What wideband do you use with EFI Live???

[Chuck CoW]

Need some help here.

What portable wideband do you use with EFI LIVE?

I'm only interested in those that use the efi live SERIAL connection with the wideband.

The innovate LM2 is GARBAGE and does not work. They have not helped one bit. Especially that wise ass that tells me "I'm doing it worng".

Who is using WHAT unit.....Not casually or on weekends...but to run a tuning business???

Thanks
Chuck CoW

[SSpdDmon]

Honestly, my LM1 has worked fine for me and is very portable with a cig power chord and easy-to-connect wires to EFI Live. That, and I like the program-ability to set the AFR range the way I like.

The LC1 I had I made more portable than it was by powering it through the O2 sensor connector. But, the LM1 is just a LOT easier to move from car to car.

What problems are you having with your LM2 unit?

[minytrker]

I have tuned several hundred cars with my LM1. I used it everyday for the last 3 yrs.

[GAMEOVER]

I have an LM-2 and I'm freaking sick of it!!! POS, worthless wideband. My LC-1 didn't give me as many problems as the LM-2...
I've tried 4 new sensor's and it still won't work!!!

[ntae]

Techedge 2J1 , at around $260 AU$ you can have a few of the units in the shop to use

[gmh308]

Techedge 2C1. They have sold thousands into the US, so there must be a few around there :).

http://wbo2.com/

[Chuck CoW]

I have an LM-2 and I'm freaking sick of it!!! POS, worthless wideband. My LC-1 didn't give me as many problems as the LM-2...
I've tried 4 new sensor's and it still won't work!!!

I'm gonna say this LOUD so Innovate takes notice.

The In my opinion...The Innovate LM2 is a piece of SHIT! That's that!

I bought one of the first ones and it sucked. I called them and they admitted problems with the early ones and promised to overnight a new one.

AFTER 6 (six) weeks of lies and my constant calls, a new unit showed up. It worked slightly better.

In the next few months I purchased nearly 20 (twenty) sensors as the device would tell me all of the typical sensor errors so, I replaced them.

Recently, I determined that if you switch between the 2 (i have a dual unit) channels it works for a short while and when it tells you the sensor is dead, you just simply switch to the other port and it lets you finish the job. THAN IT DIES again.

I have 2 units and now BOTH don't work and I've purchased a THIRD LM2 just to make use of the sensors I already own till I figure out what to do next.

I've called MANY times and that wise ass kid tells me I'm doing something wrong and that "we've never had any issues with the LM2". BULLSHIT!

The kid also denys that Innovate ever admitted problems with the early ones. Funny thing is they shipped me a new one NO QUESTIONS ASKED without even a receipt! Yeah Right, you never heard of an LM2 with problems!:bs:

Guys with LC1s and LM1s NEVER have sensor problems! But the LM2 always think the sensor is no good. If you plug a sensor into one port, It says E2 like the circuit is open....Plug it into the other port and it works for a bit...then fails....Switch back to the first port and you get it working for some time.

Think I'm PISSED! 20 sensors later, Yeah! I'm pissed!

How much time have I wasted?!?!!

I've given all of my information to my attorney (who loves thin kinda shit:hihi:) and he's gonna call them today.

In this thread, I'd like to start collecting all the names of guys not happy with the LM2. I'll do what I can to help you get fixed up!

Keep it coming guys! What are you using?
Chuck CoW

[eficalibrator]

It's my opinion that good analog data still trumps questionable data relayed over a serial bus.

As a professional calibrator, I use professional equipment from ECM. Specifically, the LambdaPro (http://www.ecm-co.com/product.asp?lpro). I know that not everyone is going to spend $3500 on a wideband, but I do this for a living. They also offer more reasonably priced units like the AFM1000 (http://www.ecm-co.com/product.asp?a1000). Those who really have to have serial can step up to an AFR1200 (http://www.ecm-co.com/product.asp?1200) and get a few more features as well.

The cost of piles of trashed sensors can easily justify a little extra up front for one of these good units. Heck, if Chuck just took the money he spent on the 20+ sensors recently, he could have already owned an AFM1000. The side effect is that all of a sudden, your data will be more accurate and less temperature dependent. Another nice bonus is that ECM gives a significant discount to people who have taken my training classes.

If you're just an enthusiast looking for a decent unit for your own car, I'd recommend the NGK AFX since it's actually made by ECM as well. Both the AFX and ECM units are able to use either the Bosch or NGK production sensors with proper recalibration. It's not the fault of the sensor that most cheap widebands fail, but rather the cheap controller giving you your money's worth.

