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Gjohnson
July 23rd, 2010, 04:45 PM
Ok, well I've picked up a Autotap cable AT1 V2 and downloaded Efilive v7.5 and I'm having issues. I have a 1997 240sx that I've swapped a L33 into with a 2001 Camaro 411 PCM. When I try to connect to the PCM the system says connected, it even will allow me to Activate functions like the MIL display, but it does not display any realtime info on the dashboard or allow me to data log.
Now, this is my first time ever using software like this so I am completely out of my element. My tuner has requested that I data log my setup so that we can try and figure out why my PCM won't let me rev past 1500 RPMS.

Can someone give me a basic tutorial on how to data log, maybe I'm missing something. All I know, is that all the recording functions at the bottom of the dashboard seem to be grayed out. It does give me a list of PIDS to choose from, but I may be getting a head of my self there.

Thanks for any help.

Oh, I'm also DBC and running a T56.

joecar
July 23rd, 2010, 08:51 PM
Hi GJ,

Is there a red record button at the bottom of the dash/chart display...?

Gjohnson
July 24th, 2010, 12:45 AM
The record button of the dash/chart display is grayed out. It won't let me select it or any other options.


Hi GJ,

Is there a red record button at the bottom of the dash/chart display...?

Gjohnson
July 24th, 2010, 01:21 AM
Here's a quick pic of what my Console screen shows.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh40/Gjohnson7771/efilive.jpg

joecar
July 24th, 2010, 07:41 AM
I notified Tech Support.

Blacky
July 24th, 2010, 08:12 AM
Do you have a valid EFILive V7 license for your AutoTap cable?
If you only have an EFILive V5 or an EFILive V6 license for your AutoTap cable, you can upgrade the older license to a new V7 license free of charge.
To upgrade, send me (paul@efilive.com) you AutoTap serial number and V5 or V6 license registration details.

Regards
Paul

Gjohnson
July 24th, 2010, 01:10 PM
Email sent! Thanks for any help!

Gjohnson
July 26th, 2010, 10:39 AM
Awesome, well I'm legal now. Apparently I had an issue with the issue date. Anyways, can someone give me a good list of PIDs to select so I can figure out what is wrong with my tune. Like I said before, I am completely clueless when it comes to tuning. Basiclly I have a 2005 L33 with a T56, I've been running a 04 GTO PCM for about 6 months with no issues, but I'm switching to 411 PCM out of a F-Body so that I will be able to hook up A/C. My tuner transfered my tune from the GTO PCM to the 411 PCM, but now the engine won't rev over 1400 RPMS. I'm running front 02 sensors, MAF, TPS, and IAC. No Evap or other emissions related sensors. Thanks for all your help guys, I really won't to get my car back on the road.

Edit: My Tuner lives in PA and I'm in OK, so I'm trying to get some info Data logged so that he can see what's going on.

joecar
July 26th, 2010, 10:55 AM
Cool...:cheers:

Try these to start with:
VSS
RPM
TP
MAP
MAF
DYNAIR
DYNCYLAIR
EQIVRATIO or AFR
IAT
ECT
LONGFT1
LONGFT2
HO2S11
HO2S21

Your tuner may ask you for some other pids.

Gjohnson
July 26th, 2010, 11:40 AM
ok, I've got a couple of logs, but can someone let me know how I can post them?

joecar
July 26th, 2010, 12:14 PM
How to attach files:


Go Advanced -> Manage Attachments -> Add Files -> Select Files

select the file(s) you want to upload, Open

Upload Files -> Done

Gjohnson
July 26th, 2010, 12:48 PM
I guess I missed some steps, I tried using the little paperclip function, but no dice. Oh well ...........86448643

The 1st log was done right after startup and I did multiple attempts to rev the engine over 1600rpms.

The 2nd log was started before the startup so you could see how high it revs on startup and then I let it rev and idle until the temps where high enough to turn the 1st fan relay on.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Gjohnson
July 28th, 2010, 01:24 PM
Anyone??? If the car was in abuse mode, wouldn't I have a MIL light or be able to see that in efi somewhere??

What would cause the car to go into abuse mode besides the VSS. The VSS should be correct, it has the same pins on GTO pcm and F-Body PCM and it worked fine with the GTO PCM for 5 months. Thanks for any help.

joecar
July 28th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Do you mean Abuse Mode as in when you try to shift the AT into drive while holding engine rpm too high...?

