Connecting LC1 to V2

[LSs1Power]

I'm trying to connect the LC1 to my V2. I found the PIDs for the LC1 under F8 and added them (CAL.AFR_LC11 & LC12 in V & AFR units for both). I see them under F9, but for some reason I'm having hard time adding them in F10 layout B. How can i do this?

[LSs1Power]

Never mind... i figured it out.

[joecar]

You will get more accurate AFR/lambda if you use the serial/digital comms cable...

see TAQuickness's sig: showthread.php?8858-Tutorial-FlashScan-V2-Serial-Wideband-Logging (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?8858-Tutorial-FlashScan-V2-Serial-Wideband-Logging)

Doing it with the serial cable, the pids will be:
EXT.WO2AFR1
EXT.WO2LAM1
EXT.WO2EQR1
EXT.WO2ST1
CALC.BEN1

:)

[LSs1Power]

You will get more accurate AFR/lambda if you use the serial/digital comms cable...

see TAQuickness's sig: showthread.php?8858-Tutorial-FlashScan-V2-Serial-Wideband-Logging (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?8858-Tutorial-FlashScan-V2-Serial-Wideband-Logging)

Doing it with the serial cable, the pids will be:
EXT.WO2AFR1
EXT.WO2LAM1
EXT.WO2EQR1
EXT.WO2ST1
CALC.BEN1

:)

Thank you. I went looking for the connector to link to 2 male serial cables and i found it. I will try the pids you listed as soon as i finish installing the cam and springs.

[LSs1Power]

What is the difference between all these PIDs?

EXT.WO2AFR1
EXT.WO2LAM1
EXT.WO2EQR1
EXT.WO2ST1
CALC.BEN1

Feher
Regards,

[joecar]

WO2AFR is the wideband AFR (based on the stoichiometric AFR usually being 14.7).

WO2LAM is the wideband Lambda (is always 1 at stoich).

WO2EQR is the wideband Equivalence Ratio (is always 1 at stoich), defined to be 1/WO2LAM.

They are related as follows: AFR = 14.7 * LAM = 14.7 / EQR

Regardless of fuel used:
Stoich: LAM = 1
Richer: LAM < 1
Leaner: LAM > 1
EQR is the inverse of LAM.

Technically, the wideband measures Lambda and not AFR... so multiply Lambda by the stoich AFR of your fuel to get "measured" AFR.

Some widebands allow you to program in the stoich AFR.

[joecar]

WO2ST is the wideband state (lambda = measuring, O2 = sees free air, error = bad), gives an indication of what the wideband is doing.

[joecar]

CALC.BEN1 is the ben pid (wideband AFR divided by commanded AFR), this is the correction factor, use this in your BEN maps.

[joecar]

The GM PCM provides pids for commanded AFR (GM.AFR) and commanded EQR (GM.EQIVRATIO).

I defined my own ben pid as GM.EQIVRATIO/EXT.WO2EQR1 or GM.EQIVRATIO*EXT.WO2LAM1 to avoid multiplying by stoich AFR.

(can you see why those two are the same as each other...?)

For example:
- the LC-1 comes programmed with a stoich AFR of 14.7,
- my F-body tune file uses stoich AFR 14.63,
- someone else's Y-body uses stoich AFR 14.68,

It's easier and less error prone to avoid stoich AFR.

See CLC-00-010 in the attached file.

:)

[joecar]

If you have two widebands serially connected (daisy chained), then you will use these pids also:

EXT.WO2AFR2
EXT.WO2LAM2
EXT.WO2EQR2
EXT.WO2ST2
CALC.BEN2

[joecar]

Also see here for more info: showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2)

[LSs1Power]

WO2ST is the wideband state (lambda = measuring, O2 = sees free air, error = bad), gives an indication of what the wideband is doing.


I followed the instructions and installed the LC1 properly and calibrated it. The V2 is connected to the LC1 via the null adapter, and the V2 is connected to the E38. For some reason, the pids are not showing any activity.

How can i troubleshot the problem?

[joecar]

Is the LC-1 powered up...?
On the V2 go into the wideband display, does this show AFR/Lambda values...?
In S&T Device Settings did you enable the serial/digital pids...?

Post some log files.

[LSs1Power]

Im still trying to find the problem... I hooked the LC1 to a digital gauge and it showed readings in the 30's which means it is working, but maybe it is not calibrated properly. I thought the LC1 comes calibrated. I'm going to raise the scale in the A/F graph to 40 to see if i can see any movement. If that happens i will have to recalibrate the LC1 again i guess.

[LSs1Power]

Ok so far i checked all PIDs with serial connection and there is no activity on the scanner or the PC.

Im going to try the analog route now to see if I can get some activity to the V2 software at the least.

[LSs1Power]

Good news... the analog readout works which means that the serial way didn't work for me.

Now i have to find a way to change the reading from 0-1 and translate it to 7-22 A/F

[LSs1Power]

Good news... The analog route worked and it is showing me movement in the AD1 an average of .55 and a max reading of 1.09.

Now i need to find a way to translate that into a custom PID so i can log it properly.

Where in the v7.5 can i create a PID? Never done a custom PID before or even changes the value on one.

[joecar]

Did you use a null modem adapter...?

It has to specifically say "null modem" on it.

See post #3: showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2)

Did you enable serial wideband in the V2 setup options...?

[LSs1Power]

The adapter will allow two male serial ports to be merged. It has a sticker on stating "Mini Gender Changer" LMAO. It looks the same as pictured in the post you referenced.

Also something interesting i noticed, when i went to the setting in the V2, i only found Port instead of Com In & Com out as pictured in the "Serial Wide band Tutorial". So i choose Wide-02 and Innovative, but it did not work.

[joecar]

The adapter will allow two male serial ports to be merged. It has a sticker on stating "Mini Gender Changer" LMAO. It looks the same as pictured in the post you referenced.
...A gender adapter is not sufficient... the null modem cable cross connects the Rx and Tx pins, like this:

attachment.php?attachmentid=6739&d=1259472805 (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6739&d=1259472805)
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9340-serial-port-cable-that-goes-to-v2

[LSs1Power]

Aha... I'm assuming i have to buy it from our fellow member on this forum and I will not be able to find it in any hardware store.

[joecar]

It has to say "null modem" on it...

Or get a male-male RS232 cable and cut it in the middle so you can cross-connect Tx and Rx.

[joecar]

Aha... I'm assuming i have to buy it from our fellow member on this forum and I will not be able to find it in any hardware store.If he doesn't have cables anymore, then buy the null modem adapter from here:

http://www.sfcable.com/cable/p/30D1-C1-S.html

[LSs1Power]

I bought the null modem. Just waiting for it to arrive.

Until then, what firmware & Bootlock should i have in the V2 to ensure that this functionality works?

[LSs1Power]

At last, i just received my Null Modem. Before i go ahead and try it out, i wanted to check over one last detail which is the latest or needed Bootblock & firmware to make this work.

Now i have Bootblock version 2.06.03 & Firmware version 2.06.35.

The reason I'm asking is that under settings, i only have COM Port set to Wide-02 in my V2 while in the instructions it shows in figure 5 Com In & Com Out and both are set to Wide-02 which i don't have in my V2.

[joecar]

At last, i just received my Null Modem. Before i go ahead and try it out, i wanted to check over one last detail which is the latest or needed Bootblock & firmware to make this work.

Now i have Bootblock version 2.06.03 & Firmware version 2.06.35.

The reason I'm asking is that under settings, i only have COM Port set to Wide-02 in my V2 while in the instructions it shows in figure 5 Com In & Com Out and both are set to Wide-02 which i don't have in my V2.

You maybe should install V7 and V8 from >here< (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?13991-July-05-2010-Pre-release) and then install firmware 2.6.35 that comes with this update (the version number is the same, but the date is different).

The V2 interface has been changed since that tutorial has been written (tutorial needs update).

[LSs1Power]

What is the difference between ACProgV2_06_35.efw vs FSProgV2_06_35.efw?

I have FSProgV2_06_35.efw in my firmware now.

[ChipsByAl]

One is for FlashScan the other is for AutoCal

[LSs1Power]

Unbelievable... i tried everything to make the null modem to work. There is no activity between the LC1 and V2 through the serial connection.

The analog signal is reading properly now between 0-5v. Idle shows around 2.5 which is about right. I just need help to convert the reading to AF. Can someone help me?

[mr.prick]

Are the V2 internal settings right?
Here's mine for the LC-1, open it with the Scan&Tune.exe
8461

[joecar]

Copy mr.pricks Settings.dat (unzipped from Settings.zip) to C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\EFILive\V8\Config...

and then start the S&T software, goto F6: Device Settings,

Goto the tab F8: Serial I/O tab and check these settings:
- set Com Port to Wideband,
- set Wideband to Innovate,
- set Format to 1st or Both,
- Set Data Display to AFR and Lambda.

Goto the tab F6: BBL (Logging) and check these settings:
- set Automatically log external digital pids.

Then click Save to save to file, and then click Program to program these settings into your V2, and close S&T.

[joecar]

Then connect V2 to vehicle and to LC-1 (via serial cable with null modem adapter);

On the V2 keypad/LCD navigate Scantool->Data Logging->Display WO2...
you should now see wideband AFR and Lambda being displayed in real time.

[LSs1Power]

I did exactly as specified in your instructions with no luck. It is so frustrating.

I found the Config folder under C>ProgramData>EFILive>V8>Config
That is the only different thing i did from your instructions since my PC is not layout the same way.

I did program the V2 at the end and all the settings i set under F8 was reflected in the V2 settings.

It still says W02 not found.

[joecar]

And you have the null modem adapter installed in between the LC-1 serial cable and the V2 serial cable...?

You have V2 plugged into vehicle OBD-II port...?

You have laptop disconnected from V2...?

You have the LC-1 null terminator plug (looks like a blanked out stereo plug) plugged into the LC-1's SERIAL IN jack...?

You have the LC-1 serial cable plugged into the LC-1's SERIAL OUT jack...?

[Blacky]

If the LC-1 is transmitting serial data, and FlashScan is receiving it, then the second from the left orange LED will flash about once per second to indicate that serial data is being seen by FlashScan on the serial line. If that LED is not flashing then you should check the cables, connections, wiring and LC-1 configuration.


Regards
Paul

[LSs1Power]

And you have the null modem adapter installed in between the LC-1 serial cable and the V2 serial cable...?

You have V2 plugged into vehicle OBD-II port...?

You have laptop disconnected from V2...?

You have the LC-1 null terminator plug (looks like a blanked out stereo plug) plugged into the LC-1's SERIAL IN jack...?

You have the LC-1 serial cable plugged into the LC-1's SERIAL OUT jack...?

Yes i do have the adapter between the LC1 and V2.

Yes i did plug it in OBD-II Port while the car is running.

The laptop was not connected to the V2 at that time.

Im attaching a picture of the Null Model i got.

These two points are confusing me:
1. You have the LC-1 null terminator plug (looks like a blanked out stereo plug) plugged into the LC-1's SERIAL IN jack...?

2. You have the LC-1 serial cable plugged into the LC-1's SERIAL OUT jack...?

The LC1 have two cables (Out & In) as well as two analog signals wires.

I had the stereo plug out of the null modem connecting to OUT. I'm assuming that the signal is coming to the V2 from LC1 through the OUT LC1 plug. The other side that is connected to the null modem is going to the V2 RS232 slot.

I dont know what do you mean by connecting the LC-1 serial cable plugged into the LC-1's SERIAL OUT jack?

[LSs1Power]

Here is another photo showing the plug that i usually connect to the LC1 OUT and the other side that goes in the RS232

[Blacky]

These two points are confusing me:
1. You have the LC-1 null terminator plug (looks like a blanked out stereo plug) plugged into the LC-1's SERIAL IN jack...?
2. You have the LC-1 serial cable plugged into the LC-1's SERIAL OUT jack...?

From the LC-1 Manual:

6.2 Hooking up the LC-1 device to the computer
1. Connect the Serial OUT connection with the included 2.5mm stereo to DB-9 cable to a serial
port on your laptop.
2. Connect the terminator plug (2.5mm male plug with no cable) into the Serial IN connection of
the LC-1.

Do you have the terminator plug connected to the "IN" cable? If its not present then the LC-1 will NOT send data to FlashScan.

Regards
Paul

[LSs1Power]

From the LC-1 Manual:


Do you have the terminator plug connected to the "IN" cable? If its not present then the LC-1 will NOT send data to FlashScan.

Regards
Paul

Maybe I'm not understanding what a terminator plug looks like.
Are you saying that both IN & OUT from the LC1 should be connected at the same time, one to the Null Modem going to RS232 and the other going directly to the PC via serial-stereo 2.5mm plug?

I only have one serial to stereo 2.5mm with the kit.

[joecar]

Connect like this:

LC-1 SERIAL IN <-- 2.5mm stereo terminator dead-end plug.

LC-1 SERIAL OUT --> LC-1 serial cable --> null modem adapter --> V2 serial cable --> V2.

[Blacky]

I circled the terminator plug in red in the attached image.

Edit: Joe, your picture is much better :)

Regards
Paul

[joecar]

lol... I think I overdid my pic... :hihi:

[LSs1Power]

I love you guys :)

I can't believe that this little dead end plug is whats needed to make this work. It doesnt make sense to me, but what do i know. As soon as i plugged it, the 2nd from left orange light started blinking every second.

It is working at laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast. I drove around and the AF was perfect showing mid 12's under WOT.

Thanks a bunch for all the help. Really appreciate it.

[fotograf2]

Is this wiring right or wrong if it wrong so can you show a correct onehttp://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8466&d=1278553107

[mr.prick]

Is that a null modem or a gender bender?
A null modem is needed.

[Blacky]

I love you guys :)

I can't believe that this little dead end plug is whats needed to make this work. It doesnt make sense to me, but what do i know. As soon as i plugged it, the 2nd from left orange light started blinking every second.

It is working at laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast. I drove around and the AF was perfect showing mid 12's under WOT.

Thanks a bunch for all the help. Really appreciate it.

That little plug is detected by the LC1. As soon as it detects the plug it starts transmitting the serial wide band data. If it does not see the plug then it does not transmit the data.
I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the LC1's ability to be daisy chained with other LC1's. Each LC1 in the chain waits for the previous LC1 to transmit its data, then it appends its own data to all the previous LC1s' data.
So basically the furthest away LC1 needs to be "told" not to wait for any other previous LC1's data (since there is no further LC1 in the chain) and to just transmit its data, to which all the other LC1's will append their data as the data makes it way back to FlashScan along the chain.

If you only have 1 LC1, it doesn't know its the only one and therefor the furthest one and that it should just transmit its data and not wait for another (further away) LC1 to start transmitting. The only way to "tell" it that information is to plug the loop back dongle into its serial cable.

That's my understanding it could be wrong, the guys at Innovate would know more...

Regards
Paul

[LSs1Power]

My A/F is reading 5 AF which is not right. The Lambda is reading 1.0 around idle like before when it was reading 14.5-14.7 AF.

I re-calibrated the sensor and it is still showing 5 AF. Is there a way to diagnose the problem? I mean how can i know if the problem is the Oxygen Sensor itself or a calibration problem?

[joecar]

Did you install the latest software/firmware from here (http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=133).

V8 build 106 includes firmware 2.6.36, you have to flash this into V2.

[LSs1Power]

Yes, nothing changed from before. Everything was working fine and reading as the Dynojet AF gauge. All of the sudden it started reading off. I'm not sure if it is the Oxygen sensor being off or something else.

Is there a direct relationship between the Lambda reading and the AF? Can you convert the Lambda reading to AF mathematically?

I'm asking because the Lambda reading did not change while the AF number changed. I'm trying to diagnose the cause of the problem.

[joecar]

Direct relationships: AFR = STOICH_AFR * Lambda and EQR = 1 / Lambda

So with your LC-1 you're seeing V2 say Lambda = 1.00 and AFR = 5...?

Can you check this: with LM Programmer software check what STOICH AFR the LC-1 is programmed for.

Can you post a log file showing WO2AFR1, WO2LAM1, WO2EQR1, WO2ST1.

[LSs1Power]

Attached you will find the log file.

I will have to make another log to capture all the variables you wanted below.

My LMprogrammer doesn't work. I have never accessed the LM Software before. It was working before so I'm assuming nothing has changed there.

[joecar]

Have you tried re-installing LM Programmer...?

Sometimes the LC-1's value for STOICH AFR changes by itself, a few of us have seen this.

[joecar]

Yes, do get another log that also includes WO2EQR1 for sanity check.

[LSs1Power]

Have you tried re-installing LM Programmer...?

Sometimes the LC-1's value for STOICH AFR changes by itself, a few of us have seen this.


I will try to access the LM Programmer again.

Which end should I connect the laptop to, IN or OUT to read from the LC1 Module Right through the serial connection?

[joecar]

SERIAL IN <-- 2.5mm blank stereo plug (leave this permanently connected)

SERIAL OUT --> LC-1 serial cable --> PC/laptop (i.e. remove the null-modem adapter)

[LSs1Power]

SERIAL IN <-- 2.5mm blank stereo plug (leave this permanently connected)

SERIAL OUT --> LC-1 serial cable --> PC/laptop (i.e. remove the null-modem adapter)

It took me a while to find an adapter to to convert Serial to USB.

Here is the screen shots

[LSs1Power]

I changed the first page setting to Gasoline and it worked just fine.

I guess LC1 setting did change by itself.

Thank you

[joecar]

Yes, keep an eye on it, this is an LC-1 quirk.

[joecar]

Set the LC-1 stoichiometric AFR to the same value as your B3601.

[LSs1Power]

Set the LC-1 stoichiometric AFR to the same value as your B3601.

What do you mean? Where can i find b3601?

[joecar]

In your PCM's calibration...

Did you read your PCM and save it to .tun file...? If you do this then you can view your calibration tables.

Or, more simply, when running in closed loop, just log GM.AFR... during closed loop this will be equal to B3601.