Went to the track! 15 psi and 93 octane Citgo gas!

[nitrorocket]

Well, I finally went to the drag strip with my Twin Turbo Chevelle. I went 10.50@ 136.34. I was hopeing to go faster, but the track was way too busy to make any passes. This was on 315/35/17 drag radials and Citgo 93 octane @ 15 psi. I wish I had more time to dial in the suspension. I only hooked a 1.80 second 60'. Last year I did a 1.60 60', but the car did not have turbos. A few more launches and I would have pulled off a high 9 second run. Oh well, always next year!

I wish I would have had time to tune. I was at 11.5:1 afr and 15.5 degrees of timing. I CANNOT GET MY TIMING TO STAY AT TABLE VALUE's!! I am commanding 18 degrees and only getting 15.5???? Anyone know what the deal is? :bang:

All in all, not bad for a pumpgas car with a raceweight of about 3840 lbs.

[foff667]

congrats on the times...theres probably some adder/multiplyer tables coming into play.

[Blacky]

Got a video?
Paul

[Blacky]

I wish I would have had time to tune. I was at 11.5:1 afr and 15.5 degrees of timing. I CANNOT GET MY TIMING TO STAY AT TABLE VALUE's!! I am commanding 18 degrees and only getting 15.5???? Anyone know what the deal is? :bang:

Have you logged the GM.EST_xxx_DMA PIDs? They shuol dshow you all the partial spark components that are added to obtain the final "run spark". You can usually see which table is responsible for pulling the spark.

Regards
Paul

[nitrorocket]

No I have not logged those tables. Just the SAE.SPARKADV

I do not have a video. I am also having hot intake temp problems. My turbos are mounted behind the radiator and are sucking 200 degree air. At the end of my pass I was seeing 138 degrees!

What tables would probably be the timing reduction culprit?

[GMPX]

First up, nice times for the first outing, I'd be interested to hear some reactions of people that looked at the engine bay.

Nasty intake temps for sure, better check table {B5911}, might be losing it in there, would be better to get the lower intake temps though!.

Cheers,
Ross

EDIT - Metric mind thinking here, you were talking 138degF, not 138degC. :oops:

[nitrorocket]

According to that table, It would have pulled about 2.5 degrees of timing at 138 degree intake temps.

My biggest problem is my converter. I need to buy a different one. I am pushing through mine. I get 5500 rpm off the trans brake! And my data log shows the car stayed at 6600 rpm the entire pass and went through the traps at 6900 rpm at only 137 mph!! I have a 3.42 gear with a 26" tall tire! That doesn't sound right does it!

With the custom O.S. 3 bar, should I have high and low timing tables the same? Will the pcm still have the ability to lower timing for knock?

Also, was'nt there some talk about making a IAT VE correction table instead of the engine temp table? I sure could use that.

I want to thank everyone for your help. It has been quite a learning curve with the setup I have!!

[GMPX]

According to that table, It would have pulled about 2.5 degrees of timing at 138 degree intake temps.

As Paul said, you should log the spark PID's to see which one is the offender.


With the custom O.S. 3 bar, should I have high and low timing tables the same? Will the pcm still have the ability to lower timing for knock?

One of the advantages is that you get the twin maps, don't make them the same, it is safe (and better) to pull say 5 - 7 degrees out of the low octane table above say 0.40g/cyl. Just make sure {A0000} is set to disable and {A0002} is set to 100.



Also, was'nt there some talk about making a IAT VE correction table instead of the engine temp table? I sure could use that.

Yes, just need your O.S number.



I want to thank everyone for your help. It has been quite a learning curve with the setup I have!!

No problem, it's good to see how far you have progressed, certainly a brave man to take the challenge tuning that motor on your first use of EFILive.

Cheers,
Ross

[nitrorocket]

Thanks for all the info.

And to think everyone heavily doubted my abilities because of all my stupid questions! :D

I will have to make sure my low octane table is setup that way. I only have it 1 degree lower.

My O.S. # is 02020003. Is that the best one?

[mistermike]

No problem, it's good to see how far you have progressed, certainly a brave man to take the challenge tuning that motor on your first use of EFILive.

Cheers,
Ross

Brass balls, I'd say. Good job, Nitro!

[GMPX]

Thanks for all the info.

And to think everyone heavily doubted my abilities because of all my stupid questions! :D

I will have to make sure my low octane table is setup that way. I only have it 1 degree lower.

My O.S. # is 02020003. Is that the best one?

Any of the 020x0003 would be fine, I just needed to know because they have not all been modified with the new IAT table yet (that one included).
I'll get it done for you as soon as I can, 3 or 4 days tops.

Search this site for High Octane or High/Low or Octane scaler, I did a post on how that all works, it might make more sense then.

Cheers,
Ross

P.S - There is no such thing as a stupid question, but, it might be stupid if you don't know when you get an equaly stupid answer.

[dfe1]

I will have to make sure my low octane table is setup that way. I only have it 1 degree lower.

Keep in mind that the PCM doesn't use only the high octane or only the low octane table-- it uses a sliding scale that takes both into account. The scale moves according to a variety of variables, primarily the amount of knock detected. When there's a significant difference in the high and low octane spark values, you'll find that logged spark numbers will usually not match what's in either table. That's the way it's supposed to be. You'll have to play with the values in both spark tables to get the actual value you want.

For what it's worth, when I'm tuning, I always set high and low octane tables the same to eliminate variation, but also increase the amount of allowable retard in B6204 and B6205. If you're tuning and monitoring conditions, there's really no need for different high and low octane spark settings-- you should be off the throttle as soon as you see an excessive amount of retard. My personal opinion is that the only real use for a low octane spark table is long term engine protection in vehicles that are running on low octane gas and being driven by semi-comatose drivers. Obviously, if you're tuning someone else's vehicle, you want to develop proper high and low octane spark tables as a safety valve. Considering that you're running twin turbos on pump gas, it's not a bad idea for you to have quite a few degrees of difference between the two tables. But it will take a bit of experimenting to develop the values in each table so that you get the amount of spark you want. Since you're using a custom OS, read the info at http://efilive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1653 for information about the scaler.
Having said all that, the best advice is to develop a tuning protocol that you feel comfortable with. Different approaches work differently for different people-- there's right, wrong, and a whole lot in between that can be either, depending on who is doing what.

[MN C5]

Thanks for all the info.

And to think everyone heavily doubted my abilities because of all my stupid questions! :D

I will have to make sure my low octane table is setup that way. I only have it 1 degree lower.

My O.S. # is 02020003. Is that the best one?

Some of us still do... :wink: Your living proof at how fool proof this software is :mrgreen:

[joecar]

Doubt or no doubt, we're impressed. Good work mate. :D

:3 thumbs up: (...I just watched WotW :shock: ...)

[mistermike]

Some of us still do... :wink: Your living proof at how fool proof this software is :mrgreen:

I'm a living example of "Just when you make it idiot-proof, someone comes along and invents a better idiot."

[GMPX]

Also, was'nt there some talk about making a IAT VE correction table instead of the engine temp table? I sure could use that.


I've patched the new table into the O.S you are running and it's all good, I just need to get the latest calibration files from Paul to regen them to suit this new table, but it's 2am in NZ, so I'll Email them to you tommorrow.
I'll put a new topic up about it.

Cheers,
Ross

[MN C5]

Some of us still do... :wink: Your living proof at how fool proof this software is :mrgreen:

I'm a living example of "Just when you make it idiot-proof, someone comes along and invents a better idiot."

LOL that makes two of us :lol:

NitroRocket, nice looking project! Are you running a glide or a 400?

[nitrorocket]

Thanks guys!

I am running a Hipster turbo 400 with 9" converter. I called Hipster today and they confirmed I toasted my converter on my first pass!! :cry:

They said they will take care of me. I will have to see what that means. :?

The good news is the car will go faster with just a new converter. The bad news is that I have to pull the converter out. I hate torque converters! :x

Hopefully with the new converter, a little timing, and cold air induction, I will be seeing 145+ mph on pumpgas! I can't wait!

[GMPX]

Hopefully with the new converter, a little timing, and cold air induction, I will be seeing 145+ mph on pumpgas! I can't wait!

Nor can we :shock: :D
I'll send the files to you soon with the IAT table.

Cheers,
Ross