Another lc1 question.. afr doesn't match on v2

[picnic_george]

OK I'm hoping someone has seen this before or maybe I'm missing something totally stupid. Using serial port into my v2. LC1 reads 14.7 at idle give or take of course but it looks fine on my gauge and on my logworks software. I connect it to my v2 and it seems it is reading correct in lamda and eq. Operative word... SEEMS LOL. I will admit that I'm lamda and eq retarded but either way both are close to 1.000 @ idle and fluctuate like I think they should. I watched both and when I'd rev it I would see like a .8xx lamda and 1.1xx eq or somewhere in that area and vice versa on decel.

But for some reason on my v2(8.1.2 build 95) and on scan 7.5.6 build 115 the AFR is showing somewhere in the area of 4.0-6.0:1 AFR, and it would make sense that they match but it makes NO SENSE that it is that far off from what my gauge/logworks is reading.

If anyone has had this issue I could sure use a little help. I've been searching for a while and I couldn't find any threads with an issue like I'm having.

I don't have any logs and I'm not sure that would be even important at this point. I need to make sure everything works before I even start on that.

Thanks
Kris

[mr.prick]

Usually when AFR is unreasonable with Innovate WBO2s it's because the fuel type in the LM programmer is custom.
But it would be wrong in both Flashscan & Logworks.

I haven't heard of a bug like this in build (115) but stranger things have happened.

[joecar]

Kris,

V2 with serial connection should read the same as Log Works.

Which AFR pid are you using...?

When the AFR is different, what do the LAM and EQR pids say...?

Can you post a log file.

[picnic_george]

Usually when AFR is unreasonable with Innovate WBO2s it's because the fuel type in the LM programmer is custom.
But it would be wrong in both Flashscan & Logworks.

I haven't heard of a bug like this in build (115) but stranger things have happened.The bug isn't in build 115. I was using 88 and it was doing the same thing. I've updated to all the latest and greatest, bootblock, firmware, efilive etc etc. I think the problem is in the v2 cable.
With a serial wideband there is no adjustment as far as I know correct? It's data not voltage so what it says is what it says from what I understand.


Kris,

V2 with serial connection should read the same as Log Works.

Which AFR pid are you using...?

When the AFR is different, what do the LAM and EQR pids say...?

Can you post a log file.I have my v2 set to innovate. EFIlive is set to WBO2_LC11 or something like that. Might have have been external WBO2. I don't think the PIDs I'm logging on my laptop at the moment are the problem. What my cable(v2) says and what EFIlive(scan) says match. The problem is those numbers are so far out of reality that I'm confused.

The AFR is reading somewhere around 4.5 with my V2, logworks is reading 14.7 through the serial cable, my gauge is reading 14.7. I thought for a second that it was missing a 1 so 4 = 14 but that was not even close to correct. When my AFRs are in the 11s-12s my V2 shows about 5.xx~6.

Like I said it would SEEM that LAMDA and EQ are correct. When it goes rich to lean they both cross @ 1.000. Lamda is near 1.000, EQ is near 1.000 but AFR is @ 4.xx. I'm verifying this with my V2 and watching my gauge at the same time.

I can log a file tonight and show you guys what's going on if needed. What pids do I need to log? Anything LC1 that says EQ, LAMDA and AFR?

I seriously think the issue is in my cable. :(

Thanks again
Kris

[joecar]

Ok, you have to use these pids for serial wideband:
EXT.WO2AFR1
EXT.WO2EQR1
EXT.WO2LAM1
EXT.WO2ST1

And the BEN pid is: CALC.BEN1

If you automatically set those up in S&T Device Settings then you don't need to include them in your pidlists in S&T Black Box Settings.

[joecar]

The pids called AFR_LC1x and BEN_LC1x are for analog wideband, you don't need those anymore.

[joecar]

You can also check the serial AFR/lambda/eqr in real time by viewing those on the V2 LCD:
on V2 menu go Scan Tool -> Data Logging -> Display WO2.

[picnic_george]

I'll check that setting and see where it takes me. If that doesn't do anything I'll post that log with all those PIDs. It will just be a short idle log, I'll blip throttle a few times. Anything else I should log while I'm doing that?

[picnic_george]

The pids called AFR_LC1x and BEN_LC1x are for analog wideband, you don't need those anymore.That's what I thought. That's why I was looking at external WBO2.


You can also check the serial AFR/lambda/eqr in real time by viewing those on the V2 LCD:
on V2 menu go Scan Tool -> Data Logging -> Display WO2.^That's exactly what I've been doing that's how I came to the conclusion that the EQ/Lamda look right but AFR is all messed up.

