E38 OS with T42 TCM

[mbsurfersc]

I've been looking all over and can't seem to find anything on this. I'm currently working on a 2010 Escalade with an E38. Swapped the tranny out for a 4L60 with a T42 and was wondering if anyone has an OS that supports these two things together. Any help would be much appreciated.

[Tre-Cool]

not sure if this will help. but it comes from a 12597121 ecu.

[Taz]

A member recently completed a similar swap ... E38 controlled 2007 Escalade L92 6.2L with T42 controlled 4L70E ... thread below ... long read ... but lots of info ..


http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14440-First-tune-record-help-a-newbie


Regards,
Taz

[swingtan]

All auto based VZ holden 6lt vehicles had this combo, E38 and T42 ( not HSV ). So it's certainly possible.

[doubledip]

All auto based VZ holden 6lt vehicles had this combo, E38 and T42 ( not HSV ). So it's certainly possible.

yes but will need to do something with the ISS as the E38 looks for it in the Holden OS's . a 4L60E in a Holden guise doesnt have it fitted and only certain 4L65E's had it fitted... so just beware

[mbsurfersc]

The big thing is that the ECM is a 2010 and I cant find a calibration that is compatible with that. Anyone happen to have one?

[Tre-Cool]

the export holdens to dubui also only had 4 speed auto's too.

[ScarabEpic22]

Hmm why bother swapping to a 4 speed?

Regardless, you can try running an earlier T42 OS and see if it communicates to the ECM properly. The only issue running a Holden ECM OS is the likelihood of it not playing well with the BCM, cluster, etc in an Escalade. Is this swap in an actual Escalade or is it a swap?

[mbsurfersc]

Its in an Escalade. The reason for the 4 speed swap is because the 6spds even built dont hold up that well to the power. This thing will be making around 850 at all 4 wheels ;)

[gmh308]

The Silverado 4.8 Vortec has an A4. That would be the best chance. There is a guy on the Corvette forums that runs consistent low 10's in the brackets with an A6 and has run hi 9's.

And a few other options here:

http://archives.media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2010/gmna/10truck_us.htm

But the Silverado OS's would be the best chance to ensure the ECM and TCM are set with the necessary options to support the rest of the Silverado platform ECU's.

The 4.8 has 24243357 in the T42 and 12636005 in the ECM. The ECM is the same OS for the A6 as the A4 so you really only need to do a cal flash to the existing E38 OS when you find the right ECM calibration for the A4.

[Taz]

Attached is a 2010 T42 4L60E 4x4 from a pickup .... hopefully it helps.


Regards,
Taz

9158

[68problemchild]

L92 with 4L70E

I think its posted in my thread but if not, let me know and I can send you the tune.

[gmh308]

L92 with 4L70E

I think its posted in my thread but if not, let me know and I can send you the tune.

It's there...but dont try that '08 ECM file in a '10 controller. Not good! :)

Taz's T42 file is a very close fit for the Silverado A4. Same segment numbers other than the cal segment itself so a very good chance. :)

[mbsurfersc]

I really appreciate the help guys, ill let you know how it turns out.

Anyone know where I can get the Silverado file to mate up with the T42 file from Taz?

Any help is greatly appreciated

[Taz]

Sorry misunderstood ... thought the 2010 T42 from the pickup would be compatible with the 2010 E38 from the Escalade ... have the pickup tune on file if it turns out you need it ... away until Friday afternoon ... could send it then.

Hopefully the Escalade tune is compatible - would save you some work !


Regards,
Taz

[mbsurfersc]

yea def, i will try it hopefully tomorrow and I'll let you know, thanks again for the help!!!

[mbsurfersc]

No dice... i cant seem to get anything out of the ecm. Any chance i could get that file out of the truck that you have taz? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!

[gmh308]

No dice... i cant seem to get anything out of the ecm. Any chance i could get that file out of the truck that you have taz? Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!

That's really odd. Post the tune from the ECM up and I will take a look at it.

[mbsurfersc]

9172


Couple of wierd things going on here.

1. The ecm will not talk to the v2 through the obd port. When i put it on my bench harness though everything is seemless.

2. Also when I turn the key over to try and start the truck, the dash and everything goes blank like it would normally be starting but It wont turn over. The vehicle does turn over however when you jump the relay.

Not sure if the ECM not having a T42 friendly cal in it is causing the no start but the fact that it wont talk through the OBD port is really confusing.

[gmh308]

9172


Couple of wierd things going on here.

1. The ecm will not talk to the v2 through the obd port. When i put it on my bench harness though everything is seemless.

2. Also when I turn the key over to try and start the truck, the dash and everything goes blank like it would normally be starting but It wont turn over. The vehicle does turn over however when you jump the relay.

Not sure if the ECM not having a T42 friendly cal in it is causing the no start but the fact that it wont talk through the OBD port is really confusing.

A few checkpoints:

What OS patch/s do you have applied? Dont have a V2 with me at present so cant check.

Is this the ECM that came in the truck? i.e. all VATS/security would be in line?

Remembered a point on the T42. Normally they use a hardwired speedo/VSS line TCM > ECM. Not sure whether your platform with A4 does this, you would need to check the schematics. A6 generally transmits VSS via CAN but some trucks do use hardwire as well.

When you wired in the TCM and trans wiring, what did you use for the pinout configuration?

i.e. is CAN still passing through the TCM?

FYI also - your tune is MY09. ECM should be service number 12625455.

[Taz]

Hello mbsurfersc,

Your user profile is not setup to receive PM (private message) from other members ... FYI


Regards,
Taz

[mbsurfersc]

Not sure why i cant receive them. If you would like please email me at zwhill@hotmail.com

[mbsurfersc]

A few checkpoints:

What OS patch/s do you have applied? Dont have a V2 with me at present so cant check.

Is this the ECM that came in the truck? i.e. all VATS/security would be in line?

Remembered a point on the T42. Normally they use a hardwired speedo/VSS line TCM > ECM. Not sure whether your platform with A4 does this, you would need to check the schematics. A6 generally transmits VSS via CAN but some trucks do use hardwire as well.

When you wired in the TCM and trans wiring, what did you use for the pinout configuration?

i.e. is CAN still passing through the TCM?

FYI also - your tune is MY09. ECM should be service number 12625455.


Yes it is the ECM that came in the truck with the factory tune on it, adjusted for injectors,motor,ect ect

All of the vats are disabled and have been full flashed into it.

The tranny config has be tried both ways, with the can bus running through it and without. All i get is the dash going dark when i turn the key, suggesting that the vehicle is trying to start but nothing.

The speedo and stuff is hardwired.

[joecar]

It takes 10+ posts before pm's enable.

[mbsurfersc]

another thought...
should there be any need for an external gear position switch for the different transmission.

[mbsurfersc]

Still no dice. Seems as though the truck wont start because it doesnt think its in neutral or park. Im getting pretty frusterated with this thing. Anybody have any input on the gear position thing.

[mbsurfersc]

correcting myself :)

[Taz]

Just so I'm clear ... you turn the key to "on" everything powers up ... you turn the key to start and, the engine doesn't turn over, or the engine turns over but doesn't start.

If it doesn't turn over at all, and you have 12 volts in the battery, and you've applied the VATS / Crank patch - then I would agree - park / neutral issue. Never worked on a 6L80E - does it have an external park / neutral / gear position switch like a 4L60E?

If you have the wiring diagrams for the Escalade - you may be able to use a jumper wire in the interim to check.

Regards,
Taz

[mbsurfersc]

Sorry to be unclear...

When the key is turned on, everything powers up. When you turn the key to start, the dash goes dark as though it was trying to start. The best way I can describe it is that is acts like a manual vehicle when you turn the key but dont push the clutch.

I have 12 volts. and the vats and crank patches are applied.

The 6l80 doesnt have an external sensor.

We have gone through the pinout and found the wire that appears to only need to be grounded but no luck.

Another thing that still is in the back of my mind is the fact that i cannot communicate to the ECM through the OBD 2 port

[Taz]

Read your previous post about being able to bench program the ECM, but not via the OBD-II port - odd, and is probably part of the problem. Know Gen IIIs well, Gen IVs not so much. Does the OBD-II port wiring traverse through the BCM or any other module before the ECM ? Is there both battery and ignition power at the OBD-II port ?

On 4L60E with external park / neutral / gear postion switch - when key is turned to "start" power runs to the P/N switch, if in park or neutral, power then flows to the starter relay.

Don't have a manual for a 2010 Escalade ... just thinking out loud.

Regards,
Taz

[gmh308]

Another thing that still is in the back of my mind is the fact that i cannot communicate to the ECM through the OBD 2 port

If you cant talk to the ECM there is a fair chance that the BCM has the same challenge hence no start. It the config is similar to other GM platforms the DLC connector and BCM dont see ECM CAN until it is passed through the TCM.

[mbsurfersc]

Taz & gmh308,

Both of those things make very logical sense.

gmh308,

I can talk to the tcm through the obd port either. The only thing is that i do not have a bench harness for that controller and have no way to get a cal into it. I guess the next step would be to buy that harness? Ill let you guys know

[Taz]

Not sure on Gen IVs ... definite communication issue ... assuming the T43 used CAN type communication ... is that the case also with the T42 ? Does your existing harness need be repinned to work with the T42 ? Seems that the TCM is probably the roadblock to commuication with the ECM (and starting) currently.

I'm old school and need to view things in print ... I always buy the Helm manual on these types of projects ... often a very simple solution will present itself.

Regards,
Taz

[mbsurfersc]

The t42 does communicate via can. The harness have is an adaptor deal that splices into the e38 harness. I have a feeling that the splices are in the wrong part of the can bus communication. I'm going to try moving those around and perhaps that will fix the issue.

[mbsurfersc]

Anybody know where i can get a bench harness for the t42?

[Taz]

EFI Connection ... was looking at those the other day.

