slow tune!

[projectblackbird]

i have a 98 ws6
234/248 cam
595/605 lift 113lsa
longtubes and y-pipe
3600 yank
3.73 gears
ls6 intake
cnc'd heads
slp lid
can some one please tell me where i went wrong in my tune? my best time is only 13.81! the stock car with 171k on it went 13.83.

[waterbug1999]

I see 18* for timing in the WOT area in your spark tables. So, just wondering why it got set like that.

[projectblackbird]

i think it was set back for nitrous! but even i don't pull that much out for my big block

[waterbug1999]

i think it was set back for nitrous! but even i don't pull that much out for my big block

If its running 18* N/A its going to be down on some power.. Most LS1's are about 25*-28*.

You should invest in a timing tuner so you can run full timing N/A, then when you spray it retards timing to what ever you set it to.

[projectblackbird]

do you mean like a msd timing twister? i was spraying the stock setup with no adverse effect! do you think it needs to be retarded? if so how far? i only take out 10-12 for a 300 shot on my big block.

[waterbug1999]

do you mean like a msd timing twister? i was spraying the stock setup with no adverse effect! do you think it needs to be retarded? if so how far? i only take out 10-12 for a 300 shot on my big block.

You were spraying on the stock shortblock it set at 18* of timing.. The tuner prolly set it up that way for the spray, I think its a tad too much. And N/A it will make your car feel like a pooch until you bump the timing back up.

[projectblackbird]

i sat here most of the day copying all of his tune to a stock tune except for the spark tables! i don't know much at all about this type of stuff but i think i should see a pick up in something or blow up trying

[5.7ute]

You are most definately leaving power on the table with only 18 deg advance at wot. Like waterbug has said boost your timing up at wot starting at 25 deg. I wouldnt go much further than 27 without a dyno or knock phones though.

[projectblackbird]

thanks 5.7! do you think that stock spark table will work for some motor passes

[5.7ute]

thanks 5.7! do you think that stock spark table will work for some motor passes

Between 25 & 27 degrees is where you want it for the motor passes. On the spray you will obviously need to pull timing from there.

[projectblackbird]

thanks a bunch! but like i said, i'm still learning so modifying a spark table is going to be a bit of a challenge for me. but i will eventually get it

[5.7ute]

Are you going to be spraying this engine or just running N/A?

[projectblackbird]

i am going to spray it, but my mentallity ( as i do with my trailer cars) is to get it correct on motor first before i spray! but i would like to put as much nitrous in as possible without scattering this basic stock bottom end

[5.7ute]

i am going to spray it, but my mentallity ( as i do with my trailer cars) is to get it correct on motor first before i spray! but i would like to put as much nitrous in as possible without scattering this basic stock bottom end

That is the smart way to do it. What you want to do on motor only NO NITROUS is something like this.
You will need to log cylinder airmass, rpm & KR & ensure there is no knock.

[projectblackbird]

thanks for the fix! i will try it out later today, cause its 2 in the morning here! catch you tomorrow! thanks!

[waterbug1999]

yea, that looks pretty nice... And like he said DO NOT SPRAY on that tune.

[projectblackbird]

lol! i got you waterbug!

[projectblackbird]

:help2:anybody else out there got any tunes to share?

[waterbug1999]

:help2:anybody else out there got any tunes to share?

I wouldnt load up any one elses tunes... Load up the one that was posted and see how it does. Do you have a wideband in the car?

[projectblackbird]

no i don't have a wideband on the car. and as far as loading tunes, i'm not, just doing some comparison! this is how i'm learning to use this tuner so far! its like answers in the back of the book! lol

[waterbug1999]

no i don't have a wideband on the car. and as far as loading tunes, i'm not, just doing some comparison! this is how i'm learning to use this tuner so far! its like answers in the back of the book! lol

Next thing you should get is a wideband in your car... That will tell you where your A/F is... Your too rich or too lean, that will leaves power on the table and could possibly damage things.

[projectblackbird]

its in the making, but i really wanna upgrade my pcm to a 99 like yours! i was told that i could get better tuning out of it

[ScarabEpic22]

Yep do the 99-02 PCM conversion then run COS 5 for when you go to spray. Flip a switch and the PCM instantly pulls however much timing you setup so you can spray all day long then go back instantly to full power N/A.

[waterbug1999]

Yep do the 99-02 PCM conversion then run COS 5 for when you go to spray. Flip a switch and the PCM instantly pulls however much timing you setup so you can spray all day long then go back instantly to full power N/A.

You care to go into more detail about COS 5.

[5.7ute]

COS5 has nitrous tables that are activated by earthing a pin in the PCM. Once the pin is earthed timing can be pulled from one table & fuel added from another if you are running a dry shot. Check out A0015 & A0016 in the attached tune file.
This pin can also be set up for valet mode.
IIRC the A0015 VE multiplier table will not work if the maf is enabled.(SD mode only)

[waterbug1999]

COS5 has nitrous tables that are activated by earthing a pin in the PCM. Once the pin is earthed timing can be pulled from one table & fuel added from another if you are running a dry shot. Check out A0015 & A0016 in the attached tune file.
This pin can also be set up for valet mode.
IIRC the A0015 VE multiplier table will not work if the maf is enabled.(SD mode only)

So you have A0015 that can richen up the AF by changing the VE Tables and A0016 can pull timing.. Pretty nice...

Is there a limit to how much timing can be pulled and how much you can adjust your VE Table??

That would be pretty sweet because there has been a countless number of times where I was either a tad too rich or a tad too lean and did not have the proper size jets to accomidate for it. So, this would come in handy for fine tuning. And since my motor crapped out on me a few weeks ago and I am going FI now, it looks like I should upgrade too.

What all is needed to do this?

[5.7ute]

I believe the VE multiplier has been upgraded to run at least a 300 shot. I know a few cars in Adelaide are running a 250 dry shot using only these tables.
Check out here http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=2599

[waterbug1999]

I believe the VE multiplier has been upgraded to run at least a 300 shot. I know a few cars in Adelaide are running a 250 dry shot using only these tables.
Check out here http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=2599

technically if you have a wet kit and use that table to mostly add fuel its a dry shot I suppose..
Just make sure your injectors are up to par if you dont use your jets to get you close.

[projectblackbird]

hey, i did a little data logging today with your touch up! it was pulling 4degrees out between 4 and 5 grand

[waterbug1999]

hey, i did a little data logging today with your touch up! it was pulling 4degrees out between 4 and 5 grand

98's tend to get high KR.... Put the old tune back in and see if you still get knock or throw some race gas in and see.

[5.7ute]

Can you post up the log file?

[5.7ute]

technically if you have a wet kit and use that table to mostly add fuel its a dry shot I suppose..
Just make sure your injectors are up to par if you dont use your jets to get you close.

I changed my wet kit to dry to remove a major lean spike when launching. It worked a treat. Fuel pressure wasnt dropping when this was occuring, all I could put it down to was too long a fuel path to the fuel jet on the initial hit.

[projectblackbird]

i may try that race gas i plenty on hand! here are some log files!

[5.7ute]

i may try that race gas i plenty on hand! here are some log files!

Do you have a log file with the old tune you can post up?

[projectblackbird]

no i don't! but i think the exhaust is bumping making the timing retard!

[5.7ute]

Wouldnt surprise me. You even have KR at idle. The narrowband sensors are showing lean at idle though & it could be true KR, though this is not an accurate way to measure the AFR at idle.
Loading your old tune & doing a quick log may give us a more accurate indication.

[projectblackbird]

i will do that tomorrow! but i do have one log file that was not under wot.

[projectblackbird]

i think that kr is from a phantom knock. my guess is that its from the y-pipe bumping the floor pan because the engine sounds the way it always has. has anyone just ever turned knock sensors off? how did,does, that work?

[projectblackbird]

anybody?

[projectblackbird]

this is my latest log

[joecar]

What was your 1/4 ET and TS...?

Edit: I calculate ET=13.9s, TS=104.4mph.

Edit: revised to 13.76s.

:)

[joecar]

You have some knock, it seems from the engine loading down from tires gaining traction after slipping.

[projectblackbird]

13.76 was the time slip i got! and i'm serioulsy thinking of turning the knock sensors off!

[joecar]

projectblackbird (http://forum.efilive.com/member.php?u=9393),

Would it be ok if I borrowed your quarter mile log for this other thread: showthread.php?t=11902 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=11902)



:)

[projectblackbird]

yes

[joecar]

Thanks...:cheers:

See post #16 in that other thread... (I fixed the broken link).

[projectblackbird]

intresting formula joe! thanks for the info!