lc-1 simulted NB programming

[Gelf VXR]

It would appear that the LC-1 may be programable to switch to achieve other lambda values other than 1 (14.63:1). My BENS always read .98 to .99 in closed loop, have been thinking about adjusting the programable volts = lambda value, to fine tune, when i came across this site for an alternate wide band going into more detail.

http://www.zeitronix.com/questions/NBpoint.htm

[Gelf VXR]

Confirmed (Log attached), I programmed both LC-1 with lambda values for average 15.4:1 AFR

1.1V = 1.021 Lambda = 15.01 AFR
0.103 = 1.085 Lambda = 15.95 AFR

In closed loop, AFR are now in the 15.4 range. some fine tuning still required.

To compensate, I will lower the PE throttle % thresholds to come in at lower load.

[joecar]

Gelf, interesting, thanks for posting...

Do you have any logs like this with HO2S11/HO2S21 logged...?

[Gelf VXR]

I'll log and post later on. Initially I have seen average mpg rise from 13 - 21 mpg to 26 - 36 mpg..... over 12 mile distance, and i wasn't hanging about. Doubled ???

I'm now certain my mpg was down because the NB's were showing .98 BEN values in CL (14.3:1 AFR), as opposed to 1.05 BEN (15.4:1 AFR).

[MyM8V8]

I'll log and post later on. Initially I have seen average mpg rise from 13 - 21 mpg to 26 - 36 mpg..... over 12 mile distance, and i wasn't hanging about. Doubled ???

I'm now certain my mpg was down because the NB's were showing .98 BEN values in CL (14.3:1 AFR), as opposed to 1.05 BEN (15.4:1 AFR).

Wow. Unbelievable!

[joecar]

Hmmm... wow...!?!?!

[Gelf VXR]

Hmmm... wow...!?!?!

I was some what suprised, but thats what the dash mpg read, I kept a close eye on my afr's as I thought i may be too lean.

Screen shot of my bens for the journey attached

[Gelf VXR]

Gelf, interesting, thanks for posting...

Do you have any logs like this with HO2S11/HO2S21 logged...?


Must have been a glitch with the trip computer, same journey showed 23mpg today, which is more realistic.


Attached a log with with H02S11/HO2S21 pids selected.

[joecar]

There's a MPG/Lp100km calc pid somewhere on the forum... might have to modify it for E40 pids.

[Gelf VXR]

Thats a calc pid i'd be most interested in, I've always been miffed that there was no mpg pid readily available, yes please or general desription of which pids are required ?

[joecar]

See these files (rename the files to calc_pids.txt or copy/paste the CLC and PRN portions)...

calc_pids-mpg-3.txt consolidates the constants (you may want to check my math) and uses a single CLC entry.

[Gelf VXR]

See these files (rename the files to calc_pids.txt or copy/paste the CLC and PRN portions)...

calc_pids-mpg-3.txt consolidates the constants (you may want to check my math) and uses a single CLC entry.


I don't appear to have injector flow rate pid for the E40... The E40 does seem to be lacking in the pid department :(

[joecar]

You might be able to create a calc pid using the lookup() function and the value pairs from your IFR table.

[Gelf VXR]

You might be able to create a calc pid using the lookup() function and the value pairs from your IFR table.

We can create pids to look up values from within the tune opened in the tune tool? From the scan tool?


This would be a neat feature if possible :cool:

[joecar]

8383
We can create pids to look up values from within the tune opened in the tune tool? From the scan tool?
...Not quite...

you copy the (X,Y) value pairs from a tune file table and paste them inside a call to the lookup() function...

For example, see my calc_pids.txt file which does a lookup using values from table B4107 (CL Mode) found in the LS1 file:

lookup({GM.DYNAIR}, 0,0, 4,4, 8,12, 12,30, 16,36, 20,40, 24,44, 28,50, 32,54, 36,64)

parameter 1 is the x value who's y value you want
each of the next pair of parameters is an (x,y) pair from my B4107 table (x is the index, y is the value at x).

[joecar]

So... a similar method can be used to "lookup" your IFR table.

More info: see scantool user manual, the calculated pids/function section.

[Gelf VXR]

So... a similar method can be used to "lookup" your IFR table.

More info: see scantool user manual, the calculated pids/function section.

I think I follow, I can use lookup function 'lookup({SAE.MAP}, 0,41.737856, 1,41.790010)' using the table values below? What happens for MAP value over 80 kPa, not just for this example, but in the PCM? 45.722582 is used for all cells over 80 kPa?