[joecar]

I'll check that setting and see where it takes me. If that doesn't do anything I'll post that log with all those PIDs. It will just be a short idle log, I'll blip throttle a few times. Anything else I should log while I'm doing that?If you include a cold start in that log, it will show a rich AFR that slowly progresses to stoich as engine warms up and CL kicks in.

Log HO2S11 and HO2S21 also for sanity check, keep channel count to 24 or less, I want to see the HO2S switching.

Sanity check: you did plug in the LC-1 terminator plug into SERIAL IN...?

[mr.prick]

http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=112020&postcount=11
Serial AFR is based off the value in LM programmer.
I suggest using {GME.EQUIVRATIO} instead of {GM.AFR} and
making a calc_pid for AFR based off {GM.EQUIVRATIO} & {B3601}
({GM.EQIVRATIO}/{EXT.WO2EQR1})
This will always be right regardless of what is in LM Programmer or {B3601}

Are you seeing the wrong AFR in the V2 screen or the software?

[picnic_george]

If you include a cold start in that log, it will show a rich AFR that slowly progresses to stoich as engine warms up and CL kicks in.

Log HO2S11 and HO2S21 also for sanity check, keep channel count to 24 or less, I want to see the HO2S switching.

Sanity check: you did plug in the LC-1 terminator plug into SERIAL IN...?Short answer... YES. I've checked narrow band they are working right. I had to tweak my IFR to get the car to my house but that will be fixed before I tune the car.



http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=112020&postcount=11
Serial AFR is based off the value in LM programmer.
I suggest using {GME.EQUIVRATIO} instead of {GM.AFR} and
making a calc_pid for AFR based off {GM.EQUIVRATIO} & {B3601}
({GM.EQIVRATIO}/{EXT.WO2EQR1})
This will always be right regardless of what is in LM Programmer or {B3601}

Are you seeing the wrong AFR in the V2 screen or the software?The v2 screen is what's wrong. That matches the S&T to a TEE which is how I know the problem is not in my S&T. My software as far as innovate goes is correct, so is my gauge.
I just perfer AFR as that is a value I completely understand. Regardless of whether or not I tune in EQ or not(which I probably will inevetiably) I need the AFR value to read correct. Because if it's not correct I feel like I'm using something that is broken. I'd rather not use the analog input if I don't have to, this is half the reason I upgraded to V2.

[mr.prick]

What Firmware is installed?

[picnic_george]

What Firmware is installed?Everything in your sig not including a RR lol. It's all up to date I made sure I installed all updates last night. Nothing changed after I did that.
I'm waiting on a call from innovate to see if maybe the data in the serial port has changed and that's why AFR is not matching. It doesn't make sense but who knows.

[picnic_george]

Talked to innovate thinking maybe they changed something on the serial out that would make the v2 see something different. He said it has always been the same. Of course if they did that I would presume that the EQ and lamda reading would be way off as well. Just something I thought might be an issue.
There must be a calibration or setting on my v2 that is messed up. I'll cheack that one that joe car said to check but I'm not sure that will fix it.

Still at work for another 5 hours lol.

[mr.prick]

If what you see in the scan tool is the same as Logworks but the V2 screen does not match,
I would think that is a firmware thing.
I checked my V2 and all was good tho. :nixweiss

[picnic_george]

If what you see in the scan tool is the same as Logworks but the V2 screen does not match,
I would think that is a firmware thing.
I checked my V2 and all was good tho. :nixweissNo scan tool and V2 match. So communication between V2 and the scan tool is right. BUT... Logworks & my gauge are showing the right AFR, which tells me the LC1 is working right. The problem HAS to be in the V2 itself. That's why I updated firmware but that changed nothing.
:doh2:

I'll tweak with it a little more tonight, but I really don't understand what the issue can be. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has had this problem.

[joecar]

Post a warm up log file (let engine warm up and let it enter CL),

[picnic_george]

Post a warm up log file (let engine warm up and let it enter CL),Can do.. :rockon:

[picnic_george]

OK, so here's the dealio. Lamda was set to some custom setting on my lc1. Changed that to gasoline and it works fine. Weird that my gauge and logworks was reading 14.7 but efilive wasn't. Oh well figured that POS out finally. Remember to check your settings in the LM programmer because appearantly logworks doesn't care what fuel you're running hahahahaha

Thanks again guys you're always super helpful.

Kris

[joecar]

Kris,

Glad you got it working...

Post your calc_pids.txt let us view it anyway.

[picnic_george]

My warm up log? I can do that tonight or this weekend.