Or do you mean Reduced Power mode because your modified engine has exceeded the airflow/throttle sanity tests...?

What year models are each of the PCM's from...?

Gjohnson
July 28th, 2010, 02:48 PM
I meant Reduced Power mode, since I running a T56.(I guess)
My original PCM was from an 2004 GTO, my current PCM is from a 2001 Camaro.

5.7ute
July 28th, 2010, 03:15 PM
According to your log DTC's you need to do a case relearn. I dont know if that is stopping you as we dont have that over here. It is worth a try though.

5.7ute
July 28th, 2010, 03:21 PM
Also map drops as rpm increases:shock: Sure there isnt a rag stuck in the intake? Cable or ETC. Have you verified the throttle is opening?
What is your map reading key on engine off?

joecar
July 28th, 2010, 06:03 PM
I agree, MAP is acting backwards, possible restriction in intake.

TP doesn't seem to open much... when you rev it how far are you pushing down the pedal...?

With engine off, send pedal to the floor and check how much throttle blade opens, as 5.7ute said.

Also check that the exhaust isn't restricted (broken catalyst substrate).

HO2S11 (left front sensor, pre-cat) and HO2S12 (left rear sensor, post-cat) voltages indicate open circuit.

joecar
July 28th, 2010, 06:04 PM
You can remove the static pids from your pidlist the next time you log...

you can save the pidlists with different names.

Gjohnson
July 29th, 2010, 12:04 AM
Ok, well I'm heading out the door to go to work for the day, but I ran out to the garage to check the intake real quick and there are no restrictions in the intake. Took the intake off and checked the throttle blade and it's opening fine, my setup is Drive by Cable and the throttle seems to be openeing completely when pressing the pedal. Also, some of the engine revs on those logs are actually done by just turning the throttle by hand. Here is another Log with more PIDs.8660

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:13 AM
More info:
- are you running with MAF and front O2 sensors (CL/trimming)...?
- are you running with cats and rear O2 sensors...?
- what mods does the engine have...?

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:14 AM
So pedal position correlates with throttle blade position.
So intake manifold manifold and plumbing is not restricted.

Remove the front O2 sensors and try to rev the engine above 1600 rpm.

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:28 AM
Try this: hold throttle at 100% and log MAF which should increase... I want to see where the MAF levels out at.

Before logging:

Remove a bunch of pids; every 24 pid channels slows down the sample rate by 1 factor;
keep the pid channel count no greater than 24, since 1-24 channels gives the fastest sample rate;
see the bottom of the PIDs tab for pid channel count (some pids take 2 channels).

Log these pids:
VSS
RPM
TP
MAP
MAF
DYNAIR
DYNCYLAIR
EQIVRATIO or AFR (not both)
IAT
ECT
LONGFT1
LONGFT2
HO2S11 (not HO2S12 or HO2S22)
HO2S21 (not HO2S12 or HO2S22)
IBPW1
IBPW2
INJDC1 (not INJ1DC)
INJDC2 (not INJ2DC)
MFCOUNT
(that should be 24 pids channels; if not the delete MFTOTAL).

Gjohnson
July 29th, 2010, 03:27 AM
I will try some of those ideas above, when I get home this evening. I do know that there shouldn't be any restrictions at all in the manifold or plumbing. I had the setup running fine with the GTO pcm, I unplugged the battery, swapped the 02 sensor pins that needed to be swapped and grounded the 02s that needed to be grounded. Installed the new PCM and this reving issue showed up. As far as my setup is concerned. I have front 02 sensors, the rear O2 sensors have been tuned out. No Cats. I have a 4in intake with K/N filter, LS6 Cam and LS6 springs and modified C5 corvette manifolds. No other mods.

I will try the PiDs that you listed and post the log later. Although, it seems like I tried some of those PIDS on the first 2 logs I did, but they weren't recording any data. I will try again. Oh, and for some reason it seems that I can't log any info for the Long term or Short term fuel trims. Do my O2 seems to be functioning properly?

I will try to hold the throttle at 100% again and see what it does. I have tried that in some of the other logs posted but it seems like the fuel or something keeps cutting out when it hits 1600rpms.

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 07:21 AM
H02S11 in your logs was flatlined at ~450mV indicating open circuit.

HO2S21 was not in the logs so far.

If the HO2Sx1 voltages indicate a problem, then LTFT's and STFT's will be zero.


