No Engine start on AutoVE.

[curtbriggs]

I increased the C6101 tables by 15% and still got reduced power,P1514 code, I bumped it up to 20% and also adjusted the VE tables with info from last logging and reflashed, now the engine won't start. It fired on a few cylinders and quit, I disconnected the battery for a minute, no help. I reflashed the 15% C6101 table and the previous VE table back in, no help. I stopped for the night. Can't miss happy hour you know.

Cheers, Curt

Edited, meant ETC Predited Air Flow C6101 table bumped 15% and 20%. Using the IFILive AutoVE tutorial, MAF unpluged.

[GMPX]

I increased the VE tables by 15% and still got reduced power, I bumped them up to 20% and adjusted the VE tables with info from last logging and reflashed, now the engine won't start. It fired on a few cylinders and quit, I disconnected the battery for a minute, no help. I reflashed the 15% with previous VE table back in, no help. I stopped for the night. Can't miss happy hour you know.

Cheers, Curt

Is it a custom O.S?
Running MAF?

Cheers,
Ross

[curtbriggs]

I increased the VE tables by 15% and still got reduced power, I bumped them up to 20% and adjusted the VE tables with info from last logging and reflashed, now the engine won't start. It fired on a few cylinders and quit, I disconnected the battery for a minute, no help. I reflashed the 15% with previous VE table back in, no help. I stopped for the night. Can't miss happy hour you know.

Cheers, Curt

Is it a custom O.S?
Running MAF?

Cheers,
Ross

Ross, I meant ETC Predited Air Flow C6101 table bumped 15% and 20%. Using the IFILive AutoVE tutorial, MAF unpluged.

Thanks, Curt

[curtbriggs]

I increased the ETC Predited Air Flow C6101 tables by 15% and still got reduced power,P1514 code, I bumped it up to 20% and also adjusted the VE tables with info from last logging and reflashed, now the engine won't start. It fired on a few cylinders and quit, I disconnected the battery for a minute, no help. I reflashed the 15% C6101 table and the previous VE table back in, no help.

Cheers, Curt[/quote]

Is it a custom O.S?
Running MAF?

Cheers,
Ross[/quote]

The O.S. is a 2002.

[Scoota]

Curt,
You will need to increase the predicted airflow by more than the 15-20% as you have adjusted it to.
I found that to be not enough. Try 200% from the stock figures and see how that goes. You may need to go higher but try 200 to start with.

Cheers Scotty.

[GMPX]

I am sure somewhere on here somebody had posted that you needed to increase them by the amount suggested by Scoota, once the tuning is sorted you can create a new MAP for that pred air table using the scantool mapping feature then paste it in, increase by 20% for some flexibilty and you should be good.

Cheers,
Ross

[curtbriggs]

adjusted the VE tables with info from last logging and reflashed, now the engine won't start. It fired on a few cylinders and quit, I disconnected the battery for a minute, no help.
I reflashed the 15% C6101 table and the previous VE table back in, no help.
Using the IFILive AutoVE tutorial, MAF unpluged.

Right now my main concern is why the engine won't fire.

Thanks Curt

[deezel]

Ok, couple of things to check:

1) Does it start and run with your last known good tune? Just want to confirm that it is the autotune that is the problem.

2) What version of Flashscan are you using? I had a problem or two with some of the pre-release verisons. One time my Idle air tables and throttle cracker got all messed up between tunes - it wouldn't run.

3) Do a tune compare for the autotune and the last known good tune. See if any of the idle or throttle tables have changed. Look for anything you did not intend to change in the autotune.

4) Also, if you are running a 2002 OS on a 99 vehicle - has this worked successfully before your attempts at autotuning? Just checking in case there is some difference between the years for OS.

[DrX]

Also, is P1514 still the only DTC set? PM sent.

[curtbriggs]

[quote="deezel"]Ok, couple of things to check:

1) Does it start and run with your last known good tune? Just want to confirm that it is the autotune that is the problem.

A: Yes

2) What version of Flashscan are you using? I had a problem or two with some of the pre-release verisons. One time my Idle air tables and throttle cracker got all messed up between tunes - it wouldn't run.

A: 7.3.1 The lastest pre-release.

3) Do a tune compare for the autotune and the last known good tune. See if any of the idle or throttle tables have changed. Look for anything you did not intend to change in the autotune.

A: I reflashed a known good AutoVE tune. I didn't see any change.

4) Also, if you are running a 2002 OS on a 99 vehicle - has this worked successfully before your attempts at autotuning? Just checking in case there is some difference between the years for OS.[/quote

A: Yes, ran fine.

I feel it has to do with my first attemp to change the VE tables with one short log secession. However removing that change didn't correct the no start. I didn't disconnect the battery after that reflash. going out to do that now and check fuses.

Thank, Curt

[curtbriggs]

Also, is P1514 still the only DTC set? PM sent.

