First drive L92 with VVT and 4L70E LOG

[68problemchild]

Hey guys. Newbie here. This is the first real drive with an L92 with VVT and a 4L70E tranny.

Let me know what you think can be done. I am sure alot of very basic things are way out of wack so please let me know.

Thank you!!!

9209

[nathans1987]

post the tune?

[68problemchild]

Here you go. Thanks!

[joecar]

You can remove some of the pids that are static or show no value.

Need an AFR pid, like whichever one is correct for your ECM.

RHS front O2 sensor (B2S1) is not right.

Both O2 sensors are not right, LTFT's are pegging positive.

[68problemchild]

RHS front is LC-1.

Does this mean they are working but hooked up wrong or not working at all?

Will log some AFR pids. Can you pick a couple? For E38 all I am seeing is "AFM inhibit reasons". PLease let me know of anything/other pids else needed/suggested.

Also, is it possible the harness is looking for the LC-1 on drivers side and NBand on the pass side?

If I just do both Nbands on each side, would the AFR work?

Looks like one bank fuel trim is 3% and the other is 50%+. May be the stock Nband is working but the LC-1 (pass bank 50%+) is not.

thanks.

[joecar]

The right front (B2S1) O2 sensor voltage HO2S21 is hovering at 50 mV... it should be swinging like the other one... if it's not, then do this:
use the LM Programmer software to set the LC-1 narrow band channel to 2.75V and see if this shows up on HO2S21.

(you have to re-power the LC-1 after programming it)

[joecar]

I see LONGFT1/2 both at 24%.

[joecar]

Include these in your logs:
E38.AFRAIO_DMA
E38.APCYL_DMA
MAF
MAP
VSS
RPM
APP
TP
IAT
ECT
LONGFT1/2
SHRTFT1/2
HO2Sx1
SPARKADV
KR
KNKRET

[nathans1987]

are you in high altitude? your map max is 85? if it is the ls3 bosh type map sensor on your engine you need to correct the scale.

[68problemchild]

Yes Nathans its the Bosch sensor. What should the map max be set to? I am in humid SW Florida.

Thanks!!!!!

[joecar]

With key on engine off, MAP sensor should read same as barometric pressure (100kPa at sea level).

[68problemchild]

9227

KPA is at 85 on start. Any tips on editing to 100? I see map subheading under "airflow."


Updated tune.

[68problemchild]

Shouldnt catylitic converter protection be set to "off"?

[joecar]

I'm not sure about your NBO2.

Looking at your tune B2101 (under Engine Sensors -> Parameters) is set for 1-bar MAP sensor, is this what you have...?

Yes, disable cat protection.

[68problemchild]

B2103, B2104, B2105 should be changed if I go 2 bar 188 on B2101 yes?

Thanks Joe car.

[joecar]

B2103, B2104, B2105 should be changed if I go 2 bar 188 on B2101 yes?

Thanks Joe car.Yes, correct.

[joecar]

See your other thread: showthread.php?14279-Wiring-L92-with-O2-sensors (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14279-Wiring-L92-with-O2-sensors)

12591290 is a 2-bar or 3-bar sensor, I don't know which one.

[nathans1987]

Yes Nathans its the Bosch sensor. What should the map max be set to? I am in humid SW Florida.

Thanks!!!!!

B2101 should be 128.125000 and B2103 should be -0.312500 if its the same as the ls3 which i would say it would be because i was getting similar reading to you with your stock settings. It seems like they are a 1.5 bar sensor? not sure strange.

[68problemchild]

Nathans1987, Thanks man.

In this version, I turned off the CAT protection.
Updated MAP to the above and have MAP at 102 before start so much closer. Still a little high though.
Joe Car, Geoff pulled the injector flow rates from a 2010 Camaro LS3, with, I hope the same MAP I have.

Anyways, seems much smoother now, less eye tearing from the gas smell.

I will work on reintalling LC-1 today.

Thanks very much guys. Here is new log with your changes.

[68problemchild]

Nathans, is your delco MAP same as mine? ACDELCO 12591290?

[68problemchild]

Stomping on it out of the gas station. I had to let up, I got scared!

