Help with tuning my cammed 6.0L LQ4 jet boat swap please!

[Wasted Income]

Hey guys, looking for a little help with my tune for my 1975 CeeBee Avenger Jet Boat. I swapped the 454 big block out of it, and stabbed in an LQ4.

Before:
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs404.snc3/24476_558862143687_6605880_32634403_5736510_n.jpg

After:
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs574.snc3/31317_564196633327_6605880_32796770_1056738_n.jpg

Build Thread: http://www.performanceboats.com/html/forums/showthread.php?t=62463

ANYWAY, I am having some problems with getting my setup to idle / respond to throttle input.

Here is my setup:
-Stock bore, stock compression LQ4 6.0L
-Lunati 224/232 .585/.590 114+4LSA
-Patriot Golds and Comp pushrods
-LS1 intake with "2004 GTO" injectors
-Aeromotive fuel rail
-C5 Corvette return regulator/filter
-Bosch 044 fuel pump
-0411 PCM with COS5 - manual trans parameters
-Speed Density, Open Loop (no O2 sensors, No MAF, stand alone IAT sensor wired in, K&N cone filter on the throttle body
-Water jacketed aluminum log exhaust manifolds.

I seem to have changed a lot at once as far as the engine goes (cam, intake mani, intake tube, exhaust) and it wasn't idling worth a damn until yesterday. It is WAY rich, and I pulled a little fuel out via the VE table until I can get my wideband on it.

I have never tuned a motor with a cam this aggressive....most of my experience is with stockish cam boosted setups like my turbo 5.3L.

I know a copy of the tune and a log file are pretty much required for any help here, and I will post my tune and a log when I get home from work in a bit, but with the changes i've made to the core engine, can anybody give me some advice on where to start with this thing?

I followed most of SSpeeDemon's idle tuning tutorial and copied his values and it seems to have helped a lot...I just need some help to keep moving on this thing to get it running. Once I get to that point, I can do the AutoVE stuff no problem.

A BIG THANKS IN ADVANCE!! :)

-Jeff

[GAMEOVER]

That's a pretty cool set-up. Won't the wideband get wet if you put it in the exhaust?
Tune it on a Engine dyno...:D

[Wasted Income]

That's a pretty cool set-up. Won't the wideband get wet if you put it in the exhaust?
Tune it on a Engine dyno...:D

Sorry, forgot to add that I'm tuning it dry until I get it dialed in, then going wet again. Good catch though, and thanks for the compliment.

[Wasted Income]

Here are some starts from tonight. I pulled about 15% of fuel in the lower rpm tables, and about 10% out of the whole thing just to try to lean it out since it was like tear-gas in the shop...

The first start, it started well, then revved up to about 1500 rpm, then idled pretty decent for a bit, then i could hear the IAC opening up, and it continues to do so until it dies. Why is the IAC maxxing out just before it dies? I tried messing with the throttle blade a bit but it didnt seem to do much.

As you can see in the log file during the second start, throttle inputs won't rev the engine. Thoughts???

I VERY much welcome and appreciate any advice or tweaks on my tune.

Thanks!

[Wasted Income]

Here is the exact same tune with a little richer VE table and a log of a couple starts....hopefully this is helpful.

[5.7ute]

First thing to do is fix all the out of range values in the custom calibrations folder. (they shouldnt have an effect apart from the forced octane scaler)
C6001 needs P0101 p0102 & p0103 set to anything but not reported. because of this it hasnt failed the maf & you are in some other fuelling mode.
Then relog & post.

[LS1_Dragster]

This is probably far fetched but take my tune and modify the injector flow rate and engine size or just try it like it is.

I've found that tunes dont pass around to well but it might get you closer?

Lee

[5.7ute]

Also your base spark at idle appears low.

[Wasted Income]

First thing to do is fix all the out of range values in the custom calibrations folder. (they shouldnt have an effect apart from the forced octane scaler)
C6001 needs P0101 p0102 & p0103 set to anything but not reported. because of this it hasnt failed the maf & you are in some other fuelling mode.
Then relog & post.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! I fixed those things you suggested and it runs 1000% better!!! I was at my wits end, because nothing I changed seemed to do ANY good....wish you were closer so I could buy you a beer or 10 :)


This is probably far fetched but take my tune and modify the injector flow rate and engine size or just try it like it is.

