V2 Basics

[All-Star]

I am new to efi live and have been reading forums and familiarizing my self with the V2 software and am having trouble with the basics. I have a 2000 Z28 that we bought with a nitrous tune already installed. I am mainly just trying to adjust the timing for starters. My problem is getting the changes from my calibration tables to the PCM. I just want to change the timing on the General Spark table. I made the adjustments and saved the tune. Then I pressed the Flash calibration key and it went through all the procceses but made no changes to Horse power on the Dyno. I have Full access to a Mustang Dyne, and is where i am doing all my testing. I feel i am missing a step. Do i need to build maps on the Scan tool in order to change my tune. any help or direction would be greatly appreciated...:help2:

[mr.prick]

Just because you didn't see any change horsepower
does not mean the tune didn't change.
You don't need maps to make changes to the tune,
they are part of the whole package in order to make meaningful changes.
If you are not seeing any increase in power the tune may be all it can be.

Also don't be surprised if logged spark does not match exactly
what you want to command.
If you have not already, read the scan & tune manuals and the other
documentation located in C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Doc

[All-Star]

the timing was set at 20 deg advance above 2800rpm, we made adjustments back to what a NA car should be at like 34-36 deg. just from general knowledge about tuning we expected to see a fairly significant change... and saw none. so i was uncertain that the tune was actually flashed to the pcm...

[mr.prick]

Read the PCM (Ctrl+PgUp) green arrow then compare to the tune you
previously uploaded, to see if there is no difference.

[All-Star]

When i read the PCM, it shows the map that i flashed into it... I am only changing the High Octane map, do I need to change low as well?

[SSpdDmon]

the timing was set at 20 deg advance above 2800rpm, we made adjustments back to what a NA car should be at like 34-36 deg. just from general knowledge about tuning we expected to see a fairly significant change... and saw none. so i was uncertain that the tune was actually flashed to the pcm...
WOW!!! 34~36*?!?!?!? General SBC knowledge doesn't = general LS1 knowledge. Unless you're way above sea level, I can imagine needing that much timing. 2000's and in general, cam'd LS1's, usually have somewhere close to 28* of timing at WOT. Where are you making the changes in the table specifically? Are you logging the car before hand to see where the car performs (what kind of grams/cyl of airflow it's seeing at each RPM)? This is what tells you where the changes are to be made. Did you log it after to make sure you're not getting massive amounts of knock and that the timing changes you made are actually coming through the PCM?

Post up the tune and let someone look at it.

[All-Star]

Sorry very new to this, not sure how to Post a tune??? And thanks for the info on the timing, But no i have not been logging all the data. just saving a tune and flashing it. just have yet to build the maps for the scan tool, still a little new to efi tuning. but the timing changes were made above 2800rpm and .44 grams/cyl. in the High Octane map, only. I am not sure about the knock or air flow. Still just trying to figure the software out. but what we really noticed was the timing at those same rpm & air flow was set to 20* of timing... thought that would be an easy place to make changes & see a difference. At this point we were unsure how to make changes to PCM and assumed we could see them by adjusting the timing...

[All-Star]

WOW!!! 34~36*?!?!?!? General SBC knowledge doesn't = general LS1 knowledge. Unless you're way above sea level, I can imagine needing that much timing. 2000's and in general, cam'd LS1's, usually have somewhere close to 28* of timing at WOT. Where are you making the changes in the table specifically? Are you logging the car before hand to see where the car performs (what kind of grams/cyl of airflow it's seeing at each RPM)? This is what tells you where the changes are to be made. Did you log it after to make sure you're not getting massive amounts of knock and that the timing changes you made are actually coming through the PCM?

Post up the tune and let someone look at it.

we are going to run a couple more pulls on the dyno and thhis time i will log before and after to see what air flow is doing... but still need more info on how to post a tune... thanks...

[SSpdDmon]

When you reply to a post, click the Go Advanced button. Near the bottom, click Manage Attachments. This should open a window with a Browse button. You can use that button to find the file where you saved it on your computer. Once you select the file, click the Upload button. Once it shows as a link, close the window and post the reply. :)

[All-Star]

here is a copy of the PCM base tune... the Map we have adjusted is the high octane map... noticced the spark advance seemed low above 2800rpm & .44 grams/cyl... are we correct?

[joecar]

You might want to log these:
VSS
RPM
TP
MAP
MAF
DYNAIR
DYNCYLAIR or DYNCYLAIR_DMA
AFR
LONGFT1
LONGFT2
SPARKADV
KR
ECT
IAT

and maybe a few others;

if you have auto trans, then also log TCCMODE and GEAR.

keep the pid channel count no bigger than 24 (gives 10 frames/second)... otherwise you will get fewer frames/second.

