E37, anyone interested?

[GMPX]

Hi All,

Our internal development level software has preliminary support for the E37 ECM, also known as the rental car ECM :)

Before we commit to putting some more hours in to this project I'm hoping to get a feel for anyone interested in tuning these.

The vehicles that use the E37 are along the lines of the 2007+ 2.2L/2.4L Malibu, G5 etc, plus the 4.3L V6 Silverado/Vans.

As far as what you can tune in them, picture an E38, it's pretty much all the same, including Virtual VE tables.

So, up goes the poll....

Thanks,
Ross

[ScarabEpic22]

I assume 2.2/2.4L Cobalts are covered under this umbrella if the G5 is. I think it will be more beneficial in the coming future, lots of people will buy the cars cheap and want to tune them. I believe the Cobalt SS (2.4L I4 non turbo/supercharged) is covered in this then, pretty sure there will be some guys wanting EFILive for them. Plus the 4.3 is in a fair number of vans/trucks.

[GMPX]

This is my list of what engines it covers, there might be more, I'm not sure.

------------------------------------
2007+ Ecotec 2.2L I4 (L61)
2007+ Ecotec 2.4L I4 (LE5)
2007+ Vortec 4.3L V6 (LU3)
2009+ Ecotec 2.2L I4 (LAP)
2009+ Ecotec 2.2L I4 (LE8)
2009+ Ecotec 2.4L I4 (LE9)
2009+ High V 3.9L V6 (LGD,LZ9)

[L31Sleeper]

Well I promised my little brother that I would tune his 2009 silverado 4.3 V6,
I would like not to be a liar. But if there was any hope of braking into the
Bosch DI ECM I would much rather have that. I know that there won't be any
new Pontiac Solstice or Saturn Sky Redline, but the Cobalt SS and HHR Turbo
are still in production. Is the E37 used on the older Colbalt SS Supercharged ?

[GMPX]

We are fully aware there is more demand for the DI ECM to be supported than the E37, but there is method behind our madness.
The E37 has been a slow ongoing project for sometime (well, a spare time project), it's very similar to the E38 so figuring it all out was no big deal. The DI ECM on the other hand is Bosch, totally different to anything we've ever done and based on that the R&D involved we don't feel is worthwhile, well, worthwhile compared to other ECM's we are working towards supporting in 2010. Then on top of that GM has already started replacing the Bosch DI ECM with another Delphi ECM on some engines, it's probably on the way out anyway.

[ScarabEpic22]

I have to agree with L31Sleeper, the Bosch DI ECM was stuck in GM's high performance cars paired with a high performance engine. But, Im not sure if they changed ECMs between the 2L I4 s/c and 2L I4 t/c. If they did, more headaches. Plus, you are correct, GM is phasing the Bosch DI EC out altogether in the next MY or two. Wonder if they're going to a Dephi ECM for the Dmax again (heard rumors of that happening)?

But, the E37 would be much quicker to get out full support for as it shares code with the E38 (and therefore I assume E67).

How many O/Ss have you guys found for the E37, is it similar to the E38 or to the E67. Know there are like 2-3x the E67 OSs vs the E38s.

[L31Sleeper]

Well I'll take any additional coverage I can get if it's not too much trouble. Is the Camaro v6 run by the Bosch ??
Since we are on the subject are we going to get support for the old 3.8 v6 ??

Thank you for all your work
-Justin

[mr.prick]

Who voted no?
More support is always a good thing and Ross needs the extra work. :hihi:

[ScarabEpic22]

Well I'll take any additional coverage I can get if it's not too much trouble. Is the Camaro v6 run by the Bosch ??
Since we are on the subject are we going to get support for the old 3.8 v6 ??

Thank you for all your work
-Justin

I think the new 'Maro V6 uses a different ECM. Heard its the E69-4 (not sure what the -4 means) by Bosch from a few places though. Same one as the CTS 3.6L DI V6.

BBR is already implemented for 3.8L V6s (and 3.4s, whatever use the same PCM from 96 - now-ish)... You can read 96-current V6s that use the P05 and whatever PCM they used from 96-04. You can BBL the P05 as well.


(side note, in V8 on the BBL side it says P05 from 05+, on the BBR/F side it says P05 04+)

[GMPX]

Plus, you are correct, GM is phasing the Bosch DI EC out altogether in the next MY or two. Wonder if they're going to a Dephi ECM for the Dmax again (heard rumors of that happening)?
Can't say for sure at this stage on the Duramax, the day they hit the dealers we'll know. You know I am hoping this is the case.


How many O/Ss have you guys found for the E37, is it similar to the E38 or to the E67. Know there are like 2-3x the E67 OSs vs the E38s.
Not too bad, about 10 I think, on the flip side, between the E38 and E67 we now support 87 different OS's, yes, 87!!


Well I'll take any additional coverage I can get if it's not too much trouble. Is the Camaro v6 run by the Bosch ??
Since we are on the subject are we going to get support for the old 3.8 v6 ??
All new ECM's are trouble :). The decider is if it's worth the trouble.
The Camaro V6 is still Bosch, we have no plans to do the Bosch DI ECM (MED9.6 I think it's Bosch name is).
The old 3.8L is pretty low down the pecking order, maybe one day.


Who voted no?
More support is always a good thing and Ross needs the extra work. :hihi:No I don't, that is a vicious rumour, 87 E38 / E67 OS's keep me pretty busy, besides, I bet that will hit 100 by the end of this year.

Cheers,
Ross

[gmh308]

No I don't, that is a vicious rumour, 87 E38 / E67 OS's keep me pretty busy, besides, I bet that will hit 100 by the end of this year.

Cheers,
Ross

Mind boggling. :shock: ~1000 parameters/ sets of parameters to keep track of/locate per cal? :shock:

[ScarabEpic22]

Can't say for sure at this stage on the Duramax, the day they hit the dealers we'll know. You know I am hoping this is the case.

Not too bad, about 10 I think, on the flip side, between the E38 and E67 we now support 87 different OS's, yes, 87!!

All new ECM's are trouble :). The decider is if it's worth the trouble.
The Camaro V6 is still Bosch, we have no plans to do the Bosch DI ECM (MED9.6 I think it's Bosch name is).
The old 3.8L is pretty low down the pecking order, maybe one day.

No I don't, that is a vicious rumour, 87 E38 / E67 OS's keep me pretty busy, besides, I bet that will hit 100 by the end of this year.

Cheers,
Ross

87?! Thats a lot of OSs, even split between 2 ECMs.

I know if you tackled the V6 Camaro ECM (even being Bosch) you'd have a lot of happy campers. Right now, the "other" guys arent supporting it for a while and people are chomping at the bit to tune them. The V6 makes serious power, Im not sure Id get a V8 in one. Tough choice, 25mpg+ and 300hp or 400hp and ~22.


Mind boggling. :shock: ~1000 parameters/ sets of parameters to keep track of/locate per cal? :shock:

No kidding, I can barely keep track of my small programs let alone 1000 params x 87 OSs plus all the LS1, Dmax, etc support. I bet Ross and Paul's notes are miles long.:secret:

[joecar]

Why is GM using so many different ECM's...?

[ScarabEpic22]

Why is GM using so many different ECM's...?

Not sure, but its called the E37 and from the sounds of it very very closely related to the E38. Since the E38 is used mostly on V8s and new V6s, the E37 is used on the I4s (and randomly the 4.3L V6, why not use the E38 for it like every other engine in the GMT900 platform? Seems wasteful to me). The E67 covers I4, V6, and V8. I know the big difference between using the E67 and E38 is E67s still have VPW comm lines whereas the E38s are purely GMLAN/CAN. So for an old platform like the TrailBlazer, the E67 is used vs the E38 as everything else in the truck is VPW.

For 10 OSs, and if its similar to the E38 I think this is a great project. Maybe get BBR rolling on it like the Cummins and old V6s, get V8 out, then add E37 support directly to V8 as a FlashScan V1 cant talk to it anyway.

[joecar]

You would think it would be easier to use one ECM, and parameterize the OS for the number of cylinders and anything else... then just program suitable parameters for each different vehicle... :doh2:

[ScarabEpic22]

You would think it would be easier to use one ECM, and parameterize the OS for the number of cylinders and anything else... then just program suitable parameters for each different vehicle... :doh2:

No kidding, I was hoping the E67 would have a simple parameter that we could select 58x, 24x, or 7x for the reluctor wheel teeth. I could use one on my 02 in a heartbeat then!

Probably comes down to price, I know E67s cost more than E38s. When I was buying a spare set of controllers for the SS, E67s were ~$150 each while E38s were ~$130 each. $20 a vehicle x # of vehicles GM makes = BIG bucks saved if GM can use an E38 over an E67. That said, if GM could make the E67 cost $10 less and eliminate the E38 altogether, they could save serious $$ on simply tooling costs for the different ECM. Theres probably a valid reason for them using 2 (3 if you count E37s) ECMs when 1 could have done it, and Im thinking the E67 costing $20 more apiece is the difference.

[GMPX]

I know if you tackled the V6 Camaro ECM (even being Bosch) you'd have a lot of happy campers. Right now, the "other" guys arent supporting it for a while and people are chomping at the bit to tune them.
Weird, I thought they did support them already given they do support some Bosch V6 ECM's, at least the ones Holden use they support.


No kidding, I can barely keep track of my small programs let alone 1000 params x 87 OSs plus all the LS1, Dmax, etc support. I bet Ross and Paul's notes are miles long.:secret:
The text file I created that defines table address's, table layouts etc is over 4,500 lines in length just for the E38/E67 alone. Yes, I have many backups of this file. I think I would find a new career if I lost it all, I couldn't do it again, it must be like 6 months solid work.


Why is GM using so many different ECM's...?
Would have to come down to price, if the E37 (which is made by Hitachi) cost GM 50 cents less than the E38 they would use it.

GM are getting so much better at this though, at least now most of their ECM's (except those supplied by Bosch) share the same or very similar code, back in say 2001 it was a total mess.

Cheers,
Ross

[ScarabEpic22]

Weird, I thought they did support them already given they do support some Bosch V6 ECM's, at least the ones Holden use they support.

Apparently there's a new Bosch ECM thats been giving them trouble, like the 08+ CTS 3.6L DI V6, 10 'Maro 3.6L DI V6, new SRX, etc. Sounds like certain OSs are the issue and its compounded by the fact that some cars used both the E77 and E69 depending on which V6 you get.



The text file I created that defines table address's, table layouts etc is over 4,500 lines in length just for the E38/E67 alone. Yes, I have many backups of this file. I think I would find a new career if I lost it all, I couldn't do it again, it must be like 6 months solid work.

Yes, definitely dont lose that one. Ive got at least 3 copies of my stock tunes on my laptop and external hard drives, think once I get my old desktop running again it will get a copy as well plus I should take an old 1gb usb drive and back everything up onto it.



Would have to come down to price, if the E37 (which is made by Hitachi) cost GM 50 cents less than the E38 they would use it.

GM are getting so much better at this though, at least now most of their ECM's (except those supplied by Bosch) share the same or very similar code, back in say 2001 it was a total mess.

Yep, but wouldnt you think the extra cost of a different controller be more due to different wiring harnesses and setups? Not a big deal if the vehicle is designed with 1 ECM, but the GMT900s use the E37 for the 4.3L V6 and the E38 for the 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, and 6.2 V8s...Thats one I dont get.:confused:

Good to know the ECMs are similar now, probably makes it easier for GM as well. Plus makes your job easier too huh? Even just a little bit is always nice!

[GMPX]

Good to know the ECMs are similar now, probably makes it easier for GM as well. Plus makes your job easier too huh? Even just a little bit is always nice!
Unfortunately not because the ECM's get more complex :help2:

[gmh308]

The text file I created that defines table address's, table layouts etc is over 4,500 lines in length just for the E38/E67 alone. Yes, I have many backups of this file. I think I would find a new career if I lost it all, I couldn't do it again, it must be like 6 months solid work.
Cheers,
Ross

Is that 4500 lines per OS? :shock::shock::shock: You must have very strong eye muscles to prevent yourself from getting permanently x eyed. :shock:

[gmh308]

No kidding, I was hoping the E67 would have a simple parameter that we could select 58x, 24x, or 7x for the reluctor wheel teeth. I could use one on my 02 in a heartbeat then!

Probably comes down to price, I know E67s cost more than E38s. When I was buying a spare set of controllers for the SS, E67s were ~$150 each while E38s were ~$130 each. $20 a vehicle x # of vehicles GM makes = BIG bucks saved if GM can use an E38 over an E67. That said, if GM could make the E67 cost $10 less and eliminate the E38 altogether, they could save serious $$ on simply tooling costs for the different ECM. Theres probably a valid reason for them using 2 (3 if you count E37s) ECMs when 1 could have done it, and Im thinking the E67 costing $20 more apiece is the difference.

At a guess based on costs and target margins the controllers unit costs in GM quantities are around $20 - $30 each. They are rather simple from pics I have seen. 1 x big processor. 1 x little processor. 2 x flash chips. 1 x ram chip. A few dozen SMD resistors and caps. And a little mulit layer PCB. All in a die cast box with connectors. Probably $10-$15 plus assembly costs a 100,000 at a time. Cost of an E67 over an E38 - mainly additional connector, different case, slightly different PCB, slightly smarter big processor and a few more caps and resistors. :)

:)

[ScarabEpic22]

Unfortunately not because the ECM's get more complex :help2:

Very true I guess.:help2:


At a guess based on costs and target margins the controllers unit costs in GM quantities are around $20 - $30 each. They are rather simple from pics I have seen. 1 x big processor. 1 x little processor. 2 x flash chips. 1 x ram chip. A few dozen SMD resistors and caps. And a little mulit layer PCB. All in a die cast box with connectors. Probably $10-$15 plus assembly costs a 100,000 at a time. Cost of an E67 over an E38 - mainly additional connector, different case, slightly different PCB, slightly smarter big processor and a few more caps and resistors. :)

:)

Very true, the extra connector and extra things makes the difference. Probably only costs GM a dollar or 2 for each E67 vs E38 used.

[GMPX]

Is that 4500 lines per OS? :shock::shock::shock: You must have very strong eye muscles to prevent yourself from getting permanently x eyed. :shock:No, that is in total. I gave in to the need for glasses years ago, staring at a computer screen all day does wonders for your vision.

[DURAtotheMAX]

Can't say for sure at this stage on the Duramax, the day they hit the dealers we'll know. You know I am hoping this is the case.

pictures of connectors and harnesses dont lie! :D :p:

[ScarabEpic22]

Any update on this? I dont want to see a potentially great set of engines go without a tuning option...

[GAMEOVER]

Any update on this? I dont want to see a potentially great set of engines go without a tuning option...

Me too!!!....:hihi:

[GMPX]

Update as requested, this weekend beta software will be sent out to some people who expressed high interested to us for E37 tuning.
This beta update includes read/write and editing/scanning for the 2007-2010 E37 cars/trucks, including Virtual VE tables of course.
If all goes well this update will probably get released within a week or so.
If anyone else is also interested in doing some on vehicle testing then please contact support@efilive.com

E37 ECM vehicle applications are listed below.

Cheers,
Ross

V6 Vans
08-10 Chevrolet Express 4.3L
08-10 GMC Savana 4.3L

V6 Truck
07-10 Chevrolet Silverado 4.3L
07-10 GMC Sierra 4.3L

V6 Cars
09-10 Buick Lucerne 3.9L
10 Chevrolet Impala 3.5L, 3.9L
10 Chevrolet Malibu 3.5L

SUV's
08-09 Saturn VUE 2.4L

L4 Cars
07-10 Chevrolet Cobalt 2.2L
08 Chevrolet Cobalt Sport 2.4L
07-10 Chevrolet HHR 2.2L, 2.4L
07-08 Chevrolet Malibu 2.2L
08-10 Chevrolet Malibu 2.4L
07-09 Pontiac G5 2.2L
08 Pontiac G5 GT 2.4L
08-09 Pontiac G6 2.4L
08-09 Pontiac Solstice 2.4L
08-09 Saturn Aura 2.4L
08-09 Saturn Sky 2.4L

[ScarabEpic22]

Cool!

If I can do anything let me know, unfortunately I dont have access to any of the E37 cars. Kinda hard when your family all drives VW/Audis to get GM cars to read/tune.:shock:

Glad to see this project is going into beta, means there will be even more vehicles EFILive supports! Always a good thing.