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Moonlight
May 29th, 2010, 03:53 PM
Hello, I am new to the EFI Live and i have a truck we did a swap on that i need some tuning help on. the engine is a 98 7.4L vortec, we used the painless harness PN 60216 and PCM 16229684 out of a 97 truck. Its a 2 ton truck so basic reliable tuning is all it needs, the truck runs great until it goes into closed loop. (suspect due to we have no down stream O2 sensors) i can't seem to communicate with it using the EFI Live yet i can with my other scan tools. has anyone had trouble with this using a painless harness? also any tuning recommendations would be great. i am more of a diesel guy but i get roped into doing some gas work occasionally. :doh2:
joecar
May 29th, 2010, 07:10 PM
Moolight, welcome to the forum...:cheers:

When you try to connect to truck using the EFILive scantool, copy/paste the text from the Console (F6) tab here.
Moonlight
May 30th, 2010, 12:22 PM
this is the warning i get..(see attachment) Calibration missing??


19:16:38.940: EFILive V7.5 Version V7.5.6 (Build 117)
19:16:45.128: Ready.

19:16:57.003: Scanning for EFILive FlashScan V2 USB
19:16:57.018: Autodetect interface ...
19:16:58.846: Interface not detected
19:16:59.534: Scanning for EFILive FlashScan V2 HAPI
19:16:59.549: Autodetect interface ...
19:16:59.737: Interface firmware version: 2.6.35
19:16:59.737: Connection to [FSV2] interface is OK
19:16:59.768: CAN-VPW Bridge Activated
19:16:59.846: Current protocol set to: "SAE J1850 VPW"
19:16:59.846: Autodetect PCM...
19:16:59.893: Connection to PCM is OK
19:16:59.893: Autodetect TCM...
19:17:00.456: TCM not detected.
19:17:00.471: Current protocol: "SAE J1850 VPW"
19:17:00.518: Interface firmware model: FSV2
19:17:00.549: Interface firmware version: 2.6.35
19:17:00.565: Interface firmware date: May 03, 2010
19:17:00.596: FlashScan serial number: 003693817129
19:17:00.612: FlashScan license number: 003693817129
19:17:00.690: Request GM VIN...
19:17:00.737: VIN: GM.ETCTPS2=None
19:17:00.737: Request serial number...
19:17:00.784: Request hardware number...
19:17:00.784: Hardware: 0
19:17:00.799: Request GM operating system...
19:17:00.846: Operating System number could not be determined.
19:17:00.846: Generating OS number based on VIN...
19:17:00.862: Cannot generate OS number from VIN GM.ETCTPS2=xxxxxx
19:17:00.862: GM operating system: 0
19:17:00.878: Request GM NVM...
19:17:00.924: Request GM Engine calibration...
19:17:00.971: Request GM Engine diagnostics...
19:17:01.018: Request GM Transmission calibration...
19:17:01.065: Request GM Transmission diagnostics...
19:17:01.112: Request GM Fuel system...
19:17:01.159: Request GM System...
19:17:01.206: Request GM Speedometer...
19:17:01.253: Request GM BCC...
19:17:01.284: Request GM VAT/IGN Cycles...
19:17:01.331: GM VAT/IGN cycles: 0
19:17:01.346: Request GM oil life...
19:17:01.393: Query support for stream.01 scan mode...
19:17:01.487: Query support for stream.02 scan mode...
19:17:01.846: Calculating number of dynamic packet ID's...
19:17:02.081: Loading generic configuration file: sae_generic.txt
19:17:02.096: User defined calculated PIDs file: calc_pids.txt
19:17:02.112: Enhanced configuration file:
19:17:02.112: No enhanced parameters available for VIN: GM.ETCTPS2=None
19:17:02.159: Request GM VIN...
19:17:02.206: VIN: GM.ETCTPS2=None
19:17:02.221: Request GM operating system...
19:17:02.268: Operating System number could not be determined.
19:17:02.284: Generating OS number based on VIN...
19:17:02.299: Cannot generate OS number from VIN GM.ETCTPS2=xxxxxx
19:17:02.299: GM operating system: 0
19:17:02.331: Validating PIDs...
19:17:02.362: Validating Modules...
19:17:02.424: Initialising PIDs...
19:17:02.534: Initialising Modules...
19:17:02.549: Ready.
Lextech
May 30th, 2010, 01:25 PM
I don't think EFILive supports the 97 PCM, only the 98 and up. I think the 98-2000 Black Box PCMs need the V2 unit.

