w.b. keeps throwing a code? po1153

[smslyguy]

my lc1 wideband keeps throwing a code po1153 after about 40-50 miles of driving. I do notice that the gauge also fluctiates while steady cruising from 14.7 to around 14.1 even under light loads. when the mil light comes on then the lc1 gauge reads a pretty steady 14.6 at cruising. Don't know what's goin on with this? I have adjusted the speeds on the lc-1 as well, with no luck. any suggestions??? here is a copy of my log before the mil light.

[mr.prick]

Set P0153 to NO MIL.
You now have STFT/LTFT data and the NBO2 voltage is not stuck @ .450v. :rockon:
What did you do to fix that?

[smslyguy]

[QUOTE=mr.prick;104118]Set P0153 to NO MIL.
You now have STFT/LTFT data and the NBO2 voltage is not stuck @ .450v. :rockon:
What did you do to fix that?[/QUOTE

I had it hooked up wrong.So by setting this to no mil doesn't it still go into "limp mode" or not?

[mr.prick]

You won't get the DTC light.

[smslyguy]

Set P0153 to NO MIL.
You now have STFT/LTFT data and the NBO2 voltage is not stuck @ .450v. :rockon:
What did you do to fix that?

did you notice on the log the fluctuation in the afr at cruising speed? Is this normal?

[mr.prick]

AFR will bounce a little.
Cut your PIDs down until total channels selected is no more than 24.

[smslyguy]

AFR will bounce a little.
Cut your PIDs down until total channels selected is no more than 24.

even without logging data on efi live it still fluctuates on the gauge for the lc-1 as it does on the log i have posted. (I bought the gauge kit for the lc-1)

[01Z]

I'm getting the P1153 and P0154 with my LM-1 too. Apparently you are simulating your narrow band through the controller because your WB sensor is in the NB bung correct??

Anyway, I thought my problem was the length and quality of the connection. There isn't enough voltage fluctuation because of resistance. My plan is to shorten and tighten the wiring from the controller analog #1 output to the harness O2 sensor weather-pack. Does this sound like your situation?

[smslyguy]

I'm getting the P1153 and P0154 with my LM-1 too. Apparently you are simulating your narrow band through the controller because your WB sensor is in the NB bung correct??

Anyway, I thought my problem was the length and quality of the connection. There isn't enough voltage fluctuation because of resistance. My plan is to shorten and tighten the wiring from the controller analog #1 output to the harness O2 sensor weather-pack. Does this sound like your situation?

yes i have it simulating one side of my narrow band. Although, i did not get a po154 code. let me know if shorting the wires up helps you out at all.

[smslyguy]

Set P0153 to NO MIL.
You now have STFT/LTFT data and the NBO2 voltage is not stuck @ .450v. :rockon:
What did you do to fix that?

it was p1153 (insufficeint switching bank2 sensor1) that set the mil light not po153. Should i still set p1153 to no mil?

[mr.prick]

Set them both to NO MIL.
Try a different response setting for the LC-1.

[smslyguy]

Set them both to NO MIL.
Try a different response setting for the LC-1.

ya i was playing around with the response settings and it seems to run the best at 1/2 but still sets a code at any setting i use.

[01Z]

yes i have it simulating one side of my narrow band. Although, i did not get a po154 code. let me know if shorting the wires up helps you out at all.

I have a ScanMaster so I can watch my O2 sensor voltage. The PCM millivolts from the LM-1 simulated NB sensor trick barely fluctuates more than 100 mv. Apparently this isn't enough to keep from setting the P1153 and P0154. I get the 154 instead of 153 because I'm using the #2 bank. I'm telling you this because I'm fairly certain this is your problem too although I figure you are using bank #1.

So there's no confusion, I won't be "shorting the wires". It is only the low voltage (with engine off key on) wire that we need to be concerned. Apparently our PCM doesn't require any feedback from the heater circuit.

Right now I'm involved in tuning my LTFTs so the NB sensor has gone back in. Once the trims are dialed in I'll be going for the WOT tuning. In which case the P1153 and P0153/4 will mean nothing because at open throttle the NB sensors are out of the equation. What I'm saying is this; if you are just tuning with the LC-1 for WOT A/F then you can live with the codes until the tuning is done. If you want the WB in there for the long term then you will need to get a better connection between your analog output and the O2 harness. That's my take on it anyway.

[smslyguy]

I have a ScanMaster so I can watch my O2 sensor voltage. The PCM millivolts from the LM-1 simulated NB sensor trick barely fluctuates more than 100 mv. Apparently this isn't enough to keep from setting the P1153 and P0154. I get the 154 instead of 153 because I'm using the #2 bank. I'm telling you this because I'm fairly certain this is your problem too although I figure you are using bank #1.

So there's no confusion, I won't be "shorting the wires". It is only the low voltage (with engine off key on) wire that we need to be concerned. Apparently our PCM doesn't require any feedback from the heater circuit.

Right now I'm involved in tuning my LTFTs so the NB sensor has gone back in. Once the trims are dialed in I'll be going for the WOT tuning. In which case the P1153 and P0153/4 will mean nothing because at open throttle the NB sensors are out of the equation. What I'm saying is this; if you are just tuning with the LC-1 for WOT A/F then you can live with the codes until the tuning is done. If you want the WB in there for the long term then you will need to get a better connection between your analog output and the O2 harness. That's my take on it anyway.

thanks for the info, and yes i am using bank 2 sensor 1 with my w.b. Surely there must be a way to similate a n.b without setting a code. I am pretty sure it has to do with the grounding (maybe mine or yours are to far apart) i'm not quite sure, but it problly is a gound issue.

[01Z]

Perhaps it is the ground offset but as you know, simulating the NB sensor is a one wire affair. There's no shortage of discussion on Innovate forum regarding the ground offset. After I have the LTFTs dialed I will be going back to the WB and do some research on the simulation. I can't find a place to put another bung because I'm using the factory exhaust manifold due to emission testing here so using the NB sensor hole is my only option. Since you have headers there should be room for a dedicated bung and you can move away from the LC-1s NB analog simulation.

[smslyguy]

Perhaps it is the ground offset but as you know, simulating the NB sensor is a one wire affair. There's no shortage of discussion on Innovate forum regarding the ground offset. After I have the LTFTs dialed I will be going back to the WB and do some research on the simulation. I can't find a place to put another bung because I'm using the factory exhaust manifold due to emission testing here so using the NB sensor hole is my only option. Since you have headers there should be room for a dedicated bung and you can move away from the LC-1s NB analog simulation.

i wish i could weld a bung in mine but i have short tube headers with high flow cats, as to why i was using my factory o2 slot as well. I have been playing around with the switch times to see if that helps out at all, but i haven't had much luck at all with it. I think my car ran a little better with the factory o2 sensors as well. Have you noticed any difference between the factory and w.b on yours?

[smslyguy]

Set them both to NO MIL.
Try a different response setting for the LC-1.

do you think this is a grounding issue?

[01Z]

i wish i could weld a bung in mine but i have short tube headers with high flow cats, as to why i was using my factory o2 slot as well. I have been playing around with the switch times to see if that helps out at all, but i haven't had much luck at all with it. I think my car ran a little better with the factory o2 sensors as well. Have you noticed any difference between the factory and w.b on yours?
I had the wideband sensor in for a few hundred miles. The MIL would come on just about the same as yours - about 40 or 50 miles but I think it really has to do with a number of run cycles. The PCM sees the fault a specific number of times and then trips the check engine light and sets a DTC.

I have been experimenting with different tunes sent to me by another EFILive person. I can't verify if the car runs any different with the wideband and simulation because of that. I'll pay attention to the performance when the LTFT tuning is finished and the WOT tuning begins.

Regarding your #1 analog output; is the wire from the LC-1 attached good as in soldered and is it soldered into the connector for the loom? I don't know about the grounding but having a clean, solid and low resistance in that wire is critical.

[smslyguy]

I had the wideband sensor in for a few hundred miles. The MIL would come on just about the same as yours - about 40 or 50 miles but I think it really has to do with a number of run cycles. The PCM sees the fault a specific number of times and then trips the check engine light and sets a DTC.

I have been experimenting with different tunes sent to me by another EFILive person. I can't verify if the car runs any different with the wideband and simulation because of that. I'll pay attention to the performance when the LTFT tuning is finished and the WOT tuning begins.

Regarding your #1 analog output; is the wire from the LC-1 attached good as in soldered and is it soldered into the connector for the loom? I don't know about the grounding but having a clean, solid and low resistance in that wire is critical.

no it's not soilderd, but it is crimped and screwed to the frame where it should have a good ground. I am kinda thinking that the lc-1's ground should be grounded to the "factory" wire harness ground to prevent any lap. Don't know this for sure, but i am thinking about experimenting with it.

[01Z]

Since we have the same situation it might be a good idea to search the Innovate forum for those DTCs. If I find the solution then you'll have it too. If there are two of us struggling with the exact same problem then there have been many more.

Just one thing though; I don't have anything grounded yet I'm still seeing 350 to 550 millivolts from that simulated O2 sensor reported by the PCM. According to the LM-1 manual, the only wire needed to interface the manufactured NBO2 voltage is the (red) lead from Analog output #1. The red wire on my unit is connected to the forward tip of the male end of the stereo mini jack. I'm not familiar with the LC-1 so maybe we don't have the same hook up to that regard.

I have a wideband a/f gauge waiting to be installed so I do have an interest in making the LM-1 with the WB sensor a semi-permanent installation. I also have a nitrous kit to get working once the car has been NA tuned.

Here's some useful information: http://mycomputerninja.com/~jon/www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/Library/WideBandO2.html

[joecar]

The factory harness NBO2 connector needs these two wires to allow the PCM to properly see a NBO2 signal:

Pin B <- LC-1 yellow (analog 1 output)
Pin A <- LC-1 green or white

[smslyguy]

The factory harness NBO2 connector needs these two wires to allow the PCM to properly see a NBO2 signal:

Pin B <- LC-1 yellow (analog 1 output)
Pin A <- LC-1 green or white

yup i have it hooked up like that.

[01Z]

I guess there are significant differences between the LC-1 and LM-1 manuals regarding the sensor wires and I don't want to add more here that creates confusion. I'm tempted to post part of a paragraph from the LM-1 manual regarding the analog connection in place of the OEM O² sensor but I think it would be right to do it in a separate thread.

[smslyguy]

I guess there are significant differences between the LC-1 and LM-1 manuals regarding the sensor wires and I don't want to add more here that creates confusion. I'm tempted to post part of a paragraph from the LM-1 manual regarding the analog connection in place of the OEM O² sensor but I think it would be right to do it in a separate thread.

very odd that we both have the same problem, though. I hooked up my factory 02 a put the wideband in the post cat bung. I have heard of it being off by as much as 1 a.f.r, but i will soon find out. I will log some info when i get a chance.

[01Z]

Well I looked at the LC-1 manual and the hints and tricks section for the analog output is the same as what i have in the LM-1 manual. I guess I'm doing what you already attempted by connecting the TAN lead to the RED analog #1 wire and the PURPLE lead to the analog #1 white wire. I'll measure some things before actually connecting to the LM-1 controller to make certain I'm not pushing 12 volts into a 1 volt output circuit. I'll let you know my results and please keep us posted here.

[01Z]

yup i have it hooked up like that.

I believe I've got it now. My scanner shows a full range of millivolts right up to 999. There's a few quirks but if it doesn't throw a code I'm happy. :fluffy:
Looky here: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/1182010-analog-nb-voltage-programming-lm-1-lc-1-a.html

[joecar]

I believe I've got it now. My scanner shows a full range of millivolts right up to 999. There's a few quirks but if it doesn't throw a code I'm happy. :fluffy:
Looky here: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/1182010-analog-nb-voltage-programming-lm-1-lc-1-a.htmlGood job...:cheers:

What did you do to achieve this...?

(Yes, why did Innovate change the wire colors between LC-1 and LM-1...?)


Welcome to Differential Inputs:

The PCM's NBO2 input pair (signal_high, signal_low) are known as a "differential input pair"... the PCM sees the NBO2 voltage as the voltage on signal_high wrt signal_low regardless/irrespective of PCM ground...

each of signal_high and signal_low are themselves wrt to PCM ground... in effect the PCM electronically subtracts signal_high_wrt_PCM_ground from signal_low_wrt_PCM_ground to obtain the NBO2 voltage...

the purpose of differential inputs is to subtract out noise... e.g. if ignition secondary induces spikes, the spikes will have the same amplitude on each of signal_high and signal_low, so the spikes become subtracted out, leaving the actual NBO2 voltage intact.

:)

[01Z]

For my LS1/6 with the LM-1 WB controller:

The Analog #1 wire (red) gets connected to the #2 purple wire from the efi loom to the PCM. I made the change when SSpdDmn produced an O2 sensor wiring schematic for a 99 Corvette.

The Analog copper ground wire gets connected to the #2 TAN wire from the efi loom to the PCM.

I previous had the TAN wire connected as I thought it was the high signal. The reason for that was I had checked voltage from the loom and thought it corresponded to the instructions in the LM-1 manual. I had previously thought the purple wire was a heater voltage because it showed more than 12 volts with the key on - engine off. It turns out that the purple wire goes to 1.2 volts on engine start up and the TAN wire goes to .45 volts. It was 4.5 volts before the engine starts. Basically those voltages are reduced by the power of 10 once the engine has started.

The formula you show works. The 1.2 volts minus the .45 volts equals 7.5 volts or more. Not seeing the sine of the signal gives the steady state I suppose. However, there are some quirks which may end up creating a DTC or two. I don't know yet.

After closed loop, the numbers do not always move quickly and occasionally seem to stall at 999 or 000. A very small movement of the throttle gets the voltage nambers moving up and down again.

The happy side effect is that the idle A/F numbers seem believable now. Before I was seeing very lean.