LS3 E38 question

[C6Guy]

I have a 2008 C6 Corvette Automatic with an LS3 engine and I have ordered the EFI Live Flash scan tool and I'm going to load a new tune from a reputable tuner into my car. But I have a question before I do. The tuner tells me that I can save the original tune and reload it into the ECM and GM will never know it was changed. But some folks on the Corvette forum are saying there is some sort of "flash counter" in the ECM that can't be erased that GM can look at and see the number of times the ECM has been flashed, and that they may void my powertrain warranty if they see the ECM has been reflashed.

I just would like to know what I am getting into before I commit to the tune, and I hoping someone here can give me the straight story. I believe the ECM is an e38, though I'm not sure I know where to look to verify this. "Under the hood" doesn't tell me much, as I can't physically see the ECM since it's behind and under the battery.

Is there indeed a non-resettable flash counter of some sort, and if so, can I circumvent the problem by buying another ECM and flashing it and leaving the stock one alone and putting on the shelf, or is there a counter of some sort in the transmission module too that will tattle tale on me?

Any and all advice would be appreciated. If I can retain my powertrain warranty, I really would like to do so.

[ScarabEpic22]

You do have an E38 ECM and a T43 TCM.

There is indeed a way for GM to tell if the CVN (Calibration Verification Number) has been altered by means other than a GM dealer flash. A flash counter has been rumored, I havent seen any screenshots of a Tech II showing it though.

You can simply buy another ECM and flash it, thats what I did on my 08 TBSS. However, your TCM is built into the trans so if you want to tune your trans, you're either going for it or not. Honestly though, not tuning the TCM means your car wont run 100%, a LOT of driveability comes out of a solid trans tune.

[C6Guy]

Yes, I was planning on having the transmission tuned as well, as the tune I bought is an inclusive system for both engine and trans.

I guess I was hoping there was some way to cover up the tracks if the car was returned to stock.

[ScarabEpic22]

You can try to reflash the stock tune back in, but there's no guaranteed the CVNs will match properly.

[C6Guy]

I'm told the CVN will be the same, but what I really want to know about, is if there is a RE-FLASH COUNTER in the ECM that is going to show how many times it has been reflashed.

Surely someone here knows the answer to this.

[ScarabEpic22]

I'm told the CVN will be the same, but what I really want to know about, is if there is a RE-FLASH COUNTER in the ECM that is going to show how many times it has been reflashed.

Surely someone here knows the answer to this.

Well there's no guarantee even the CVNs will appear stock, I believe it has to do with how many digits of precision there are in the ECM. Yes the flash counter will increment as well.

[doubledip]

in the tech/TIS read out it shows you who was the last person to write to the ecu... has the dealer number etc... so i guess they can tell it aint a dealer that flashed it last time

[gmh308]

in the tech/TIS read out it shows you who was the last person to write to the ecu... has the dealer number etc... so i guess they can tell it aint a dealer that flashed it last time

Is that a new function in 09 or 10 or has it been there for some time? Like back to 06 E38's and even E40's?

[doubledip]

I would have to check to 100% certain but i am 99% certain has always been there.. I am sure it has the dongle code as well of who flashed it.. and the dongles are registered to each dealership

[C6Guy]

I would have to check to 100% certain but i am 99% certain has always been there.. I am sure it has the dongle code as well of who flashed it.. and the dongles are registered to each dealership

I really do appreciate all the help. I'd just like to find out for sure exactly how the dealerships can check the ECM to see if it has been flashed. I've heard at five different stories now, and some claim they can't and other claim they can, and I just would like to get to the real truth of how the E38 works and what exactly is stored in it that can't be erased or changed.

If there is someone here who really understands how the E38 works and can explain it, I would greatly appreciate it.

[ScarabEpic22]

They can use their Tech II, see the last 10 flashes I believe, and if it doesnt match what is in GM's system then they CAN void your warranty.

Do you want to know how they can tell its been flashed? Simple, GM implemented a flash counter into their code that increments every time the ECM processes a flash command. If it doesnt match what GM thinks it should, warranty's void.

[C6Guy]

See this is the problem. I get people who say things like "I believe" and "I think" but no one appears to really know the answer. I've already been told that the E38 does not save 10 flashes like the newer ones do.

[ScarabEpic22]

See this is the problem. I get people who say things like "I believe" and "I think" but no one appears to really know the answer. I've already been told that the E38 does not save 10 flashes like the newer ones do.

Sorry then, Ive been told 3 or 4 things as well but Im relaying the MOST COMMON theory Ive been told.

The LMMs DO save history, its been verified. Ive seen Tech II screenshots. Ive been told the E67/E38s do as well, otherwise I wouldnt have thrown down $200 bucks for a new ECM/TCM combo for my SS.

Talk to a dealer, apparently no one else is offering up info. Or buy a 4K Tech II.

[gmh308]

See this is the problem. I get people who say things like "I believe" and "I think" but no one appears to really know the answer. I've already been told that the E38 does not save 10 flashes like the newer ones do.

hey bud,

E38's run from MY06 to present. There are dozens of different calibrations. supporting several hundreds different platforms. GM has different ones doing different things. Even the same OS does on different platforms does different things based on the calibration and platform. They do store a lot of different info. Hard for anyone to know the exact answer as its not public domain info just peoples experience. :)

Maybe GM can answer your questions. If you can get an exact answer be great to hear it.

Its already been posted that the dealer number who flashed it last is stored.

Cheers! :)

[doubledip]

I really do appreciate all the help. I'd just like to find out for sure exactly how the dealerships can check the ECM to see if it has been flashed. I've heard at five different stories now, and some claim they can't and other claim they can, and I just would like to get to the real truth of how the E38 works and what exactly is stored in it that can't be erased or changed.

If there is someone here who really understands how the E38 works and can explain it, I would greatly appreciate it.

whats the big deal???? why care...

if its warranty issue thing then simple DONT FLASH THE TUNE - safer that way :grin:

if its out of curiosity then i feel everyone has been trying to help as best as possible already. I will try and post some screen shots but my mate has my tech2 at the moment and the mongoose cant read that part of the ECU correctly to get the information :confused:

if you can be patient then i will post back in a couple of days with results

[doubledip]

well there are a few things different with what ia m about to post but it gives you the general idea of what are some of the things they can see with a Tech 2

This is a V6 ECU and the 2 screen shots are comparing a factory Flash with then my software flashing it (Not EFI LIVE or HPTUNERS - this i will try another day when i get my tech 2 back)

ECU Data Before flashing with Genuine Holden update calibration

http://www.sideshowsperformancewiring.com.au/images/forum-pics/b4.jpg




ECU Data After flashing with Genuine Holden update calibration

http://www.sideshowsperformancewiring.com.au/images/forum-pics/after.jpg




2 main things... notice the Programming Date has changed and the Repair Shop Code.. all this is in the E38 and i am pretty sure (sorry for you to have to make it another 5 or 6 maybe's ROFL)

[gmh308]

Interesting stuff!