Which ECU for 6 Cylinder Coil On Plug and Custom O/S

[Tydriver]

Hey guys, I am not completely new to EFILIVE and GM ECUs. I had an '02 and '05 Silverados that I tuned and also now own an '05 Avalanche all of which I tuned with EFILive.. The '02 I ran on a custom EFILive OS. I've been away from this scene for a couple of years but I have a new project. I am looking to install an ECU on a BMW 6 cylinder engine and retain COP (Coil on Plug) functionality ?

I plan on modifying a BMW harness and using the GM ECM to control it. I definitely need to retain COIL ON PLUG functionality. I'd like to use a V8 PCM as it offers the most tuning options (vs the 4.2L ECU route).

Any help, links, or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Todd

[GMPX]

Your deciding factor will be the crank trigger signal on the BMW, it will have to match whatever the ECM is capable of. I can tell you now I don't think the LS1 PCM is going to work, the 24x signal it uses was specific to the LS1.

[Tydriver]

Thanks for the response GMPX, I appreciate it.

I am not concerned about the crank sensor, the newer(LS2+) generation uses a 58x ring where BMW calls this a 60-2 wheel (basically 60 teeth minus 2 or 58 :rockon:). There is a small amount of concern on the cam sensor but I think I can work that out, not sure exactly what GM and BMW use for cam sensor.



The biggest question I have is, (i haven't been able to resolve this issue) is how can I just plug it into a harness and tell it that its only running 6 cylinders ? The 2 spark outputs that I will not be using will obviously cause a problem in the ECU (or will they ?).. I wanted to use an ECU for a 4.3L engine but they to the best of my knowledge are not COIL-ON-PLUG and I need to retain this functionality.

I can not tell you how much I want to make this work. There is basically nothing in terms of datalogging in the BMW world unless your one of the chosen tuners. In short I've been spoiled by EFILive and their ease of use on the GM applications, software and hardware like EFILive just do NOT exist on the BMW stuff. There is increasing support for DIY tuning but still NOTHING that logs the data seen by the ECU. I am not afraid to make my own harness or do the R&D but the answers I have been looking for have eluded me to this point and I am running out of ideas...

[joecar]

The GenIV crank reluctor (60-2) may not be a problem like you said, but are the other BMW sensors compatible with the GM ECM (i.e. do they have the correct range/direction)...?

The GenIV cam reluctor is 4x.


edit: correction

[joecar]

How far along is your turbo project, and what amount of torque and power do you anticipate...?

What are you doing about the rest of the powertrain...?

I don't know how you would handle 2 missing cylinders...?

Would you consider upgrading to an LS3 (it's fairly compact)...?

[Tydriver]

How far along is your turbo project, and what amount of torque and power do you anticipate...?

No hard goals in mind, the M50 motor will do with fine with boost on stock components well past 300hp, in all honesty anything past this is going to require major driveline hardware changes I don't want to mess with so it will be a conservative build overall..



What are you doing about the rest of the powertrain...?

Worst case scenario I change it from auto to 5 speed manual, I've already converted one 3 series to 5 speed, if I have to I can do this car and that's it, end of story.


I don't know how you would handle 2 missing cylinders...?

ARRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH This is the golden question that I cant seem to get an answer for !!!!! :doh2:


Would you consider upgrading to an LS3 (it's fairly compact)...?
No in all honestly, BTDT on another car, not looking for another LSx swap project.. Believe me throwing a turbo on this engine is much more appealing than trying to re-engineer a complete drive line swap. Besides there isn't anything wrong with the BMW engine I just for some reason cant leave well enough alone.. I have a love affair with turbos and have 2 brand new garretts sitting here from a previous project, I also have a set of 60# high impedance injectors sitting around as well...

If I can just get the engine management figured out, current game plan is to do the following if I can get an answer on how to make the GM PCM work:

Swap Harness and PCM to stock engine
Tune to run with WBO2
Tune to run with 60# injectors with WB02
Tune to run e-85 on 60# injectors
Perform turbo installation and tune to run w/WBO2.

In all honesty, I already bought the Ostrich and Tuner pro from MOATES,(to run on the stock Bosch Motronic ECU) and I could use this setup but again there is NO DATALOGGING available on the stock ECU. I would need to use aftermarket dataloggers and that at best is a band-aide.. It still doesnt let me see what the ECU is seeing... VERY FRUSTRATING !!

[Tydriver]

The GenIV crank reluctor (60-2) may not be a problem like you said, but are the other BMW sensors compatible with the GM ECM (i.e. do they have the correct range/direction)...?

The parallels between GM and BMW (on these items)are amazing, its enough to generate another complete thread so I wont get into it here. But I am sure the rest of the sensor inputs are very similar or at least close enough that I could still swap over to GM sensors if needed.

One little tidbit of information, the automatic transmission in this car was manufactured for BMW by GM, its the TH4L30e (IDK, sounds alot weaker than the 4L60e)..


The GenIV cam reluctor is just 1x.

This is also good news as the BMW sensor is as well, for some reason I thought they switched to a 4x cam sensor on the later ECUs... Thank you.

[Tydriver]

The ECU I am looking at is 12200411... This ecu was used on 4.3L v6 applications as well as the 4.8L, 5.3L and 6.0L in '00-02.. This obviously means its COP compatible right ? I would be interested in seeing a PIN-OUT sheet for this ECU.. I just dont know how to tell the ECU to fire only 6 cylinders vs 8.. Is this just an OS Flash?

Does anyone know.. I am ready to pull the trigger on this if I could only get the answer I am looking for.

[joecar]

E40 cam reluctors are 1x, E38/E67 are 4x...

I just recently ordered an LS1 cam sprocket and the part I received I assume is the GenIV 1x sprocket, see attached pic.


edit: correction/addition.

[joecar]

The ECU I am looking at is 12200411... This ecu was used on 4.3L v6 applications as well as the 4.8L, 5.3L and 6.0L in '00-02.. This obviously means its COP compatible right ? I would be interested in seeing a PIN-OUT sheet for this ECU.. I just dont know how to tell the ECU to fire only 6 cylinders vs 8.. Is this just an OS Flash?

Does anyone know.. I am ready to pull the trigger on this if I could only get the answer I am looking for.I don't know the answer to this... there are forum members who do V6 stuff, let's see what they say.

[Tydriver]

I think E40 cam reluctors were 4x...

I just recently ordered an LS1 cam sprocket and the part I received I assume is the GenIV 1x sprocket, see attached pic.

That's cool, thank you for posting and updating this.. I sort of dropped out of the GM ECU Tuning scene about the time that all the GEN IV stuff was getting developed and released to us EFILiver's. I realize that I am most likely going to end up with a ver 2.0 hardware box too when this is all done, but more importantly I am trying to get up to speed again on the most recent GM ECUs and there is just soo much more to learn ! I always

The BMW M5x family of motors have an external crank sensor that's on the balancer and the cam sensor is on the driver's side of the head and I believe its also a 1x cam sensor. The only variable here is that it has VANOS(german speak for Variable Cam/Valve timing). On the older cars like I have its a simple ON/OFF affair at a specified RPM, that's triggering a solenoid so getting the ECU to control it or an external RPM switch could be made to work. But I guess I ought to ask, aren't some of the Northstar motors variable cam timing motors? Maybe I should be considering one of these controllers ? My guess would be however that there is even less support for these controllers than the 4.2L I-6. I don't know, just thinking out loud.

Thanks again Joecar, I appreciate all the effort. This will be really neat if I can pull it off..

[ScarabEpic22]

Todd,
I think your best bet is to use an E67 as it is a 58x reluctor, offers 2.5 Bar tuning options for boost, can control the VVT on your car (have to look more into how GM vs BMW does their controls though). Run a 08-09 4.2L I6 TrailBlazer/Envoy OS and Cal, they are COP, exhaust VVT, you can remap the VVE table to 2.5 Bar, and you can setup efans as well. Plus the beauty of the E67 is that it has ALL the support the E67 V8 OS/Cals do. You could run an 07 P12 PCM from an I6, but they have limited tuning options and since you're starting with fresh electronics, use the E67.

I might have an 08 TrailBlazer I6 file at home on my laptop, Ill check next week.

[Tydriver]

8176


Thanks !! You rock, a giant public thank you to Erik.. I cant wait to try this out !! I am headed to the scrap yard the end of this week to get a harness and going to order and ECU.

[joecar]

Todd, That may be your answer...
Erik, good thinking...:cheers:

[ScarabEpic22]

Just got back to internet, and I hope it works out Todd. Keep me updated on this project, if you can get a BMW to run on an E67 that would be awesome!

[Tydriver]

Well I've hit a couple of dead ends here trying to get the parts.

I tried to order an e67 ECU from www.ecuoutlet.com but their site flips out when I try to place an online order. Wont let me get past shipping and actually place the order. Has anyone had any luck ordering from them ??

I also went back to the pick a part junkyard and looked for a harness off a 3/5 series equipped with my motor.. That was a bust, I found a couple but either had the wrong motor or were not a vanos motor. I did score 10 GM LSx Coils, apparently there is some difference between the GM coils and BMW coils, the GM coils need to be 'smart' coils from what another friend told me and the currently installed BMW coils are NOT. I also scored a cluster out of a '02 TB with the 4.2L... the cash for clunkers program has really filled up alot of yards with newer stuff, really kind of depressing seeing all these new cars with the engines sprayed yellow.

I did email eficonnection.com and speartech.com about the connectors and pins for the e67 ecu and only received a response from EFIconnection.. Sad because speartech is just up the street from me (well a town over ;-)) I guess they dont want my business so I will order from eficonnection.com. I will need to get a 4x cam sensor/wheel from them as well anyhow and figure out how I can install it on the BMW motor. The BMW motor is a 1x and if I read everything correctly the 58x ECUs use a 4x cam sensor.. Overall it should be straight forward after that I hope! I will keep you guys posted if I get it running.

Thanks to everyone in the EFILive community, you guys ROCK !!

Special thanks to JoeCar and Scarab for the guidance !

[ScarabEpic22]

I created an account with www.getoshiftlight.com but I know some people dont like the owner. He's always been helpful to me so Ill hold my tongue, but its another site that sells factory fresh E67s for good prices.

Todd, dont think you know this but 02-05 and 06-09 TB clusters are different... No idea if they'll work across this year seperation, I dont think it will be an issue but no guarantees. The difference is the gear selection area, for 02-05s its actually digital for 06-09 the PRND321 is printed on the cluster and a single LED moves between them to show which gear is selected. Side note, any cluster from a GMT360 truck will work (so if you like the GMC Envoy, Buick Rainier, Saab 9-7X, etc) cluster will work just fine. Dont use a TBSS or Saab 9-7X Aero cluster, it goes to 140mph instead of 120mph and Im not sure how you can adjust for the difference. Some people have done swaps, but I dont know what they did for the cluster.

Glad you got the coils, moving forward...good luck with the harness search. You might look for an 08-09 I6 harness out of a TB/Envoy for the PCM connectors and pins, easier to hack that up and then patch it into the BMW one. I need an 06-07 I6 harness, if anyone has one or finds one let me know!

[N0DIH]

Go to car-part.com. pcms are often very cheap there....