Jeff
Moonlight
May 30th, 2010, 01:38 PM
Ya its a 98 pcm, the manufacture date was 97 but i don't think the vortec was out until 98 model year.
LS1_Dragster
May 30th, 2010, 01:54 PM
I have a 97 vortec, so I do believe you may have a 97.

Lee
Blacky
May 30th, 2010, 07:53 PM
19:17:00.690: Request GM VIN...
19:17:00.737: VIN: GM.ETCTPS2=None


That concerns me. The PCM is returning the data GM.ETCTPS2=None as the VIN. That is not correct and either indicates a problem with the installed EFILive software or a fault in the PCM.
After trying to connect and getting the above message, generate an error report (menu: File->Generate error report), save the file and post it here.

Regards
Paul
Lextech
May 30th, 2010, 11:27 PM
If your Black Box PCM has 5 connectors on it, then it is a 96 or 97 Vortec PCM. 98-2000 Black Box Vortec PCMs have 4 connectors.

Jeff
Moonlight
May 31st, 2010, 03:57 AM
Here is the error report. I just connected to a LB7 no problem so i suspect my equipment is ok.
the PCM dose have 5 connectors and looks just like the image on the 98-00 vortec pcm. the painless harness dose not use the 5 pin plug.

Thanks for your help.

Error report generated by EFILive at 10:50:13 on May 31, 2010

Error code: ERR_USERERROR/1
User generated report.

EFILive Version: 7.5.6 (Build 117)

Platform: Windows XP
Version: 5.1 (build 2600)
Processor type: Pentium 2094MHz

Directories
Temporary Cache: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\Temporary cache
Logged Data: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\Logged data
Customers: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\Customers
Configuration: C:\Program Files\EFILive\V7.5\Configuration
Exported Data: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\Exported data
Images: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\Images
Sounds: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\Sounds
Maps: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\Maps
Pids: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\PIDs
Virtual Dash: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\VDash
Print Reports: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\Print reports
Bug Reports: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\EFILive\V7.5\Bug reports

Connected: Yes
Com port: 0
Com setup: EFILive FlashScan V2.5: USB
Requested baud rate: 115200

Cable id: 7
Cable code: FlashScan V2
Cable desc: EFILive FlashScan V2
Cable version: 2.6.35
Cable Firmware date: 20100503
Cable model: FSV2
Cable Serial number: 003693817129

Protocols: 0
Protocol list:

Auto connect: No
Scan OBDII info: No

Error retries: 1
Retry delay: 10
Message throttle: 0

Most recently used VIN: GM.ETCTPS2=xxxxxx (Note: 1)

PCM information
Hardware Number: Unknown
Calibration ID: Unknown
Serial Number: Unknown
Operating System: Unknown
Engine Calibration: Unknown
Not used: Unknown
Transmission Calibration: Unknown
Not used: Unknown
Fuel System: Unknown
System: Unknown
Speedometer: Unknown
Operating System BCC: Unknown
Stream-Slow scan mode: Unknown
Stream-Fast scan mode: Unknown
Maximum dynamic packets: Unknown

Detected modules:

Selected parameters:
CALC.CYLAIR=1,18
CALC.INJDC1=1,19
CALC.INJDC2=1,20
CALC.POWER_RW=1,21
SAE.ECT=1,7
SAE.FUELSYS=1,8
SAE.IAT=1,9
SAE.LONGFT1=1,10
SAE.LONGFT2=1,11
SAE.MAF=1,12
SAE.MAP=1,13
SAE.RPM=1,14
SAE.SPARKADV=1,15
SAE.TP=1,16
SAE.VSS=1,17

