RR problems

[bvd80]

Ok, I just got the guts kit installed and it connects just fine. When I try to flash an operating system/calibration in, this is what I get... I thought I read that the 1MB emulator will work on both the 512/1MB PCMs, so why am I getting this? What am I doing wrong here or not understanding?

[5.7ute]

The way I read it, there is some checks done by EFILive that wont allow 512 files to be loaded on a 1024 RR emulator chip. Might be worth giving Paul or Ross a pm to see if there is a workaround available.

[mr.prick]

Is this a 1mb PCM?
The OS you are trying to load is for a 516k PCM, it will not work in anything but a 516k PCM.
The 1mb & 516k PCMs are not pinned the same.

[bvd80]

No, this is a 512K PCM running the '02 Express cal. I was under the impression that this 1MB emulator worked on either of them. There is no option on the Moates site to select which one you want so I figured it worked on both...:nixweiss:

[mr.prick]

There is a only one type of RR and it is 1mb.

http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=87476&postcount=70

[bvd80]

Hmmm, then why is the already assembled Moates 12200411 PCM listed as a 512? I'm confused :doh2:

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=67_56&products_id=105

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=9821

[mr.prick]

99-2002 LS1 PCMs are 516k & 2003+ LS1 PCMs are 1mb.
Moates sells the RR installed in both, your choice.

Did you install the guts kit or is it a whole unit from Moates?
The first two digits of the serial number denotes which PCM it is and
the PCM case will have either blue & red (516k) or blue & green (1mb) written on them.

[bvd80]

This was a guts kit that I installed. I definitely have the 99-02 PCM with red/blue connectors. The first two digits of the RR serial is 02.

Based on the other thread I linked, how are others using the same RR and switching them between the older and newer LS1 PCMs?

By the way...thanks for all the help so far :)

[mr.prick]

http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=87476&postcount=70


The first 2 digits of the serial number indicate the 'intended' or 'installed' usage.
This is typically either 01 (for 512k) or 02 (for 1meg).
This is almost entirely specified in order to facilitate correct OS matching etc with the target device from the software perspective.



The 'check' or the refusal to upload/sync from EFI's side can be worked around I believe, contact Paul or Ross for details on this if necessary.

Send Paul a PM/email.

[Blacky]

Ok, I just got the guts kit installed and it connects just fine. When I try to flash an operating system/calibration in, this is what I get... I thought I read that the 1MB emulator will work on both the 512/1MB PCMs, so why am I getting this? What am I doing wrong here or not understanding?

You can force the RR PCM to accept a 512K file by holding down the Ctrl+Shift keys on the PC keyboard while clicking on the RR control panel's full-flash tool button.

Regards
Paul

[bvd80]

Thanks Paul, that worked!

But when I try to read the tune back out after flashing a 512K operating system/cal, I get a message that says "unknown bin file format". Is there a way to completely wipe out whats stored on the RR? I took off the battery in hopes of maybe clearing it....

Just to check, I did the same with a 1MB tune file and it worked perfectly.

[Blacky]

Can you send me the 512K *.tun file that you attempted to flash into the RR?
Send to paul@efilive.com

Regards
Paul

[bvd80]

Email sent...

[Blacky]

Sorry, can you also send me the BadFileFormat.tun file that EFILive will automatically save when it gives you the bad bin file format error.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

Ok, I have both files thanks. I can see the problem but I can't tell what caused it yet. I will need to talk to Moates about why it is failing and what we can do about it.

Once last thing, does the vehicle start/run once you have programmed the 512K file into it? Based on what I can see I would expect that it would not, but I just need your confirmation.

Regards
Paul

[bvd80]

Paul,

I haven't had a chance to actually hook this up to my vehicle yet. I'm running it on a bench-top harness at the moment, but I also suspect that it will not run the engine if I tried.

Thanks for all your help!:cheers:

[Blacky]

Actually after looking through the code, I think it will work and I think it will start and run your vehicle. Its worth trying at some stage.

I am confident that if you hold the Ctrl+Shift when clicking on the "read" toolbar icon, the RR it will read out the data correctly. Let me know if that works.

Regards
Paul

[bvd80]

Oh really? That would be nice.

I tried a full flash and read again, holding Ctrl+Shift and I'm still getting that unknown bin file format when I try to read the file back out.

[Blacky]

I am confident that if you hold the Ctrl+Shift when clicking on the "read" toolbar icon, the RR it will read out the data correctly. Let me know if that works.