Regards,
Taz

[mbsurfersc]

After going on there website it realized i had the connector on my e67 harness lol

so i flashed the tcm with the tune you provided taz and put it all back in the car.

Still the same thing... doesnt even turn over with the key

i went and jumped the relay and cranked it over, checking the basics.

I have spark but not injector fire. Seems to me like its the VATS. all of that is diabled in the ecm... Anychance another module could be doing this?

[Taz]

Haven't done a Gen IV conversion yet ... LS1-B guy. If I understand what Ian (gmh308) described, the OBD-II communication goes to the TCM first, when the other controllers after - not sure in what order (ie. ECM / BCM / ACM / ABS). It would seem that until the communications "path" is corrected, the vehicle is not going to start. That is, the VATS patch and other tuning in the ECM can't communicate with the BCM, etc.

Once all the modules are "talking" again, then your tuning (VATS patch, etc.) should allow the vehicle to start. My guess is that the problem is in how the T42 is currently wired into your existing harness.

Sorry I can't be of more assistance - out of my area of expertise.

Regards,
Taz

[gmh308]

After going on there website it realized i had the connector on my e67 harness lol

so i flashed the tcm with the tune you provided taz and put it all back in the car.

Still the same thing... doesnt even turn over with the key

i went and jumped the relay and cranked it over, checking the basics.

I have spark but not injector fire. Seems to me like its the VATS. all of that is diabled in the ecm... Anychance another module could be doing this?

E67 connector into T42? T42 is a micro 64 connector and the E67/E38's are a finer pitch pin architecture again.....

The CAN linkage is typically:

ECM >>>>> TCM >>>>> EBCM/ABS >>>>> BCM >>>>> DLC >>>>> Anti Theft Controller etc Plus maybe an optional item like steering angle sensor if the vehicle has ESC/ESP.

So if your CAN does not have this continuity DLC to ECM it definately wont start. The crank command is generated by the BCM normally after it has said hello to the ECM the ATC the DIC/IP and the key and exchanged some "secret" messages and decided the car is not being stolen and the EBCM is functioning normally as well.

VATS will not bypass this process. VATS in the ECM is to enable coils and injectors without needing the BCM to say all is good to go. :)

Is your crank relay still connected to the ECM when you "hot wire" it?

[68problemchild]

Sorry Newbie here and you guys are way beyond me but I needed no less than 5 heavy gauge grounds to the motor all directly run to the negative terminal on the battery before the fuel injectors began firing. I had spark and crank but no fuel pumping. L92 with 4l70e. Such is the blessing of a non conductive all aluminum motor.

[gmh308]

Sorry Newbie here and you guys are way beyond me but I needed no less than 5 heavy gauge grounds to the motor all directly run to the negative terminal on the battery before the fuel injectors began firing. I had spark and crank but no fuel pumping. L92 with 4l70e. Such is the blessing of a non conductive all aluminum motor.

Newbie? LOL you've been through the wars already :)!

5 grounds. That's wierd. Normally a well designed harness has a common ground bus throughout and grounds to the motor in two places (redundancy) and then motor to battery. Aluminum is not as good a conductor as copper but it still conducts very well. In fact AL is used for electrical conductors where light weight is key.

Cheers :)

[68problemchild]

3 grounds did not do it for me. What worked, Heavy gauge grounds:
1 ground to each head (Driver Rear/Pass front)
1 ground to front of lower motor
1 ground sub frame
1 ground body

All joined on Batt neg terminal. Check the injector voltage while cranking for each bank, no or spotty voltage = insuff ground. You must have a ground to each head.

[joecar]

Are all the ECM ground pins connected to ground...?

[Taz]

Just read post #39 ... that's quite the communications route ... may just stick with Gen III swaps !!

Regards,
Taz

[mbsurfersc]

I could see where the ground things may be a problem, but this is a 2009 Escalade were talking about. Everything in the engine harness is 100 percent factory including the E38. The only difference is instead of a t43 it now has a t42.

I think our problem is within the can bus communications. I'm going to look over the schematics now and double check the wiring in of the t42

[Taz]

Agree .... problem seems to have started when the T42 was installed.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Hey don't give up. It can be done. I am living proof!

Now on my 07 escalade I had two full separate harnesses, one for bat-alt-grounds, one for the ECM, sensors and controls.

In either case, for me it was all in the injector voltage which was spotty on the logs when cranking. Its either there all the time or its not. In my case the grounded bank was firing and the ungrounded bank was not.

Again, I know very little so if your problem is elsewhere, that is cool. Just want to make sure you don't spend a month on it like I did only to find it was not a ECM issue at all.

Good luck!!!

[mbsurfersc]

Well after battling this thing for a while yesterday, bombing one E38, and banging our heads against the wall, we came to the conclusion of running a standalone transmission controller. I purchased a new E38 and flashed it with a 2010 Manual cal and it fired right up, no lights on the dash, everything fully functional.

I really do appreciate everyone's input and help through all of this! I will let you know how this thing does when it comes time to make power. Its a pretty bad ass setup:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f154/mbsurfersc/lade.jpg


THANKS AGAIN GUYS