Cummins development progresses

[GMPX]

Just in time for the SEMA Show, EFILive is pleased to announce Cummins 2006+ BBR (Black Box Reading). At present this software enhancement is in restricted BETA only.

A requirement of our new V8 software core is to allow us to adapt EFILive to any make of ECM rather than being tied to specific GM models.

On and off we have been spending R&D time on the Cummins Diesel ECM's (and others) inconjunction with our V8 software project. We've hit some hurdles along the way (including hardware issues), but have had some major wins as well. As our V8 software develops so will many other exciting projects.

At this point of time ONLY BBR reading functionality is being tested. We have no development time frame for tuning or scanning - this initial release is really to ensure our requirements for V8 work as designed. Our BETA test isn't being extended to anyone who currently isn't apart of our BETA program at this point of time.

Vehicles covered in this test include
2006 - 2009 5.9L
2007 - 2010 6.7L

So, if you're coming to SEMA come down to booth 21754 and discuss our Cummins developments with the EFILive team Ross and Paul will both be on hand to discuss our products, and while in the USA, they will also be doing extensive Cummins testing.

We plan to release this update in public once we are happy it's all working 100%.

Cheer,
Ross

[mr.prick]

It's nice to see EFILive expanding supported vehicles. ;)

[ScarabEpic22]

Wonder how many rental car places rent Cummins trucks...hehe

[07dodge]

From a Cummins guy, I just want to say thanks!!

I have no idea what the "Black Box Reading" is or means, but if this is like the EFILive for the Duramax, your gonna have a winner on your hands when the tuning/logging is finalized!

I need to learn more about EFI now...:rockon:

[GMPX]

It's really just a small piece of the puzzle 07dodge. But it's a start and the exercise at this early stage was to ensure our new software core that will replace our current software in 2010 is happy to work with non GM platforms.
The Black Box Reading is simply a test for our hardware to be able to read the contents out of the ECM in the vehicle. Sounds simple, but it's full of tricks to get right and we needed to test this before progressing.
In the time we've spent with the Cummins we have learnt a fair amount on that ECM which can only lead to good things down the track.

[Sandaholic]

I have some questions.

1. From what I understand there are only 2 people who actually are working on Efi-live's......projects (for lack of knowing what to call them). Is that correct?

2. If there was a bunch of interest from the Cummins market would it push you at all to be more active with developing tuning capabilities for us?

3. If you were to get this done would the tuning parameter's and aspects be similar to what is offered for the Duramax? At the same cost?

4. Could you explain or post a link to an explanation to Black Box Reading

I understand much of your answers may just be speculation, but when there's nothing else to do............I like to speculate :hihi:

[chrleb2]

What about older trucks? Are you guys going to do 03-05s? This is very nice to hear more support for the Cummins motor.

[GMPX]

I have some questions.

1. From what I understand there are only 2 people who actually are working on Efi-live's......projects (for lack of knowing what to call them). Is that correct? That is correct, just two of us. But there is more than two in the company, but for R&D and software there is two.


2. If there was a bunch of interest from the Cummins market would it push you at all to be more active with developing tuning capabilities for us?Probably not, if we didn't think there was interest we would not have gone as far as we have with them. Our resellers and users give us a pretty good idea on what we need to try to expand in to so we already know what is popular.


3. If you were to get this done would the tuning parameter's and aspects be similar to what is offered for the Duramax? At the same cost?We would certainly aim to offer as much tuning support as the Duramax has, but of course being an ECM designed by a different company not everything will be the same.
We are not about to take advantage of people on price, though nothing has been set yet. But it would probably be along similar lines to the Duramax.


4. Could you explain or post a link to an explanation to Black Box ReadingBlack box reading is simply a term to describe our hardware reading the contents of an ECM without the need for a PC. Whilst this sounds trivial, the process of doing this is the foundation of our new software to replace the current version 7.


What about older trucks? Are you guys going to do 03-05s? This is very nice to hear more support for the Cummins motor.I can't give you can exact answer at this stage as they use the SCI bus, not CAN. But the CAN models (2006+) will be given development preference at this stage.

Cheers,
Ross

[07dodge]

Thanks for the info Ross

This is certainly long-awaited good news in the Cummins world. Yall almost made me buy a GMC so I could play with EFI....I realize its likely a ways off yet, but its still better than nothing.

You guys have a heck of a product. Keep up the good work :good:

[Sandaholic]

Thanks for the quick response........now get back to work :grin:

[XLR8R]

No chance of this being in the wild before next year's season?

[Sparky8370]

This going to be pretty sweet. But the bad part is, it takes a tactical advantage away from the duramaxes.

[husker_diesel]

I think this is great... Let me know if I can assist in any way on the R&D...

:cucumber:

[mattpopp]

Its about time. The Diesel shop that I use uses the EFI on pretty every D-max that comes through and he loves it. I just need him to get this when and if it comes out.

[BSwope]

This is GREAT NEWS fellas!!! Keep up the great work guys, Im excited!!:good:

[CATCRACKER]

I will guarantee you will sell more EFI's to dodge folks than chevys by far. Mark those words down.

I have 10 friends I would make buy it tommorow.

I will help if i can

[skneeland]

this is awesome news. its all the buzz on the cummins boards(pretty extreme when folks will consider upgrading vehicles to something that will be programmable i think)
i think its rattled the programmer companies as well, it seems they are scambling to beat you to the punch with something comparable.

[DURAtotheMAX]

I will guarantee you will sell more EFI's to dodge folks than chevys by far. Mark those words down

ok dude. noted.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I will guarantee you will sell more EFI's to dodge folks than chevys by far. Mark those words down.

I have 10 friends I would make buy it tommorow.

I will help if i can

There is already a similiar program for DODGE guys out there, and last I checked no many were buying it.

[BSwope]

There is already a similiar program for DODGE guys out there, and last I checked no many were buying it.

You have $5-15K to spend on the Bosch standalone???????????? I have a feeling ya dont just the same as most of us.....

This info was posted by DPDiesel..... On CompD
We haven't finalized in pricing but here is some ballpark pricing.

Sport With Harness and Installation Kit - $5,500-$6,500

15.1 With Harness and Installation Kit - $12,500-$14,000

Again, these are not final prices but they are gonna be somewhere in this range.

The Sport setup we are doing can be used for any truck. It will work in conjunction with your stock computer so that daily driving is a reality and can even be used for mileage gains.
Report Post Reply With Quote



So I wonder why there isnt alot of us buying it!!!!!!!!!!

[CATCRACKER]

lets put it this way almost all good dodge programmers are around 600-800 and they all have there good and bad points. Smarty is the only one that asked for input when creating their programmer and that why the have fierce loyalty. Macro needs to table all other projects and notice whats happening. The EFI will be all things to all people and more. The potential for this prgrammer is to dominate 75% of the Dodge market. I want to be a dealer if this ever arrives because it will revolutionize the dodge market.

One the other hand i sense a little jelousy from the GM guys on here. Whats up with that? EFI has noticed the others standing in line...we have been patient ask others to do it no one would and now we have a shot just calm down.

:fluffy: waiting along with 30,000 others

[BSwope]

lets put it this way almost all good dodge programmers are around 600-800 and they all have there good and bad points. Smarty is the only one that asked for input when creating their programmer and that why the have fierce loyalty. Macro needs to table all other projects and notice whats happening. The EFI will be all things to all people and more. The potential for this prgrammer is to dominate 75% of the Dodge market. I want to be a dealer if this ever arrives because it will revolutionize the dodge market.

One the other hand i sense a little jelousy from the GM guys on here. Whats up with that? EFI has noticed the others standing in line...we have been patient ask others to do it no one would and now we have a shot just calm down.

:fluffy: waiting along with 30,000 others

Sensing jealousy.... I would have disagreed but I was just on Duramax Diesels and HOLLY CRAP.... them boys on there are freakin out about this! They had me laughing the whole time I was reading what they had to say about this!!!!!!!!

Like I said before keep up the great work and I cant wait!!!!!!!!!!!:rockon:

[The Neens]

Sensing jealousy.... I would have disagreed but I was just on Duramax Diesels and HOLLY CRAP.... them boys on there are freakin out about this!

Some boys, not all:bs:

I welcome this new endeavor for EFI Live, should step up the competition for sure...

[Sparky8370]

I was joking when I said that about taking the tactical advantage from GM. I have asked before about Ford and Dodge support. I think it would be great to have EFI Live available to use on multiple brands. Especially if you use the same hardware and software. I think a lot of tuners would love only needing one product to tune multiple brands, and it would be their best value. I bet if EFI supported Dodge and Ford, you'd see tuners dropping some of the programs they use now in favor of EFI.

[jomobco]

Finally! I can tune my 5.7 and 6.7! Thank you!

[BSwope]

Finally! I can tune my 5.7 and 6.7! Thank you!

5.7..........???? You mean 5.9 right??

[jomobco]

5.7..........???? You mean 5.9 right??

No, 5.7 (chevy that I already tune with EFILive)

[jhawk]

so i understand that i can pull the tune out of my ecm, but if i have efi live software already and a v2 can i modify this tune and put it back into my ecm?

[Tordne]

Right now there is only the capability to read out the calibration. There is still a lot of work to be done to develop bootloaders, create the calibration maps for the ECM and OS types. Then not to mention a ton of testing.

[cummins6speed]

Are you still looking for beta testers? I would be happy to help out. EFI Live is probably the only other programmer I would sell my smarty for. I can't wait to see what is in store for us

[Tordne]

Presently there is nothing to test outside of EFILive's inhouse testing programme. We can successfully read the Cummins ECM, and will incorporate this into a future public software release. When data logging and tuning functionality is developed, a public announcement requesting BETA testers will be made.

[cummins6speed]

Alright, my buddy told me that you guys were looking for beta testers. He said you could sign up somewhere. Coincidentally he never responded when I said "where?"

[Tordne]

When we are further down the development path we will definitely be looking for people to be beta testers. Keep an eye on the forum in the coming months.

[cummins6speed]

I definitely will. I would love to beta test one and see what it is capable of.

I have been waiting for this for two years! lol

[TwinTurbo12v]

any updates??

[GMPX]

Nothing too exciting to announce on here, just chugging away at it. Actually, we've been really busy getting a new release ready for all the models we currently do including DSP5 for LBZ/LMM and custom OS's for the GM gassers. I know you don't care about that, but it's what we needed to get done before 2009 is done.

[TwinTurbo12v]

Nothing too exciting to announce on here, just chugging away at it. Actually, we've been really busy getting a new release ready for all the models we currently do including DSP5 for LBZ/LMM and custom OS's for the GM gassers. I know you don't care about that, but it's what we needed to get done before 2009 is done.

fair enough. :cheers:

I know quite a few people that will be excited when the DSP5 comes out for LBZ/LMM! In time, is the plan to use a DSP5 type switch for the 5.9?

[bballer182]

fair enough. :cheers:

I know quite a few people that will be excited when the DSP5 comes out for LBZ/LMM! In time, is the plan to use a DSP5 type switch for the 5.9?

It's already out and been out for quite a while as public BETA software.

[GMPX]

is the plan to use a DSP5 type switch for the 5.9?Oh no, DSP for Cummins already!! I don't know at this stage, it might not be possible.

[TwinTurbo12v]

Oh no, DSP for Cummins already!! I don't know at this stage, it might not be possible.

That's ok, figured I'd throw it out there.

Either way, if us cummins guys can get any sort of EFILive tuning, we'll be thrilled. :grin:

[L31Sleeper]

Well I have respect for you guys Ross and Paul, I just don't understand why
you wouldn't fill in the gaps in GM coverage before moving on to another make?

-Justin

[vortecfcar]

There are a lot of Cummins owners who'd be eager to buy V2's to tune their trucks as evidenced by EFILive's success in the Duramax world and all the chatter in the 5.9 HPCR world (no pun intended).

It's an attractive, lucrative market and it's commanding (or rather demanding) the product. All Ross and Paul have to do is build it.

A worthy use of development hours if I've ever seen it.

Nick

[TwinTurbo12v]

There are a lot of Cummins owners who'd be eager to buy V2's to tune their trucks as evidenced by EFILive's success in the Duramax world and all the chatter in the 5.9 HPCR world (no pun intended).

It's an attractive, lucrative market and it's commanding (or rather demanding) the product. All Ross and Paul have to do is build it.

A worthy use of development hours if I've ever seen it.

Nick

Going to get into the Cummins tuning game? CumminsTuner?? ;)

[vortecfcar]

I'm sure I'll get into it. Been messing with the VW TDI tuning stuff lately, but I'm sure I could find time for the Dodges once Cummins support goes BETA. Somebody bought Cumminstuner already.. hah! :)

[ScarabEpic22]

I'm sure I'll get into it. Been messing with the VW TDI tuning stuff lately, but I'm sure I could find time for the Dodges once Cummins support goes BETA. Somebody bought Cumminstuner already.. hah! :)

VW TDIs are sweet motors, the little 2.0L 4 bangers are cool but Im partial to the V12 TDI in the Toureg and now the Audi Q7.:fluffy:

[dodgeram082500]

cool deal looking forward to seeing what you guys can do with the cummins

[DoghouseDiesel]

Howdy folks!

Rich here from Doghouse Diesel Performance.

Just wanted to say hi and let the folks at EFI Live know that all use Cummins guys are eagerly waiting on some product news for suppport in the Cummins world.

My current ride is a 2006 twin-turbo'd, twin pumped, Cummins that is putting down 742 HP & 1456 lbs to the wheels........wonder what that would be with some EFI Live goodness on it.

Thanks for the hard work guys.

Waiting anxiously,
Rich

[cummins6speed]

Any updates for the cummins stuff?

[DURAtotheMAX]

guys......when they have an update they will tell us. Its not like they "forgot about the cummins stuff" and need reminders all the time. ;)

ben

[Sandaholic]

guys......when they have an update they will tell us. Its not like they "forgot about the cummins stuff" and need reminders all the time. ;)

ben
So says the dude that already has what he wants :doh2:

I'll gladly take an update :sly:

[Blacky]

We've not forgotten about Cummins tuning. Far from it, Cummins is very near to the top of our list of priorities, we are actively working on it. Once we have something interesting to share, we will.

:secret:for now.

Regards
Paul

[ILVSMOG]

Can't wait! My neighbor has a CR Dodge and askes me about it every time he sees me! :bash:

[GMPX]

Paul is right, other projects we had planned have been put on hold to make it happen.
As soon as we can post some sort of teaser screenshots we will.

[Sandaholic]

Right on!

[jpgmtech]

Oh yeah! Looking to jump on this bandwagon! I have Cummins customers lined up already...

:cucumber:

[dansdieselp]

I've got customers asking me about it all the time. Even have some beta testers lined up. Can't wait for it's release.

[vortecfcar]

Weird... everyone I talk to says they love their smoking, rattling, day-to-spoolup death stacks.

Then again, you might get lucky and sell a few.

FAQ #1: Can I stack my SMARTY,MP-8, and Edge box with EFILive?
Answer: http://deephousepage.com/smilies/spank2.gif

[GMPX]

I am planning on posting some screen shots this week, some teaser maps from the 5.9L, this is the engine we have been working on. We are also trying to get a new full install done ASAP which means lots of work on .calz files, so I am pretty tied up, but, my intention is to show some Cummins tables to prove this is real and happening.

The Cummins ECM's have been a real learning curve, it makes the Duramax's Bosch ECM look logical (and that's not praise), it's all pretty weird and certainly not designed for easy reverse engineering.

Cheers,
Ross

[Danton88]

Thanks for the update looking forward to this

[Blacky]

FAQ #1: Can I stack my SMARTY,MP-8, and Edge box with EFILive? Answer: http://deephousepage.com/smilies/spank2.gif

ROTFLMAO - I needed a good laugh. That smilie with the stick looks just like Ross when that question gets asked.

Paul

[DURAtotheMAX]

The Cummins ECM's have been a real learning curve, it makes the Duramax's Bosch ECM look logicals


HAHA!!! What!!?? :eek:

[joecar]

Ross called the Bosch ECM "logical"... (or he used those words in the same phrase)... :throw:

:)

[XLR8R]

Thanks for the update!

So is the Cummins Tuner BETA for the 5.9L or 6.7L?

[ScarabEpic22]

Ross called the Bosch ECM "logical"... (or he used those words in the same phrase)... :throw:

:)

He must be going insane looking at Cummins code then!:secret::help2::help2:

Ive heard from a few people online that the Cummins code is really wacky and hard to reverse engineer (as in harder than Bosch), so hearing it from Ross confirms this for me.

Now just cant wait to see some teaser screen shots!

[GMPX]

The concept of how they access tables is quite similar to Bosch. PowerPC can be tough because of the offsets used to access address's. The hard part I've found with the Cummins is the tables they use to 'get' address's are in some wacky order and it tends to point to tables and parameters all over the place.
For the designers, they don't care, the CPU doesn't care, it just works, but us poor sods trying to figure it out it follows no logic at all.
Now, the checksums are fun too, but we pretty much have those covered now (at least all the ones we've found).

Initial beta will be on the 5.9L ECM, the 6.7L is another level of difficult, we'd rather get one done then tackle the tough one last rather than try to climb Mt-Everest first.

[curtrwall]

Subscribed...

[JeromeGTO5.7]

Bump Just had a friend ask me when I would be able to do his 6.7 by the sound of it this could take a while

[Tordne]

Creating platform support unfortunately is not accomplished with a magic wand. Ross would be very happy if that was the case :).

[JeromeGTO5.7]

Heard that I admire you guys for sticking with it i love the product and keep up the good work

[L31Sleeper]

Well you guys are a good sized company right ??
Hire another ROSS !!! and if you have some money
left over another PAUL !!!

[Tordne]

Huh, no one want's another me :( LOL

[GAMEOVER]

Yes Andrew, I'll stick up for you....We also need another Andrew Dammit...:D!!!

[joecar]

Sure, I'll go along with that... how will we know the clone from the real person...?

[cumminsDK]

So about those "teaser" screenshots???

[vortecfcar]

I'm feeling pretty well teased, aren't you?

[JeromeGTO5.7]

LOL ill second that

[GMPX]

Yeah I know, sorry for the delay, getting the new release out took priority, just have to tidy up some post release issues and we should be good to go.

[Blacky]

For anyone that's interested, Ross has posted some screen shots here:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=13442

Regards
Paul

[Sandaholic]

You guys are awesome.

[D-Rock]

Didnt have time to read the whole thread. Which years are you in development for. 2004.5 - 2007?
Thanks guys!!

[Tordne]

Initially we a looking to support from 2006 onward.

Sorry Andrew, Ross jumping in to your post here.
2006 up are all CAN based ECM's, we will be supporting those first up, 5.9L first, 6.7L to follow. After that we will go back to the earlier non CAN ECM's (SCI bus), but only as far back as 2003. I think 2003 was the first year they used the PowerPC based CM846 ECM, anyhow it will be those.

[Laramie4x4]

I can't wait for this to release...

[DSALRAM]

Whats the latest on the cummins EFI?

[DURAtotheMAX]

Whats the latest on the cummins EFI?

the cummins already has EFI. Its had EFI since 1998 when the 24-valve came out.......

[cummins6speed]

Any recent updates?

[bballer182]

the cummins already has EFI. Its had EFI since 1998 when the 24-valve came out.......

:hihi:

[DURAtotheMAX]

:hihi:

seriously, that is probably my biggest pet peeve by a mile on the forums...I dont know why people abbreviate EFILive with "efi", and I dont know why it bothers me so much. I guess just the fact that im guessing 95% of the people (on the diesel forums mostly, because its so stupid easy to tune diesels that everyone and their brother has it, whereas on a gas engine, you actually have to know what you're doing...so its fair to say that anyone with a gas car who buys efilive is 'smarter' and more knowlegeable...its only the diesel forums) think that "EFILive", the "EFI" stands for someones name or something.

I guarantee if I went on the diesel place and asked "does anyone know what the 'efi' in EFILIve stands for?" 75% of them wouldnt have a clue. Or "does anyone know the meaning of the name "EFILIVE" and how Ross and Paul might have come up with it? I understand if people are lazy and dont want to type the whole "EFILive", but seriously, EFILive is just one of those things that you cant abbreviate, because saying "EFI" is totally different than saying "EFILive". You shouldnt abbreviate something if the abbreviated version has a different meaning. It not only makes you look ignorant, but it causes confusion too.

Hey nice duramax, you got EFI on that???? Um yeah, its had EFI since the day it rolled off the assembly line. UGH. :rolleyes:

Ben

[bballer182]

LMAO! that's funny bro!

[joecar]

+1... :laugh:

[GMPX]

Sorry, we didn't think of that on naming day, could have been worse, we could have called it the "programmatic specificity flasher".
Oh, I should add, we just had delivered the new updated V2's with the SCI bus support, so development can continue on full steam ahead with Cummins again.

[rcr1978]

Sorry, we didn't think of that on naming day, could have been worse, we could have called it the "programmatic specificity flasher".
Oh, I should add, we just had delivered the new updated V2's with the SCI bus support, so development can continue on full steam ahead with Cummins again.

So does this mean old V2 units will not work for cummins support when it's released?

[ScarabEpic22]

So does this mean old V2 units will not work for cummins support when it's released?

It means the CAN based Cummins can be read with existing V2s (based on a previous post) but 03?-05s are SCI Bus and will need to have the SCI bus updates (dont know if its just hardware or firmware, I assume both).

See Andrew's post: SCI/CAN Cummins support (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?12205-Cummins-development-progresses&p=119849&viewfull=1#post119849)

[Tordne]

It means the CAN based Cummins can be read with existing V2s (based on a previous post) but 03?-05s are SCI Bus and will need to have the SCI bus updates (dont know if its just hardware or firmware, I assume both).

It is a physical hardware change to the V2 internals, so the SCI support is unfortunately not able to be enabled by a firmware update alone.

[GMPX]

Update time.
We have successfully implemented re-flashing in to our version 8 development software for the 5.9L. So at this stage all technical challenges have been completed, we have a few things left to tidy up before we would consider releasing this as a beta.
One of these issues is more an issue in the ECM itself. Anyone who has ever used the Tech Authority system to program a 5.9L will know you have to go through a VIN learn after the flash is complete. This is because there is IMHO a bug in the ECM's reflash code handler that dictates you need to do a full reflash of the ECM even though you tell it to only write to a small section. In doing so the ECM clears out some critical memory area that needs to be rewritten before the ECM will come back to life correctly.
It's not a big challenge to handle this properly and we will be testing some processes shortly.

To answer the question on the old (existing) V2's working with Cummins, we are going to allow an upgrade to those V2's that will allow them to work with the 2006+ ECM's (the CAN based ones), this will not be a free upgrade, but it will save you needing to buy a whole new unit. Upgrade pricing has not been set, we will be having discussions with our resellers on what they feel is fair for everyone.

I know everyone wants time frames for a release, I don't want to set any false hopes as we have a pretty busy schedule (including overseas travel) before the year is out and Paul (the main software guy) is recovering from a pretty serious back operation, however we are 100% focused to get 5.9L tuning out as a beta before the year is out.

FYI, Below are the warnings shown with the Tech Authority (https://www.techauthority.com/en-US/Pages/Country.aspx) factory on-line programming software.

http://download.efilive.com/Staff/GMPX/FlashError1.png

http://download.efilive.com/Staff/GMPX/FlashError2.png

Cheers,
Ross

[XLR8R]

Great news - thanks!

[L31Sleeper]

this will not be a free upgrade, but it will save you needing to buy a whole new unit. Upgrade pricing has not been set

SOOOooooo....... how much are we talk'in ??
don't you think you will sell a BOAT load of VINs and streams ??

[GMPX]

Upgrade pricing has not been set


SOOOooooo....... how much are we talk'in ??

:lookaround:

[XLR8R]

I bet if you have to ask, you can't afford the supporting mods... :devil_2:

[L31Sleeper]

Supporting mods.......hell I can't even afford a diesel truck. But my customers can !!

Hey Ross are we going to get CSP2 / CSP5 ??

[GMPX]

Switchable tunes will of course be something we look at for the Cummins but definitely not before everything else is sorted for them. There is certainly enough space in the ECM's memory for such modifications but I don't know what sort of spare inputs it might have.

[vortecfcar]

My suggestion would be to do the TCM before CSP. Trans tune-ability will be a major advancement big turbo Cummins trucks.

Just my $.02,

Nick

[BSwope]

This is some really great news.... keep up the good work guys!!!

Im patiently waiting......!!

[GMPX]

My suggestion would be to do the TCM before CSP. Trans tune-ability will be a major advancement big turbo Cummins trucks.

Just my $.02,

Nick
Nick, one of the Dodge experts might correct me on this, but the 4-speed 48RE doesn't have much in the way of electronic control, from what I can see on the wiring diagrams you only have, Pressure solenoid, 3-4 Solenoid & TCC, nothing like the Allison (or GM's 4 speed transmissions). Those 48RE solenoids are controlled from the ECM :)
The 6.7L went to a more complex full separate ECM & TCM system with the 6-speed 68RFE.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Nick, one of the Dodge experts might correct me on this, but the 4-speed 48RE doesn't have much in the way of electronic control, from what I can see on the wiring diagrams you only have, Pressure solenoid, 3-4 Solenoid & TCC, nothing like the Allison (or GM's 4 speed transmissions). Those 48RE solenoids are controlled from the ECM :)
The 6.7L went to a more complex full separate ECM & TCM system with the 6-speed 68RFE.

I know the DODGE 4 speed trans is actually a fairly wierd control pattern as it uses an electrocic governor control to shift. Basically they took the old fashioned governor assembly off the rear and put in an electronic control for it to make it shift. It is a wierd control system by all acounts as the pressure control actually controls the shifts and not line pressure per say so much.

[ScarabEpic22]

Great news EFILive! This is gonna be HUGE for the Cummins folks!

[vortecfcar]

Those 48RE solenoids are controlled from the ECM :)


I feel like I should send them a 'Thank You' card or something.:fluffy:

[DURAtotheMAX]

My suggestion would be to do the TCM before CSP. Trans tune-ability will be a major advancement big turbo Cummins trucks.

Just my $.02,

Nick

Well why is that? You're still dealing with a 40 year old trans. Have you even taken one apart?

[vortecfcar]

I don't need to take one apart to know it shifts too soon.

Your attitude is unnecessary,

Nick

[L31Sleeper]

Easy guys........I noticed long ago that things come across very differently on a forum.
I went back and re-read some of my old posts on here and Pacific Performance and
thought "wow I sounded like a Jerk"

[2007 5.9]

Hello, I am Les.
I am the lead dyno tuner for Left Coast Diesel in Concord Ca. I am VERY excited to see this come to life for the Cummins crowd.
I have been a loyal Smarty tuner for the past 3 years, and enjoy all that Marco has offered, but I feel that the introduction of EFI Live to the Cummins crowd will drastically change the diesel performance world.

I plan on following this as closely as I possibly can, and reading as much tutorial information as humanly possible, so that I can provide the best support and customer/personal satisfaction as I can.

If anyone has helpful advise/info on how to contact the software engineers, to possibly get a hold of a BETA product that would be great. I have 3-4 2006+ CR Cummins at my disposal along with unlimited access to a Dyno Jet Dyno, to do as much testing/learning/feedback as possible.

I am sure with myself being a "Newbie" to the EFI crowd, not much merrit will be given to my wishes...but I do hope that with the release of this product for BETA, and ensuing public release, I am able to obtain as much knowledge and information as possible.

Thanks for your time
Les

[JoshH]

I know the DODGE 4 speed trans is actually a fairly wierd control pattern as it uses an electrocic governor control to shift. Basically they took the old fashioned governor assembly off the rear and put in an electronic control for it to make it shift. It is a wierd control system by all acounts as the pressure control actually controls the shifts and not line pressure per say so much.Yep, all shifts, with the exception of overdrive, are controlled with governor pressure. There is a shift solenoid for overdrive, and there is also the converter lockup solenoid.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Yep, all shifts, with the exception of overdrive, are controlled with governor pressure. There is a shift solenoid for overdrive, and there is also the converter lockup solenoid.

I remember having a hard time wrapping my head around this idea when I first heard about when I was working for DODGE. It made no sense to me to do it this way when a shift solonoid is so much more precise and controllable.

[L31Sleeper]

Nick, one of the Dodge experts might correct me on this, but the 4-speed 48RE doesn't have much in the way of electronic control, from what I can see on the wiring diagrams you only have, Pressure solenoid, 3-4 Solenoid & TCC, nothing like the Allison (or GM's 4 speed transmissions). Those 48RE solenoids are controlled from the ECM :)
The 6.7L went to a more complex full separate ECM & TCM system with the 6-speed 68RFE.


Yep, all shifts, with the exception of overdrive, are controlled with governor pressure. There is a shift solenoid for overdrive, and there is also the converter lockup solenoid.

So if the pressure solenoid controls the governor pressure and the governor pressure controls shifts then the PCM can control shifts.

[GMPX]

So shift points (as in MPH) via pressure control? What about shift firmness?

[L31Sleeper]

Pressure controls both in a Turbo 350 transmission right ?

Seems like a LAZY way of adding computer controls.

[2007 5.9]

Lazy but cost effective.

Most VB guys can tailor shift firmness and points based upon your requirements.
To me I'd rather have hard parts fail then chasing electrical gremlins.

[THEFERMANATOR]

So shift points (as in MPH) via pressure control? What about shift firmness?

In the 47Re it was done via the throttle pressure cable, on the 48RE it is done via a force motor that is mounted externally of the trans.

[JoshH]

The shifts are also controlled by the throttle valve. I totally forgot that the newer trucks have an electronic motor that controls it (I think it's called a TTVA?). The older trucks use a cable. I can never remember what year they switched.

Really, the shifts are controlled by both throttle valve and governor pressure. Governor pressure has to overcome throttle valve pressure to move the shift valves. Higher throttle valve pressure will generally create later and firmer shifts.

[joecar]

So if the pressure solenoid controls the governor pressure and the governor pressure controls shifts then the PCM can control shifts.

So shift points (as in MPH) via pressure control? What about shift firmness?

Generically (most transmissions):
- pump fluid is regulated into line pressure (by the pressure solenoid in this case),
- line pressure feeds the governor,
- the governor regulates line pressure into governor pressure according to how fast the governor is spinning (spring loaded weights flying outward)...

i.e. governor pressure is "vehicle speed signal" pressure...

i.e. line pressure does not control governor pressure, but rather it simply provides fluid pressure which the governor regulates into the vehicle speed signal pressure...

i.e. shift firmness is still controlled by line pressure, but the side effect is that with higher line pressure, governor pressure will be higher, so the upshifts will come sooner, it will hold higher gears longer, and it downshifts later... however most governors are designed to have a reduced sensitivity to line pressure being high or fluctuating by having cleverly calculated areas on both sides of the governor valves that line pressure acts on so that governor pressure relies mainly on how far the spring loaded weights move... i.e. if line pressure is high, the valves do not move as easily.

So the PCM is not controlling the VSS-vs-TP shift schedule.

Then, at each shift valve, governor pressure opposes throttle pressure (they act in opposite directions on the shift valve)...
if governor pressure wins, then the shift valve moves to the upshift position,
if throttle pressure wins, then the shift valve moves to the downshift position.

Throttle pressure is also used to assist line pressure to increase shift firmness at high engine torque (by having cleverly calculated areas on the line pressure regulator valve).

:)

[Blacky]

Joe, you've got to get out more :)
Paul

[joecar]

Joe, you've got to get out more :)
PaulI drive my car everyday, does that count... :grin:

[THEFERMANATOR]

I know the 47RE did not have a solonoid to control the line pressure, and I believe the 48RE is the same way. I know there is a valve to regulate line pressure statically like an 01-10 ALLISON trans does. It uses throttle pressure against governor pressure to control shift firmness is how I understand it.

[L31Sleeper]

I know the 47RE did not have a solonoid to control the line pressure, and I believe the 48RE is the same way. I know there is a valve to regulate line pressure statically like an 01-10 ALLISON trans does. It uses throttle pressure against governor pressure to control shift firmness is how I understand it.

Where does Throttle Pressure come from a TV cable ??

[JoshH]

I know the 47RE did not have a solonoid to control the line pressure, and I believe the 48RE is the same way. I know there is a valve to regulate line pressure statically like an 01-10 ALLISON trans does. It uses throttle pressure against governor pressure to control shift firmness is how I understand it.Yep, the 48RE valve body is basically identical to the 47RE. There are very few electronics in the transmissions. There is a 2 solenoid pack that controls converter lockup and overdrive. Then there is the governor parts that consist of a governor pressure sensor, which also contains the transmission fluid temperature sensor, and the governor pressure solenoid.


Where does Throttle Pressure come from a TV cable ??Like has been said before, it is either a cable going to the throttle linkage on the 47RE or a TTVA (shown in the illustration below) on the 48RE.

http://www.electricaladvantage.net/images/176179.jpg

[L31Sleeper]

Yep, the 48RE valve body is basically identical to the 47RE. There are very few electronics in the transmissions. There is a 2 solenoid pack that controls converter lockup and overdrive. Then there is the governor parts that consist of a governor pressure sensor, which also contains the transmission fluid sensor, and the governor pressure solenoid.

Like has been said before, it is either a cable going to the throttle linkage on the 47RE or a TTVA (shown in the illustration below) on the 48RE.


So we can use the governor pressure solenoid to control shift points and the TTVA to control Firmness ?

[THEFERMANATOR]

So we can use the governor pressure solenoid to control shift points and the TTVA to control Firmness ?

To an extent. This is how the old BD locker worked. It would pull the TV arm to almost full open(roughly 85% which was not enough to cause a downshift, but still max line pressure) when it was applied on the 47RE to up line pressure. There is also a main regulator in the valve body though that controls overall pressure to the trans. A pressure control solonoid, and a couple of shift solonoids would have given almost infinite control of the trans, but DODGE went with a pretty goofy and marginal control system(I think) to accomplish it.

[dansdieselp]

Either way just like a Allison you will have to build the trans to make good power with the truck. The Dodge trannys are simple in the fact that not much electronics are involved. The majority of the shift firmness and line pressure upgrades are done in the valve body. I have a list of customers that are eagerly awaiting the release of custom tuning for their trucks. We are looking forward to it. Be interesting to see how the Cummins will compare to the Dmax once they get tuned in.

[cumminsDK]

with november 30th release i can now read cummins ECM's with V8 but can not edit. When i try to open it with V7.5 it says file binary image is not a valid binary size. is this normal for now or should i have these features?

[THEFERMANATOR]

with november 30th release i can now read cummins ECM's with V8 but can not edit. When i try to open it with V7.5 it says file binary image is not a valid binary size. is this normal for now or should i have these features?

When I read the V8 updates, it only listed reading support for now for the CUMMINS controllers.

[Tordne]

with november 30th release i can now read cummins ECM's with V8 but can not edit. When i try to open it with V7.5 it says file binary image is not a valid binary size. is this normal for now or should i have these features?

Yeah, no calibration editing or flashing is released at this time. TO answer your next question; we are not able to give a timeframe for release yet. We are progressing well, but there is still some milestones to be achieved.

[relentless addiction]

Im reading several ecms this upcoming friday is anyone still need the cal files sent to them for support or anything i can help with?

Also THANKS guys this is amazing how far you all are progressing this quick...

Thanks,
Ben :grin:

[GMPX]

I was in the middle of getting the 5.9L & 6.7L ECM's to read out using the V8 PC based tuner. They are a little fussy and don't quite work the same, I nearly got it working but then had to stop to prepare for PRI (leaving in the morning).

[mr.prick]

Enjoy the flight Ross. :hihi:

[GMPX]

14hrs to LA + 5hrs or so to Florida, to a time zone way out of whack to mine, excuse me for sleeping at the stand.

[GMPX]

I've got another trip to NZ at the start of January to finalise the flashing for the 2006+ 5.9L ECM, it's getting so close now.

[Dmaxink]

sounds great ross, very VERY excited for this. You guys have a Merry Christmas and have a safe trip to NZ. :santa1::santa1:

[rajkalkat]

can't wait to see more updates. love to see a 5 switch. put me on the waiting list

[bballer182]

can't wait to see more updates. love to see a 5 switch. put me on the waiting list

You and 500,000 others

[Jay]

I've got another trip to NZ at the start of January to finalise the flashing for the 2006+ 5.9L ECM, it's getting so close now.

This is SOOO COOL!! I am so very glad to hear that EFILive is moving on to the other brand name trucks (DODGE)
I am wondering what I would need to do in order to be put on the list of BETA software testers?
Also I'm hearing that I am going to need to buy a (unlock code) for my V2? Could someone shed some lite on this subject for me?
Thank's!!

[Tordne]

The initial beta phase will be conducted with existing customers who are already intimately familiar with the EFILive products and processes. This decision is intended to ensure that product familiarity do not cause unnecessary issues for either the user or EFILive as we try to progress through the beta phase. Additionally we ideally wish for the beta participants to have the ability to recover the Cummins ECM with other tools should a problem be identified, it is beta afterall. For this reason individuals (personal users) will generally not be considered due to the potential for issues.

On the licensing front. Our licensing model is to change shortly to align with the changes that supporting multiple manufacturers brings. When Cummins support is released customers will be able to purchase the 'Dodge Cummins Diesel Tuning Add-On' which will cost US$399. There will also be a 'GM Tuning Add-On' product to cover the existing GM support, also priced at US$399.

Existing customers FlashScan V2 cables already include the 'GM Tuning Add-On' because that's all we support right now. New customers will have the option to choose which (or both) tuning support they wish to activate on the FlashScan v2 interface.

Cheers,

[Jay]

Awesome !! Ya I've had a V2 since September of 2008 and LOVED IT!! :mrgreen: and I do have a friend that has a teck 2 thats available at any time, but as far as Dodge's... I don't have any way to recover them if anything went terribly wrong. :bad:

Well I would like to get a hold of that Dodge tuning software as soon as its safe!!
Keep up the GOOD WORK!! :grin: :good::thankyou2:

[Dmaxink]

The initial beta phase will be conducted with existing customers who are already intimately familiar with the EFILive products and processes. This decision is intended to ensure that product familiarity do not cause unnecessary issues for either the user or EFILive as we try to progress through the beta phase. Additionally we ideally wish for the beta participants to have the ability to recover the Cummins ECM with other tools should a problem be identified, it is beta afterall. For this reason individuals (personal users) will generally not be considered due to the potential for issues.

On the licensing front. Our licensing model is to change shortly to align with the changes that supporting multiple manufacturers brings. When Cummins support is released customers will be able to purchase the 'Dodge Cummins Diesel Tuning Add-On' which will cost US$399. There will also be a 'GM Tuning Add-On' product to cover the existing GM support, also priced at US$399.

Existing customers FlashScan V2 cables already include the 'GM Tuning Add-On' because that's all we support right now. New customers will have the option to choose which (or both) tuning support they wish to activate on the FlashScan v2 interface.

Cheers,

How about stream? I will be purchasing a stream right away...this is great news! Thanks for the update

[wiseguy63]

is there any hope for us who own a 99 model 24v haha or should i just stick to the tst smarty stack that i have now?

[wiseguy63]

any hope for efi live in a year or so for 98.5 - 2002 models?

[dansdieselp]

No streams for the Cummins just vin licenses.

VP44 guys there are no intentions of supporting vehicles that are getting to be that old.

[wiseguy63]

haha i didnt think so thank you for answering. anythin lookin good for the 04.5 models one of my friends has one and he was wondering

[johnyb59]

Planned Vehicle Support

1. 06-07 5.9L CAN based vehicles - expected public release March 2011
2. 07-09 6.7L CAN based vehicles (ECM and TCM support) - development will commence after 06-07 public release
3. 09-11 6.7L CAN based vehicles - development may or may not be concurrent to 07-09 vehicles.
4. 03-05 5.9L SCI based vehicles - will commence development after all CAN support is finalised.
5. Pre 2003 trucks will not be considered at this point of time

Time frames for support are dependent on the beta progress of the preceding controller.

[GMPX]

Just a quick update, the scantool is still being worked on. Paul has locked himself away in a dark room with no phones or human contact!!, we hope that by next week the beta testers will have scantool to play with.
We've had a bunch of ECM reads sent in too, the good thing there is only one of them was an ECM Operating System we hadn't seen before, so it looks like majority of peoples trucks will be supported from day one.

Cheers,
Ross

[pavetim]

Can you start scanning Cummins yet? and do you need a special cable or does the V2 GM cable work?

[ScarabEpic22]

Can you start scanning Cummins yet? and do you need a special cable or does the V2 GM cable work?

You can read the Cummins ECM out, but the general public cannot view/edit/flash tunes yet and the scantool is still being worked on. The regular V2 will work with all CAN based Cummins,.

[Tordne]

A V2 Scan Tool will work on a GM or Cummins. The V2 GM is basically a Scan Tool with the GM Tuning Option licensed.

As ScarabEpic22 says the Scan Tool portion is what is being intensively worked on right now.

[Camaro SS]

You can read the Cummins ECM out, but the general public cannot view/edit/flash tunes yet and the scantool is still being worked on. The regular V2 will work with all CAN based Cummins,.I wish I could view/look at the tune now. So we probably won't be able to view the tunes until it is publicly released correct?

[ScarabEpic22]

I wish I could view/look at the tune now. So we probably won't be able to view the tunes until it is publicly released correct?

From what Ive heard, yes. FYI Im not a beta tester so I dont have access to any of the Cummins beta stuff so Im just relaying information Ive picked up on the forum (mostly from the guys at EFILive).

[CIDRAUGHN]

Any more news on when licensing is coming out? My V2 is already in the mail.

[GMPX]

Currently we are in the process of testing everything in the next beta software release (GM and Cummins) because there was some substantial changes made to make the Cummins work with the Scantool. All the beta testers need GM functionality still working so we can't just release a Cummins only version. Anyway, that verification process is happening this week as I type.
Once we are happy the scantool is 100% functional the Beta testers will go crazy with logging and tuning to further assist the final descriptions of some tables and how the ECM functions.
So I would say two to three weeks and we should be right to go to a public release.
The good news is all the reads that have been sent in have been mapped so hopefully everyone with a Cummins license will be set to tune as soon as it's released, so far there has been a total of 13 unique operating systems.

[07dodge]

Think I'm going to go ahead and order my V2 and license this week or next. That way shes ready to roll when it's released. Truck should be fixed by then too!

[SGFastMax]

is the cummins flash scan upgrade option for current V2 owners available yet? or if when available how will i go about purchasing it? thanks

[FUBAR]

Will we be able to re-calibrate ABS tire height/speedometer?

[FUBAR]

Anybody know?

[Blacky]

is the cummins flash scan upgrade option for current V2 owners available yet? or if when available how will i go about purchasing it? thanks

It is still in beta testing (not available publicly yet). We don't have a firm release date yet but it is getting very close.
Regards
Paul

[SGFastMax]

ok thanks

[cumminsDK]

So any updates on the scan tool progress?

[FUBAR]

Update please?

[Blacky]

The latest Cummins beta version is being uploaded now and released to the beta testers tonight.
This is likely the last Cummins beta release before we make a public pre-release.
We haven't announced any release dates publicly as we need to propagate that information through our reseller network first.

I expect it will be available well before the end of May.

Regards
Paul

[FUBAR]

Thank you!

[GMPX]

Here is a little more detailed update on our progress.

Last week we expanded our Beta program to include several additional testers. This was done to help us speed up the process of our testing as well as expose the software to fresh eyes to see how new users will manage. We needed to see how users who hadn't been exposed to custom tuning took to the process. Not only have we had excellent feedback from these new testers regarding parameters and how the tune tool and scan tool interact, it's also been very helpful for our documentation and support network for when we do release. We have produced a quick start guide which will be given a once over from the Beta testers too.

With respect to the software, this is what we've been working on recently:
- added support for new some new operating systems (they keep popping up).
- injection timing and fuel pressure controls confirmed as working well, commanding 26,000 PSI no problem with verification on the scanner it's doing it.
- full control of post and pilot injection confirmed as working.
- currently testing tire size adjustments (we may add a calculator in addition to current controls).
- Wastegate control - we've made good progress on this feature and people have been able to remove boost foolers.
- auto door lock disable feature in testing (mixed results).
- Scantool PID group selection working well, although we may need to retrain our existing GM customers - this approach is very different to what they are used to. We expect this method to be far more helpful with users assisting each other.

What we are still working on:
- fuel hang - appears to be operating system related. The issue is resolved on some trucks via tuning, and is still being experienced on others. We are compiling a list of OS's that it works on and doesn't work on to try and resolve this completely.
- RPM limiters - we've had some success consistently lifting the limiter to 4200 and removing that huge back off to 3600. We haven't hit the magical 5000, but we are still actively working on this though not as a priority for release day.
- door lock disable feature is working on some trucks but not others. Still need to do more digging on this, although it won't prevent us releasing (nice to have, but unnecessary)
- flashing tunes from one vehicle into another. We need to finalise testing to ensure there are no security issues or no start issues.

What's needed for us to release?
- The testers (and ourselves) need to have a better understanding of certain table affects on the final injection pulsewidth algorithms and the Fuel Pressure control systems to support our customers as knowledgeable as possible.
- Keep testing the RPM limiters.
- Finalise documentation (will anyone read it??)
- There are a few minor fixes needed to the software, and then I expect we'll have one more full beta release before we are ready to go public.

We just want to make sure that when it's released that all tuners are going to have the ability to produce better tunes than what is currently on the market today. When I say better, I don't mean the highest horsepower or highest RPM, all that will come, I mean something the drives smooth like a factory vehicle yet performs significantly better.

Cheers,
Ross

[cntryby]

Thanks for keeping us updated.

[07dodge]

Does it look like there may be some trans tuning available in the future? If anything, to control converter lockup? That would be great if it's possible.

[68showngo]

Does it look like there may be some trans tuning available in the future? If anything, to control converter lockup? That would be great if it's possible.

I would really like to know this too!

[GMPX]

Yes, some trans control will be included, but not on the first release date. Although the electronic side of the transmission is relativity simple on the Dodge (compared to say an Allison), we will need to get our Beta testers to do some testing on the tables we wanted to include.

[68showngo]

Awesome!! I would think torque converter lock-up should work and possible a little something with shift points and I would be totally happy with that.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[GMPX]

Shift points for all gears is a little tricky because it's not a full electronic auto, you would need to play around with the governor pressure for the shift points. It's not going to be easy like a full electronic auto where you have a shift at 'x' MPH and 'x' percent throttle.

[68showngo]

Ok well I meant torque converter lock up for sure and that shift points might be a little too.. it shifts into 4th at different times in tow/haul or not. I really don't know what can and can't be done though. I just think the Allison tuning is pretty sweet but i know it wont be on near that level. Ill be really happy with the engine tuning already though!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[cumminsDK]

i was just looking at the calender and noticed there are only seven days left in may....;) is still possible to have a public release by the end of the month

[skneeland]

Shift points for all gears is a little tricky because it's not a full electronic auto, you would need to play around with the governor pressure for the shift points. It's not going to be easy like a full electronic auto where you have a shift at 'x' MPH and 'x' percent throttle.

The programmer im running now has my upshift and downshifts all messed up due to the fact it takes very little pedal movement for alot more fuel than stock. Right from the start of this project I was hoping at the very least to "respan" my throttle to require more % throttle for a given amount of fuel, thereby fooling the transmission upshifts/downshifts into a more logical pattern. Sounds like we may even get a little direct trans. control , even better!

[polarischevy05]

its june how much longer do we have lol

[Blacky]

We realize its taken longer than we expected.
We are working on the final version right now and expect it to be publicly available early next week.
Depending on our test results this week, a pre-release version may be available sooner.

Regards
Paul