I've found that tunes dont pass around to well but it might get you closer?

Lee

Lee, thanks so much for sharing your tune. I will take a look at it when I get home from work to see how you're doing things in yours. I am sure it will be helpful!


Also your base spark at idle appears low.
Base idle spark in gear? What would you suggest? I thought I set it to around 25* at idle, but I could be wrong. Will have to take a peek again.

I love this forum! Fought with this damn thing for the better part of a week before asking for help, and I had the answer in a few hours after posting here....LOL.

-Jeff

[Wasted Income]

Here is my tune that allows the MAF to fail, and corrects the out of range errors.

Runs WAAAAAAAAY better, though I need to decay the throttle follower quite a bit...it hangs for a long time after revving the engine, and it died the last time, in the second log.

[Wasted Income]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qI0BsAc9WI

:)

Routed the LH exhaust up, thru the transom for tuning purposes, put the wideband down inside like on the dyno. Runs pretty good at idle, but wasn't able to log much wideband data at speed, because the first time I stabbed the loud pedal, the sensor came rocketing out...and into the water. D'oh. Gonna put a bung in and try again, lol.

[Wasted Income]

Well, I haven't had a chance to AutoVE yet, but I swagged a tune close enough to be able to take it out and play this weekend :)
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs533.snc3/30277_565283844547_6605880_32841790_2997330_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs513.ash1/30277_565283854527_6605880_32841791_2983913_n.jpg

Runs good other than:
1) When I chop the throttle from speed, the engine dies.
2) Also, I am still getting a pretty serious surge at idle, after giving it a little throttle input around the docks. Will surge hard enough that it will die most of the time.

Can anyone look at my latest tune and give any suggestions as to what to look at next? I just did the RAFIG process yesterday. I don't have a log from these events...was out to drink and play, not tune, so....:angel_innocent:

Thanks in advance guys!

[5.7ute]

Have a look at B5935 & B5936 idle underspeed error. I wuld try lower this by at least 50% & see how the idle surge goes then. (Just an uneducated guess without a log)

[swingtan]

+1 for Idle spark control. It looks a bit aggressive and may be over compensating and causing the surge to worsen. What I normally have is something like the following...


LABELS Idle Overspeed Error (Degrees)
RPM {link: SAE.RPM} Value
0 0.000000
13 -0.373535
25 -0.812988
38 -2.526855
50 -5.493164
100 -7.514648
150 -7.998047
200 -7.998047
250 -7.998047
300 -7.998047
and...

LABELS Idle Underspeed Error (Degrees)
RPM {link: SAE.RPM} Value
-300 7.976074
-250 7.998047
-200 7.998047
-150 7.998047
-100 7.998047
-50 7.492676
-38 4.526367
-25 1.472168
-13 0.373535
0 0.000000
I'd also add more min idle air in B4307. Put it up around 8gm/sec at normal operating temps.

Remember that the engine will always want to have some amount of RPM drift, dependant on the cam specs. When the idle is tuned well, you wont really notice it unless it's a massive cam, but you can see it in a log. My E38 managed, cammed 6Lt seems to want to hunt +/- 50 to 70 rpm, but you cant really tell. I was looking at an LS1 with a baby cam last week and drifted +/- 30 RPM. Again. you could only really tell by highlighting the idle RPM in a log. I'll get some pics up when I have a chance.
Some logs would also bee very helpful....

Simon.

[Wasted Income]

Thanks so much for the input, guys!

I will tweak those tables you suggested and hopefully be able to take it out tomorrow and do a little logging.

Getting close now! :)

[ScarabEpic22]

Should have put a Duramax in it... :D

Cool project though, Im in the middle of researching an engine rebuild for our '87 Wellcraft Scarab I O/B with a Merc Laser 220hp EFI motor. If it was the I/O version, it'd have probably an LSx or 454 in it but being an outboard, Im at the mercy (and I mean MERCY) of Mercury's first attempt (and I mean ATTEMPT) at EFI. The dang ECU is such a POS, dont even get me started. Least there's 1 guy who has built an aftermarket plug-n-play ECU in 2 flavors, fully tunable via knobs and PC datalogging and the more basic one with a good tune for your motor and mild adjustment. Wish I could just slap an LS1 PCM with an S10 cal on it and be DONE, but no idea how Id make that work.