My mistake, the Ctrl+Shift won't allow you to read out the PCM.

I'll wait to hear from Craig. Then I can make a decision on whether to not to implement the Ctrl+Shift option on the read as well.

Meanwhile, I'll send you a test version with the Ctrl+Shift implemented on the read to determine if it will read out the 512K data correctly.

Regards
Paul

[N0DIH]

The RR emulates the 28F800 and 28F400, and IIRC the 28F200 flash IC's.

I do not believe it emulates the 28F640, which has a slightly different pinout. But I don't think anyone ever used it in a PCM.... So it is a don't care. (more of my useless info...)

[bvd80]

Just an FYI..

Paul sent me a patch that seems to have fixed things for the moment. However, Paul and Craig are discussing features to make the option of 512K or 1MB much easier and smoother to use.

Cheers to both of you guys! :cheers: Glad I chose EFI Live:grin:

[ScarabEpic22]

Good to know, then anyone would only ever have to buy a 1MB PCM and it would work on any LS1 car/truck/suv from 99-08!

[mr.prick]

The 1mb PCM is pinned differently than the 516k.
I don't suggest trying to use a 1mb PCM with a vehicle meant for a 516k unless you re-pin the harness.
IIRC the pins are similar except for the coils, which could cause a problem. :eek:

The OP has an RR with a serial number the is meant for a 1mb but is installed in a 516k.
That is why he couldn't use the OS.
This check that EFILive does can save you from yourself. :angel_innocent:

[N0DIH]

Nope, they are "essentially" the same. The pin that is different is a don't care pin, so all the address lines are the same.

Not sure if I can post the datasheet, that is sorta "my realm", I dug into it quite a bit.

Maybe I can post picts of the 2 pinouts. But yes, the RR works on both.




The 1mb PCM is pinned differently than the 516k.
I don't suggest trying to use a 1mb PCM with a vehicle meant for a 516k unless you re-pin the harness.
IIRC the pins are similar except for the coils, which could cause a problem. :eek:

The OP has an RR with a serial number the is meant for a 1mb but is installed in a 516k.
That is why he couldn't use the OS.
This check that EFILive does can save you from yourself. :angel_innocent:

[mr.prick]

The RR will work in either yes but the PCM it is installed in won't work right if the harness isn't re-pinned.
From the diagrams I have:
Blue C1
28 - HO2S Low Signal Bank 1 Sensor 2
29 - HO2S Low Signal Bank 1 Sensor 1
Red C2
52 - Generator Field Duty Cycle Signal [F Terminal]
53 - Ignition Retard Signal [EBCM] C1 Pin 19
72 - Not Used
74 - Not Used
Green C2
52 - H02S Heater Low Control Bank 1 Sensor 2
53 - H02S Heater Low Control Bank 2 Sensor 2
72 - 02S Heater Low Control Bank 1 Sensor 1
74 - 02S Heater Low Control Bank 2 Sensor 1
I was wrong about the coils not matching :doh2: but the O2's do not.
I have also heard a rumor that only the '04 PCM has IAC drivers tho. :secret:

From the diagrams I have it does not seem to be a simple plug and play swap from a 516k to a 1mb
I'd be interested to see your diagrams for the 516K :grin:

[ScarabEpic22]

The 1mb PCM is pinned differently than the 516k.
I don't suggest trying to use a 1mb PCM with a vehicle meant for a 516k unless you re-pin the harness.
IIRC the pins are similar except for the coils, which could cause a problem. :eek:

The OP has an RR with a serial number the is meant for a 1mb but is installed in a 516k.
That is why he couldn't use the OS.
This check that EFILive does can save you from yourself. :angel_innocent:


Nope, they are "essentially" the same. The pin that is different is a don't care pin, so all the address lines are the same.

Not sure if I can post the datasheet, that is sorta "my realm", I dug into it quite a bit.

Maybe I can post picts of the 2 pinouts. But yes, the RR works on both.


The RR will work an either yes but from the diagrams I have:
Red C2
52 - Generator Field Duty Cycle Signal [F Terminal]
53 - Ignition Retard Signal [EBCM] C1 Pin 19
72 - Not Used
74 - Not Used
Green C2
52 - H02S Heater Low Control Bank 1 Sensor 2
53 - H02S Heater Low Control Bank 2 Sensor 2
72 - 02S Heater Low Control Bank 1 Sensor 1
74 - 02S Heater Low Control Bank 2 Sensor 1
I was wrong about the coils not matching :doh2: but the O2's are not.
I have also heard a rumor that only the '04 PCM has IAC drivers tho. :secret:

I'd be interested to see your diagrams for the 516K :grin:


I should have been clearer, I meant you could buy a 1MB RR and flash either a 512kb or 1MB tune in. You cant simply use a 1MB OS on a 512kb car as the wiring is indeed different, but since the pinouts are determined by the OS, using a different one will reroute the pins properly.

What we are figuring out here is that a 1MB RR will accept either a 512kb or 1MB flash, yes officially its not supposed to work (you will probably brick a 1MB PCM flashing a 512kb OS into it, but EFILive wont let you anyway) but it does.

[mr.prick]

I should have been clearer, I meant you could buy a 1MB RR and flash either a 512kb or 1MB tune in. You cant simply use a 1MB OS on a 512kb car as the wiring is indeed different, but since the pinouts are determined by the OS, using a different one will reroute the pins properly.

What we are figuring out here is that a 1MB RR will accept either a 512kb or 1MB flash, yes officially its not supposed to work (you will probably brick a 1MB PCM flashing a 512kb OS into it, but EFILive wont let you anyway) but it does.

There is not a 1mb and 516k RR, it is the PCM it is installed in that determines whether it is 1mb or 516k. ;)
That is was my point.

[N0DIH]

Exactly, usually the question is putting the RR in place of a 28F400 or 28F800 memory, I didn't realize the discussion was the PCM itself. Gotcha.

I haven't crossed it yet, but I am planning an 0411 swap soon, but was wondering about using the 03-up truck PCM's instead (I have one set for a RR already).

I suspect that a 512k PCM can be a 1Mb, but the offset of the code that is put in it and the OS is what matters. With a RR you can test it safely without "bricking" a good PCM.


There is not a 1mb and 516k RR, it is the PCM it is installed in that determines whether it is 1mb or 516k. ;)
That is was my point.

[ScarabEpic22]

There is not a 1mb and 516k RR, it is the PCM it is installed in that determines whether it is 1mb or 516k. ;)
That is was my point.

True, I was referring to a RR as a RR installed in a 1MB PCM already. Not just the RR module, it doesnt care.


Exactly, usually the question is putting the RR in place of a 28F400 or 28F800 memory, I didn't realize the discussion was the PCM itself. Gotcha.

I haven't crossed it yet, but I am planning an 0411 swap soon, but was wondering about using the 03-up truck PCM's instead (I have one set for a RR already).

I suspect that a 512k PCM can be a 1Mb, but the offset of the code that is put in it and the OS is what matters. With a RR you can test it safely without "bricking" a good PCM.

I got my wires crossed as well on this one, now we're all on the same page.

A 512kb PCM might be able to be a 1MB with extra memory setup properly, but honestly its probably easier to just buy a 1MB PCM. If you mean a 512kb PCM w/RR installed, probably. I dont know if there are 2 RRs, one 512kb and one 1MB, but if they're all 1MBs setup to accept either a 512kb cal or a 1MB cal, it would be easy to use a 512kb RR as a 1MB one. Hope that makes sense...

[N0DIH]

All the "512k" PCM's I have seen have a 1MB memory in them.

I have seem most all PCM's with 28F800's, only Black Box PCM's and some Northstars personally I have seen with 28F400's. And those have had 256k programs in them.

[ScarabEpic22]

All the "512k" PCM's I have seen have a 1MB memory in them.

I have seem most all PCM's with 28F800's, only Black Box PCM's and some Northstars personally I have seen with 28F400's. And those have had 256k programs in them.

Wow, ok didnt know that! Why would GM waste the $$ putting 1MB chips and only using half of the space? I bet they didnt need to do much to change to 1MB OSs. Dont most of the 1MB OSs have ETC?

[N0DIH]

I honestly don't know. Paul might know. Maybe there is some additional use of the other memory locations. Say VIN or CASE Learn or LTFT values or maybe even ASPARK values.

Not sure completely, but IIRC the "1MB" PCM's have 28F800's too, so maybe the PCM supplier got good prices on it that way, or maybe there was a problem with the supply of 28F400's so they had to use 28F800's. No way to know at this point.....


Wow, ok didnt know that! Why would GM waste the $$ putting 1MB chips and only using half of the space? I bet they didnt need to do much to change to 1MB OSs. Dont most of the 1MB OSs have ETC?