Anyway to fool 411 PCM into thinking its connected to 4L60E for TCC operation?

[slow89irocz]

I did a 411 PCM swap in an 89 camaro and I want to use the PCM to control the TCC on a 700R4. I have the TCC enable soleoid wire (pin 42) wired to the TCC lockup solenoid. I can command it to lock through the DVT page in the scanner but it wont lock by itself....anyhelp?

[slow89irocz]

monitoring tstate9 says that the tcc is not locked due to cold transmission and due to range.

[slow89irocz]

Can I put a resistor between pins on the ecm for the temp sensor...but what is the range error?

[joecar]

Yes, you can place a ressistor, look at this table: 8620

You may be able to place an engine ECT sensor someplace on the trans and use that (the ECT seems to have the same temperature-vs-resistance transfer function as the TFT sensor).

[slow89irocz]

Joe I still get the tcc off due to range..what is this? I placed a resistor and the tcc off due to temp is off now..

[slow89irocz]

I believe it has to due with pins c1-32, c1-34, c1-72, c2-62. In the harness 32 and 34 are connected to my shift lever switch which grounds them in park/neutral. What is needed for pins 72 and 62?

[joecar]

Do you provide a VSS signal to the PCM...?

[joecar]

You maybe do need:
- P/N Position switch input (C1-34),
- TCC Brake switch position input (C1-33),
- Manual Valve Pressure switch input (C1-17,18, C2-63).

In my schematic, C1-32 is Clutch Pedal Position (i.e. manual trans)...?

[joecar]

I don't see c1-72, c2-62...

what vehicle/year/model schematic/harness are you using...?

[joecar]

Joe I still get the tcc off due to range..what is this? I placed a resistor and the tcc off due to temp is off now..The word range refers to the range indicated by the manual valve position pressure switches (3 or 4 switches depended on car/truck application).

[slow89irocz]

I have the p/n position input being grounded by my shift lever switch and PID PRND shows P and D4 when selected. Also TCC brake is connected and shows depressed and released with the brake pedal. C1-72 anD C2-62 are shown on my drawing as gong to the PRND switch? Manual valve pressure switch are unconnected but the gear PID show trans in 2nd so I modded the tables for a 2nd gear lockup....?

[joecar]

See post #12: 4L60E-Reference-Material (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?4304-4L60E-Reference-Material)

The 700R4 may should have pressure switches for 3rd and 4th... if you combine logic for these and the 1-2 and 2-3 solenoid signals you might be able to provide signals for the manual valve pressure switches.

[slow89irocz]

Ok I was thinking it was the gear selector input that was refered to as range. How do I fool the PCM into thinking it is hooked to the manual valve presure switches? Can I ground on pin and it will thnk its in 4th gear?

[slow89irocz]

I do have a 4th gear switch that is already routed to the tcc connector on the trans. can I feed this into the PCM? what combo of pins need to see ground to indicate 4th?

[joecar]

I have the p/n position input being grounded by my shift lever switch and PID PRND shows P and D4 when selected. Also TCC brake is connected and shows depressed and released with the brake pedal. C1-72 anD C2-62 are shown on my drawing as gong to the PRND switch? Manual valve pressure switch are unconnected but the gear PID show trans in 2nd so I modded the tables for a 2nd gear lockup....?The P/N position input can be seen in the pid TSTATE00.

The pid PRND shows the switch states from the manual valve pressure switches... when you select Drive, the pid PRND shows D4 because this is what the NRP pins default to (N=off, R=on, P=off -> D4 since the D2 and D3 switches are N.C. while the others are N.O.)

[slow89irocz]

Also is there a patch for the tuning software that can add the tcc lockup temperature tables so I can get rid of the resistor?

[slow89irocz]

ok i am really getting confused here....

[joecar]

Ok I was thinking it was the gear selector input that was refered to as range. How do I fool the PCM into thinking it is hooked to the manual valve presure switches? Can I ground on pin and it will thnk its in 4th gear?You can try it, but the PCM may then throw range error DTC's in 1st, 2nd, 3rd.


