PCM Conversion Information

[turbo_bu]

I have noticed that for most conversions posted on this forum, it is simply a matter of how to make an existing system stand alone. Or how to make an ECM talk to the TCM. I would like to put together a basic list of what it takes to make a PCM (or ECM) work on what ever engine you are trying to get to run.

The reason behind such a list (or if one already exists ????) is to help the DIY guy understand the basic things that are needed. Like - for a 0411 swap, you need to have a 24X crank timing sensor and a 1X cam sensor. I know that EFI Connections has a wealth of information and parts to assist as well, but just a basic list might help inspire others to try and make something work.

Example of info that might be helpful to document for DIY conversion:
PCM type - LS1, E40, etc...
Crank signal - 24X, 58X, etc...
Cam signal - 1X, 4X, etc...
Anything quirky or special about the system - Supports DOD, ????
Other items that would prevent you from making it run - ????

Maybe a side part of this could be which autos are also supported (for PCM OS's)

[turbo_bu]

Here's an initial hack of the type of information that I thought might be useful.

Please send me any additions or corrections and I will update. I realized that this is only a small part of a conversion, but it might help to get people started.




UPDATED - 13 Jan 2014: Updated showing the latest file with updated information in it (saves having to scroll to the end of the post :) )

[ChipsByAl]

I would separate the LS1a and LS1b PCM's. The 97-98 LS1a PCM does not have any COS available from EFI_Live. I don't have the list but there are several other part numbers available for the above PCM's.
Al

[turbo_bu]

Thanks for the reply. I will seperate the LS1A's and put a note about the COS's and converting to a LS1B. That appears to be what almost everyone does anyway.

Anyone happen to have the details on the crank / cam pickup info?

[joecar]

So all the 24x CKP had 1x CMP, and all the 58x CKP had 4x CMP, no crossovers, right...?

[Taz]

Hello turbo_bu,

I took a quick look at the attached PDF file – the beginnings of a nice chart !

A couple of things ….

There is a note in your chart that states: “Most any OS can be flashed to a standard 0411 PCM”. While the 12200411 PCM is often considered a “universal donor” of sorts, it has a 512 Kb memory – compatible with most 1999 to 2002 OEM tunes. The only exception I can think of is the OEM 2003 Corvette tune – which was essentially a carry over from 2002 – and is under 512 Kb.

Also, the 2001 & 2002 Savana / Express vans used an LS1-B style PCM (not a black box Vortec style PCM) with the 5.0L and 5.7L Vortec (Gen I based) engines. Many of these were the 12200411 PCM - which is very helpful in retrofitting the “0411” PCM into older applications.

Regarding your request for quirks / anything special about various systems …

The 1996 model year was the first for the black box Vortec PCM …. in V6 S10 applications the ABS control system was in the PCM – in the 1997 and later S10s, the ABS control system was a standalone unit.

I’m not sure if this is also true for the V8 platforms in these years - most of my experience with 1996 to 2000 Vortec engines / PCMs is their removal to make way for a Gen III installation.


Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

I was typing when you posted Joecar …..

All Gen III V8s are 24x CKP and 1x CMP. All Gen IV V8s are 58x CKP and 4x CMP.

Early LS2 engines (2005 Corvette, and 2005 & 2006 GTO) are actually Gen III’s – believe the CMP sensor was moved to the front timing cover. I believe these used the E40 PCM ….


Regards,
Taz

[joecar]

So, the early LS2/E40 (2005 Corvette, 2005-6 GTO) had 24x CKP and 1x CMP (with the CMP on the sprocket)...?

[Taz]

Yes .... Gen III CMP mounted at the back of block (took signal from a reluctor on the camshaft itself) ... early LS2 moved CMP sensor to the front of the block in the front cover (like later Gen IV) and took signal from the cam sprocket.

The existence of 1x and 4x cam sprockets makes running a Gen IV engine with a Gen III PCM a little bit easier ... still have to change the crank reluctor (or the entire crankshaft / reluctor as a unit) .... and adjust the the knock sensor tables to work with the LS2 "flat response" type knock sensors ...

The early LS2's (2005 Corvette, etc.) have a 24x CKP and a 1x CMP in place - making the swap to a Gen III PCM a little easier.

Regards,
Taz

[ScarabEpic22]

Yes, 05-06 LS2s used the E40 ECM which is a 24x crank reluctor (and Im going to assume a 1x cam sensor like you're both saying). Except the 06 Vette, it used the E38 with 58x and 4x, everything else switched to the E38 or E67 for 07. The E40 was a temp stopgap to run LS2s, GM should have just gone to the E38/E67 but something must have prevented them from doing so.

[turbo_bu]

Thank you all for the feedback - here's a copy of Revision 1.

Please keep posting your additions or corrections.

Thanks!

[joecar]

Good deal :cheers:

Review comments:
- might be easier to read if you split LS1A and LS1B(512K) into their own box rows.
- LS1B(1M) and E37 have blanks for ckp/cmp.
- should the early E40 have 24x/1x...?

