wall plug, when the PCM turns on the erase/programming voltage inside itself it draws additional power, the fact that it failed at the same point on both times is no coincidence.

Now, whilst you might have had 12V, if the wall plug is not regulated you can bet the additional load on it during the erase would have caused it to produce a very noisy 12V that might have been interrupting the communications between the PCM and Flashscan.

What is the wattage / amp rating on the wall plug?

Cheers,
Ross

[turbogtu]

300mA...What is needed? Its a radio shack universal wall plug (adjustable from 1.5-12V @ 300mA). What do you recommend?
What your saying would make the most since...however it is the worst case scenario with two dead computers and no more licenses.

[turbogtu]

I do have a vehicle...but it's a c4 vette and I'm not entirely sure I have everything right in it yet.

[ChipsByAl]

You can always take the battery out of the car, get it fully charged and us it as a stable power source.
Al

[GAMEOVER]

You can always take the battery out of the car, get it fully charged and us it as a stable power source.
Al

Thats what I was thinking...:D

[mr.prick]

You can always take the battery out of the car, get it fully charged and us it as a stable power source.
Al

Kinda pointless if his PCMs are DOA. :frown:

I thought Flashscan could "recover" a PCM from a dead state tho. :confused:

[RetroAus]

300mA...What is needed? Its a radio shack universal wall plug (adjustable from 1.5-12V @ 300mA). What do you recommend?
What your saying would make the most since...however it is the worst case scenario with two dead computers and no more licenses.

You need at least 1 amp..as soon as write begins your voltage will drop..then you have yourself a dead pcm.

[Blacky]

Hi Turbogtu,

EFILive will replace your two PCM licenses free of charge. Please send you FlashScan serial number and auth code to me at [email protected]
See this page for how to get your auth code: http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110&Itemid=120

If you are using a wall plug you need one that outputs a regulated 12V and can supply at least 1 amp (1000mA) at 12V (as RetroAus said).

The PCMs can be recovered but only be removing, reprogramming and re-soldering the flash chip to the main circuit board.

Regards
Paul

[turbogtu]

I would think so. If it can erase the whole thing and then rewrite it, why can't it? Or if that was part of the sequence anyways, then why can't it start back from where it left off, writing?

[turbogtu]

Thanks Blacky. Bummer....but I'll gladly take the licenses back, turn a $500 dollar loss into $200-300.

[johnv]

I use a fully charged car battery as a power source with my bench harness when flashing custom operating systems or full re rights , never any problems.

[Blacky]

I would think so. If it can erase the whole thing and then rewrite it, why can't it? Or if that was part of the sequence anyways, then why can't it start back from where it left off, writing?

The problem is that the program code used by the PCM to communicate via the OBDII connector is stored in the flash memory. During a full-flash, just before the flash is erased (which includes erasing the comms code), EFILive copies its own communications code from the PC to the PCM's RAM. That way, once the flash memory (containing the comms code) is erased, the PCM can continue to communicate with FlashScan by using the comms code in the RAM. If power is removed from the PCM (or it is rebooted) before EFILive re-writes the comms code back into the flash memory, then the RAM copy gets destroyed and the PCM has no way to communicate with the outside world. For all intents and purposes it is brain-dead.

If you don't need to do a full flash then you should perform a cal only flash. A cal only flash does not delete the comms code and is therefor almost fail-safe.

Later PCMs like the E38 do not require the comms code to be deleted during a full flash. So it is almost impossible to cause a permanent failure in one of those. (Not that that helps you any).

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

Thanks Blacky. Bummer....but I'll gladly take the
licenses back, turn a $500 dollar loss into $200-300.

Replacement licenses sent.

Regards
Paul

[turbogtu]

I see, thanks for the info, I went out and got a 1.5A plug so hopefully I shouldn't have the same problem anymore. Also I got the licenses....which eases the pain. Thanks Paul.

[GMPX]

300mA...What is needed? Its a radio shack universal wall plug (adjustable from 1.5-12V @ 300mA). What do you recommend?
What your saying would make the most since...however it is the worst case scenario with two dead computers and no more licenses.The PCM alone draws 330mA on the bench when it's not being programmed, with the erase voltage switched on this jumps to around 450mA (from memory), plus the current draw from the V1 or V2, you are going to be up over 500mA minimum during a reflash.

To give you some head room I would suggest a fixed 12V, 1A regulated power supply. Regulated is important as the voltage will not vary with load, it also means it should produce a reasonably clean 12V.

EFILive can recover a PCM no problem, but in this case the flash has been completely wiped clean, much like pulling the BIOS chip from your PC, it would be totally dead. The PCM needs something in the flash for minimum functionality, when the traffic light is red in the full reflash this is the danger zone, once it gets past that then you are safe. The 'red' zone is writing the equivalent of the PC's BIOS, without it, it's brain dead.

Cheers,
Ross

[Chuck CoW]

Hey Fellas....As a suggestion, I use a common shop "booster pack" for bench flashing.

It's always plugged into the wall, this way the power never goes low and the pcm is buffered from the wall. Voltages are good for cars and bench flashing NEVER messes up.

Chuck CoW

[turbogtu]

Third times a charm! worked great with the 1.5A plug. As a suggestion for EFI LIVE....to protect against the morons out there (like me), I suggest adding a function where the power source is tested...put it in as part of the test function. I don't know if that's possible with what the flashscan is capable of, but it would be handy. Or if there is a process that can be induced in the pcm itself that draws nearly the power necessary for a reflash, then if the connection was lost during that process you could infer that the reflash would also fail.

[Blacky]

That's a very wise suggestion and we're discussing that here at EFILive.
Regards
Paul

[98 tigershark]

Boy do I have a real problem. I was in the middle of putting several COS (10 all at different times) on customers PCMs "a full bench reflash of course". Now I have no licenses left and need 10 new ones to finish the jobs Paul as well as the PCMs are fried. Those darn power outages! Just kidding of course! but it is a very good idea to confirm the power as reliable so I just learned.
I am truly sorry that it took 2 fried PCMs but I sure learned a valuable lesson and it is very cool that EFILive replaced the licenses and was more than helpful.
I will be sure not to make that mistake so thank you guys and I am sorry about the fried PCMs. Sometimes good does come out of bad.
Take care be well and thanks for the lesson, I wont forget that one now as we really do have allot of power outages. Sunday we had one for 8 hours.
Regards,
98 tigershark




That's a very wise suggestion and we're discussing that here at EFILive.
Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

Guess I'm spoiled here, Andrew installed a couple of UPS's that provide battery power for all our development and office PC's for up to 15 minutes if/when the power goes out (and it does). Its already saved me hours of redoing lost work. Although it is kind of spooky when all the lights go out and the PC are all still happily running as if nothing had happened.

I highly recommend getting one, I don't know how I survived without it before.

Regards
Paul

[hquick]

Good idea Paul.
I have the same setup here at work. Myself and the other sparky have our own UPS's hooked up to our PC's.
It's quite interesting to note how many 'brown outs' you can have and not actually notice them. The only tell tale being the occasional 'click-clack' of the UPS cycling.

[ScarabEpic22]

I agree, I ran a UPS at home in Seattle on my desktop PC. Its a dinky little unit, basically lets me stop immediately, save and shut down my PC before the battery dies (its a 500w+ PC though). As of now Im 100% laptop so power outages dont effect me too much, except when that 3hrs expires! But the internet dies immediately so...

[Biggsy]

I agree, I ran a UPS at home in Seattle on my desktop PC. Its a dinky little unit, basically lets me stop immediately, save and shut down my PC before the battery dies (its a 500w+ PC though). As of now Im 100% laptop so power outages dont effect me too much, except when that 3hrs expires! But the internet dies immediately so...

I'm the same as you but I have mobile broadband, so I don't lose the internet either!

[98 tigershark]

I was just typing to this post when I had a power outage. Really!
I just got DSL a little over a week ago and just canceled my dial up. Oh well.
Anyway, when I put the newer PCM (99-02) into my vette this winter can I do that in the car after the install and or do I always have to remove it for a COS or a reflash. Does my car have enough power to complete the task? I have Commercial scan and tune and do I then need another license? Just planning ahead.
98 tigershark

[ScarabEpic22]

As long as your battery is fully charged you shouldnt have any issues doing a full flash then a cal flash before starting it. I would recommend using a battery tender like another member suggested but I have full flashed my E67 and T42 using only battery power back to back and the E67 flash takes like 4+mins as its 2MB not 512kb or 1MB.

You will use another license with the new PCM as it is a different PCM.