Most recent communication with vehicle:
10:49:07.406 Send: $A1,$23,$00,$01,$00,$C5
10:49:08.718 Send: $A1,$23,$00,$01,$00,$C5
10:49:09.953 Send: $01,$54,$04,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$01,$00,$0 0,$90,$89
10:49:10.093 Recv: $01,$52,$04,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$F C,$C9
10:49:10.093 Send: $01,$54,$01,$82,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$C 0,$91
10:49:10.109 Recv: $01,$52,$01,$82,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$05,$00,$4 6,$53,$56,$32,$00,$97,$B4
10:49:10.109 Send: $01,$54,$05,$82,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$04,$00,$0 6,$05,$07,$00,$7B,$14
10:49:10.125 Recv: $01,$52,$05,$82,$00,$00,$01,$00,$00,$00,$04,$00,$0 0,$02,$06,$23,$5D,$D3
10:49:10.140 Send: $01,$54,$84,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$01,$00,$0 1,$F8,$8B
10:49:10.156 Recv: $01,$52,$84,$86,$00,$00,$01,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$F A,$F0
10:49:10.156 Send: $01,$54,$01,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$01,$00,$0 1,$40,$85
10:49:10.218 Recv: $01,$52,$01,$86,$00,$00,$32,$00,$00,$00,$01,$00,$0 1,$5B,$4E
10:49:10.234 Send: $01,$54,$82,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$08,$00,$0 C,$6C,$10,$F1,$27,$02,$00,$00,$EE,$7C
10:49:10.750 Send: $01,$54,$82,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$06,$00,$0 C,$6C,$10,$F1,$3C,$22,$1D,$4A
10:49:10.781 Recv: $01,$52,$82,$86,$00,$00,$0F,$00,$00,$00,$09,$00,$6 C,$F1,$10,$7F,$3C,$22,$00,$00,$31,$EF,$DD
10:49:10.796 Send: $01,$54,$82,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$08,$00,$0 C,$6C,$11,$F1,$27,$02,$00,$00,$EF,$AD
10:49:11.312 Send: $01,$54,$82,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$06,$00,$0 C,$6C,$11,$F1,$3C,$22,$1C,$B6
10:49:11.843 Send: $01,$54,$82,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$08,$00,$0 C,$6C,$18,$F1,$27,$02,$00,$00,$EF,$34
10:49:12.359 Send: $01,$54,$82,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$06,$00,$0 C,$6C,$18,$F1,$3C,$22,$1F,$2A
10:49:12.390 Recv: $01,$52,$82,$86,$00,$00,$0F,$00,$00,$00,$09,$00,$6 C,$F1,$18,$7F,$3C,$22,$00,$00,$31,$66,$1D
10:49:12.390 Send: $01,$54,$04,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$01,$00,$0 0,$90,$89
10:49:12.406 Recv: $01,$52,$04,$86,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$F C,$C9
10:49:12.406 Send: $01,$54,$01,$82,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$C 0,$91
10:49:12.437 Recv: $01,$52,$01,$82,$00,$00,$01,$00,$00,$00,$05,$00,$4 6,$53,$56,$32,$00,$93,$48
10:49:12.437 Send: $01,$54,$05,$82,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$04,$00,$0 6,$05,$07,$00,$7B,$14
10:49:12.453 Recv: $01,$52,$05,$82,$00,$00,$01,$00,$00,$00,$04,$00,$0 0,$02,$06,$23,$5D,$D3
10:49:12.468 Send: $01,$54,$06,$82,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$7 1,$4B
10:49:12.484 Recv: $01,$52,$06,$82,$00,$00,$01,$00,$00,$00,$03,$00,$0 A,$05,$03,$4A,$2E
10:49:12.484 Send: $01,$54,$23,$83,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$6 D,$A1
10:49:12.515 Recv: $01,$52,$23,$83,$00,$00,$01,$00,$00,$00,$0D,$00,$3 0,$30,$33,$36,$39,$33,$38,$31,$37,$31,$32,$39,$00, $4E,$A8
10:49:12.515 Send: $01,$54,$24,$83,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$D C,$7B
10:49:12.531 Recv: $01,$52,$24,$83,$00,$00,$01,$00,$00,$00,$0D,$00,$3 0,$30,$33,$36,$39,$33,$38,$31,$37,$31,$32,$39,$00, $28,$BE
10:49:12.546 Send: $01,$54,$26,$83,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$00,$7 D,$B1
10:49:12.562 Recv: $01,$52,$26,$83,$00,$00,$03,$00,$00,$00,$07,$00,$1 F,$14,$15,$01,$00,$3F,$00,$85,$86

Report ID: 354140 (Note: 2)

Notes:
(1) The VIN sequence number is not required for this report and for your privacy it is NOT included in this report.

