3000 RPM max and setting codes 03 Z06 with Magnuson at 150kPa

[TurboCamaro]

I have some of this posted attached to a thread I started for SD Tune on the General Section. Hopefully I am not being a pain by posting here as well. I am thinking maybe some viewers in this section with similar experience.

I am tuning an 03 Z06 with a Magnuson that is overdriven to provide 10-12 lbs boost. The compression has been dropped a bit with 8cc dish pistons, a Comp blower cam has been installed, 2 Bar Map has been installed and scaled plus 60lb injectors have been installed and calibrated with injector.xls found elsewhere on this forum. I have installed CO3 and have done 1 pass at Steady State SD Tune at 85kPa and under. I went to do a sweep on my Dyno Dynamics and the motor will not rev past 3000RPM. It set codes P1514, C1221, C1222, C1248 and C1278. Also it set P0103 but I am having this set so I know that the MAF is off.

By maxing the top of C6101 I managed to have P1514 and C1278 not set but it still will not rev past 3000 as per the attached scan and tune files.

I did a test doing a sweep run while keep partial throttle to see if it was upper "power" level throwing the codes and it will successfully do a sweep as long as it is partial throttle at or just over atmospheric. As soon as you get some boost into it it throughs the codes and pulls the RPM back. It is hard to tell where the boost level is that causes this.

Next I scaled the VE Table, Boost VE Table and Injector Table by -20%. This allowed the engine to now RPM to 3800RPM.

What am I missing? I am hesitant to scale the VE and Injector tables further.

Thanks:help2:

My apologies for being redundant here and a being pain in the tail.

[slows10]

Did you notice your ign timing at full throttle? This is my first time reading a log. what does that timing do at wfo?

[TurboCamaro]

The ignition timing is at a safe value.

The car is actually turning the ABS on. It is applying full brakes. I dropped VE and Injector Tables by another 20points and did another test. This time I did it with steady state using speed control so I could watch the MAP. As soon as it hits 150kPa it turns ABS on and sets the brakes. Once the dyno coasts to a stop (yes this seems strange if the brakes are setting) if you pull the clutch out and try to roll the tires it is just like the park brake is set. Clear the codes and ABS turns off (says ABS Active on the dash) and the car will accelerate and RPM to 200kPa as long as you don't go to 150kPa boost.

I am perplexed.

[slows10]

Its safe allright, lol. Doesnt it look like it went below 0 degrees. The engine will never rev with ign retard that bad. I could be wrong.

[slows10]

You probably should not run untill you fix the abs. I guess you are probably puttin quite a load on the engine and maybe thats why the timing is being pulled back.

[TurboCamaro]

I put a bit of timing in it thinking that was part of it and to ensure to much heat wasn't being created.

The ABS has me stumped.

[5.7ute]

It is not unusual to get an ABS warning light on the dyno, the brake thing has me stumped though. Have you tried pulling the ABS fuse? When logging airflow in G/SEC is it hitting the PCM's limit?

[TurboCamaro]

Hi 5.7ute

Airflow is logged. I do not believe it is going above the limit, the max it sees is 2.11.

I didn't pull the fuse but I did unhook the ABS module and it set codes P1571 and U1040. The car still hits a wall at ~150kPa and won't RPM past 3000RPM.

[5.7ute]

Airflow is only hitting 411 G/SEC so that limit isn't being hit in the posted log.(P1514 isnt setting either which is good) I would have to be a broken record here & say get some fuel out of it under boost & add some timing. Once you get her boosting correctly though I think some more scaling may be necessary.
Check your plug gaps too.

[TurboCamaro]

Thanks.

It totally makes sense that I am in left field on the timing and fuel. What I am struggling with is why the brakes come on and the codes get set.

[5.7ute]

I know what you mean. I dont know enough about US cars to help you there. Is that a cable or electronic TB?

[5.7ute]

Also, have you made sure traction control is turned off.

[TurboCamaro]

I did change the timing a bit after the log and tune file that I posted. See new files attached. The A/F is rich 11.94 but not rich enough to do any more than foul the plugs and blow black smoke. At that A/F it may not be in the window for best power but it will work for where I am at with the car. Now the timing. I pulled all the boost timing reduction out of the Boost Timing Table (all 0's) and the Main Spark Table is 12/14 Deg but the logged Spark is under 5 Deg as long as the engine is at WOT. Something is pulling timing in a big way!

For wideband I am using an Innovate LM-1 connected serial with EFI Live and am verifying with the Autronic on my Dyno Dynamics dyno.

The TB is electronic on this car.

