Go with an autometer wideband?

[ratlover]

I have a LS3 Camaro now to play with and need a WB.I ordered an autometer cobalt LED WB because I like the looks and it will match the other guages I got. It seems that not many people are running an autometer WB? Why is that? I can return it and get something else if need be. It shouldn't be too big a pain to get EFI live to log off it right? And it should be accurate? Nows the time to change if need be since I haven't put it in the car yet. Thanks in advance :)

[mr.prick]

IMO
Steer clear of anything that can't free air calibrate or doesn't give the Lambda output range.

[swingtan]

I went with the Techedge 2J1 WB controller (http://wbo2.com/2j/default.htm) and an LA1 Circular Display (http://wbo2.com/la1/default.htm). While the pair will probably set you back a little more than the Autometer, it does have a free air calibration as well as a serial port to connect to the V2. If you don't go with serial, it has a ground referenced analogue output to eliminate ground offsets.

You may be able to ask them to do one with blue digits....

Simon.

[ratlover]

auto meter # 6178 http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=3606&sid=4

Notes:
Includes 8 ft. tubing or wiring harness.
LED digital display.
0-4v data output feed for ECU, data acquisition unit, or Laptop tuning
Auto-Dimming gauge brightness feature
Includes custom tuned .1 AFR Resolution Bosch LSU4.2 Sensor
Display data in Lambda or numerical A/F ratio
User programmable range
Peak recall/memory
10:1 to 20:1 AFR Range for Gasoline Applications
Adjustable for Alternate Fuel Types (Ethanol, Methanol, Propane, CNG)
6:1 to 18:1 AFR Range for Alternate Fuel Types
User Programmable Warning Function
This product has no provision for dial illumination/backlighting.

Guessing free air calibration you just have it calibrate itself sitting out side the car?

[mr.prick]

Wideband Controller Poll (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=13361&highlight=wideband+poll)

[ratlover]

That poll is why I asked the question. Figured there had to be a reason no body was running autometer WB's lol

[mr.prick]

That poll is less than a week old, it would be nice to get more members to vote. :)

[swingtan]

we need one of the mods to force all users to vote..... :p

[joecar]

we need one of the mods to force all users to vote..... :pHow do I do that...? :)

[swingtan]

I know you can force users view and acknowledge certain posts, like the "terms and conditions" page. I don't know if this extends to general threads though. It's probably more of an "admin" task in the end to set it up.

Simon.

[mr.prick]

we need one of the mods to force all users to vote..... :p


How do I do that...? :)

Sticky? :wavetowel2:

[ratlover]

Who do I contact when a mod hijacks a post? :hihi:

I don't know much about FI gassers and nothing about widebands. What makes a LC with controler for instance better than just an autometer unit? I can get EFIlive to log an autometer easy enough right?

[joecar]

You can complain to me... I'll chew him out good... :hihi:

[ratlover]

:hihi:

[Chuck L.]

That poll is less than a week old, it would be nice to get more members to vote. :)

1 week old, but may have some useable info...
http://www.paceperformance.com/paceperformance/pdf/widebandshootout.pdf

[mr.prick]

Yeah, but there weren't too many votes when I said that :grin:
and for some reason there hasn't been a thread with with actual user feedback with a poll. :confused:
There was a little bit of controversy the last time I linked that article. :hihi:

[swingtan]

I think the reason that article was of limited use to people here, was because it looked at the WB controllers as individual entities. Most of the people here don't want to know "what is the 'best' WB controller", what they want to know is " What is the best WB controller when working with the EFILive hardware and software, that also fits their budget."

There are many professional tuners and some private tuners that would have the resources to go out and get the fastest and most accurate WB controller that money can buy. Then there are those of us that need to look for something a lot closer to what we can afford. In either case, there are a list of requirements that should be looked at when getting a WB controller.

Must Have


Accuracy
Responsiveness
A calibration Feature
Connectivity to the EFILive V1 or V2 scan tool.
Both Lambda and AFR outputs
A robust construction

Should Have


RS-232 serial output ( to eliminate ground offsets )
Ground referenced analogue outputs ( to minimise ground offsets if using analogue signals ).
Status indicators ( for heating, calibration, error conditions )
User configurable settings ( adjustable Stoichiometric point for AFR output, sample rates, etc. )

Nice To Have


Dedicated Display
Ability to log additional data ( some controllers are more like the V1 scan tool and can also read analogue and digital signals )
Ability to update firmware
Ability for using multiple O2 sensor types
Ability to interface with Dynomometer systems
A manufacturer / support team that are responsive to customer needs and willing to spend time helping out.


If you can tick off all of the "must haves" and most of the "should haves", than you will have a good WB controller. If you can also tick off a few of the "nice to haves" you will be a happy tuner....

Whether the controller comers with it's own software or not and whetyher that software is any good, really doesn't matter as the majority of people here will be using EFILive. The V1 and V2 will give much better log data, if for no other reason than it's in a format that people are already very used to.

Simon.

[Chuck L.]

Simon's assessment of the "best of both worlds" wb.
To Blacky, Ross and co: How about you guys design and build a wb system that has the must have and should have items, & the rest as add-ons??:hihi:
That way, each user can add options he/she can afford. The hi rollers could get the "whole 9 yards"...:cheers:

[swingtan]

Because TechEdge already do pretty much all of the list..... Not to mention trying to do that would add another $300 to $500 on the price of the v2 ( or V4 as it would be by then ). It's not a bad idea, I just think the guys are flat out with other things ATM.

Simon.

[ScarabEpic22]

EFILive has a lot on their plate right now, Cummins development, getting V8 fully out asap, keeping up support for current and future GM platforms, website, forum, more.

I looked at the TechEdge setup, and really liked them! But, it would have been a pain to get one here in the US so I went with the Innovate LC1. Seems pretty accurate and reacts very quickly, I hope it doesnt crap out on me in a year like some people have reported.

[ratlover]

Here is the current game plan, please let me know if I'm missing something.

Get an LC-1 kit http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16169&cat=262&page=1

No gauge, just log with EFI live.

I'm not big on gauges, i dont mind em if I need em but if I dont need to be able to look at it all the time I dont see the point in cluttering up the interior. Right now all I have is kooks long tubes, no cats and a 3" spintech cat back exhaust. I am really thinking forced induction down the road but not currently. I can always add XD-16 to the mix if needed i suppose.

I'm 99% sure on this but want to make 100% sure before I order another gauge and tell em I don't want it either, Hoerr Racing is cool but that might make em pissy :hihi:. So just double checking the LC-1 will do everything I need and should log nice with the V2 and I really dont need a gauge to look at?

Thanks again :)

[joecar]

LC-1 is all you need.

After you get it you will need to connect the LC-1 to V2 via serial comms (RS-232)...

You will need either:
- a null modem adapter with existing LC-1 and V2 cables: showthread.php?t=9340 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=9340),
- make your own cable: showthread.php?t=8115 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=8115),
- buy a pre-made cable: see user TAQuickness (http://forum.efilive.com/member.php?u=526).

Also see this: showthread.php?t=8858 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=8858)

[Ira]

The thing about polls for something like this is they tell you nothing other than who's been around the longest and who has the best advertising. When I spoke to Innovate about buying the wideband on a chip used in the LC-2 they quoted response times fast enough to get individual cylinder readings off a single sensor in the collector, 1000 readings/second or more. I've heard enough similar statements to lead me to believe that the response time of the sensors is way faster than needed. What it takes to test a wideband is a number of tanks of known content calibration gases and the number of people who have that setup is very small. I'm personally afraid of widebands that claim to not require free air calibration. Since the widebands we use are intended for general automotive use and since individual sensors vary quite a bit, each sensor has an extra wire connected to a resistor that the factory puts there to tell the associated electronics the initial calibration of that particular sensor and for what Volkswagen needed for doing real time tuning that was plenty good enough. I don't actually know how much that initial setting changes over the life of the sensor or if it changes enough to matter. I also don't know how accurate free-air calibration is or if it really makes a difference, but I feel safer with it because I find it easier to believe it matters. When salespeople at SEMA tell me their wideband doesn't need it and it doesn't matter, I always feel like they're bending the truth a bit or maybe they just don't know. Or maybe the packaged solution they bought doesn't support that feature.

Then again, for most people does it really matter if it's 12.5 or 12.7? I'd guess that just knowing it's not 10.5 or 14.1 is probably enough and repeatability is probably a lot more important than absolute accuracy.

Ira

[mr.prick]

Well put Ira. :cheers:

I agree that free air calibration and of course some type of definable output are mandatory.
Serial connection, programmable outputs and a digital display (in that order) are luxuries IMO.

The manuals for all the WBO2 controller made can be downloaded and should be read before purchasing.