PS, I think I let up about 4800 rpm. Still some left.

[joecar]

Ok, MAP seems to be correct now.

Ok, NBO2's seem to be working...

LTFT's are pegging positive meaning your MAF and/or VE are low.

Do you have a pic of the MAF plumbing...?

[joecar]

Remove the pids O2S11, O2S21, and add AIRPERSEC, KR, TCCMODE, GEAR.

Also add CALC.CYLAIR.

[joecar]

11-80mph in 5.5 seconds :cheers:

[68problemchild]

Awesome. Joecar, I dont see the tccmode, kr or calcylair pids? Are they called something else for E38's?

Its possible my MAF is wrong. Its not the "chip" type that I think was stock but Geoff suggested the wire maf as its easier supposedly to tune.
2007 Corvette MAF 15904068

Here is a photo:



Thank you all. This is coming together. So much fun to be driving rather than wrenching after a year.

PS throttle % seems to be 65 when its on the floor. Weird.

[gmh308]

Its possible my MAF is wrong. Its not the "chip" type that I think was stock but Geoff suggested the wire maf as its easier supposedly to tune.
2007 Corvette MAF 15904068

Thank you all. This is coming together. So much fun to be driving rather than wrenching after a year.

PS throttle % seems to be 65 when its on the floor. Weird.

Yes thats an LS1/early LS2 style MAF. Your tune is probably curved for a current truck/G8 MAF (06 onwards). If you want to run that MAF then best to find a tune for an 06/07 Vette and drop the MAF datapoints into your tune.

Re your question on LS1Tech regarding MAP sensor...where did that MAP sensor come from? Looking at the bolt type retention method it certainly looks like an 08+ MAP sensor.

If it is then:

{B2101} MAP Sensor Scaler 128.125
{B2103} MAP Sensor Offset -0.3125
{B2104} MAP Default for Throttle DTC 92
{B2105} MAP Sample Rate Slow

(I had an '08 tune open in front of me... :) )

You may need to disable hi or low volts test in the tune. We dont have access to the parameters that calibrate the MAP diagnostics so disabling may be necessary if MAP DTC's pop. :)

But it could be a 3 bar MAP as well so you would need Vette ZR1 LS9 or Cadi CTS-V LSA blown tune parameters in that case: www.holdencrazy.com.

If you want to check what it is from exactly call your local dealer parts counter and ask them what the part number comes from.

[68problemchild]

That is the map from a 2010 LS3 Camaro, I think. The log above reflects those settings. It works pretty well but its not at 100 kpa at start its 102.

I think I should get the new LS3 chip maf and put in the stock LS3 Camaro maf tune.

I think this LS3 VVT is gonna be a screamer when you guys are done with it.

When done, will start tweaking the VVT.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the help.

Its a riot.

[gmh308]

That is the map from a 2010 LS3 Camaro, I think. The log above reflects those settings. It works pretty well but its not at 100 kpa at start its 102.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the help.

Its a riot.

Yes the MAP can read even up to 103 or 104 at key on. To really understand whether it is reading right check your local weather observations/reports and see what the barometer is.

The GM blade MAF is fine but using a tube MAF is easier to start with as calibration does not depend on the many variations on ducting that the blade MAF can be used in.

Cheers.

[68problemchild]

Thanks for all the help. You guys rock.

PS is that GM Holden? The only LS3 using a 4L70E holden! So Christmas came early.

I don't know how many people told me this could not be done.

"It will never work"

"you will never tune it"

"Just put in a stock LS3 cam and throw away the VVT"

Thanks for your support.

[joecar]

Ian, do you think that MAF is ok so close to the the conical filter...?

[gmh308]

Ian, do you think that MAF is ok so close to the the conical filter...?

For the blade MAF Joe GM recommend 10" from the throttle blade and at least 3" from the end of a 4" tube. That's about where Vette's run their blade MAF's in the OTR duct. With the tube MAF's I would guess that if it has a screen it will probably be OK with the filter as is. Being that close to the TB is what GM steers away from so the airflow has a chance to stabilise after the MAF. Worth checking via logging and seeing if it is noisy.