MAP LB/HR

0 41.737856
1 41.790010
2 41.842099
3 41.894124
4 41.946083
5 41.997979
6 42.049811
7 42.101578
8 42.153282
9 42.204923
10 42.256501
11 42.308016
12 42.359468
13 42.410857
14 42.462185
15 42.513450
16 42.564654
17 42.615797
18 42.666878
19 42.717897
20 42.768857
21 42.819755
22 42.870593
23 42.921371
24 42.972088
25 43.022746
26 43.073345
27 43.123884
28 43.174364
29 43.224784
30 43.275147
31 43.325450
32 43.375696
33 43.425883
34 43.476012
35 43.526083
36 43.576097
37 43.626054
38 43.675953
39 43.725796
40 43.775582
41 43.825311
42 43.874984
43 43.924600
44 43.974161
45 44.023666
46 44.073115
47 44.122509
48 44.171848
49 44.221131
50 44.270360
51 44.319534
52 44.368654
53 44.417719
54 44.466730
55 44.515687
56 44.564590
57 44.613440
58 44.662236
59 44.710979
60 44.759669
61 44.808306
62 44.856891
63 44.905423
64 44.953902
65 45.002329
66 45.050704
67 45.099027
68 45.147299
69 45.195519
70 45.243687
71 45.291805
72 45.339871
73 45.387886
74 45.435851
75 45.483765
76 45.531628
77 45.579442
78 45.627205
79 45.674918
80 45.722582

[joecar]

I think I follow, I can use lookup function 'lookup({SAE.MAP}, 0,41.737856, 1,41.790010)' using the table values below? What happens for MAP value over 80 kPa, not just for this example, but in the PCM? 45.722582 is used for all cells over 80 kPa?

MAP LB/HR

0 41.737856
1 41.790010
2 41.842099
. . .
79 45.674918
80 45.722582

Yes just like that lookup({SAE.MAP}, 0,41.737856, 1,41.790010, ... , 80,45.722582).

Make sure all the commas are present.

Now, if that's your IFR table, then the x scale would be vaccum or manvac (defined as BARO - MAP).

Manifold vacuum above 80kPa is pretty much impossible to achieve, but I believe the PCM just uses the value of the last column (in general).

[Gelf VXR]

See these files (rename the files to calc_pids.txt or copy/paste the CLC and PRN portions)...

calc_pids-mpg-3.txt consolidates the constants (you may want to check my math) and uses a single CLC entry.

Hi Joe

Having trouble gettin to grips with this one, got a few questions regarding the math :help2:


The two examples given


"{SAE.VSS.mph} / ({GM.INJFLOW.lbpm} * {GM.IBPW1} * {SAE.RPM} * 4 / 6250)"

"1562.5 * {SAE.VSS.mph} / ({GM.INJFLOW.lbpm} * {GM.IBPW1} * {SAE.RPM})"

both having the same result.

Why divide by 6250 at the end?


I need to convert lb per hour to gallon per hr also? 1lb petrol per hr = 0.13 gal per hr (uk)

http://convert-to.com/flow-units-converter.html

My calc pid, I've got mph / IFR lb hr to gal hr to gal min * PW * RPM * number pulse per RPM

"{SAE.VSS.mph}/((({CALC.LOOKUP_IFR}*7.69)/60)*{GM.INJPWB1}*{SAE.RPM}*4)"


Im gettin miniscule results thou, even if i / 6250? or dont divide IFR by 60?

8597[

My lookup is functioning correctly without the rest of the expression

8596

[joecar]

...
"{SAE.VSS.mph} / ({GM.INJFLOW.lbpm} * {GM.IBPW1} * {SAE.RPM} * 4 / 6250)"

"1562.5 * {SAE.VSS.mph} / ({GM.INJFLOW.lbpm} * {GM.IBPW1} * {SAE.RPM})"

both having the same result.

Why divide by 6250 at the end?

...I'll have to dig up my notes, but the 6250 is an aggregation of conversion constants (to convert lb/hr, ms, rpm to gal/hr).

In the first one, it's doing 1/(4/6250)... this is the same as 1562.5 which is what the second one is.

[joecar]

...

I need to convert lb per hour to gallon per hr also? 1lb petrol per hr = 0.13 gal per hr (uk)

http://convert-to.com/flow-units-converter.html

My calc pid, I've got mph / IFR lb hr to gal hr to gal min * PW * RPM * number pulse per RPM

"{SAE.VSS.mph}/((({CALC.LOOKUP_IFR}*7.69)/60)*{GM.INJPWB1}*{SAE.RPM}*4)"
...
INJFLOW[lb/hr] is gated by the injector on time duty cycle, and converted to [gal/hr]...

it might be easier to convert to "base" units of miles, gallons, hours.

It's been a while, I'll have another look at it.

[Gelf VXR]

oops

[Gelf VXR]

What I meant to say

I think its the IPW thats tripping me up, I need to check the format of the number returned by the PCM for IPW, ie 2 milli seconds could be 2ms , 0.002s, 0.000033m, 0.000001hr

I have 42 lb hr injectors, which is equal to 5.46 gal hr, i need to convert to ms, then multiply by pulse width, multiply by rpm, multiply by 60 to get rph and muliply by 4 for the pulses per revolution.


((5.46/60)/60)/1000 = 0.000001517 gal per ms

At stand still, and idling at 800rpm

0.000001517 * 2 ms * 800* 60 * 4 = 0.58 gal hr, which is close to my observed

if speed was 5mph

5/0.58 = 8.62 MPG

[Gelf VXR]

Sorted :cucumber:

8603


Calc pid

"{SAE.VSS.mph}/((((({CALC.LOOKUP_IFR}*0.13)/60)/60)/1000)*{GM.INJPWB1}*{SAE.RPM}*60*4)"


Gear pid is required to isolate mpg by gear, this will be very useful for looking at effects of spark advance, increased tq should yield increased mpg :).

[joecar]

Good job :cheers:

[joecar]

A note to the reader: Gelf's CALC.LOOKUP_IFR returns IFR in lb/hr.