The P1514 was set on a logging run. No codes now.

Thanks, Curt

[curtbriggs]

Just to start it again, it will start only if the throttle is wide open but won't idle. The motor is cold with the temperatures are in the 30*s F so I let it die. Strong smell of Gas.

I'm going to recheck tables and reflash.

Curt

[Blacky]

Just to start it again, it will start only if the throttle is wide open but won't idle. The motor is cold with the temperatures are in the 30*s F so I let it die. Strong smell of Gas.

I'm going to recheck tables and reflash.

Curt

I can't be sure from this thread whether you have installed a custom OS or not, if you have...

When you set the values in table {B3647} to 14.7 or thereabouts, please double check that the table units were AFR and not EQ Ratio or Lambda.

14.7 EQ Ratio is really, really, really rich and the car won't idle and will probably only barely run at WOT.
14.7 Lambda is really, really, really lean and the car probably would never run.

Regards
Paul

[curtbriggs]

Just to start it again, it will start only if the throttle is wide open but won't idle. The motor is cold with the temperatures are in the 30*s F so I let it die. Strong smell of Gas.

I'm going to recheck tables and reflash.

Curt

I can't be sure from this thread whether you have installed a custom OS or not, if you have...

When you set the values in table {B3647} to 14.7 or thereabouts, please double check that the table units were AFR and not EQ Ratio or Lambda.

14.7 EQ Ratio is really, really, really rich and the car won't idle and will probably only barely run at WOT.
14.7 Lambda is really, really, really lean and the car probably would never run.

Regards
Paul

Paul, the OS is GM 12593358, EFILiveOS 02040001.

I'll check B3647, I noticed that Logworks keeps switching back to Lambda.

Thanks, Curt

[curtbriggs]

When you set the values in table {B3647} to 14.7 or thereabouts, please double check that the table units were AFR and not EQ Ratio or Lambda.

14.7 EQ Ratio is really, really, really rich and the car won't idle and will probably only barely run at WOT.
14.7 Lambda is really, really, really lean and the car probably would never run.

Regards
Paul[/quote]

Paul, B3647 isn't recognized by Navigator.

Curt

[DrX]

[/quote]

Paul, B3647 isn't recognized by Navigator.

Curt[/quote]

Then you would still be using B3605. Do you have the latest cal files? I had the missing B3647 issue as well. A patched cal file solved that problem.

[Blacky]

Paul, B3647 isn't recognized by Navigator.
Curt

It is a table in some (most) custom operating systems. If you have not installed a custom OS then ignore my comment.

Regards
Paul

[curtbriggs]

I had to flash my backup 2002 tune and hold the throttle down to clean it out to get the engine started.
All my saved EFILive AutoVE tune files (from the Oct 02 tutorial) had dropped some settings (2).
page 8 #9, B4205 reverted back to 122* from 252*F, the scale stayed in F.
page 8 #15, C2903 changed to 18 and after reset to 1, it went back to 18 while I was checking an other setting. It would only stay on 1 if I saved right after I reset it at 1.
I read the PCM calibrations on the very rich no start flash and I can't find the problem yet, If anyone has thoughts on what to look for, I'd like to hear from you.
I hear HPTuners has a problem with settings changing.

I suggest rechecking all settings and if one like C2903 wants to keep changing, set and save.

I'm going to delete all my AutoVE files and start over again. I really picked up some power after flashing the AutoVE on the first two runs just before the engine went into reduced power. I've never had wheel spin in first gear just by getting on it after the clutch was out. At 4000 RPM it would start to crab and then code P1514.

Thanks Curt

[Scoota]

Curt,
I'm happy to take a look at your CO tune file if you are still having problems.

Cheers Scotty.

[caver]

Scoota your mixtures are waaay to rich hence the wot start and strong fuel smell.
The table you are looking for is the open loop commanded mixture table. Not at work so cant get you the nav number.
Suspect Blacky is on the right track.

[Scoota]

My mixtures are ok, you may have meant Curt's mixtures.

Cheers Scotty.

[caver]

[/quote]My mixtures are ok, you may have meant Curt's mixtures


ooops my bad :oops:

[curtbriggs]

Curt,
I'm happy to take a look at your CO tune file if you are still having problems.

Cheers Scotty.

Caver and Scotty, thanks for the come back. I went back to a back up tune to get the engine started. I'm still checking a few things out, will let you know what I find.

Caver is B3618 the calibration you're refering to?

Thanks, Curt

[DrX]

[/quote]

Caver is B3618 the calibration you're refering to?[/quote]

I believe he is referring to B3605(Commanded Fuel When in Open Loop) if you don't have B3647. B3618 shouldn't come into play until the MAP that you have entered in B3613 or the throttle positions entered in B3616. You could also check other PE enablers such as B3614 to ensure that the PE modifiers aren't active at low TPs/Temps.

[curtbriggs]

Caver is B3618 the calibration you're refering to?[/quote]

I believe he is referring to B3605(Commanded Fuel When in Open Loop) if you don't have B3647. B3618 shouldn't come into play until the MAP that you have entered in B3613 or the throttle positions entered in B3616. You could also check other PE enablers such as B3614 to ensure that the PE modifiers aren't active at low TPs/Temps.[/quote]

DrX, thanks, I'll check that out.

Would having the wide band, LM1, in the off position and connected to the flashscan cause the mixture to go over rich? I'm in the dark here so bear with me. I'm going to play with all of this tomorow, today was a honey do day.

Thanks, Curt

[Scoota]

Would having the wide band, LM1, in the off position and connected to the flashscan cause the mixture to go over rich?
Thanks, Curt

Curt, if you were tying to tune the VE's with Autotune and you had the LM1 disconnected or turned off, then that would pose some problems with the correction factor. Other than that I can't see there being a problem.

Cheers Scotty.

[curtbriggs]

Would having the wide band, LM1, in the off position and connected to the flashscan cause the mixture to go over rich?
Thanks, Curt

Curt, if you were tying to tune the VE's with Autotune and you had the LM1 disconnected or turned off, then that would pose some problems with the correction factor. Other than that I can't see there being a problem.

Cheers Scotty.

Scotty, I did flash a Main VE table (B0101) adjustment with the LM1 connected to the flashscan but off.
What effect would this have on the tune? Go Rich?

Thanks, Curt

[DrX]

Would having the wide band, LM1, in the off position and connected to the flashscan cause the mixture to go over rich? Thanks, Curt

It wouldn't make any difference to the EFILive Tuning Tool when you are flashing the PCM. Of course you wouldn't be able to log any wideband/BEN data if it was off while you were using the Scan Tool for AutoVE logging.

[Scoota]

Scotty, I did flash a Main VE table (B0101) adjustment with the LM1 connected to the flashscan but off.
What effect would this have on the tune? Go Rich?

Thanks, Curt

No it wouldn't effect it.
Curt, if you were to try and log the Ben with the LM1 turned off with out realizing, you would see corrections of about 1.3, if you say copied that correction into the VE table, that is enough to make it run Pig rich.

Could this be something you have done by chance?

Cheers Scotty.

[curtbriggs]

Scotty, I did flash a Main VE table (B0101) adjustment with the LM1 connected to the flashscan but off.
What effect would this have on the tune? Go Rich?

Thanks, Curt

No it wouldn't effect it.
Curt, if you were to try and log the Ben with the LM1 turned off with out realizing, you would see corrections of about 1.3, if you say copied that correction into the VE table, that is enough to make it run Pig rich.

Could this be something you have done by chance?

Cheers Scotty.

The LM1 was on for the my one time only log, but Data from it on EFIScan was inacurate, but the AFRs on the LM1 controler were in the correct range. The PIDs are correct for the LM1, but the AFRs are weird.
In scan, logged info;
Wide Band AFR LM-1, value 38.4, min 9.9, max 45.7. Would these be in the correct range if the controler sent Lambda. Sometimes the AFR box doesn't stay checked, why? I don't know.
Next line volts; value 3.8, min 1.0, average 3.7, max 4.6. The volts look OK.
In LM Programer, I set AFRs and .5V for 10 AFR, 4.5v for 18 AFR. I need to go recheck this and see if it changed, like if the AFR box didn't stay checked.

Thanks All for the help and your time, Curt

[curtbriggs]

I built a new AutoVE Tune today from scratch and no more engine start problems. I now have the AFR read out on Scan data, although they are one full AFR high, using the PLX data for the LM-1.
The only thing that I could find that was off was the Main VE table that may have caused the over rich no start.
I discovered that my new laptop has the click feature in the mouse pad, if one is unaware it causes problems. Things appear and disappear. No icon on the tool bar to disable.

Thanks to all, Curt

[Blacky]

I discovered that my new laptop has the click feature in the mouse pad, if one is unaware it causes problems. Things appear and disappear. No icon on the tool bar to disable.
Thanks to all, Curt

There should be an option in the Windows Control Panel->Mouse settings to turn of "double tap=click" on the touch pad.

Regards
Paul

[curtbriggs]

I discovered that my new laptop has the click feature in the mouse pad, if one is unaware it causes problems. Things appear and disappear. No icon on the tool bar to disable.
Thanks to all, Curt

There should be an option in the Windows Control Panel->Mouse settings to turn of "double tap=click" on the touch pad.

Regards
Paul

Paul, it's not in there. I have to down load that program from Dell to turn it off. The hard drive was reformatted and that was removed and not reloaded. Why it still works is beyond me. Now that I know it's there, I kind of like it, but before that, #%$^#$###!

Thanks, Curt