(2)The report ID is a checksum of the report text and is used to verify the integrity of the report.
Moonlight
May 31st, 2010, 04:07 AM
i was just looking on alldata and it is only showing 4 connector pinouts for 97 or 98 but 96 dose show a 5th connector but no pinout. is it possible that we need to look at this more? the truck runs fine without it.
Lextech
May 31st, 2010, 04:23 AM
The 5th plug is a 2 pin plug that is 1 wire in a big loop. It is not usually used on retrofit jobs. I really don't know what it's there for anyway--It is just a big loop of wire. Your 5 plug PCM is a 96 or 97. To the BEST of my knowledge 96 and 97 Black Box Vortec PCMs are not supported by EFILive.

Jeff
Moonlight
May 31st, 2010, 04:58 AM
The 5th connector that i have is a 5 pin and like i said i am not using it. Do you know if the 0411PCM can be used on the painless harness i have? Painless shows two part numbers of PCMs that go with that harness but niether is the 0411.
I am hoping Blacky has an idea how i can get into this one, the truck runns good in open loop so if i could get it to run that way all the time i would be happy.
Terry
Lextech
May 31st, 2010, 06:00 AM
I am at a loss on the 5 pin unused connector. You would need to know exactly what year PCM it is and if Painless uses the factory wire colors otherwise the 0411 swap might be difficult. I thought I was up to speed on the Black PCMs---Guess Not.

Jeff
ScarabEpic22
May 31st, 2010, 11:17 AM
EFILive doesnt support 96-97 Vortec Black Box PCMs, do a 0411 swap and you can do a LOT more with the PCM.
Moonlight
June 1st, 2010, 10:28 AM
I am looking into 0411 PCM, do you guys know were to get the connectors?
Moonlight
June 1st, 2010, 10:29 AM
Also is there any sensors that don't play well with that PCM? or any other needed changes besides tuning?
Thanks for your help.
Lextech
June 1st, 2010, 11:48 AM
EFIConnection has the 80 pin connectors you will need for the swap. If the sensors are the same as the pickup trucks then everything will work fine.

Jeff
N0DIH
June 20th, 2010, 09:10 AM
I was looking at my 97 PCM out in the garage that I got from a guy who was parting a 97 K1500, and it is a 4 connector.... Has the cut off pigtails still on it. Will pull the PCM PN and see what it is....

Or just take it apart...
N0DIH
June 20th, 2010, 09:24 AM
As for connectors, if you are keeping low buck, head off to local boneyards (car-part.com) and ask them for them with the PCM if you are getting one too. I find them very inexpensive that way. I picked up 2 for my 3800 for $10 in a place in Indiana, both shipped to door was only like $25 total out of pocket. Just ask them to find you a pair or 2 of connectors too.
Moonlight
June 21st, 2010, 12:51 AM
I found a 0411 with plug for $75, haven't seen it yet. its been over a week, hope its coming.
N0DIH
June 21st, 2010, 04:32 PM
Keep us posted hope to be doing mine here very very soon..


I found a 0411 with plug for $75, haven't seen it yet. its been over a week, hope its coming.
EagleMark
November 27th, 2012, 12:20 PM
Is the pin out the same on 97 - 96? Wondering if a 98 PCM would plug in and could use EFI Live?
Lextech
November 27th, 2012, 12:34 PM
Is the pin out the same on 97 - 96? Wondering if a 98 PCM would plug in and could use EFI Live?

No, The pinouts are different. 96 is by itself. 97 is by itself. 98-2000 are the same.

Jeff
N0DIH
November 27th, 2012, 04:50 PM
But I have interchanged the 96 and 97 PCM's with no problems. (97 PCM in a 96 C3500 Dually)

But a 0411 swap is the best bet, far more gains that way.



No, The pinouts are different. 96 is by itself. 97 is by itself. 98-2000 are the same.

Jeff
Lextech
November 28th, 2012, 12:12 AM
The A/C wiring is very slightly different. But, The 96 and 97 PCM will interchange as far as I know (As you stated). Although I have never tried to interchange the 96/97.

Jeff
N0DIH
November 28th, 2012, 02:04 AM
I flashed the 96 .bin into the 97 PCM with no issues. Internally, I can't remember finding an iota bit of difference in the 2 PCM's. Same with 98-00. If you have them apart you would be very very hard pressed to point out differences. When I was on OnStar we changed the GM PN when we would do a form/fit/function change to our side. GM wants 100% tracking on changes. So if a supplier made a change, say second source suppliers in the PCM, it would get a different PN. Say the 0411 vs 4895 or 4986 PCM's, inside virtually identical. But might very well be as simple as just supplier differences. I was the one who took out the OnStar PN's for many years and managed the GM issued #'s.