Did the PCM come from an auto trans F-body...? I wonder if the P/N rev limiter is set to 1500...?

Gjohnson
July 29th, 2010, 08:14 AM
I believe the PCM came from a manual F-Body. When I hook the PCM up to EFI live, the yellow bar at the bottom shows the vin for the F-Body and it has Manual in perenthesis.

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 08:40 AM
The scantool may show manual for an auto trans PCM.

5.7ute
July 29th, 2010, 09:33 AM
Most important IMO is to verify the map sensor hits around 100kpa key on engine off.(depending on your altitude)
To lose manifold pressure under acceleration is extremely weird & mostly caused by mechanical issues.

Gjohnson
July 29th, 2010, 10:56 AM
Ok, 2 more logs with the PIDs Joe car recommended. Keep in mind the engine isn't warmed up at all. The 1st log was done with a MAP PID that didn't show pressure, so I switched on the 2nd Log.

Also, I tried mashing the pedal with the key on and engine off, it shows the throttle % increasing, but it doesn't seem to log the MAP pressure with the engine off.


86788677

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 01:45 PM
That looks like a limiter kicking in/out.

TP only goes to 85%, where is the other 15%...?

MAP looks ok, it's is going to 99kPa which is BARO in your geography; and MAP rises as TP rises, it looks ok now.

5.7ute
July 29th, 2010, 02:02 PM
Joe, have you ever logged IBPW with a limiter active? I would have thought that you would see the IBPW drop as the limiter killed the fuel. But as you know it depends on where the pid gets it's info.
I also notice it is still after a ckp relearn.

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:03 PM
Hmmm, good point, the limiter would have cut IBPW to zero... I should have gotten GJ to log SPARKADV instead of MFCOUNT.

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:07 PM
I did notice P1336... it is registering zero misfires... I didn't think P1336 would cause it seesaw... maybe we should get him to do a CASE relearn anyway...

can the AutoTap cable do a CASE relearn...?

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:09 PM
That leaves another explanation: momentary/intermittent loss of CKP signal when engine tries to rev up... :shock:

5.7ute
July 29th, 2010, 02:12 PM
Way before my time. Plus I think the Case learn needs 4000rpm or so. (dont need it over here)

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:14 PM
GJ, can you replace MFTOTAL/MFCOUNT (however I spelled it) with SPARKADV (keep channel count to 24) and take another log at WOT.

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Way before my time. Plus I think the Case learn needs 4000rpm or so. (dont need it over here)Ah of course :doh2: silly me, lol... I've had a long day after a short night...

When you think about P1336 and misfire detection, not having CASE relearn data should not affect operation of the engine... it should only effect misfire detection...

[ ah, back to basics ]

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:19 PM
What, over there you have misfire detection disabled...?

5.7ute
July 29th, 2010, 02:19 PM
That leaves another explanation: momentary/intermittent loss of CKP signal when engine tries to rev up... :shock:
Good point.
It does appear to fluctuate in RPM for where it cuts out which would go against a tune issue. Might be worth checking all the wiring & pins into the pcm for continuity, plus making absolutely sure they are pushed all the way in. (There seems to be a lot of different issues with sensor performance)

5.7ute
July 29th, 2010, 02:21 PM
What, over there you have misfire detection disabled...?
Yep. They dont misfire in our nice clean air lol.

joecar
July 29th, 2010, 02:23 PM
lol :hihi:

Gjohnson
July 30th, 2010, 10:48 AM
Ok, well here we go. I was talking to my tuner and he wanted me to drop the GTO PCM in and data log it to make sure it wasn't a mechanical issue. The only diffrences in the pinouts are the Heated O2 sensors that have to be grounded on the F-Body PCM. So on this log the O2's are not functioning. So, here's the log. 2004 GTO PCM, no issues with reving.

8695

joecar
July 31st, 2010, 09:09 AM
With this PCM your engine revs up... so that may possibly mean the other PCM may be bad (closely inspect the pins on it's two connectors).

I say this because 5.7ute observed that IBPW was not being cut to zero which is what happens when a limiter kicks in.

joecar
July 31st, 2010, 09:14 AM
When you next log on the other PCM, replace MFTOTAL with SPARKADV.

Gjohnson
July 31st, 2010, 09:19 AM
When you next log on the other PCM, replace MFTOTAL with SPARKADV.

Will do. Also, I guess I will run my car for a while with the GTO PCM again until I can figure out what's wrong with the Fbody ones. I don't know if it's just the PCM or the tune. I have 2 Fbody PCMs and the both wont allow the car to rev over 1600RPMs. I can't remember exactly whch log it is, but the log that was showing the error code of P01336 was the 2nd F-Body PCM.

joecar
July 31st, 2010, 09:45 AM
If you have two F-body PCM's, have they been flashed with the same tune file...?

If yes then that points to the tune file, else if no then that points to the car... is ABS/TCS kicking in and requesting the PCM to limit the engine...? SPARKADV may show us something.

Gjohnson
July 31st, 2010, 09:52 AM
Well the F-Body PCMs are the only ones that limit the engine, but the tunes aren't identical. My tuner tuned both of them, but when he put my tune on the 1st Fbody PCM I received it had some how converted back to DBW, so he had to send me another PCM that saved the tune correctly and was DBC. Apparently it had something to do with the tune being based of the Corvette, because of my LS6 cam. Of course all of the Corvettes are DBW so he had to manually copy all of the tables for the tune. I will swap in the SPARKADV Pid as well as swich over the pins for my O2 sensors. 1 seems to not be functioning.

joecar
July 31st, 2010, 10:12 AM
Hmmm... it might have something to do with DBW... mayneed to copy the entire engine and engine diagnostic segments from an F-body file (non DBW).

Gjohnson
July 31st, 2010, 10:35 AM
Alright here's the log I promised. Back to the F-Body PCM and I switched the Pins on the O2 sensors to make sure both are reading. Also, swapped out the MFTOTAL for SPARKADV. Let me know what you think.


8702

joecar
July 31st, 2010, 12:47 PM
It does look like spark timing is being pulled (TP increases, but SPARKADV and rpm drop)...

Now keep SPARKADV, and log the EST_xxxx_DMA pids to see if those give a hint of why timing is being pulled.

Gjohnson
July 31st, 2010, 05:03 PM
It does look like spark timing is being pulled (TP increases, but SPARKADV and rpm drop)...

Now keep SPARKADV, and log the EST_xxxx_DMA pids to see if those give a hint of why timing is being pulled.

Can you give me alittle more direction on this? Do I just keep SPARKADV and just add all of the EST_xxxx_DMA pids or just certain ones?

joecar
July 31st, 2010, 06:29 PM
Keep the current pids (as in the log in post #49) and save these to a .pid file...

then add all of the EST_xxxx_DMA pids and save this as a new .pid file;

then take a log with this.

joecar
July 31st, 2010, 06:36 PM
See attached for how to save a pid list with a filename.

Gjohnson
August 1st, 2010, 05:51 AM
Alright guys, here's a few more logs with the EST_xxxx_DMA pids we talked about. I did remove the PID for the Cat and traction control since I don't have either. I also went ahead and took a log of these PIDs with the GTO PCM as well for comparasion. Let me know what you think, I really don't know what these values mean.


87128713

Gjohnson
August 2nd, 2010, 12:39 PM
Anyone?

5.7ute
August 2nd, 2010, 01:25 PM
It makes it hard when you dont have a tune file to verify whats going on. But IMO there must be more differences between the PCM's wiring than just the o2 sensor grounds. Hopefully Joe has a bit moreinfo on this.
Add TP & rpm to those est pid lists so we can visualise what is happening & when. Plus remove any of the EST pids that arent active to keep the channel count down.

joecar
August 2nd, 2010, 02:13 PM
It's hard to determine without a calibration file...

but look at the logs in post #54, Brake Torque Management seems to be overactive...

5.7ute
August 2nd, 2010, 02:24 PM
It's hard to determine without a calibration file...

but look at the logs in post #54, Brake Torque Management seems to be overactive...
Like a child with ADD.
Strange how one pcm has no BTM, where the other is extremely overactive. That is what has me thinking about different pins in the pcm's.

Gjohnson
August 11th, 2010, 12:43 PM
Alright, my tuner Joe was able to send one of you guys my tune file last week and from what I understand it was redone. Well I received my new PCM yesterday and was able to get it installed a few mins ago to get a quick log. Unfortunately, the engine still won't rev over 1600 RPMs, but take a look. Thanks

8755

5.7ute
August 11th, 2010, 01:14 PM
That was me. What I did was a segment swap of the manual trans into your 5.3 tune. We may have been better off going the other way & putting the 5.3 engine segment into the other tune. If Joe has no issues I could post your tune up here in Efilive format so Joecar etc can have a look. Let me know if its OK.
Mick

joecar
August 11th, 2010, 03:07 PM
He sent it to me by email, but I was out of town with my Mrs...

If Joe doesn't mind, it's ok to post here, many eyes can look at it, and you will get constructive comments.

:)

Gjohnson
August 12th, 2010, 08:13 AM
I just got off the phone with Joe a couple of mins ago and he doesn't mind if you post the tune here. Thanks for everyones input on the this.

joecar
August 12th, 2010, 08:19 AM
Mick, can you post it, I won't be home till late tonite (my other PC). :)

5.7ute
August 12th, 2010, 09:26 AM
Here it is.

joecar
August 12th, 2010, 01:08 PM
Try setting these tables as follows:

{B1201} 2000 rpm
{B1202} 1500 rpm
{B1203} 2000 rpm
{B1204} 1500 rpm
{B1205} 5.000000 %
{B1206} 3.007813 %
{B1207} 255.0 mph (this is already set to this value).
{B1208} 1.200195 EQR (set your tunetool to display in EQR, close/reopen tunetool).

joecar
August 12th, 2010, 01:14 PM
If that doesn't work, then set B1207 to zero.

Gjohnson
August 12th, 2010, 01:20 PM
Well, I guess I will pass this info on to Joe. From what I understand the EFI registration that I have will only allow me to use the scan tool, so he will have to tune another PCM and send it out to me unless I'm missing something.

joecar
August 12th, 2010, 01:45 PM
You have the AutoTap cable, that won't allow you to flash.

You should be able to edit the tune file...

If you open the tune file in post #64 and look at G1201, G1202 edit: sorry, I meant B1201, B1203 you will see they are 1600 rpm... abuse management might be what is happening... AM kicks in when trying to shift an auto trans into gear (R or D) while rpms are too high... so I don't know why AM is kicking in... might have to do with trans segment being for an auto trans...

If setting those tables to those values stops the problem, then that means the trans segment still thinks it's for an auto trans.

poconojoe
August 12th, 2010, 01:57 PM
Well, I guess I will pass this info on to Joe. From what I understand the EFI registration that I have will only allow me to use the scan tool, so he will have to tune another PCM and send it out to me unless I'm missing something.

OK, i'll do another one over the weekeend and send it to you

5.7ute
August 12th, 2010, 02:01 PM
Joe, I did a trans segment swap on the file I sent to the other Joe. If that is the case we may be better off doing an engine segment swap to the m6 tune.
i am a bit concerned that it still wants a case relearn. Could this set a default to the abuse settings?

joecar
August 12th, 2010, 02:05 PM
I agree, it might be a good idea to keep the M6 file and swap the engine segment into it (there's some things in there that aren't accessible).

The CASE relearn should not be a problem, it only primes the misfire detection algorithm... we should be able to do a CASE relearn on it.

5.7ute
August 12th, 2010, 02:17 PM
Poconojoe, I will do the segment swap tonight when I get home & send it through.

poconojoe
August 12th, 2010, 09:07 PM
Poconojoe, I will do the segment swap tonight when I get home & send it through.

Thanks, I think i'll send another PCM along with a stock LS1 M6 tune in to see if its an issue other then the tune, I know it will run a 5.3 only its starts off a little rich until it hoes to cloed loop. Just to make sure its not a harness issue. Since I use flat rate boxes it cost the same to ship 2 as 1, since they'll both fit in the box
Even in his latest log doesn't it seem to you like the O2's aren't very active"

joecar
August 13th, 2010, 02:56 AM
Yes, in Log_0012.efi (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8755&d=1281577179) the O2 voltages are flat at 420-450mV, might be worth checking their wiring... trying another PCM is a good idea too.

poconojoe
August 13th, 2010, 05:48 AM
Yes, in Log_0012.efi (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8755&d=1281577179) the O2 voltages are flat at 420-450mV, might be worth checking their wiring... trying another PCM is a good idea too.

Each new tune I send Grant is in a new PCM, since I figure it will be cheaper for him to send all the PCM's back at one time and normally I have a half dozen or so laying around, so I can spare them

joecar
August 13th, 2010, 06:09 AM
So then the problem wouldn't be the PCM... more likely to be in the O2 sub-harness.

poconojoe
August 13th, 2010, 06:33 AM
So then the problem wouldn't be the PCM... more likely to be in the O2 sub-harness.

I'm pretty sure Grant said he double checked the wiring
When switching from the 6243 PCM (2004 GTO) to the 411 (2002 F-body) you need to remove the return wires from the heaters that go to the PCM and ground them, since the 6243 controls the heaters on the O2 sensors and the 411 doesn't. Grant did make that change, so they should be correct. I'm sure he'll chime in
By the way, I want to thank you guys for all the help

Gjohnson
August 13th, 2010, 07:16 AM
Well, I will double check the wiring tonight. I checked the wiring on the PCM connectors and removed the heater controls Joe is talking about. I also, removed my O2 sensors and took them down to the local auto parts store and had the warrantied out, but I haven't fully inspected the wiring from end to end, so thats on the agenda.

5.7ute
August 13th, 2010, 09:56 AM
Tune file sent.

Doc
August 17th, 2010, 01:33 PM
Just to be on the same page...240 with aluminum 5.3 with cable driven throttlebody. Worked fine on the 1MB 04 GTO pcm. The switch to the 411 was for a/c??? Really dumb question- 04 GTO's had a/c. I'd really like to help.

DPS
August 17th, 2010, 01:51 PM
That's funny, I just posted a similar question on LS1Tech where he started a thread.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/1311044-help-my-tune-check-out-logs.html

Nevermind, I see the dislexic Doc has already been there! :)

poconojoe
August 17th, 2010, 02:00 PM
Just to be on the same page...240 with aluminum 5.3 with cable driven throttlebody. Worked fine on the 1MB 04 GTO pcm. The switch to the 411 was for a/c??? Really dumb question- 04 GTO's had a/c. I'd really like to help.

Gto use the BCM instead of the PCM for the low speed fan function and the AC request.
It seems like the only 6243 (same as the gto) PCM the uses the PCM for the fan and AC request is the OS for the 2004 Corvette and its DBW not DBC

DPS
August 17th, 2010, 02:24 PM
What would it take to run a BCM with the 6243 PCM? Are there any junkyards close by?

:nixweiss: Just throwing it out there.

poconojoe
August 17th, 2010, 02:34 PM
What would it take to run a BCM with the 6243 PCM? Are there any junkyards close by?

:nixweiss: Just throwing it out there.

Grant has the correct BCM but now you're adding a bunch more wiring. By the way it can't just be any BCM it has to be one from a GTO

Doc
August 17th, 2010, 02:42 PM
You get a gold star! why pay when you can run diarreah of the mouth for free?!? F/A-18 hornets are so much simpler-just government jackass engineers vs. third party engineers who all want to short change the program! Easy to spot the frauds unlike the mods/management on LS1tech.

Gjohnson
August 18th, 2010, 01:00 PM
Ok, here's another log. Still working with the old F-Body PCM just trying to see what is going on the the O2 sensors. Checked both sensors for grounds and power, as well as continuity throughout the high and low signal wires. Everything checked out great, but still no readings.

8807

joecar
August 18th, 2010, 02:00 PM
Do you have the NBO2 heater ground connected to vehicle ground...?

Do you have the NBO2 signal return connected to the PCM NBO signal return...?

poconojoe
August 18th, 2010, 04:11 PM
Do you have the NBO2 heater ground connected to vehicle ground...?

Do you have the NBO2 signal return connected to the PCM NBO signal return...?

I went over this with him and yes he has the O2 heater returns grounded and the returns run back to the PCM, I had him check the continuity of the O2 wires and it seems to check out. The low side of the signal wire isn't grounded, but he's running grounded (non-isollated) O2 sensors, so they should be suppling the ground

joecar
August 18th, 2010, 05:29 PM
It's pretty strange, his NBO2 voltages are just floating at around 450mV... :nixweiss:

poconojoe
August 19th, 2010, 12:13 PM
It's pretty strange, his NBO2 voltages are just floating at around 450mV... :nixweiss:

I told him to try logging without them hooked and see what it says, even though he's running non-isolated (grounded) O2's, I wonder if they would work better with the low side grounded, I'm just worried you might end up with a ground loop
The other 2 PCM's are on there way

joecar
August 19th, 2010, 12:30 PM
Can he get a pair of isolated O2's to try with...?

I would try to avoid any ground loop with the PCM, I remember the PCM tries to pull the NBO2 return upto 4V... I don't think he should short this to ground.

Get him to measure the voltage on the NBO2 return pin at the harness using a DMM... if it's close to 0V then can try grounding it and observe HO2S voltage on scantool.

poconojoe
August 19th, 2010, 05:45 PM
Can he get a pair of isolated O2's to try with...?

I would try to avoid any ground loop with the PCM, I remember the PCM tries to pull the NBO2 return upto 4V... I don't think he should short this to ground.

Get him to measure the voltage on the NBO2 return pin at the harness using a DMM... if it's close to 0V then can try grounding it and observe HO2S voltage on scantool.

I can't see grounding the low side pin causing any issue in the PCM, since the non-isolated O2 sensors ground it internally anyway and if you run isolated O2's, the harness grounds it. I just know from doing control wirng, ground loops can cause issues. The worst that going to happen is he's going to fry one of my PCM's. I could aleays use another paperweight on my desk

joecar
August 19th, 2010, 07:38 PM
Yes, I would avoid a ground loop.

Gjohnson
August 23rd, 2010, 12:02 PM
Alright, well it looks like I'm back in business. I just made a nice long data log for you guys to enjoy. I let the engine rev til it got to my fan temps, but it seems I'm still not showing any promising data from the O2 sensors. Let me know what you think.

Oh, and thanks again to poconojoe, 5.7ute and joecar as well as others for all your help. 5.7ute it looks like your tune did the trick.

8858

5.7ute
August 23rd, 2010, 12:18 PM
Glad to see it's finally getting over 1600 rpm. I am not sure if it was the segment swap, or the changes to AM etc that poconojoe did that sorted it, but at least there is one less issue now.
O2 sensors are still only showing reference voltage. I will have to leave that to the experts.

joecar
August 23rd, 2010, 12:21 PM
Cool, good job :cheers: it revs up now, must have been AM kicking in, for some reason the PCM thought it was an AT segment.

Hmmmm... maybe you should try some isolated O2 sensors... don't ground their NBO2 return wire, connect it to the PCM NBO2 return (via the connector).

Gjohnson
August 27th, 2010, 11:48 AM
Wooo Hooo!!! Well, it looks like grounding the low signal does the trick. Here's a new log sitting at idle and letting the engine warm up and go into closed loop. Hopefully tomorrow I can find some time to take the car for a spin and data log without my 3 kids.

Let me know what you think.

8892

Oh, and another quick question. I see that one of the pids available on the program is for Horsepower at the wheels. My question is how close is that estimate to the dyno runs you guys have had?

joecar
August 27th, 2010, 09:34 PM
You grounded the lo signal to the PCM... the log shows NBO2 activity and the LTFT's are working, cool, good job :cheers:


CALC.RWHP:
You have to enter your vehicle's total mass (File->Enter VIN).
See this: Accuracy-of-efilive-s-dashboard-dyno (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14209-Accuracy-of-efilive-s-dashboard-dyno)

poconojoe
August 28th, 2010, 08:05 AM
You grounded the lo signal to the PCM... the log shows NBO2 activity and the LTFT's are working, cool, good job :cheers:


CALC.RWHP:
You have to enter your vehicle's total mass (File->Enter VIN).
See this: Accuracy-of-efilive-s-dashboard-dyno (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14209-Accuracy-of-efilive-s-dashboard-dyno)

It looks like even though his O2's were listed for non-isolated (Grounded) applications, they we'ren't internally grounded. I see why guys hate the bosch sensors. This might explain, why he didn't get the milage he should have, since it never went in to closed loop

Thanks for all you guys help with this, now he can do some logged driving and see where his tune needs to go. I'm sure he'll post some up and ask for your input

Gjohnson
February 26th, 2011, 12:24 PM
Alright, I know it's been a while, but I've finally got the car back together from bodywork and paint and I'm still working on the tune. I've been talking with my tuner and he says he can let me borrow his roadrunner PCM and the cables necessary for tuning, if I can find someone to help me setup a file for auto ve tuning. Can someone help me out with this? Right now my fuel tables seem to be off pretty bad. Thanks

Gjohnson
February 26th, 2011, 12:47 PM
Oh, and for those who may care. Here a few pics of the ride I took the other rayon my lunch break. Sorry for the iPhone pics.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh40/Gjohnson7771/IMG_0022.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh40/Gjohnson7771/IMG_0023.jpg