[All-Star]

You might want to log these:
VSS
RPM
TP
MAP
MAF
DYNAIR
DYNCYLAIR or DYNCYLAIR_DMA
AFR
LONGFT1
LONGFT2
SPARKADV
KR
ECT
IAT

and maybe a few others;

if you have auto trans, then also log TCCMODE and GEAR.

keep the pid channel count no bigger than 24 (gives 10 frames/second)... otherwise you will get fewer frames/second.


thanks i think i have all of those PIDs... just dont have them mapped out yet in the scan tool... But i will de select a couple to keep my frame rate up... thanks

[All-Star]

I have also been having an intermitant problem with my data on the scan tool... as of right now my data & gauges on dashboard are showing -31 deg of timing/ 64*F ECT /23% Throttle. and they wont move no matter what i do. I have tried to close the software, restart PC, reconnect OBD. And yes i am recording/ logging data. Still no changes. is there a software problem, and hints would be very useful... thanks alot.

[mr.prick]

SSpdDmon probably though you meant 34~36* @ WOT, :eek:
not preferred in the higher airflow ranges but OK in the lower.

[All-Star]

SSpdDmon probably though you meant 34~36* @ WOT, :eek:
not preferred in the higher airflow ranges but OK in the lower.

Well he assumed right... at least that is what i was hoping to do... but now i know i was wrong. but i did not hear any spark knock or clattering.. but that was a cchange of 14* of timing and there was virtually no change of horse power on the dyno... good or bad i expected to see some kind of substantial change...

[All-Star]

I have also been having an intermitant problem with my data on the scan tool... as of right now my data & gauges on dashboard are showing -31 deg of timing/ 64*F ECT /23% Throttle. and they wont move no matter what i do. I have tried to close the software, restart PC, reconnect OBD. And yes i am recording/ logging data. Still no changes. is there a software problem, and hints would be very useful... thanks alot.

Also another note, i put my Gynesis OBDII scantool, datastreem, on the car and none of these readings were actually what was in the PCM... so not sure what kind of problem i have with the EFI Live software???

[joecar]

Post a log file.

What build version of EFILive software are you running (did you get it from the www.efilive.com downloads page...?)

[SSpdDmon]

Quick feedback before my laptop battery dies...

Please post up a list of what's done to the car. I'm assuming cam? Whoever tuned it before you did some things I wouldn't suggest to my worst enemy (i.e. turned KR off in PE). Once we understand what you have, we can guide you on where you need to be.

As for the scanner not reading correctly...you have to start it up after you connect to the PCM. Are you doing this? I don't have v7.5 on this laptop...but assume the shortcuts are the same. F3 to start logging and F4 to stop.

Here's a copy of a stock tune. Save it to your computer to refer back to. You can open your tune and load this in the background by loading it as an alternate calibration for comparison (under File menu). Click the two red arrows at the top (just below Calibration) to see a list of what the differences are. If you double click on one of the items, it'll take you to that table. Hold Ctrl and hit:
4 to see current file settings
5 to see alternate file (stock in this case) settings
6 to see +/- differences
7 to see % differences

Let us know what's done to the car and we can go from there. :)

[All-Star]

Quick feedback before my laptop battery dies...

Please post up a list of what's done to the car. I'm assuming cam? Whoever tuned it before you did some things I wouldn't suggest to my worst enemy (i.e. turned KR off in PE). Once we understand what you have, we can guide you on where you need to be.

As for the scanner not reading correctly...you have to start it up after you connect to the PCM. Are you doing this? I don't have v7.5 on this laptop...but assume the shortcuts are the same. F3 to start logging and F4 to stop.

Here's a copy of a stock tune. Save it to your computer to refer back to. You can open your tune and load this in the background by loading it as an alternate calibration for comparison (under File menu). Click the two red arrows at the top (just below Calibration) to see a list of what the differences are. If you double click on one of the items, it'll take you to that table. Hold Ctrl and hit:
4 to see current file settings
5 to see alternate file (stock in this case) settings
6 to see +/- differences
7 to see % differences

Let us know what's done to the car and we can go from there. :)


Thanks for the base tune, that will help compare what we have... but as far as the Engine, it currently has .600 lift cam & LS6 ported heads, cheapo headers and muffler... we believe the tune that is on the PCM now was for a 200hp shot of nitrous... we are just trying to get back to a NA tune...

[All-Star]

Post a log file.

What build version of EFILive software are you running (did you get it from the www.efilive.com downloads page...?)


I am running EFI live V7.4.2(build 657)

[mr.prick]

I am running EFI live V7.4.2(build 657)

With the V2?!
That is way outdated.

[joecar]

Have a read of this carefully (see attached) before doing anything...

If you fully understand the whole document, then you may download/install the software from here: EFILive software download page (http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=133).

You need both V7.5 build 88 and V8.1 build 58.

The V2 bootblock/firmware update process will work correctly only if you understand the attached document.

[All-Star]

Have a read of this carefully (see attached) before doing anything...

If you fully understand the whole document, then you may download/install the software from here: EFILive software download page (http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=133).

You need both V7.5 build 88 and V8.1 build 58.

The V2 bootblock/firmware update process will work correctly only if you understand the attached document.

well i read through the attached update processes but, i can't say i understand all of it, i have never used bootblock or black box logging. I do understand how to install and up date according to the instructions in the update process. Is that enough to proceed with the updates.? Or do i need to do more forum searching about how to use Bootlock & BB logging... So far i have not needed to log any data into the Flash scan. all data acquired has been live data on a Dyno. I understand that inorder to fully tune driveabilty issues i will need to but so far i have not reached the point where i fully comprehend the scan & tune software... It has been a very complex process so far & i feel i have barely scratched the surface. I am just tryingto get as much info as i can along the way. Out of curiousity what is my other option as far as getting the updated software.?

[joecar]

Reread the doc and ask questions here... which part(s) are you not clear on...?

What version firmware does your V2 currently have...?

[All-Star]

Reread the doc and ask questions here... which part(s) are you not clear on...?

What version firmware does your V2 currently have...?

V2 currently has Firmware Version 2.04.70/ Boot Lock version 2.04.10
Honestly I don't know what Bootlock or BB logging is, or at least have not used them thus far. BB logging as i understand is just logging data on the flash scan device, while driving, then used to bring data back to the PC so you can make changes... correct? Other than not know what exactly they are or are used for no major questions the update process seams fairly straight forward... But until then i plan on learning more about BB & BL just limited on time currently... Is it required to use the Flash Scan device in order to actually flash ECM, so far i have not used it for anything other than a cable from ECM to PC... any extra info would be helpful...

[joecar]

BBL (black box logging) is simply V2 logging to SD card without laptop... V2 is then taken from vehicle and brought indoors to a PC where you can view the logged data.

BBR (black box reading) is V2 reading the PCM and saving to SD card.

BBF (black box flashing) is V2 flashing the PCM from a file stored on SD card (this is the next big feature, not ready yet).


V2 can still be used in "passthru" mode with a PC to log and read/write the PCM; you don't have to do BBL if you don't want to; once the BBL interface is finalized there will be plenty of material in the forum on how to use it.


V2 has two components: bootblock and firmware -> these are described in the doc.


Ok, if you understand the update process, the you may proceed, just follow the doc step-by-step.


(the update is required in order to use the new V7.5 software... the new V7.5 software has fixes/updates that may fix your original problem).

[ScarabEpic22]

To add to what joecar said, you need to run the update program for V7.5 and V8 (in the start menu folder) and update your bootblock FIRST then the firmware to the latest. This will help with any bug fixes that have been taken care of.

[All-Star]

BBL (black box logging) is simply V2 logging to SD card without laptop... V2 is then taken from vehicle and brought indoors to a PC where you can view the logged data.

BBR (black box reading) is V2 reading the PCM and saving to SD card.

BBF (black box flashing) is V2 flashing the PCM from a file stored on SD card (this is the next big feature, not ready yet).


V2 can still be used in "passthru" mode with a PC to log and read/write the PCM; you don't have to do BBL if you don't want to; once the BBL interface is finalized there will be plenty of material in the forum on how to use it.


V2 has two components: bootblock and firmware -> these are described in the doc.


Ok, if you understand the update process, the you may proceed, just follow the doc step-by-step.


(the update is required in order to use the new V7.5 software... the new V7.5 software has fixes/updates that may fix your original problem).

I have finally found the time to do the update process everything has been successful minus one issue... i am about update my firmware from 2.04.72 to firmware 2.05.20 but it doesn't exist in my files i only have 2.05.21... it says to update to .20 before updating to the latest BL.. is it ok to use version 2.05.21???? :help2:

I

[joecar]

I believe 2.05.21 is ok... see attached, it shows a table of compatible firmware versions.

[mr.prick]

You updated the boot block too right?

If FlashScan has boot block V2.04.xx or earlier, please perform these steps:
1. Program firmware V2.04.72.
2. Use FlashScan’s menu option to upgrade the boot block to V2.05.08.
3. Program firmware V2.05.20
4. Go to step D.

I don't have FW 2.05.20 in my archive, that maybe a typo or
was not available to the masses.

[All-Star]

You updated the boot block too right?


I don't have FW 2.05.20 in my archive, that maybe a typo or
was not available to the masses.

Yes i updated firmware to 2.04.72 and bootblock to 2.05.08. was about to update firmware then boot block when this issue came up. thanks again for the help Mr. Prick & joecar.:cheers:

P.S. Joecar I found your "library" of misc threads to research it has been very helpful... :rockon:

[ScarabEpic22]

2.05.08 is an old bootblock, upgrade to 2.06.02 then get fw 2.06.16

[All-Star]

2.05.08 is an old bootblock, upgrade to 2.06.02 then get fw 2.06.16

Thanks, yeah i was just making sure that the firmware i was programing was correct at that stage of the reprograming... but i am fully up to date... w/ above listed...:cheers:

[joecar]

Good job...:cheers: