CL, OL, OL-Drive questions

[pauly24]

Attached is a log of just a normal drive I took the other day.
Car is Holden VE SS, (stock tune)
After looking at the fuelsys PID, i realised the car is almost entirely in CL mode.

If you look at the data starting at 4160, its in OL-Drive. Then around 4300 I stab the throttle and MAP goes to 80kpa and it goes into CL.

Isn't this the exact opposite of what is suppose to happen?
Whenever it goes into OL mode its never in high load areas.
Also what is the difference between OL and OL-Drive?

[WeathermanShawn]

OL-Drive is PE Mode and also EVAP (emissions).

OL is cold open-loop (start-up).

My car does the same thing. You are in CL because you have not hit the 64% TPS Enabler for PE. All the other OL-Drive's you hit were EVAP Purge. That is what is throwing you off.

You can set up a filter using Commanded Fuel (AFR/EQ) to know when you really hit PE.

Do not worry. It took me months to figure this out. I even had a thread going for it on awhile. It may be unique to certain OS's and Year(s), but your log is accurate.

[pauly24]

So does this mean, if i drop my pe enabled to a very low setting so it kicks in on those points should it make a significant change in the power?

[WeathermanShawn]

I think I use the stock settings -10% on the TPS Enabler. There are issues with dropping it too low. Essentially then you run in OL-Drive almost constantly. That can cause issues with the the normal EVAP purge (see my OLFA thread).

Stock -10% is a good compromise..

[joecar]

Do you see the AFR pid reading correctly (I see it reading 0.50...?)...? If you see this too, then log EQIVRATIO instead.

Yeah, it looks like there isn't enough throttle to trigger PE...

if you're mashing the throttle all the way down, then check the throttle linkage/cable it's not pulling the throttle blade all the way open.

[pauly24]

Yes my AFR is showing 0.5, will log equivratio next time and see what I get.

The tune is stock, my map threshold {B0157} is set to 15kpa.

And my {B0156} are all set to 48% upto 3584. Ive reached 45% throttle on many occasions.
Actually this value isn't throttle % is it, i just read somewhere, is 45% in this setting closer to 70% on the TP pid? (I found a table someone graphed of Tune Indicated % vs E38 Actual Position %)
Am I on the right track now?

Weathermanshawn is that why you said i didn't hit 64% throttle?

Also is the car always in CL model until you enter PE mode then it goes open?

[WeathermanShawn]

Yes my AFR is showing 0.5, will log equivratio next time and see what I get.

Good idea..

The tune is stock, my map threshold {B0157} is set to 15kpa.

That works O.K. Sometimes when tuning I may set to 60kpa so I can keep Closed-Loop and PE mode in line with the VE Table (only when CLSD tune etc..)

And my {B0156} are all set to 48% upto 3584. Ive reached 45% throttle on many occasions.
Actually this value isn't throttle % is it, i just read somewhere, is 45% in this setting closer to 70% on the TP pid? (I found a table someone graphed of Tune Indicated % vs E38 Actual Position %)

Am I on the right track now?

Yes..

Weathermanshawn is that why you said i didn't hit 64% throttle?

I just looked at your Absolute Throttle Position Pid. I did not see it hit the TPS % you needed for PE Mode.

Also is the car always in CL model until you enter PE mode then it goes open?

Exactly. The FUELSYS Pids you picked are very good one to track Closed vs Open-Loop. They are very accurate.



Your on the right track. I think you just missed PE Mode my a few TPS%. Best way to make sure is just to floor it (WOT)..:grin:

[joecar]

Ah, you have E38/ETC... there's also some other ETC pids, look at those also.

[pauly24]

Once the O2s are ready, it always runs closed loop until it hits PE then runs open loop and drops straight back into closed loop once out of PE mode.

So what is the point of open loop commanded fuel in gear {B0141}? Is this table only used slightly while the O2s are warming up and then never again?

In closed loop its impossible to change the value to anything other than stoich correct?

If thats the case, can I set all the values in table B4205 to something like 140 degrees. Then the coolant must rise above this value for the O2s to kick effectively making the car run in open loop mode all the time. Then can I command any value I want in B0141 so I can make a lean cruise for the highway?

Will that work?