[Taz]

Hello turbo_bu,

The chart is starting to take shape nicely. I don’t have software to edit PDF files, so I wasn’t able to make changes directly to the document and send it back to you.

Rather than make a bunch of scattered comments, are you able to import the current information in the chart into a Word or Excel file ??

I believe the Forum software accommodates posting Excel files (*.xls) directly. A Word file would have to be put into a zip folder and then posted.

I could then make changes / suggestions directly, and save us both a lot of typing. Forum members would still be able to view the chart’s progress and comment, each time you reposted it.


Regards,
Taz

[turbo_bu]

I actually have it in Excel. Just figured everybody didn't have access to view it or edit it. I will post the Excel file on Monday (it is on work computer, not at home). Please help to correct or add anything that I am missing.

Thanks for your help,
Darren

[turbo_bu]

Here's the Excel file. Please feel free to add or make any corrections.

Thanks,

[Taz]

Hello Darren,

Thanks for posting the Excel file. I added columns for PCM “Common Serv#” and “Common OS”. These are based on my experience; in my part of the world, and may not reflect global commonalities. Adding columns required some format changes – portrait to landscape, and some tight margins, to name a few.

As you can see from the additions, my experience is primarily within the Gen III engine / LS1-B PCM.

I corrected some misinterpretations from previous posts – mainly in the E40 information.

Hopefully these additions are consistent with your original intentions when beginning this thread.

The Gen IV (E38 / E67) and “Inline engine” (P10 / P11 / P12) information is a little sparse. Hopefully forum members with experience in these areas will take a moment to post some additional information.

Regards,
Taz

[joecar]

Good flow guys :cheers:

Who ever edits the .xls: please bump the revision number in the filename.

[joecar]

How do you tell Excel that you're entering just text and not math...?

[Taz]

Hello Joecar,

Updated the table in my previous post - there was a problem with one column. Excel format - in a cell ? Just right click while in the cell ... choose cell format ... allows for numbers, currency, etc. ... select the format you want for that cell.

Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

Reposting the table ... caused a problem when I tried to edit it.


Regards,
Taz

[turbo_bu]

How do you tell Excel that you're entering just text and not math...?

At the beginning of the line, hit the apostrophe, ' (AKA tick or lower case of the quotes key) and then type what ever you want. This tells Excel this will be text only, no mater what you actually type.

[turbo_bu]

Taz, Thank you for your detailed input.

I do have a stupid question for the day...... Have always read about converting a Vortec to an LS1B setup and was wondering how did they account for the crank and cam sensors. You've shown that the Vortec's have 4x crank and 1x cam.... appears that "some" LS1B's had 4x crank and 1x cam too. Thought all LS1B's had 24x crank and 1x cam?

Reason for the question is that I would love to do LS1B on any V8 by simply using a crank trigger (4X signal). Do you have to use a certain LS1B OS to do it (i.e. Express Van OS)?

[ChipsByAl]

Use the 2002 Express Van OS. It does not support multiple coils, you still need to distribute the spark.
Al

[Taz]

Hello Darren,

I’m glad the input met with your approval – often projects go awry with “new friends”.

When upgrading a Vortec engine (L35, L30, L31) from a black box Vortec PCM to an LS1-B PCM …..


Software

this swap is possible as GM continued the Vortec engine line for a period using the LS1-B style PCM – beginning in 2001
the OEM Vortec tune is written for a “Low Resolution” crank sensor (4x for V8, 3x for V6)


Example

for swap with a V8 Vortec engine (L30, L31) you would require a PCM (or tune) from an 01-02 Express van with the same engine
if the donor LS1-B PCM used already has the correct tune – move on to the hardware section below
if the donor LS1-B PCM is not from a V8 Vortec – then you could do a full reflash of the PCM with the Vortec tune, or copy the applicable segments from a Vortec tune into the LS1-B (both must have the same OS)
the 2002 Vortec V8 Express van used a very common PCM (12200411) and a very common OS (12212156) – which often makes things less complicated


Hardware

the original Vortec wiring harness is used
the pinouts from each PCM application are required – it is often easier to make a chart based on these, of what pin from the Vortec PCM connectors, gets moved to what pin location (cavity) of the LS1-B PCM connectors
move the wires from the Black/White Vortec PCM connectors to the Blue/Red LS1-B PCM connectors wire by wire (“pin by pin”)


To double check that your base tune is correct for the swap

check G1206 (Vehicle Platform) – an Express van should be GTM610
check G1207 (Vehicle Platform Options) – under the GTM610 column, the “Low Resolution Crank” row should be “Yes”

In a nutshell, the swap is possible because GM did it first !!


Regards,
Taz

[Lextech]

There are a couple of corrections that need to be made to the .xls On the distributored Vortec engines--The V6 uses a 3x CKP and 1x CMP signal. The V8 uses a 4x CKP and a 1x CMP. That is a very nice document---Thanks for making it.