Another question I had was in the auto ve deal. I set my ifr, turned off my maf and o2 sensors, increased my ve 15% etc etc. Every cell I hit while cruising was pretty damn close. I just want to know if that seems right. The car was idling about 14.2 and cruising pretty close to that number too. I figured my low rpm cells would be way off. The motor is 11.3-.5:1 ported ls6 heads with a .228/.230 112lsa cam. After I filtered it everything was somewhere between 1.02 and 0.94. Car runs good, afrs are good.

Those numbers are just how far off from commanded afr my car is correct? Multiply those into my VE table and its done from what I gather...
I did that turned my sensors back on and drove it the car drives fine and seems to accelerate smooth as ever. Just making sure I'm doing this right. I can post that log too.

[joecar]

When doing AutoVE:
- be sure to disable B4206.
- if running a COS, do not set any cells in B3647 to stoich.

BEN is the ratio of wideband AFR to commanded AFR... i.e. the correction multiplier.

[ more technically correct: BEN is the ratio of commanded EQIVRATIO to wideband EQR ]

BEN 0.94 means those VE table cells are too high.
BEN 1.02 means those VE table cells are too low.

When you get BEN converging to 1.00 (i.e. VE table is now corrected) then wideband AFR will equal commanded AFR.

Commanded AFR comes from B3605 and B3618 (richest of the two when PE enables).

Maybe bumping VE by15% is too much, try say +8% in mid-high range and zero in low range, and try again... the closer you can guestimate the initial VE table bump the easier the process.

Yes, always post logs and tune files, many eyes help find anything that isn't so. :)

[picnic_george]

I set {b4205} @ 252* F. Wouldn't this accomplish the same thing?

Anyways here's that warm up, I did that before I played with lm programmer and fixed it. If I didn't post it right I will later...

[joecar]

B4205 set high just disables CL...

B4206 operates in OL and uses the STFT's to trim to stoich cells in B3605...

i.e. if B4206 is enabled, then when operating from any stoich cells in B3605 the PCM will use STFT to trim to stoich... but only for stoich cells.

[picnic_george]

B4205 set high just disables CL...

B4206 operates in OL and uses the STFT's to trim to stoich cells in B3605...

i.e. if B4206 is enabled, then when operating from any stoich cells in B3605 the PCM will use STFT to trim to stoich... but only for stoich cells.Why the heck was that not in the tutorial? I feel like an idiot twice now...:bad:
I figured when the o2s were in open loop the PCM wasn't trying to correct anything. Well back to the drawing board, to get this fixed :hihi:

[mr.prick]

{B4205} is disabled stock, did you enable it?
NBO2 mV are way low in that log. :confused:
Even when ECT increases and WBO2 is close to stoich they stay low.

[picnic_george]

{B4205} is disabled stock, did you enable it?I did not... My car is a 98, I'll check my original tune and see if it was changed from stock. I had a half mail order half my tweaked tune in it for a while but that is something I never touched. Maybe he did :shrug:
I'm 90% sure when I looked at it, it said enabled. I should disable it and leave it disabled I'm under the conclusion of?



NBO2 mV are way low in that log. :confused:
Even when ECT increases and WBO2 is close to stoich they stay low.That's the least of my worries. Does seem kinda funny though doesn't it hahaha. I thought the same thing myself oh well.

[joecar]

Ok, that warm up log shows AFR at ~4... but you got it fixed now, right...? Post a new log.

[joecar]

With your 1998, you're correcting the backup VE table, right...?

[picnic_george]

Ok, that warm up log shows AFR at ~4... but you got it fixed now, right...? Post a new log.Ya it's fine, got that dialed in because I some how changed a setting in my LC1 to some weird gas. Not sure how I did it but whatever, weird it wasn't showing up on my gage as 4.xxx or my logworks, but it was on efilive lol.


With you 1998, you're correcting the backup VE table, right...?Why yes I am..

Just gotta turn off {b4206} which is what I think mr. prick was talking about when he said it's disabled from the factory. I'll set up a new auto ve and go from there.
I thought my VE had to be off even though the car idles and cruises like a champ. I figured my VE in the low cells would be lower with that cam & heads, but maybe the compression makes up for it.

Should I leave {b4206} disabled or does it even matter?

[mr.prick]

{B4206} enabled will cause STFTs to be active & commanded AFR will be equal to {B3601} when PE is not active.

[picnic_george]

{B4206} enabled will cause STFTs to be active & commanded AFR will be equal to {B3601} when PE is not active.Shall I turn them back on when I turn everything else back on?

Thanks for the help guys :cheers: