Still Pinging

[eclispe1]

I could use some major help on my timing tables, I have pulled tons of timing down to 14 and still get the pinging under boost. I do have meth set to come in at 3lbs of boost. The motor is stock with with a powerdyne supercharger around 5-6 lbs of boost in a 99 camaro ls1 z/28. Trans is a built 4l65e. I have been trying to tune this thing for two years now and I'm at my wits end, we don't even have a professional tuner in my area that I could take it to. I'm so afraid that the motor will be scrap metal soon if I don't get this right, I don't even enjoy driving this beautiful car anymore because I'm too nervous about damaging the motor. I know my fuel tables are off as well I could never get that right either, I just started from complete scratch this week and not going very well. I will post the tune and a recent log. The air temp in south Fl is around 96 when this log was done, typical weather here most of the time. Any help I could get would be greatly apreciated as I have put a ton of time in this and still not running right.

[LS1_Dragster]

Your tun looks totaly whacky to me! I wouldnt drive it until you get it fixed. There are a ton of tun files to get you started here: http://www.holdencrazy.com/EFILive/modifiedTunes.php

Your commanded AFR is way off with table B3647, you are commanding leaner with RPM and load!! B0101 is messed and so is A0009. There are so many issues it would be best to download a tun that closely matches yours.

Lee

[joecar]

Hi eclipse1...

OUCH...:eek:

B3647 is wrong and dangerous to your motor...
it seems your B3647 was with Lambda units being interpreted as AFR or EQ...
this is bad as it places the AFR dangerously lean everywhere... :bawl:
Goto Edit->Properties->Commanded Fuel Values and set Display In to AFR or EQ.

Your logs confirm that Lambda units were being interpreted as EQ units, as throttle is opened the commanded AFR goes above 16 (while your actual AFR stays around 14+ which is too lean for load)...

This means that:
- B3647 must be edited to the correct values;
- B0101 has to be redone from scratch.

When redoing the VE table, don't initially bump it bu 15%... think about you mods and bump it accordingly... e.g. say 8%... also set B3647 sufficiently rich for boost in the high columns.


What injectors do you have...?
Is the IFR table correct for the injectors...?
It seems low, but this has probably saved you from going leaner
(lower IFR table means PCM has to open injectors longer).


Also, with COS3/COS5 the high/low octane table sliding is operational, so you should set the LO table B5914 lower than the HO table B5913 to provide adaptive timing if knock is persisting.

Looks like your HO/LO tables are Z06 tables...
You should probably set these back to the Camaro tables, and remove some timing to allow for boost.
What cam do you have....?


You should also do this (this will firm up shifts and prevent the trans from slipping):
- raise shift pressure tables D0701, D0702, D0703 (make these a line starting from zero and sloping up to 90+ psi at 369 ftlb),
- reduce shift time tables D1108, D109, D1110 (make these 0.3 s or 0.2 s).


Also look at this:
A0001, A0002, A0011, A0012 are out-of-range, fix these...
set A0001, A0002 to 99, set A0012, A0013 to 511, then save file, exit tunetool, reopen tunetool, set them back to their repective max values (100, 100, 512, 512).


Sorry for the red ink, but it is drastic...!!!


I can see why you're not happy with the car.

Regards
Joe

[eclispe1]

Thank you Joe I have made the changes and will try out later today!

[joecar]

Post your changed tune file.

[eclispe1]

Here is the updated tune file, I have not tried it in the car yet

[LS1_Dragster]

Much better. Do you have a 2 Bar MAP sensor?

[eclispe1]

No I don't yet. I'm not sure which one to use for the Camaro

[LS1_Dragster]

You really need to get one to do it right. I have no idea what you should get but maybe you'll find the answer here: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction-9/

[eclispe1]

I made two short runs around town and the car is running much better. I'm still getting a ton of KR and pinging when on the boost. My high timing table is from a tune with twin turbo at 10lbs boost so I would think that should be fine as I'm only at 6lbs with a centrifugal supercharger but no intercooler. Meth injection at around 3lbs and it is working as my tank level drops with every run. If I could just get the timing set correctly this car would be awesome. Also for all of you F Body owners do not get the powerdyne kit, it is not designed very well, I have to turn off the ac at lights so it does not overheat and I even bought the highest output spal fans I could find and the headunit had to be rebuilt with less than 5k mi on it.
Attached are the two log files from today. it was a little cooler today at 90 degrees so maybe that helped it run better.

Greg

[LS1_Dragster]

You have more balls then me! I would never ever flog a supercharged vehicle without having a safe tune in place first and even then I would make short low RPM runs, correct the problems then take it to the next step and keep doing that until it's right. I think the water injection is saving your butt.

On the last log you hit 14.31 AFR under boost, I'm not sure why your engine is still running.

I'm coming across harshly but honestly, I wouldn't even run the car NA until the tune was safe. Pull the belt and get it tuned NA first then put the belt back on and tune it slowly under boost. Get a 2 bar MAP sensor and setup the fuel and timing MAP's correctly or say good bye to your engine.....

[joecar]

What injectors do you have...? Is your IFR correct for those injectors...?


Some notes:
- do not do AutoVE on the semi-open-loop (SOL) cells (EQ 1.00 in B3647) since the STFT's are correcting ahead of you;
- if you're doing AutoVE, then disable SOL (set the EQ 1.00 cells in B3647 to EQ1.01);
- any cell in B3647 set to EQ 1.00 will enable SOL while operating from that cell;
- EQ 1.00 is your stoichiometric AFR as defined in B3601;


My personal preferences:

I would set the 2nd and 3rd last columns in B3647 equal to the last column, and ramp up to there from the rest of the table... also, consider this: if you're at very low rpm (say held in manual 2nd) and you go WOT what AFR do you want...?

If you're going to make significant torque, bump up the shift pressure tables (make a straight line from (0 psi, 0 ftlb) all the way upto (90 psi, 369 psi) and then level it of there.

make the shift time tables 0.3 or 0.2 seconds all across... if the shifts are too harsh, then increase the shift torque reduction tables.

[eclispe1]

I have the stock 99 ls1 injectors and I have no idea what the IFR is.
Is it safe to up the pressures in a trans with a shift kit? I went 10% higher than stock and took the shift times down by 10% it was shifting much better, went sideways when hit second and trac control on.
I really don't know what afr to shoot for at wot again I just went from the twin turbo file on Holdens web site.
I feel the car is running much better now but I know it not nealy done.
I will make the changes so I won't hit SOL and see how that works.

Thanks Again,
Greg

[joecar]

Depends on the shift kit... you would be ok at +10%... the only way to know is to measure the pressure at the tap on the LHS of the case... to be safe max pressure should not go over something like 220 psi... how much different do the shifts feel at +10% compared to previous...?

You can increase the torque reduction tables to help with the loss of traction (and this also protects your driveline).

[eclispe1]

the shifts feel much quicker but not too harsh