Jeff

[joecar]

When I open the file, each block of rows is collapsed down to 1 row (I have to manually expand the rows in each block)... :doh2:

how do I tell Excel to not collapse the block rows...?

[turbo_bu]

When I open the file, each block of rows is collapsed down to 1 row (I have to manually expand the rows in each block)... :doh2:

how do I tell Excel to not collapse the block rows...?

I think Taz did a cut and paste from Word or something. I too can't modify those columns. If it helps, I will update my original Excel file which has each of the line items in a different cell. That way, individual editing will be easier.

Thanks again to everyone for their input. Does anyone know about the other PCM/ECM's in the list (E37, P11, P12, etc...) or if what we have listed is all correct?

[Taz]

Hey Guys,

Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the Excel file. It was a fresh table in Excel 2003 - no cut and paste. I just downloaded it (revision 1a) from the forum - to check, saved it, and it opened fine for me. It does seem to act odd if you select "open" rather than "save" when you click on the link. I also checked the table properties - lock / protect features are not selected. I have Excel 2007 on my other laptop - if that's the version you gentlemen are using.

Don't know why it's acting odd ....


Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

Just downloaded it, and saved, using my other laptop - opened fine in Excel 2007. Are you adding data directly to the cells (that's the way I made the table) ? ... or in the preview window at the bottom of the toolbar ("fx" just to the left) ? ... troubles me that it's acting up .. the purpose of using Excel was to save duplicity of work - not create more !!

Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

Hello Jeff (Lextech),

You are absolutely correct – the V6 Vortec used a 3x CKP .. just doubled checked in the GM service manual … serves me right for working late at night !

Good catch … thanks again.

By the way … I’ve seen some photos of your fabrication work – phenomenal !!


Regards,
Taz

[turbo_bu]

Ah - Excel 2007 .... still using the ol' Excel 2000 (had issues with Office 2003 on my ol' dog laptop).

Anyway, I updated the file a little (hopefully easier to edit for everyone). I'll also post it as a PDF incase someone wants to look at it and doesn't have Excel.

Anyone know what the E37 uses? Guessing 58X and 4X for the crank and cam.

[joecar]

Good idea (.xls and .pdf) :cheers:

For LS1B(512) it says "97-03 Corvette" and "98-02 Camaro"...
shouldn't those say: "99-03 Corvette" and "99-02 Camaro"...?

[Taz]

Hey Guys

Sorry to hear our versions of Excel don’t like each other. I attached chart revision 1 – using the “save as” Excel 97-03 feature in Excel. Let me know if this is compatible with your versions of Excel. Hopefully it is – will save a lot of headaches.

Joecar – you are correct LS1-B should say 99-02 Camaro (my typo from revision 1) and 99-03 Corvette (transition typo).

Darren – it’s unfortunate that you had to make another chart. There are a few errors from transferring the information from revision 1. I had corrected the original misinterpretation of the E40 PCM … it got put back the original (incorrect) way.


there is no “early” or “late” E40 – they’re the same PCM – some 2005 applications were Gen III, some were Gen IV
there is an “early” and “late” LS2 (Gen III and Gen IV)
the 05-06 SSR LS2 in an early LS2 – 24x CKP and 1x CMP
the engine codes that help to identify early LS2 engines (5MC, 6MC, YTA, ZJA, ZJB) did not get transferred into the current chart notes column

Regards,
Taz

[Chevy366]

Man you guys , great info , but my hard drive is filling up with all these revisions . :grin:

[turbo_bu]

Taz,

Sorry for missing those things. I tried to open your repost, but it still shows the funky formating.

Anyway, here's the latest updates.

Thanks,

[Taz]

Hello Darren,

Sorry to hear that again, the file didn’t open in a workable fashion for you. What specific version of Excel do you have, other than Office 2000 – does it indicate 3.0 or 4.0 or any further distinction ? I should be able to save the file using a newer version of Excel, such that an older version of Excel is able to use it – just need to find the correct “save as” parameter.

The chart looks good – excellent updates. Couple of minor revisions:


Vortec black box PCM is 512Kb (more of a reminder to those considering a swap to an LS1-B style PCM)


In the E40 applications column – should read:

05-06 Grand Prix GXP
06 Monte Carlo SS
06 Impala SS


As stated in previous posts, the Gen IV (E38 / E67) and “Inline engine” (P10 / P11 / P12) information remains sparse. Hopefully forum members with experience in these areas will take a moment to forward some additional information. A member who tunes the P10 / P11 / P12 type PCM had made comment in this thread about a week ago – hopefully he’ll find the time to forward some much need information based on his expertise.


Regards,
Taz

[turbo_bu]

Taz, corrections made.

Here is the updated files.

I agree, that it would be nice to get some more info on the other PCM's out there. joecar, maybe we could put a specific link in the other forums to ask for their input in case they don't frequent this one?

[joecar]

ok.

[Wolfie]

8923

not sure if wanted but here is 07 express.
but I don't know the difference (in print) between cal and os.

Oh yeah, by the way, Nice Idea and Nice Information!!!

[Taz]

Hello Wolfie,

Pleased you found the collection of information useful. Thank you for contributing to the database. Your Express is DBW (Drive By Wire) correct ?

PCM service # 12602081 is a common ’06-’07 Gen III PCM. OS 12613248 is common to ’07 trucks / vans with a Gen III V8 and DBW.

Darren (turbo_bu) is the “keeper of the crypt” on this project – our versions of Excel don’t play well together. When he sees this post, I trust he will update the file – adding your input.

Thanks again ……


Regards,
Taz

[Wolfie]

Yes, it is DBW

[turbo_bu]

Here's the updated list with Wolfie's info.

Brings up a good item to maybe add .... which years / OS's went to DBW. Think the vettes lead the pack, but not sure when and if it was still under the LS1B (512K) or if it was the 1MB.

[Taz]

Hello Darren,

DBW and DBC applications have some overlap – the following are “general” applications.


DBC

all ‘96+ Vortec PCM applications
all ’98-’02 Camaro
all ’99-’02 Gen III pickups / vans
all ’99-’01 Gen III SUVs (some ’02 were DBW)
all ’01-’04 LS1-B PCM V6 trucks (ie. S10 / Sierra)
all ’04 GTO
some ’03-’07 Gen III Express / Savana van


DBW

all Corvette applications
all L18 (8.1 L) engines
all ’02+ Gen III Escalade / Denali
some ’02 Gen III Tahoe / Yukon
all ’03+ Gen III trucks
some ’03-’07 Gen III Express / Savana van


Regards,
Taz

[TBMSport]

Awesome thread. Subscribed. I will make my notes/revisions once we confirm all the do's and don't's of our 6L80 project!!

[Taz]

Hello TBMSport,

Thanks for taking the time post. Glad this thread has met with approval. Your input would be greatly appreciated - we're a little light on some information - Gen IV specific (ECM # / TCM # / OS #) is definitely one of these areas.

Thanks again ....


Regards,
Taz

[turbo_bu]

Recently was able to gleen a little data from ScarabEpic22 on the P10 / P12 PCM's.

As always, if you see any errors, please let me know.

Thanks,

[joecar]

Thanks for updating the chart :cheers:

[ScarabEpic22]

Nice, Im pretty sure about the 07 P12s being 58x/4x but Im talking with some guys who build the I6 and who are ripping down a few 07s to double check for me. Know 02-06 and 08-09s for sure though.

[GXP25]

Great stuff!

If I may add: The E40 LS4 is 24X/1X. All '07+ (E67) LS4s are 58X/4X.

Also, the LS4 goes up to 2009 with the Impala SS and LaCrosse Super. So you will have to separate them under the "E67" row as the Grand Prix and Monte Carlo ended in '08 and '07 respectively.

As far as the LS2 TrailBlazer SS is concerned:


A few points:

The 06 TBSS is a 24X engine with the E40 ECM.

The 07 and up TBSS is a 58x engine with an E67 ECM.

The 58X version can be run with either an E67 or an E38 (if doing an engine swap).

The 24X version runs with the E40 (or an older LS1 PCM if doing a swap).

ALL 2006 TBSS are 24X with E40.

The E40 will not run a 58X engine.

I believe the same applies to the 5.3L in the TrailBlazer as well.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1215144-trailblazer-58x-24x.html#6

[Taz]

Hello GXP25,

I’m pleased the thread met with your approval. Darren (turbo_bu) had a great idea when he initiated this thread.

My experience is primarily with the Gen III - just getting into the Gen IV a little bit at present.

Your input is greatly appreciated - the accuracy of the information is very important to all. Just want to clarify your comment on the LS4. My understanding was that LS4 engines were Gen IV from their inception, with no transition from Gen III to Gen IV - as happened with the LS2. I have never disassembled an LS4 - so I'm not sure.



In Darren’s chart:

05-06 Grand Prix GXP and 06 Monte Carlo SS / Impala SS are listed as Gen IV - controlled by the E40 ECM
07-08 models are showed as controlled by the E67 ECM
09 models have yet to be added

Regards,
Taz

[GXP25]

My understanding is that LS4 engines were Gen IV from their inception, with no transition from Gen III to Gen IV - as happened with the LS2.

That is correct.


In Darren’s chart:

05-06 Grand Prix GXP and 06 Monte Carlo SS / Impala SS are listed as Gen IV - controlled by the E40 ECM
07-08 models are showed as controlled by the E67 ECM
09 models have yet to be added


That is correct as well, however, the crankshaft and camshaft sensor types need to be changed according to my previous post.

[Taz]

Hello GXP25,

Sorry, I should have been more clear …

Are you saying the 05-06 LS4 engines are actually Gen III variants (24x CKP / 1 CMP) like the early LS2 engines were ?

And that the LS4 engines transitioned to Gen IV variants (58x CKP / 4 CMP) in 2007 as did the later LS2 engines ?

If so, this would be very helpful to anyone considering an LS4 / 4T65 conversion (especially the Fiero die hards) - potentially allowing the use of a LS1-B PCM - which puts cruise control, Lean Cruise, DBC, and other options “back on the table”.

I greatly appreciate your input - we were lacking Gen IV information from reliable sources when putting the conversion chart together.


Regards,
Taz

[GXP25]

Hello GXP25,

Sorry, I should have been more clear …

Are you saying the 05-06 LS4 engines are actually Gen III variants (24x CKP / 1 CMP) like the early LS2 engines were ?

And that the LS4 engines transitioned to Gen IV variants (58x CKP / 4 CMP) in 2007 as did the later LS2 engines ?

Yes, even though they're officially classified as Gen IV engines. Then again, aren't all Gen IV engines based off of the Gen III design?

"Gen IV" doesn't necessarily equate to 58x/4x.


If so, this would be very helpful to anyone considering an LS4 / 4T65 conversion (especially the Fiero die hards) - potentially allowing the use of a LS1-B PCM - which puts cruise control, Lean Cruise, DBC, and other options “back on the table”.

Have you been to fiero.nl lately? LS4 swaps are all over the place, lol.


I greatly appreciate your input - we were lacking Gen IV information from reliable sources when putting the conversion chart together.


Regards,
Taz

Not a problem at all!

[turbo_bu]

Sorry for not getting this updated sooner. Was out of town all last week. I have made the updates GXP25 / Taz have highlighted. One quick clarification: I was wanting to call out which of the 05-06 E40 LS4's came in from the factory. Guessing Impala SS / Grand Prix GXP / Monte Carlo???

Also, when did the V8's start in the Trail Blazers? Sounds like the 06 TBSS was a 24X E40. But were the 5.3's also the same (I would think so).

[odd boy]

good info, thx for sharing

[ScarabEpic22]

The 5.3 was offered in 03 for extended TrailBlazers and continued up through their demise in 09. SWB TrailBlazers got V8s in 06 with the TBSS (LS2) and the 5.3 LH6 being an option. However the Rainier and Envoy Denali got the 5.3 option in 05 IIRC (before DOD was introduced), in 06 DOD was standard.

Breakdown of how I see it:
02-04 TB LWB 5.3 V8s: LS1 PCM 24x/1x
05-06 5.3: E40 ECM 24x/1x
06 LS2: E40 ECM 24x/1x
07-08 5.3: E67 ECM 58x/4x
07-09 LS2: E67 ECM 58x/4x

02-05 4.2L I6s: P10 PCM 7x/1x?
06 I6: P12 PCM 1MB 7x/1x
07 I6: P12 PCM 2MB 7x/1x (updated 6-13-11)
(but 06 and 07 P12s dont interchange, different flash sizes)
08-09 I6s: E67 ECM 58x/4x? (not sure on cam reluctor)

The reason the years are only through 08 for the 5.3 is GM didnt make any 5.3L TBs for the half MY 09.

[turbo_bu]

ScarabEpic,

Thanks for chiming in. I was hoping that you could clarify the TB stuff for us.

Anyone else have any info on years / models that the LS4 came in?

I will finish updating the spreadsheet and post the updated version in the next few days.

Thanks,

[turbo_bu]

Here is the latest with the updates for LS4 and LS2 information. Please post up if there is anything that is incorrect.

Thanks,

[joecar]

Thanks for the update.

[turbo_bu]

Guys,

My apologies for the incorrect previous post. I did not quite clean up the E40 row with what has been documented by GXP25. Please delete the previous version for those of you following along at home.

Thanks,

[1FastBrick]

LS1B Application DBW was availible around 2000 on SUV's and Trucks if you had features like Auto Ride or traction control. They are few and far between but they are out there.

[Taz]

Hello 1FastBrick,

DBW was introduced on select 2002 truck / SUV (LS1B PCM) - these were a limited production run. All 8.1 L (LS1B PCM) were DBW.


Rgards,
Taz

[ScarabEpic22]

I updated my post #56 with a little different information regarding 07 P12 I6s. Finally got verification what setup they use.

[1FastBrick]

Hello 1FastBrick,

DBW was introduced on select 2002 truck / SUV (LS1B PCM) - these were a limited production run. All 8.1 L (LS1B PCM) were DBW.


Rgards,
Taz

I will try and get you Vin Numbers so you can look up the calibrations. One is a Tahoe the other was a 1500 V-8 Truck.

[doubledip]

I updated my post #56 with a little different information regarding 07 P12 I6s. Finally got verification what setup they use.

got service numbers to differentiate between years?

[ScarabEpic22]

got service numbers to differentiate between years?

I dont sorry, easiest way to tell is the 04-06 P12s are 1MB flash and 07s are 2MB. They both read out using the same bootloader so read it out and the software will tell you what it is. Or Im betting you could pull the calibration information using the Tune tool's PCM information window.

[1FastBrick]

Here is the file from the DBW 2000 Chevy Tahoe I was reffering to. I don't have the file from the 01 truck but it was also equiped with traction controll, auto ride or active ride suspension and DBW. Never seen it on earler then 2000 LS1B Vehicals. Can get a 99 or 2000 vette too also equiped with DBW.

[Taz]

Hello 1FastBrick,

That tune uses OS 12205612 (2000 truck). I have a 2000 DBC truck tune on file that uses that OS. Early DBW setups typically used their own unique OS. The Vehicle Platform Options in that tune file has "Electronic Throttle" denoted as "Yes".

Did you read the tune from the vehicle yourself, and visually confirm it was DBW ? The reason I ask, is that "shared" or "internet" tune files are often altered / corrupted in various ways.

I have never seen a 2000 (non 8.1 L) DBW truck in my area of the world - if they exist, they are rare indeed.


Regards,
Taz

[1FastBrick]

Hello 1FastBrick,

That tune uses OS 12205612 (2000 truck). I have a 2000 DBC truck tune on file that uses that OS. Early DBW setups typically used their own unique OS. The Vehicle Platform Options in that tune file has "Electronic Throttle" denoted as "Yes".

Did you read the tune from the vehicle yourself, and visually confirm it was DBW ? The reason I ask, is that "shared" or "internet" tune files are often altered / corrupted in various ways.

I have never seen a 2000 (non 8.1 L) DBW truck in my area of the world - if they exist, they are rare indeed.


Regards,
Taz
Yes Taz,
I'm a mechanic by trade and pulled the calibration out my self just this morning! Just so happens he was in for an oil change. I made him wait and I hot lapped it home to get my laptop and V2
I also took pictures on my cell phone.

[1FastBrick]

It has to do with traction controll and the autoride suspension. That 01 truck has it too but it been extensively modded and no one has the original OS file any more but I could get the vin number and you could check it out if you wanted too

[1FastBrick]

Were all the LS1B Equiped 99-up corvettes DBW ??? If not I just pulled the calibration from one that is DBW from The Shop next door....

[1FastBrick]

Oh and BTW TAZ I own a 2000 silverado that has that same OS but Is DBC so i understand the confussion. When this customer first brought in this tahoe I was like what the Heck I have never seen that before??? then i found a freind that bought that 01 truck that was also equiped with the DBW. We found out it was because of the traction controll and the auto ride or what ever they call that active susspension in the Suv's there few and far between. I am in california in a heavy populated area and those are the only 2 I have seen but they are factory equiped that way.

[Taz]

Hello 1FastBrick,

Yes .... all Corvettes were DBW. Thanks for your patience on the DBW truck information, as you have discovered by now I try my best to accurately source information - so that we don't inadvertently lead each other astray on this Forum - based on assumption.

I found the traction control link to DBW in sub-2002 Gen III trucks odd - as 1999 to 2002 Camaros were exclusively DBC - and some where equipped with traction control.

I have never seen a sub-2002 non 8.1 L DBW truck (SUV) before .... most of the donor vehicles I use are pickups (not SUVs) ... still learn something everyday !


Regards,
Taz

[finiata]

Being this started as a swap friendly thread I have a direct pcm/engine question. The parts are: 06' L33 (5.3 aluminum Truck block) & an 06' e40 and GTO harness. These both run 24X & 1X but the GTO has the cam sensor on the front, L33 in the back. Do the two sensors work the same? Everything is good except RPM's. I currently have the can signal coming from the rear. This can be moved or deleted, seems like those who may know are here though.

mike

[doubledip]

Being this started as a swap friendly thread I have a direct pcm/engine question. The parts are: 06' L33 (5.3 aluminum Truck block) & an 06' e40 and GTO harness. These both run 24X & 1X but the GTO has the cam sensor on the front, L33 in the back. Do the two sensors work the same? Everything is good except RPM's. I currently have the can signal coming from the rear. This can be moved or deleted, seems like those who may know are here though.

mike

depending if you use front or rear cam sensor then decides how you wire your cam plug... front and rear cam sensors have different pin configuration...

but if you are having RPM problems then that sounds more like a crank sensor fault not cam.

cam sensor wired correctly means car starts fine.. wired incorrectly means hard to start and will make popping sounds on startup as it tries to figure out compression/exhauist strokes

[finiata]

Yes the 12v and signal are reversed between the front and rear. I keep coming back to the crank. I'm wondering if the e40 I have was actually setup as a 58t and not a GTO e40. Can it be switched from one to another?

[doubledip]

Yes the 12v and signal are reversed between the front and rear. I keep coming back to the crank. I'm wondering if the e40 I have was actually setup as a 58t and not a GTO e40. Can it be switched from one to another?