I am puzzled by the whole scaling injector and VE tables if this is what you mean by scaling in one of your earlier posts. Why all the buzz about injector calibrating, etc. And where is the line that you need to start scaling these tables.86338634

[5.7ute]

There are a few tables pulling timing. It is best to just do a pull on the dyno with the spark EST pids logged to see where the culprits are. Make sure you log burst knock, torque reduction, traction control retard etc. (keeping your channels under 24)
Scaling is necessary once airflow exceeds 512 G/SEC as this is a hard limit in the PCM. The only way around this is to scale the injectors, ve table & maf table(if still using the maf) Then there is all the tables that rely on the airflow/airmass calculations that need addressing as well.
Also you need to fix the out of range values A0001 & 2. set these to 99.Save & close the file. reopen the file, change back to 100 & save again.

[joecar]

Would setting B6607,8 to zero help...?

It seems that traction control is going into extreme mode and causing brakes to be applied.

[slows10]

IAT vs spark table might be worth a look.

[joecar]

...
Also you need to fix the out of range values A0001 & 2. set these to 99.Save & close the file. reopen the file, change back to 100 & save again.
Also tables A0012 and A0013, the blue dogear corners mean they are out-of-range (OOR).

Do exactly what 5.7ute said before continuing: set all OOR cells to 99, save file, exit program, restart program, set to all those cells to 100, save file.

[ the tunetool displays the closer of min or max value when a cell is OOR;
the tunetool saves a file only if there are changes, and it bases this on the displayed values;
so if the cell is OOR and you enter min or max, then the tunetool sees no change, so it does not save the change;
so you have to follow that specific sequence to correct OOR cells. ]

[TurboCamaro]

Thanks guys!

This is a fun one!

Yes, I ensure Traction Control is off. I have specifically been watching the dash and it seems as though when you press the Traction Control Button it will turn off and on however when it hits 150kPa during a run it turns it back on.

Looking through the EST PIDS I see an EST - Brake Torque Management Spark Retard {EST_BTM_DMA} what drives this? Is there literature that explains what PID is affected by which table(s).

What specific PID's would you suggest logging?

When you reach the air flow max should you scale the entire VE, Air and Injector Tables or is it OK to scale from just under where the max was reached and beyond. This way if you had some tuning done down low you don't have to redo. For example I had done a first pass on the lower part of the Main VE Table such that they were within 3% or so it would be nice not to lose that.

Makes sense on the OOR. On the second post I have reduced any OOR variables by 1 to eliminate the OOR error. Now will turn these all back to max values.

[5.7ute]

You must rescale the whole table.
Since you are scaling both IFR & cylinder airmass estimation(VE) by the same amount, you should not need to readdress areas already tuned in the VE table since the final pulsewidth calculation will be the same.
What you do need to be careful of however is that torque estimation, which is calculated from cylinder airmass will be affected. As will any table that uses cylinder airmass or airflow on its axis. eg Timing tables.

[limited cv8r]

from what I can see from a quick glance at 3000 rpm your commanded AFR may be 11.94, but your WO2AFR is showing 9.46. A lot richer than you are assuming you are running. Spark wise,depending which spark table you are running off (high or low) you are only commanding 12*-13* of spark, then you have KR -1.8*, Burst knock -4.5*, IAT spark -4*, boost timing table -13* to -15* ending up with a final spark of around -9.5* as shown in your log. just my 2 cents.

[slows10]

Just for my own curiousity, Did you notice if the exhaust manifolds or headers started glowing at all? Or any evidence you thought they got really hot? Thanks

[johnv]

look at B0401, B0402 brake torque management.

[TurboCamaro]

Thanks all!
Successfully completed the tune.
Attached are pics of the car.

There is still one thing that puzzles me. Every once in a while after a flash the scanner would stop at 105kPa even though I was going into boost. I typically "backed" up and reflashed solving the issue. The only thing I can think is that the 105kPa values in the standard VE table {B0101} must match those of the boost table {A0009}. Is this the case?

The other item I found, thanks JoeCar, ensure you set a MIL so you know the MAF has failed.


89168917

[izaks]

You need to fix A0010. The values are SUBTRACTED from final timing, that is why you end up with negative timing.

[TurboCamaro]

Thanks IZAKS
The timing is actually working properly.
The only challenge I have had is that at times the scanner only shows 105kPa even though the car is going into boost.
I was just trying to confirm my thoughts that what is causing this is the B0101 105KPa column and A0009 105kPa column not being exactly the same.

The A0010 boost timing table works awesome! Hands off to the developers!

[ScarabEpic22]

Yes, the 105kPa columns must be IDENTICAL in both the Normal VE and Boost VE tables otherwise weird anomalies like this might (and apparently do) happen.

[joecar]

Thanks IZAKS
The timing is actually working properly.
The only challenge I have had is that at times the scanner only shows 105kPa even though the car is going into boost.
I was just trying to confirm my thoughts that what is causing this is the B0101 105KPa column and A0009 105kPa column not being exactly the same.

The A0010 boost timing table works awesome! Hands off to the developers!Can you post screen shots of:
- scantool Data tab,
- scantool Dash tab showing chart.