I do have a 4th gear switch that is already routed to the tcc connector on the trans. can I feed this into the PCM? what combo of pins need to see ground to indicate 4th?Give me a few minutes...

[joecar]

Also is there a patch for the tuning software that can add the tcc lockup temperature tables so I can get rid of the resistor?No patch... and the TCC temperature tables are undiscovered.

[slow89irocz]

ok thanks for checking on the patch..

[joecar]

I'll have to figure out some logic offline... I'll get back to you later.

[slow89irocz]

ok thanks

[slow89irocz]

I tried grounding pins N P R on the trans connector and with nothing grounded it says gear 2 and tcc off due to range is yes. Grounding any other combo only yeild a gear 3 and a tcc off due to downshift is yes but tcc off due to range is no.

[joecar]

You want pins R (C2-17) and P (C2-18) both grounded when in D.

See: Manual Valve Logic (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?4304-4L60E-Reference-Material&p=50372&viewfull=1#post50372) and 8625.

This is the opposite to the P/N switch; you can use a relay to obtain an inverted signal from the P/N switch to feed to R and P.

This is the opposite to the P/N switch; you can use a relay to obtain an inverted signal from the P/N switch to feed to R and P.

[slow89irocz]

could the tcc off due to downshift be yes since i am testing with the car not mving...vss=0?

[joecar]

Try grounding just pins R (C2-17) and P (C2-18)... this makes the PCM see that manual valve is in D4 position.

Leave pin N (C2-63) un-grounded.

[joecar]

could the tcc off due to downshift be yes since i am testing with the car not mving...vss=0?Possibly.

[joecar]

Try grounding just pins R (C2-17) and P (C2-18)...

Leave pin N (C2-63) un-grounded.Try this, and go for a test drive...

could put car on jackstands and test drive it like this, but keep the speed below 55-60 mph

(unloaded tire can accelerate up to high speed too quick and explode, I'm sure you know the usual warnings).

[slow89irocz]

Went for a test drive. As soon as I stat moving all the Tstate09 flags go to NO but the gear PID changes from 3 to 1 so its thinks I am stuck in 1st? No lockup.

[slow89irocz]

Looking at trouble code P1810 which is a valve switch malfunction. It will assume D4 and enable the TCC lockup inn commanded 4th gear? I will turn on P1810 process enablers and see what happens....

[joecar]

You can try playing with the P1810 processing enabler, see if that makes any difference...

The manual says the PCM will command a D4 shift pattern, but it doesn't say if it will apply the TCC.

If you can somehow rig up N,R,P signals from the manual lever position, then it would work properly:

8635

[joecar]

You could do something simpler:

let the 4th gear pressure switch apply the TCC... i.e. the standard 700R4 circuit of 4th gear switch (NO) in series with brake switch (NC);

you could then run with a manual trans segment in your PCM.

[slow89irocz]

I tried to use the 4th gear switch but it locks too soon really lugs the engine. 3200rpm stall converter. Thats why I want to get the PCM involved so I can control the mph it locks at.

[joecar]

Ok, I see.

Have you tried this:

Try grounding just pins R (C2-17) and P (C2-18)... and leave pin N (C2-63) un-grounded.

[slow89irocz]

Yep when I took it for a test drive last night I had pins R and P grounded and a 660ohm resistor for the temp sensor. All the TSTATE09 bits were no. However it was strange that the GEAR PID went from being 3 in park to 1 when I started moving. Once again no lockup......

[joecar]

The PCM might not be happy that there are no shift solenoids.

[slow89irocz]

I am going to make a connector that will allow me to put a resistor in place to simulate the solenoids. From pins E to T, E to S, and E to A I will use a 22ohm resistor. From Pins E to U and E to B I will use a 10ohm. from pins L to M I will use a 680ohm. From pins D to C I will use a 5ohm resistor. I will ground pins R and P. Do these resistor values look correct?