[GAMEOVER]

Where or what website can we check out those widebands?

[mr.prick]

Have you tried the newer firmware for the LM2?
The way Innovate does business sucks. :rippedhand:

IIRC someone mentioning the AFR1200 with serial,
ask Paul if it is or will be supported.

[Chuck CoW]

Have you tried the newer firmware for the LM2?
The way Innovate does business sucks. :rippedhand:

IIRC someone mentioning the AFR1200 with serial,
ask Paul if it is or will be supported.

Yup... Did that already.

Chuck CoW

[GAMEOVER]

I tried the new firmware also and I think it made it worse...
What are we supposed to do with these paper weights if Innovative doesn't have an answer or solution. Damn!!! I tried all the sensor's(4 new one's and 2 that came with LM-2) on my LC-1 and they work just fine...LM-2 IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!....

[ChipsByAl]

I have had no problems with my LM1, sorry guys. The serial feature is important to me. I have seen the AFR fluctuate because of ground issues. Greg is the AFRecorder 1200 the $3500 meter that you referred to? ECM didn't have any pricing on their site.
Thanks,
Al

[ScarabEpic22]

Ive held off buying a WBO2 because everyone is complaining about Innovate's stuff really sucking right now.

Im liking the Tech Edge WBO2 but Ive heard Greg and a few others speak highly of the NGK one, anyone have a place I can buy one from?

[SSpdDmon]

Ive held off buying a WBO2 because everyone is complaining about Innovate's stuff really sucking right now.

Im liking the Tech Edge WBO2 but Ive heard Greg and a few others speak highly of the NGK one, anyone have a place I can buy one from?
www.google.com (http://www.google.com)

Think they're on eBay too.

[Chuck CoW]

The LM1 worked ok....somewhat...

The problem with it was that the power cord connection broke off the board 900 times or so...

Requiring me to stop my work and open er' up to repair it over and over again.

I do understand that the hobbyist or casual weekend tuner can have better results, but Innovate told me that this was a quality professional tool and quite simply, it's not working out that way.

Chuck CoW

[98 tigershark]

Does anyone know if anyone has had success with innovative as a professional unit that tunes as many cars as Chuck does? As a enthusiast the LC1 works for me. I have seen some very high end professional WBO2 recently on some auction sites. Check out the auctions Chuck. Maybe you can get the one Greg \eficalibrator uses at a decent price. Did you say it does or odes not work with EFILive? That has to suck.
Bt the way thanks for calling me back last month.
regards,
98 tigershark

[eficalibrator]

Maybe you can get the one Greg \eficalibrator uses at a decent price. Did you say it does or odes not work with EFILive?
I can assure you that the LambdaPro that I use works fine with EFILive, since I used it to tune my own C6 along with a few others so far. There is some question about ground loop noise, but I suspect that's partially dependent upon the quality of each unit's power supply and how many things you have in the loop. I saw no real offset when just using my Toughbook (w/12v cable), LPro, and EFILive.

[joecar]

Greg,

Does the LambdaPro have the ability to output Lambda via serial comms...

If it does, then Paul may be able to integrate it into V2 firmware.

[98 tigershark]

A great question Joe!! If Paul can integrate it w/V2 that would be something.
Cheers,
98 tigershark



Greg,

Does the LambdaPro have the ability to output Lambda via serial comms...

If it does, then Paul may be able to integrate it into V2 firmware.

[GAMEOVER]

I just got off the Phone again with Innovative Motorsports and they are no HELP at all...:cussing:
I swear I have to do a free-air-calibration every day now!!! It freezes with every 5-10 minutes of use...:wtf1:

[Chuck CoW]

I now have 3 LM2s.... and they all SUCK!

3rd unit sucks right out of the box.

Yeah, had my attorney call Innovate the other day....

After that, I spoke with the controller of the company and after bitching to him, he offered me $500. if I returned my innovate stuff to him.

I was like..."...$500. for $2,000 worth of equipment?!?!?!?!?!?"

Pretty classy company! Their line is always..."..Well Chuck, this is the first time of hearing about problems with our LM2..."

BULLSHIT! It's very clear that more than 1 tuner is having problems with their LM2.

I'm gonna purchase 2 new Tech Edge widebands this week....If they work without problems, Innovate is gonna get a surprise visit...he he.

