HELP new calc.pid for current shipping LC-1

[kwhiteside]

The sticky and most posts on the forum use the settings for the brown cable that goes to the innovate gauge. The LC-1 manual states the yellow output cable ships with 1.1V = 14AFR and .1V = 15AFR.

The current shipping sae_generic.txt is also incorrect as it used the 10 / 20 settings that is intended to go to the innovate gauge and not the flashscan device (per the LC-1 Quick Start Guide).

Thanks in advance, Ken . . .

[mr.prick]

The sae_generic.txt matches analog#2 (brown).
({EXT.AD1}*3)+7.35
Analog Out #2
0 @ 7.35 AFR / 0.500 LAMBDA
5 @ 22.39 AFR / 1.523 LAMBDA

[kwhiteside]

I found a thread on LC-1 Serial. I didn't know LC-1 would do that, so I will hook up my old LM-1 serial setup to that and see what happens.

I would still like the correct calc.pids code. It might be a good idea for Blacky to change the name of the current LC1 in sae_generic to LC1_Brown and add in another call LC1_Yellow and code them to match the way Innovate ships them and instructs in their manuals.

[kwhiteside]

The sae_generic.txt matches analog#2 (brown).
({EXT.AD1}*3)+7.35
Analog Out #2
0 @ 7.35 AFR / 0.500 LAMBDA
5 @ 22.39 AFR / 1.523 LAMBDA

Correct. However, per the Innovate quick start guied, Brown goes the the Innovate gauge! Yellow goes to Flashscan. My new Innovate gauge works very well with that brown wire.

[mr.prick]

From the LC-1 Installation Tutorial (http://download.efilive.com/Tutorials/PDF/LC-1%20Installation%20Tutorial.pdf)

A typical LC-1 from the manufacturer will have “Analog Out 1” programmed to simulate a narrowband O2 sensor. The example in this guide reprograms the LC-1 “Analog Out 1” output to send a compatible signal to the FlashScan/EFILive Software. The LC-1’s “Analog out 2” is programmed to send a correct signal to the DynoTune Display. The DynoTune Display is precalibrated from the vendor.

From the LC-1 Manual (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LC-1_Manual.pdf)

6. Optionally, the YELLOW (Analog out 1) and/or
BROWN (Analog out 2) can be connected to the analog inputs of other devices such as data loggers, ECUs, or gauges.
If either one or both of these wires are not being used isolate and tape the wire(s) out of the way.
The default analog outputs are as follows:
Analog output one is 1.1V = 14 AFR and .1V = 15 AFR. This is a simulated narrowband signal.
Analog output two is setup as 0V = 7.35 AFR and 5V = 22.39AFR.

The analog outs can be programmed to anything the user wants,
but because the analog#2 (brown) is preprogrammed with the wider range
the PID is configured to that.
This way you don't need to reprogram either one and
hook them straight to Flashscan and the gauge.

[joecar]

Ken,

The LC-1 ships with the yellow channel (analog 1) programmed to emulate the NBO2 signal;

You can use the LM Programmer software to change the LC-1 channels to suit whatever you have connected to them...

you can program analog 1 yellow to fit the calc pid.

[kwhiteside]

From the LC-1 Installation Tutorial (http://download.efilive.com/Tutorials/PDF/LC-1%20Installation%20Tutorial.pdf)


From the LC-1 Manual (http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LC-1_Manual.pdf)


The analog outs can be programmed to anything the user wants,
but because the analog#2 (brown) is preprogrammed with the wider range
the PID is configured to that.
This way you don't need to reprogram either one and
hook them straight to Flashscan and the gauge.

If I hook brown to flashscan, the yellow will need to be programmed to work with the gauge.

If I hook brown to gauge, gauge will work (it does for me), but yellow will need to be programmed.

So to get BOTH gauge and flashscan to work, one has to be programmed. I may jump through this hoop. But how much better would it be if EFILive just sent out the proper pids to fit the product. Most people must not be using the gauge or this would have come up before. Brown goes to the gauge, yellow to the flashscan. Either yellow has to be programmed to read like the brown, or Flashscan needs a pid to match the way Innovate ships it from the factory.

Now I'll probably get by with the serial connection, but I would think EFILive would want their product as polished as possible. What harm would there be having a PID for both wires? Especially when the one EFILive has choosen is the one that Innovate tells its customers to plug into their gauge!

BTW, my experience over the last 9 months or so of tuning has led me to see that a weather fluctuation from 60f to 90f can throw a tune out big time, even the MAF does not adjust sufficiently. Living in Atlanta, I see this swing from Sep to Oct. I plan on using the gauge to identify when I need to make a tune change. I also plan on having a warm weather tune and a mild weather tune that I can just flash without having to do a half dozen log runs. Of course that will take a season to get comfortable with, but you can see how the gauge might come in handy. Of course the gauge will also show some other big problem like a leak as running real lean all the sudden.

Ken . . .

[mr.prick]

According to Innovate analog#1 hooks up to the gauge without reprogramming it.
Analog#1 will not work with Flashscan the way it comes out of the box,
analog#2 will.

What would the PID formula be for a preprogrammed analog#1?
Analog Out#1
1.099 @ 14.08 AFR / 0.958 LAMBDA
0.103 @ 15.01 AFR / 1.021 LAMBDA

[joecar]

...
The LC-1 manual states the yellow output cable ships with 1.1V = 14AFR and .1V = 15AFR.
...

...
But how much better would it be if EFILive just sent out the proper pids to fit the product.
...
Now I'll probably get by with the serial connection, but I would think EFILive would want their product as polished as possible. What harm would there be having a PID for both wires? Especially when the one EFILive has chosen is the one that Innovate tells its customers to plug into their gauge!
...
Ken,

The LC-1 Analog 1 (yellow) default v:afr curve cannot be used for tuning... the range is AFR 14.08 to 15.01... this range pegs the measured AFR at 14.08 (WOT) and at 15.01 (DFCO)... as pointed out by mr.prick this range is not very useful at all.

The LC-1 manual also says the yellow (Analog 1) channel is for simulating the OEM NBO2 switching functionality... some people are using this to run in CL or SOL/SCL.

Also note: programming either of the LC-1 channels is a fairly trivial matter, just connect to PC and run the LM Programmer software; the LC-1 user manaul shows how to.

EFILive does want the product to be as good as it can be and better... believe me and all the beta testers.

You should definitely go with serial AFR, this is highly recommended, you'll do better than just "get by"...
and, by using serial AFR you can then use the brown (Analog 2) channel to drive your gauge...

See the following for guidance:

V2 serial/digital wideband logging:
showthread.php?t=8858 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=8858)
showthread.php?t=8115 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=8115)
showthread.php?t=10251 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=10251) post #2

V2 serial/digital AFR input (LC-1):
showthread.php?t=8115 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=8115)
showthread.php?t=7532 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=7532)
showthread.php?t=8348 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=8348)
showthread.php?t=9340 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=9340) post #3

Cheers
Joe
:) :) :)

[kwhiteside]

Thanks for all the direction guys. Sorry to be a pain but I'm stuck with both options.

Logged a run with serial, but it gets stuck constantly at 15.17. I'm using the same cable setup that I used to go from my LM-1 to my flashscan so I doubt its the cable unless the serial out LC-1 cable is different from the LM-1 serial out cable. From that cable I go serial gender bender, null modem, then serial to RJ45. Again, it worked great with LM-1.

Tried to program the Yellow Cable 1 to match the brown one. Get a please connect device message that wont go away. I'm using a serial to usb cable I got from Innovate that is has blue plastic ends that say SEWELL on it. Vista sees it but will not install driver from CD. If I click driver from CD it does nothing. Let it search windows update it found some serial to usb driver and installed it but that still doesn't work.

I searched Innovate forums and EVERYBODY is having problems with the usb to serial setup.

I'll probably spend hours searching, if you have suggestions please fire them off to me here.

Ken . . .

[mr.prick]

Turn off UAC w/Vista then try installing the driver for the serial converter.
Is the LC-1 powered up when asked "please connect device" message or
is the problem with no having the serial converter driver installed?

With the LC-1 and Flashscan cable I used a null modem only, no gender bender in between.
You can make a direct cable with the pinout in my sig.

[kwhiteside]

Got the Programmer working.

Had to power ignition, wait, usb into notebook. Install drivers, the prolific usb to serial is the correct one for my cable. Let it install. Doesn't work because it defaulted to Com4. Find your way to device manager then ports (cable has to be plugged in and powered up for it to even show as a port) change to com1. Restart LM Programmer and voila!

Change out 1 to match out 2. Also noticed it was not setup for GASOLINE in the first setup page so switched that and hit program.

I'll don't know if the GAS setting could effect the serial connection or not, but I'll try both analog and serial tomorrow. Have my BBL setup with two different PID sets, one does analog1, the other does serial.

(BTW, glad you guys showed me how to tune by LTFT's)

[kwhiteside]

Everything is working now. Serial and Analog!

[joecar]

Cool...:cheers: