Locked ECU Hacking

[Tre-Cool]

I notice that a certain thread has disappeared in the gen3 section, probably because it went off topic a bit.

I was just wondering what EFI's stand point is on the discussion of privateers attempting to hack the seed/ key combinations of locked pcm's?

The reason i ask is because i have a few friends that had their pcm's modified by hptuners software and thus efilive cannot overwrite the pcm.

I'm not interested in reading any existing tune, i just want to overwrite the whole flash, so we can get it to a usable base with efilive.

Sure we *could* pay someone to unlock it, but seeing as i have a bench harness and plenty of time to wait for some software to find the seed & key, well why not.

Perhaps if you guys all ready have a program that can do this, you would be willing to release or sell it to customers and lock it to their V2 Serial number, Thus limiting it's distribution.

[5.7ute]

I noticed that thread disappearing, but I am not really surprised.
I am sure that Ross or Paul believed it was in their best interests to not have that kind of information publicly available here. Hence the deletion.

[mr.prick]

It takes a lot to get a thread locked or deleted here.
Ross & Paul are cool about the open exchange of ideas but obviously there is a limit.
The fate of that thread should be your answer.
IBTL.
http://smiliesftw.com/x/lockd.gif

[Cougar281]

The reason i ask is because i have a few friends that had their pcm's modified by hptuners software and thus efilive cannot overwrite the pcm.

I'm not interested in reading any existing tune, i just want to overwrite the whole flash, so we can get it to a usable base with efilive.


For this reason, I agree with the spirit of that thread 100%. The people that "complained" thus getting that thread shut down and deleted are worried about their tuning being broken into and stolen. There are two problems with that though. First, not everyone has the skill, paitence or equipment to do what was posted, and second, if someone REALLY wants to steal some commercial tuning in a locked PCM, all they need to do is sacafice the PCM; rip it open, pull the flash chip and read it (and again, not everyone can do that either). Bypass the "almighty" lock completely. If these people are that concerned, then with all due respect, they should throw in the towel and quit now, because the ONLY way they can really prevent someone from getting their tuning that REALLY wants it is to not send out the PCM. As with pretty much anything: Give physical access, and ANYTHING can be broken into. The only question is degree of difficulty (Give me physical access to any Windows PC or Cisco device and I WILL get into it inside of 5 minutes ;)).

[Tre-Cool]

For this reason, I agree with the spirit of that thread 100%. The people that "complained" thus getting that thread shut down and deleted are worried about their tuning being broken into and stolen. There are two problems with that though. First, not everyone has the skill, paitence or equipment to do what was posted, and second, if someone REALLY wants to steal some commercial tuning in a locked PCM, all they need to do is sacafice the PCM; rip it open, pull the flash chip and read it (and again, not everyone can do that either). Bypass the "almighty" lock completely. If these people are that concerned, then with all due respect, they should throw in the towel and quit now, because the ONLY way they can really prevent someone from getting their tuning that REALLY wants it is to not send out the PCM. As with pretty much anything: Give physical access, and ANYTHING can be broken into. The only question is degree of difficulty (Give me physical access to any Windows PC or Cisco device and I WILL get into it inside of 5 minutes ;)).
I look at it like this aswell, If i can replace a competitors tuning product with an efilive solution, i'm going to purchase more licenses from efilive (or a stream if it becomes financially economical to do so, though im only helping out friends and will never do tuning as a source of income)

Or the 2nd potential choice is send the locked pcm to someone who can overwrite the tune with a factory one and change the pcm serial 2 one im allready licensed with efilive to tune = Loss of income to EFILIVE.

I'm also unsure if there would be a way to differentiate say a locked hptuners ecu vs a locked efilive tune, but if efilive had product that could do this would it would be a step over the competition.

I can also understand back in the early days of ls1 tuning the locking of pcm's was to prevent other "tuners" from reading out someone elses work and then selling it as their own, but 6 years later, this doesnt really make sense any more and any true workshop tuner (those who charge $$$ for their tuning skills/services) would start from their own base tune than trying to rejig someone elses "Shit".

[Tre-Cool]

To throw some idea's out there, what if the guys at EFILIVE could integrate this "cracking program" so that once it found the seed, key combination it would only allow you to send a full flash tune.

That way they are "protecting" other people's work but not locking out new users who say purchase a pcm from the wreckers,ebay etc etc.

[Cougar281]

To throw some idea's out there, what if the guys at EFILIVE could integrate this "cracking program" so that once it found the seed, key combination it would only allow you to send a full flash tune.

That way they are "protecting" other people's work but not locking out new users who say purchase a pcm from the wreckers,ebay etc etc.

That's not a bad idea, except for the time required to execute the "crack". They didn't implement full A40 reading because it takes 45+ minutes to read the TCM, so I doubt they'd implement something that could take DAYS.... no offence meant, Ross & Paul :). I'd love to be wrong though, since that would give them an "edge" IMO; allow EFILive to recover PCM's that have been locked where the tuner is no longer around to unlock or modify it for whatever reason, for example. I wonder if that might work for the "Braindead" LB7 ECM's that get the seed and key screwed up?

[Tre-Cool]

That's not a bad idea, except for the time required to execute the "crack". They didn't implement full A40 reading because it takes 45+ minutes to read the TCM, so I doubt they'd implement something that could take DAYS.... no offence meant, Ross & Paul :). I'd love to be wrong though, since that would give them an "edge" IMO; allow EFILive to recover PCM's that have been locked where the tuner is no longer around to unlock or modify it for whatever reason, for example.
who cares how long it takes, atleast the option is there.

Hell, it only cost me about $150 to get an ls1 bench harness from efi connection to OZ and less than a week for delivery anyway and i managed to pick up a 2nd hand pcm as a spare changeover for less than $200. So the time it takes for the program to crack the locked pcm doesnt really matter as i can have it chugging away on my desktop at home.

[5.7ute]

That would be a better option. You would have to wait for 10 years though as Ross & Paul have a big enough wokload as it is.

[Cougar281]

who cares how long it takes, atleast the option is there.

I said the same thing about A40 reading :)

[Tre-Cool]

maybe something they can add in the V8 release.

one can only hope... or look else where to start. lol

[Cougar281]

or look else where to start. lol

That's a bit extreme, IMO; EFILive is the best tuning software available (and has the fairest pricing), if you ask me :).

[joecar]

Sorry guys and gals...

I don't have the email here on this computer, but it mentioned complaints from workshops/resellers about publishing a hacking method.

[Tre-Cool]

That's a bit extreme, IMO; EFILive is the best tuning software available (and has the fairest pricing), if you ask me :).
i didnt mean elsewhere for tuning software. I agree Efi is allready the best for that.

I meant find other ways to flash over "locked" pcm's. I will stress, im talking about locked HPTUNERS pcm's.

[Tre-Cool]

Sorry guys and gals...

I don't have the email here on this computer, but it mentioned complaints from workshops/resellers about publishing a hacking method.

Of which we had no clue if it would work. it Makes you wonder.. Why?
I can't think of why a reseller would care if that's all they do, workshops i can understand. But surely it coudlnt be hard for efilive to detect an efilive cos tune and thus not allow an overwrite or read. I cant think of any good reason to stay with the factory os/calibration with the cos's available, so stiff biccies if it's a tuned factory os.

efilive, hptuners, ls1edit etc etc allready "hack" the gm code so its nothing new.

All us "home users" want to be able to do is overwrite a HPT tune without striping down the pcm to remove the memory chip from the board.

I would prefer to wait a week for a program to find the keys than
1) pay someone to do it. (with programs I KNOW allready exist to do what im asking)
2) disassemble the pcm to get to the eeprom.

[MICK]

Reality is, LS1 tuning is not far from being open format to DIY-EFI.

I'm not shocked that the thread got shut down. Reality is that, this type of conversation is and will happen somewhere else.

I respect Ross and Paul's Bussiness Ethic to support there Workshop Clients on this forum!!

Mick

[GMPX]

As you all know on our forum we tend to let people say whatever they like and mention whoever they want, we aren't precious princess's like some. I'll quote one of my favourite sayings "Gagging those that tell it like it is won't make the problem go away".
That applies to the locking thread, we know there is people out there unlocking LS1 PCM's so us deleting the thread isn't going to put a halt to some software eventually appearing that will unlock the PCM by brute force, but even blind Freddy can see it would be a very stupid business decision for EFILive to include such a utility or allow such software to use our hardware.

If an unlocking method comes out that anyone can use I know I would not want to be the one who released it in the US. :lookaround:

Cheers,
Ross

[Tre-Cool]

So that's a no then?

lol

[poconojoe]

It can't be that hard to do, I've had a comercial tuner do it for me already. After trying several times to unlock it or write over it, I decided to bite the bullet and pay the $35 to get it done. I understand why the tuner locked it, after charging over $600, for the dyno tune on the PCM, I'd have been ashamed to admite it was my work and have locked it too.

[mr.prick]

LOL
I had one of those tunes before too, but fortunately it wasn't locked.

[gmh308]

Yes LOL........the tune you've got when you haven't got a tune.

[joecar]

Yes, it's a shame that you got a tune like that, and that you have to pay to get it unlocked.