Chuck CoW

[mr.prick]

WOW! for $2k you could of got one of them fancy gass huffin' doohickies.
Take the $500 in exchange and buy a flamethrower or a shotgun. :devil_2:

[eficalibrator]

$2k buys you a brand new ECM AFM1000 along with a handful of replacement sensors that would probably last you several years... :angel_innocent:

[Chuck CoW]

$2k buys you a brand new ECM AFM1000 along with a handful of replacement sensors that would probably last you several years... :angel_innocent:

I know...I know.... One thing I remembered is that you seem to like the analog inputs and I've had nothing but trouble with them.

After all the agonizing problems with the analog inputs I don't think I'll ever use anything but the serial inputs.:fluffy:

Also, I need to have 2 or 3 widebands cause I always have multiple jobs going on and can't be moving the tool from car to car and re-calibrating for different sensors.

If these units do the job, I'll buy more. I've talked to many users who are quite happy with them and have spoke to many people unhappy with the innovate stuff.

Hopefully this stuff passes the test as I'm not a casual user and if they're not up to the job, I'll find out soon enough!

Chuck CoW

[GMPX]

I know...I know.... One thing I remembered is that you seem to like the analog inputs and I've had nothing but trouble with them.Chuck, it looks like they have another model that has RS-232 communications, the AFM-1500.

[Cablebandit]

i use the dynojet wideband commander

[joecar]

It seems ECM have two serial-comms-able models, AFM1500 and FA1500, they appear to be the same thing with different labels (specs are the same).

I asked Paul if V2 can support that.

[GMPX]

If they publish the data stream specs (which I am sure they would) then we can easily add support for any make.

[Highlander]

I have been using the LM1 for the past 2 years... not many issues whatsoever. I did have the problem if the power connector being broken off on one of my units, that made me do a tantra and practically DESTROY the unit against the floor.

It still works after soldering the power connector...

Still.. I am getting a few spikes lately that I am unsure if it's the LM1 or it's the V2. I guess i need more testing.

[mr.prick]

Do you use serial or analog with the LM1?
I have found the analog quite bouncy and can be
slightly different from serial what data shows. (LC-1)
Maybe this is because there is another ground with serial connected to something.

[Chuck CoW]

Do you use serial or analog with the LM1?
I have found the analog quite bouncy and can be
slightly different from serial what data shows. (LC-1)
Maybe this is because there is another ground with serial connected to something.

Analog never worked for me......I used the LM1 and LM2(s):wallbash: serial and they worked good...no glitches.

Serial plug ripped out of the LM2(s) TWICE!

Chuck CoW

[Highlander]

any updates?

[Chuck CoW]

Scrapped my 4 Innovate LM2s.... Pieces of GARBAGE.

Went thru at least 50 sensors this year... Another vendor told me that Innovate OVERHEATS the sensor and the Bosch sensor they

use is very fragile.... (yes, this benefits them directly)

I've since been using a Tech Edge with the same sensors and so far I am VERY HAPPY! I'll be ordering more..... Possibly switching to the NTK sensor....

I'll keep you posted.

Chuck CoW

[gmh308]

Go the TechEdge! Had one full time in the beasty for almost 3 years now.

[eficalibrator]

Chuck, when are you going to stop using kids' toys for professional work and actually get REAL equipment? We've been over this before at least 10 times...

[JOHNBOY]

Who sells Tech Edge in the US? I could not find anyone when I was looking. To run the NTK sensor you need a 3series TechEdge. I could not find a US distributor earlier this year.

I look into this ealier in the year. Widebands that use NTK sensor.

FJO Gen3
NGK AFX
ECM AFM1500/AFM1540

The NGK has no provision for serial logging. Deal breaker for me.

FJO can run NTK and has serial output. Getting one can be hit or miss as FJO has been bought out by Holley. Not that they where great about keeping up stock anyway. They are well made and robust.

ECM great product and support. Just not cheap. The AFM1500 is NTK only and the AFM1540 can run bosch sensors also.

[J.Abbott]

Been there done that, didn't get fooled by the LM2. Every piece of innovate stuff I had went into the trash. Greg got me hooked up with ECM, have been using a AFM1500 with the serial output since and it is awesome. I have no issues and it is easy to cal and very accurate and very stable.

[gmh308]

Who sells Tech Edge in the US? I could not find anyone when I was looking. To run the NTK sensor you need a 3series TechEdge. I could not find a US distributor earlier this year.


Just mail order it. That's mostly what the rest of the planet does :).

[gmh308]

Chuck, when are you going to stop using kids' toys for professional work and actually get REAL equipment? We've been over this before at least 10 times...

ROFL :w00t::mrgreen: