Full Flash option greyed out.

[carl0s]

I want to try loading the 2006 operating system onto my 2005 GTO E40 PCM, because I read somewhere that full CAN stuff wasn't implemented until 2006.
I downloaded a tune file from holdencrazy.com but the option to Full Flash is greyed out.

Am I missing something ?

cheers,
Carl

[carl0s]

Ignore me. It's working :-)
The cable wasn't detected upon start up, even though it was working with the cable in other ways.
I had to restart EFILive.

Hope I don't break my ECM !

cheers,
Carl

[carl0s]

Hmm. The bootblock numbers are not compatible :-( Should I override that check ?

[carl0s]

Meh. Won't let me do it because boot blocks are incompatible :-(

[joecar]

Carl,

Do you have FlashScan V2...?

Which firmware version is in it...?

[carl0s]

Hi Joe. Yes it's a V2 and I have the latest firmware etc. from about 2 or 3 weeks ago.
The full flash option works now, it's just that I'm not allowed to use an OS from a 2006 E40 ECM on my 2005 E40 ECM :-(
I hope the thing I read about CAN support was wrong ..

[GMPX]

The check is in there to stop you killing the ECM.
GM made a change on the E40 that makes the later operating systems incompatible with the early ECM's. I can tell you that there is been numerous E40's bricked beyond repair by GM's SPS for this very problem.
If you post up what the existing Operating System is in your E40 and what the one is you want to flash in I'll double check that they aren't compatible for you.

Cheers,
Ross

[L31Sleeper]

If you post up what the existing Operating System is in your E40 and what the one is you want to flash in I'll double check that they aren't compatible for you.

What a nice guy...........LOL

[carl0s]

The check is in there to stop you killing the ECM.
GM made a change on the E40 that makes the later operating systems incompatible with the early ECM's. I can tell you that there is been numerous E40's bricked beyond repair by GM's SPS for this very problem.
If you post up what the existing Operating System is in your E40 and what the one is you want to flash in I'll double check that they aren't compatible for you.

Cheers,
Ross

Thanks Ross.
The current OS is 12596734
I was trying to flash any 2006 OS that I can find, which is:
12603159 or 12604792.

Do you know whether there is in fact any difference in the High-Speed CAN / GMLAN protocol between the 2005 and 2006 E40s ?
As it turns out, someone I know locally-ish has a 2006 LS2 with an E40, so I may get to have a look first hand.

So far, I am hoping that once I start broadcasting the last 8 digits of my VIN, every second, on the CAN bus, that the ECM will think "hey.. PIM! There you are! Let's talk!", and things will start to look how I expect them to.
Right now, the CAN frames coming out of my ECM look nothing like the GMLAN specs (GMW8762) say they should, but then I have no PIM or BCM so there's nothing for the ECM to be talking GMLAN with anyway.
I have had a look at capture from a 2006 Impala SS and everything looks perfect on that vehicle! All as per the specs.

The GMW8762 specs say:

This document defines a standard electrical
interface between Platform and Powertrain
systems and components on all GM (General
Motors) cars and light duty trucks equipped with
internal combustion engines. It shall apply to all
Platform Electrical or Vehicle Majors in Model Year
2005 and beyond.

I am worried that the 2005 GTO somehow wasn't included in that, and that only the 126xx OS fits the spec. I'll find out soon enough I suppose.

[gmh308]

Thanks Ross.
The current OS is 12596734
I was trying to flash any 2006 OS that I can find, which is:
12603159 or 12604792.

Do you know whether there is in fact any difference in the High-Speed CAN / GMLAN protocol between the 2005 and 2006 E40s ?
As it turns out, someone I know locally-ish has a 2006 LS2 with an E40, so I may get to have a look first hand.

So far, I am hoping that once I start broadcasting the last 8 digits of my VIN, every second, on the CAN bus, that the ECM will think "hey.. PIM! There you are! Let's talk!", and things will start to look how I expect them to.
Right now, the CAN frames coming out of my ECM look nothing like the GMLAN specs (GMW8762) say they should, but then I have no PIM or BCM so there's nothing for the ECM to be talking GMLAN with anyway.
I have had a look at capture from a 2006 Impala SS and everything looks perfect on that vehicle! All as per the specs.

FYI - and would defer to Ross on this for a definitive answer but 12603159 is usually the danger OS to flash into earlier E40s' (svc# 12597883) and vice versa that causes brickification. 12604792 is more likely to be compatible - but even if it doesnt brick it - in a regular production car it may cause some issues. With any luck GM has not changed the message set but with different emissions regs coming in for 06 maybe this might drive the changes. C6 LS2's had E38's for 06 whereas GTO LS2's had E40's. (?)

Do you have a CAN problem. Would be interesting to know what you are scanning the CAN frames with? And where can the GM specs be obtained? :) Is GMW8762 available from GM?

[carl0s]

FYI - and would defer to Ross on this for a definitive answer but 12603159 is usually the danger OS to flash into earlier E40s' (svc# 12597883) and vice versa that causes brickification. 12604792 should be compatible. With any luck GM has not changed the message set but with different emissions regs coming in for 06 maybe this might drive the changes.

Do you have a CAN problem. Would be interesting to know what you are scanning the CAN frames with? And where can the GM specs be obtained? :) Is GMW8762 available from GM?

That's interesting.. if there's a chance I could get a 126xx OS without bricking. Still, might not be necessary anyway. I'll have a better CAN scanner/transmitter tomorrow with which I'll be able to send multiple frames at designated intervals (every 100msec, 1000msec, etc.), so I'll be able to try out the VIN transmitting that the PIM is supposed to send every second and what not.

GMW8762 is available from IHS (http://store.ihs.com) for $30. It lists the platform to powertrain specification, and is nicely detailed. It uses CAN 2.0a (11-bit headers), but the actual specification of what the frames mean, i.e. the function of each header code, the bytes used in the CAN frames etc, is what GM call GMLAN. On this PPEI (platform - powertrain electrical interface.. i.e. the link from the ECM to the PIM/GW/BCM), everything is detailed, but it's all platform to powertrain stuff. There's no "comfort" stuff, e.g. unlocking doors, printing text to the LCD displays, controlling the radio etc. All of that stuff goes on the low-speed CAN bus, which is totally separate, and comes from the BCM to the dashboard/doors/HVAC/etc. That side of things is called SW-CAN (single-wire CAN), and is what most people are talking about when they mention GMLAN, but in my case I am referring to High-Speed GMLAN. If you google GMLAN you'll find a few blogs where people are hacking on the SW-CAN bus, usually by modifying ~$20 ELM327 OBD scanners to work on the single wire, and they're doing all sorts of interesting stuff like opening doors, writing text to displays etc.

Because my LS2/T56 is in a Mazda RX7, I don't have a BCM or PIM, and I want to make a module that will send the "AC ON" request to the ECM. On the E40 based LS2, the AC ON request goes over GMLAN (through the BCM -> PIM (GW) -> ECM), and I want to send that. I kind of want to pretend to be a BCM/PIM, so that I can have ECM controlled air conditioning (torque reduction on compressor engagement to reduce shock, idle-up, WOT compressor disengagement, etc.).

I'm enjoying it so far and seem to be slowly coming to grips with it, but I'll be a bit upset if it turns out that my 2005 E40 doesn't even talk the right language. I'll probably end up buying a 2006 PCM just so I haven't wasted all this money and time on CAN tools/software. I spend $150 on GMWxxxx spec sheets from IHS already!

[gmh308]

That's interesting.. if there's a chance I could get a 126xx OS without bricking. Still, might not be necessary anyway. I'll have a better CAN scanner/transmitter tomorrow with which I'll be able to send multiple frames at designated intervals (every 100msec, 1000msec, etc.), so I'll be able to try out the VIN transmitting that the PIM is supposed to send every second and what not.

GMW8762 is available from IHS (http://store.ihs.com) for $30. It lists the platform to powertrain specification, and is nicely detailed. It uses CAN 2.0a (11-bit headers), but the actual specification of what the frames mean, i.e. the function of each header code, the bytes used in the CAN frames etc, is what GM call GMLAN. On this PPEI (platform - powertrain electrical interface.. i.e. the link from the ECM to the PIM/GW/BCM), everything is detailed, but it's all platform to powertrain stuff. There's no "comfort" stuff, e.g. unlocking doors, printing text to the LCD displays, controlling the radio etc. All of that stuff goes on the low-speed CAN bus, which is totally separate, and comes from the BCM to the dashboard/doors/HVAC/etc. That side of things is called SW-CAN (single-wire CAN), and is what most people are talking about when they mention GMLAN, but in my case I am referring to High-Speed GMLAN. If you google GMLAN you'll find a few blogs where people are hacking on the SW-CAN bus, usually by modifying ~$20 ELM327 OBD scanners to work on the single wire, and they're doing all sorts of interesting stuff like opening doors, writing text to displays etc.

Because my LS2/T56 is in a Mazda RX7, I don't have a BCM or PIM, and I want to make a module that will send the "AC ON" request to the PCM. On the E40 based LS2, the AC ON request goes over GMLAN (through the BCM -> PIM (GW) -> ECM), and I want to send that. I kind of want to pretend to be a BCM/PIM, so that I can have ECM controlled air conditioning (torque reduction on compressor engagement to reduce shock, idle-up, WOT compressor disengagement, etc.).

I'm enjoying it so far and seem to be slowly coming to grips with it, but I'll be a bit upset if it turns out that my 2005 E40 doesn't even talk the right language. I'll probably end up buying a 2006 PCM just so I haven't wasted all this money and time on CAN tools/software. I spend $150 on GMWxxxx spec sheets from IHS already!

Ok yes. That makes a lot of sense getting the A/C on message through to the ECM for your conversion. Is simply sending the right message with the right contents not enough? Cruise control next? :)

What scanner/transmitter device are you using? Commercially available?

[carl0s]

Ok yes. That makes a lot of sense getting the A/C on message through to the ECM for your conversion. Cruise control next? :)

What scanner/transmitter device are you using? Commercially available?

Yeah! Or what about traction control! The wheel speed messages go through the same way :-)

I have been using a USB based ELM327, which is cheap as chips. The bluetooth version is no good (can't keep up), but the USB one, after setting the rs232 (it uses a USB -> serial converter) to 115.2k, keeps up nicely. It dumps the traffic on the bus nicely, and with the right configuration commands you can send whatever frames you want, but it's really meant as an OBD tool, and so isn't ideal for real CAN experimenting, in particular there's little software that will deal with its output, or send frames on triggers etc, and it's awkward to send lots of frames with different headers quickly when talking to it through a terminal (it uses modem-like AT commands, with separate commands for setting the header, then you send the data bytes with another command, and it talks back a lot, so you can't just dump a load of commands to the terminal from the clipboard).

Tomorrow I'll have a Lawicel CANUSB arriving, and a copy of CAN Monitor Pro. There are quite a few useful tools that will work with the Lawicel CANUSB, plus there's a LabVIEW driver. I've never used LabVIEW before but it looks cool and I just downloaded an evaluation of it.

[gmh308]

Yeah! Or what about traction control! The wheel speed messages go through the same way :-)


Very good point! Once the wheel speed or whatever the right messages are, then the launch control in the '10 OS's becomes a possibility too! :)

[carl0s]

Unbelievable :( So it looks as if the guy who said "The GTO came with the E40 in 2005 but didn't get CANN [sic] operating software until the next year" was mostly right. Judging by what my ECM is putting out anyway.

It's a CAN bus, and they are CAN packets, but they don't follow any of the supposed standard for GMLAN over CAN. They're not GMLAN style frames at all.

All GMLAN frames seem to have the CAN / Header / Arbitration ID format of:
[1-9][A-F][1-9]

i.e. they have a letter in the middle, not a number.

All of the header ID's coming out of my E40 are three digit numbers.

I really need to see what's coming out of a 2006 E40 before I buy one.

Not exactly over the moon, but I've invested enough time and effort in this project now that I will spend the money on a newer PCM just to have a successful outcome.

Ross:

I don't suppose there are *any* 2006 O/Ss that are known to not brick the 2005 PCM are there? and a way of overriding the full flash protection to get one loaded up ?

[L31Sleeper]

You start out with a simple engine swap and become a CAN / GMLAN expert !! LOL

[carl0s]

You start out with a simple engine swap and become a CAN / GMLAN expert !! LOL

I know! My only other worry now, is this ECM -> PIM authentication business. I hope that's literally just for cranking the engine/running the engine. If I get a CAN ECM (2006 E40), and then find that I have to go through this authentication mechanism, (which I won't be able to do because I don't know how), then it'll be a real kick in the teeth!

[GMPX]

Given you have an early E40 OS 12596734 you would need to post the actual file up here, it's the bootblock in the ECM that is the problem, not the OS. I was more seeing if you had a later OS in there already.
Funny you mention the override of the check. I know of a few people that did that, they used TIS/SPS to put a 2006 OS in to the 2005 that EFILive stopped them doing, guess what, E40 doorstops!!
For all your messing around you just need to take a look on Ebay for a used 2006 E40, you should be able to pick one up for under $100.

[carl0s]

Given you have an early E40 OS 12596734 you would need to post the actual file up here, it's the bootblock in the ECM that is the problem, not the OS. I was more seeing if you had a later OS in there already.
Funny you mention the override of the check. I know of a few people that did that, they used TIS/SPS to put a 2006 OS in to the 2005 that EFILive stopped them doing, guess what, E40 doorstops!!
For all your messing around you just need to take a look on Ebay for a used 2006 E40, you should be able to pick one up for under $100.

I know. I have looked, and cheapest is $185. I am ready to push the button on that, but I am waiting until tonight when I go and look at a friend's 2006 E40 just to make sure it is putting out different signals.