No E40 all 24x

is wiring correct.. you have 12V down at the sensor? you using a black sensor not grey/beige/cream in colour?

[finiata]

No E40 all 24x

is wiring correct.. you have 12V down at the sensor? you using a black sensor not grey/beige/cream in colour?

See. This is what confuses me. This thread has a file that says some of the e40's were indeed 58t, so what gives? Yep wiring is correct, yep got 12 on the blue/white wire and yep its the black sensor, tested the wiring and the sensor. If there is truly no 58t e40 I'm screwed and the motor will have to back out because its a reluctor wheel issue. I'm pretty much disgusted at this point.

thanks

[joecar]

LPE sells a 58x->24x module for converting the 58x pulsetrain to the equivalent 24x encoded pulsetrain for 411 and E40.

[joecar]

See the pdf in post #60 above: CKP/CMP reluctor info (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9825&d=1296494824)

[finiata]

Sorta muddied this thread I started another for this issue, I'll post there. thanks

[Taz]

See. This is what confuses me. This thread has a file that says some of the e40's were indeed 58t, so what gives?

Hello Finiata,

My apologies for the E40 confusion in this thread - as Doubledip stated E40's are 24x CKP only. This was one of the first threads I collaborated on when I joined the Forum. I contributed a lot of the LS1-B information - which in my mind was accurate at the time - although I still learn new things about the LS1-B PCM.

The rest of the information in the thread was from various contributors and sourced where possible.

There is a subsequent discussion in the thread regarding all LS4 engines having 24x CKP setups. What is not implicitly stated - based on this, and other information, is that E40s were only used on 24x CKP setups.

The prior belief that some of the LS2 / LS4 using the E40 had 58x CKP was inaccurate.


Regards,
Taz

[L31Sleeper]

See the pdf in post #60 above: CKP/CMP reluctor info (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9825&d=1296494824)


Awesome spreadsheet, Good Info

So that rules out that problem unless the engine is 58x ??

[joecar]

Awesome spreadsheet, Good Info

So that rules out that problem unless the engine is 58x ??Remind me which engine you have...?

[L31Sleeper]

He has an L33 It's the all aluminum 5.3

[turbo_bu]

Sorry for the long delay, but here is an updated version with the latest information clarifying the Trailblazer ECM's that ScarabEpic22 has shared with us. The P12's were always 7x / 1x, the later V8's were E67's.

[joecar]

No worries... thanks for the update :cheers:

[hog]

Not sure if this is still being updated, but just in case.
Under Vortec V6/V8 the 1996-2000 7.4/454 is referred to as the L19, when in fact it should be rpo L29, it uses the blackbox Vortec PCM 4x crank reluctor and 1x CMP sensor.

There is also an engine which uses the 16232148 and 16238212 LS1 PCM's. Using OS's 9354781T, 9369651T and 9384681T.

Here are 2 L21 equipped VIN's
1GDL7H1D0XJ514472
1GBMP37B2W3311219

The engine was used in 1998-2001 P30 vans, Kodiac/Workhorse
And use these specific parts Reluctor -12552480 crank sensor - 10456248. The reluctor is a 24x reluctor which actually fits under the front timing cover.
The L21 is an L29 with different cylinder head part numbers, CNP(Coil Near Plug) ignition and ETC(Electronic Throttle Control-ETC=DBW=Drive By Wire) whereas teh standard L29 Vortec 454 has cable throttle or DBC(Drive By Cable) and a single coil using a distributer. It was the 1st Chev BBC to get ETC and CNP. Instead of the distributer being used to give spark to each of 8 cylinders, the distributer is used to drive the oil pump and as a source for the 1x CMP signal. This engine is electronically an overgrown LS1. Its reluctor if sized for a smallblock Chev crank snout can be used as a basis for GEN 1/GEN 1E SBC CNP/ETC just as EFIConnections 24x reluctor does. Just need a 1996-2000 Vortec L31 350 front timing cover and the L21 CKP sensor.

Thread with some pics and some GM illustrations.
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7181&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=l21&start=0&sid=bc7edc90186b0584b7682df3d798118f

Great list

peace
Hog

[joecar]

Thanks for the info.

[turbo_bu]

hog,

yes, thanks for the info and I will make the additions / corrections to the list.

[hog]

No problem.

peace
Hog

[turbo_bu]

Here is latest update with the information that was generously shared by hog.

[joecar]

Thanks guys for the info/effort :cheers:

[1FastBrick]

What a great Chart!!! Thanks for sharing HOG

I don't see the LM4 and the L33 Aluminum 5.3L listed on the chart.

Looks like there is an 04 SSR for an LM4 OS and a 2005 GMC with L33 in the tunefile depot.

[turbo_bu]

Minor update to include the SSR. Also tried to squeeze in a few more RPO codes and a quick description. As usual, if you see anything missing or any errors, please let us know.

Thanks,

[lwrs10]

I wanted to add to this tread, as there is some very good info in here.

The 2004-1007 Ion Redline and Cobalt SS used the P12 PCM and were 100% 58x. I am working on an E67 swap for my 2007 right now, and verified the reluctor wheel is 58x at a local machine shop where one of these motors is in for work. I had it in my hands, and it is not a 7x.

[ScarabEpic22]

I wanted to add to this tread, as there is some very good info in here.

The 2004-1007 Ion Redline and Cobalt SS used the P12 PCM and were 100% 58x. I am working on an E67 swap for my 2007 right now, and verified the reluctor wheel is 58x at a local machine shop where one of these motors is in for work. I had it in my hands, and it is not a 7x.

This was brought up to me a few weeks ago as well, unless the P10 is 58x as well (doubtful, was released in 02 and Ive seen 02-05 I6 reluctors, they're 7x) then it means at least the 06 P12 can run BOTH 7x and 58x setups. It is OS dependent at that point, the I4/I5s were either all 58x or the Atlas engines were 7x and the Cobalt/Redline ones are 58x. I know for a fact the 06 P12 can run an 02-05 I6 which is 7x using the TB/Voy OS.

[lwrs10]

This was brought up to me a few weeks ago as well, unless the P10 is 58x as well (doubtful, was released in 02 and Ive seen 02-05 I6 reluctors, they're 7x) then it means at least the 06 P12 can run BOTH 7x and 58x setups. It is OS dependent at that point, the I4/I5s were either all 58x or the Atlas engines were 7x and the Cobalt/Redline ones are 58x. I know for a fact the 06 P12 can run an 02-05 I6 which is 7x using the TB/Voy OS.


From what i understand they run both. I do know the Cobalt reluctor wheel is clocked 30 degrees delayed and uses a different sensor than every other car. I want to do an E67 swap for the tuning ability, since the P12 is missing so many tables. The crank sensor part is the only thing holding me up. The E67 ran the 2.4 Cobalt SS cars, so besides the crank sensor part, it should work.

[ScarabEpic22]

Im not sure where the 4cyl cars get their crank signal, but worst case you could fab a 58x reluctor wheel and put it on the crank dampener (if there's room). Mount it externally to the engine then you could use the E67. Not sure if that'd work for your setup, I havent been under the hood of a Cobalt SS.

[slows10]

Can this thread be cleaned up? I used the list from the first page and it is wrong as far as the e40 ecm is concerned. The correct list info is not fully correct until page 5 of this thread. Just maybe eliminate all the previous files until the last one.

[joecar]

Post #95 contains the most recent document/list.

PCM-Conversion-Information&p=188765-->post#95 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14200-PCM-Conversion-Information&p=188765&viewfull=1#post188765)

[joecar]

Yah, maybe we should just update the document attached in post #1.

[dfarr67]

one pcm I`m not seeing is 12581565 would this be a suitable unit to retrofit into a 1989 K1500 with TPI, engine is staying Gen1 but I am having EFIconnections 24x reluctor installed. Wondering about gauges, 40T transfercase reluctor on the 700r4. A Silverado is in the wreckers now and I can grab the complete harness, coils and ecu. Perhaps there is a better choice- 411.... but this is here and now.

[Tom B.]

Ttt

[WhisperPC]

Lots of good information here.

As a result of a quick read through the PDF referenced in the second post:

Missing from the abbreviation list: DOD, CKP (in header), CMP (in header), CAX

Missing from the engine RPO list: LK5, L52, LL8, LSJ, LD9, L61, LN2, LU3

References to I4/5/6, L4 and V6 for specific vehicles should be replaced with the RPO.

Which ECUs are MAP/TPS (are there any?) and which are MAF/MAP/TPS? Which ECUs can handle E85 (flex-fuel) with stock programming?

Should it be mentioned that all ECUs need engine temp and intake air temp sensors?

Should it be mentioned that DBC implementations need an IAC system (includes add IAC to the abbreviation list)?

DBW/DBC information is sparse, especially on the newer ECUs.

[joecar]

For those reading who must know what they mean:

DOD = Displacement on Demand, aka AFM

AFM = Active Fuel Management, aka DOD

IAC = Idle Air Control

CKP = symbol for Crank Position and/or its sensor

CMP = symbol for Cam Position and/or its sensor

CAX = calibration extension (if a user knows where an unpublished table resides at in the PCM's flash, they can make a definition to expose it)

[kwbudaman]

For those reading who must know what they mean:

DOD = Displacement on Demand, aka AFM

AFM = Active Fuel Management, aka DOD

IAC = Idle Air Control

CKP = symbol for Crank Position and/or its sensor

CMP = symbol for Cam Position and/or its sensor

CAX = calibration extension (if a user knows where an unpublished table resides at in the PCM's flash, they can make a definition to expose it)

Thanks, Joe!