Be really interesting to see how this conversion runs with the VVT operating. :)

[68problemchild]

Joe car sorry, cannot locate all the pids you listed.
Gear OK
AIRPERSEC OK
KR OK

TCCMODE CALC.CYLAIR cannot locate.

[joecar]

Click on the column heading "Caption", then click again on it (sorts alphabetically on this column)... look down this column til you see those pids.

[68problemchild]

Sorry, in my explorer under E38 t42, it goes from BURSTKNK_M to CAMCNT using the available pids for E38 and T42. No calcyair.

Down to t's and its TCCCCC TO TCCECC then to TCCS but no "TCCMODE". Perhaps if you give me the description name for those two pids.


Thanks much for the help. Sorry newbie here.

[joecar]

I see, there's no TCCMODE for T42... I'll see if I can find out about it.


AIRPERSEC, KR, GEAR are there.

CALC.CYLAIR is added later when viewing the log from the scantool.

No worries, no need to be sorry :)

[68problemchild]

A17410152 This is a cardone number for the MAF. Not the one in my car. Looks like a mid year change.

Should I get this maf ? Not sure if this is my problem.

Here is the latest short log with new pids

I also wonder since tuner used the 2010 Camaro intake and injectors data, maybe he used the MAF too which I think is a chip maf.




1. PS, where can I disable high and low volts in the test tune per GM308's suggestion?
2. Any new pids I should add?

[gmh308]

A17410152 This is a cardone number for the MAF. Not the one in my car. Looks like a mid year change.

Should I get this maf ? Not sure if this is my problem.

Here is the latest short log with new pids

I also wonder since tuner used the 2010 Camaro intake and injectors data, maybe he used the MAF too which I think is a chip maf.




1. PS, where can I disable high and low volts in the test tune per GM308's suggestion?
2. Any new pids I should add?

Download a Camaro tune from HoldenCrazy.com and check the MAF curve against yours. Also get an 05 Vette tune and check yours against that. Then you will know which one you are probably closest to. Also check your IAT (intake air temp) at cold start and see if it is near ambient temp. This will tell you if the IAT sensor in the MAF is reading correctly or not.

MAP Test for enable/disable for hi/lo are..............in MAP diagnostics. :)

[68problemchild]

Will do. Thanks so much for the info!

[InTruckDesign]

Weird that you do not have Tccmode pid, my E38/T42 has it.

[68problemchild]

C0401
C0402 are both disabled.

Maf numbers match the escalade maf perfect. But I put in a 2007 Corvette maf, so I matched numbers according to that maf. Kind of. Could not cut and paste the table AND tags. Lets see how she runs...

Will add and test IAT

[68problemchild]

What is the Tccmode description? Maybe its anacronym is something else in my version.

[Taz]

If you're trying to log when the TCC is locked / unlocked ... in the E38 I believe it is "Torque Converter Clutch Status" - PID is GM.TCCS


Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

There is also "TCC Mode" in the E38 ... PID is GM.TCCMODE

Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

"Air Mass Per Cylinder" in the E38 ... PID is CALC.CYLAIR

In the Scan Tool in the PID screen (F8) it displays "PID file:" near the middle of the screen .... open "E38 ECM Metric.pid" ... this should load the PIDs you are looking for.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Thanks Taz. Will update those pids.

In the meantime, the new MAF settings seems to tone down the LTFT. What should these read optimally, 0?


Roger that, TCCS got it.

[gmh308]

Ross/Paul have kindly added for E38 Air Per Cyl the APCYL_M PID in "Scan and Tune". This is the actual real time GM ECM value for Air Per Cylinder taken directly out of the ECM operating memory. So you can use that one if you wish vs the externally calculated PID. Dont be fooled by the incorrect description though. :)



In the meantime, the new MAF settings seems to tone down the LTFT. What should these read optimally, 0?



LTFT of zero indicates that all is well for regular gas at 14.7:1, but it rarely ever stays at zero unless you use exactly the same fuel all the time. +/- 5% is ok, and even +/- 10% swing over time is nothing to worry (IMHO) about if it is simply due to different fuels or swinging in and out of LTFT cells that have not stabilised due to very little time in that zone/cell. The ECM will cry lean or rich once you get to +25% / -20% normally. :)

Cheers, Ian

[68problemchild]

Thank you all very much. Newbie here had two problems. First, I was only looking at Pids in Scan and tune for loading onto V2. Secondly, in live scan 7.5, I had the check box in the upper left for "supported" pids checked.

Now they are all selected.

TCCmode and Gear have a red X in them. I am sure this is something basic.

In either case I have the requested pids loaded into V2 for recording.

Anyways, I appreciate all the effort. I am learning a ton and love this.

Did everyone here come from GM? How do you guys know all this stuff?

[Taz]

When you connect the Scan Tool to the PCM it validates the PIDs - the red "X" simply means the PIDs have not yet been validated. Take a look at the Scan Tool User Manual p.73 to about p. 106 - may make this process easier to understand, and apply.


Regards,
Taz

[gmh308]

Thank you all very much. .

Anyways, I appreciate all the effort. I am learning a ton and love this.

Did everyone here come from GM? How do you guys know all this stuff?

We just make it up! :) :) :)

Seriously though we are probably all just EFI junkies. Comes from a lot of hours of midnight oil and effort, and also a LOT of sharing/collaboration via this forum and buddies with same interests. And of course a great tool set in EFILive and great support from the EFILive team! :) And of course Joecar who very generously glues it all together!

Cheers! :cheers:

PS - And 30+ years of experience with hi po engines building/tuning etc with turbos, nitros, and EFI doesnt hurt! :)

[68problemchild]

Ok, cannot shift it, not really sure what gear its in but here you go. Remember this tranny was not made for this tune. Later in the log (since it keeps throwing me into 3-4th gear at 10 MPH), I put it in first manually and launched it. Whoaa!

Its crazy fast.....

Any ideas what do to next, please advise. Great fun.

Thanks.

There is a run to 90MPH and 5500 rpm at about frame 11000. Not sure how long this took!!!!

[Taz]

If you want - post your current ECM and TCM tunes, along with the rear differential gear ratio in the Camaro, and rear tire size and manufacturer ... will take a look and try and sort out the early shifting issue. Probably won't get to it tonight ... late evening here.

Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Two 17x8 chrome, 7 offset (4.75" backspace) front
Two 17x9.5 chrome, 7 offset (5.5" backspace)Rear
Two Hankook 235/45-ZR17
Two Hankook 275/40-ZR17

Gear 10 bolt.

Gear ratio 3.73 (I had to eyeball axle revolutions per one wheel rotation).

Current tune and tranny tune.

Thanks all. Very much appreciated.

[68problemchild]

Thanks again guys.

[Taz]

Didn't see you confirmed the gears were 3.73 not 3.42 ... will repost tunes shortly .. quick revision


Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

The tunes below are just a quick hack to get you going. Transmission should shift at a reasonable speed now – was setup for 3.42 gears – not 3.73 gears, and the tire diameter was way off. You will need to fine tune shift speeds (up & down) in each gear later.

Hopefully I didn’t mix up any upshift versus downshift speeds !!

Not sure where the trans tune came from … no VIN … the OS is not in my limited Gen IV database … guessing Trailblazer SS maybe.

Load both the engine and trans tunes below … and give it a try.

Good luck !

Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

That is awesome. I have the harmonic balancer all torn off right now because I have some horrible belt squeel with the front accessory set up. Kwik AC bracket and vintage air. Anyways, I cannot locate the problem.

I will load this. Thanks so much. I was told this engine was never mated with a 4L70E so I dont think there is any starting point. I read somewhere that the holden setup in the middle east had an L92 with 4L70e but have never seen it. I guess it would be more of a truck set up even if I found it. Should be interesting. Anything is better than hopping from first to third at 10 MPH. Seems at 5500 rpm its just ripping. Not sure what max RPM redline should be since this motor is so modded.

You will have to give me some hints of what parameters you played with so I can learn what you did.

Thanks again. You all have been great!

Did not load the 3.42. All is good. I will report back results. Great stuff. Thank you.

[Taz]

Sent you an email ... hoped you hadn't loaded the 3.42 gear tunes I posted (and quickly deleted) after I read your update indicating 3.73 gears.

To see changes to the tunes - open the trans tune or engine tune I posted in the Tune Tool - then use the "load alternative calibration for comparison" tool (under File heading at the top) to load your last previous tune.

Then click the doubled ended red arrow symbol (show summary differences). At the bottom of the screen set the button to the right of "refresh" to "show all differences".

If you double click on any of the parameters that were changed - a new window will open - can then view the current calibration, the alternate calibration, or view differences in integers or percentage.

I hope the changes work ... no guarantee ... Gen III guy !!

Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Wow. Lots of tranny changes. I appreciate all the work.

I notice in my logs, for some reason, the TP% never goes greater than say 64.7 at WOT. Will this impact all those 100% TPS setting triggers? Eg will they never be activated?

[Taz]

Gen III guy ... know its often the case that Gen IVs may not display 100% TPS when logged ... taken as "normal" by most people I believe ... not sure why.

Can't take credit for all changes to the tune ... speedo calculator made many of them.

Regards,
Taz

[ScarabEpic22]

ETC cars should see like 88% TPS at WOT, there is a PID that actually goes to 100% but I cant remember which one it is. Wouldnt be surprised if the TCM OS was a TBSS, I cant check it right now but it might be.

Random, how did you come about to use a Vette ECM OS and a truck TCM OS? I know this combo was never a GM factory setup in the US, but wonder if we couldnt find that Middle East setup and use that. Might be some weird comm issues between the different platforms?

And 5500rpms for WOT is low IMO, my stock LS2 + 4L70E does 6500 easily but it is common to drop it down to 6200-6300rpms once you start making power (in a TBSS, no idea what the Vette/car guys do).

[68problemchild]

Good input. WOT is not max at 5600, its just where I got so afraid of the thing I had to let up!

I mated the 4L70E to the L92 so it could take the power, and from what the guys at S&P said, the 4l70E can "talk to" the L92 via the 15 wire connector, versus 12 (?) wire connector for lessor tranny. Not really sure about this but I listened. That coulped with the VVT, cam phaser limiter, and the Pat G custom cam, make this a pretty unusual set up.

[68problemchild]

Tried the tranny tune. Gets to third and just wont back out of it, even at 650 rpm.


Unrelated, short and long term fuel issues still seem the same, around 1400 rpm are almost 50%. Not sure if this is the car still "learning".
This was a short trip since my brakes are jacked up. Any ideas? I am hoping this does not have to do with the unique nature of the mating of this motor and tranny.

Thanks!

[gmh308]

Tried the tranny tune. Gets to third and just wont back out of it, even at 650 rpm.


Unrelated, short and long term fuel issues still seem the same, around 1400 rpm are almost 50%. Not sure if this is the car still "learning".
This was a short trip since my brakes are jacked up. Any ideas? I am hoping this does not have to do with the unique nature of the mating of this motor and tranny.

Thanks!

You still have that old MAF on there right? IAT is 80+ degrees C. Thats like 160F. Unless you DO HAVE intake air that hot, you have the wrong IAT sensor calibration.

If the MAF is out it will also cause trim calcs like you are getting. If the trims are that positive then the MAF is very low in those areas. (30-40%). (or you are running E85 in the tank... :) )

The O2 voltages are cycling up and down reasonably normally though it looks like you may have one slow sensor. Difficult to say until your trims are in line.

That may also be contributing to you trans shift challenges.

Dont know that S&P would be 100% on what they say. Have seen them cause issues with ECM's and TCM's and display a blank look when there are problems.

15 wire connector? 12 wire connector? Lessor tranny? Mean what?

To save myself some time...has it been established that the L92 does come with A4 trans in one platform or another? I dont recall whether this was concluded.

Cheerz!

[68problemchild]

Thank you, as always, for the help. I did notice my intake filter is just behind my radiator fan which is cranking pretty hot. I think I will try pulling the elbow I have. If that does not fly its back to hunting the right table for the maf. Basically when I ran the maf id model #, it came up with 2007 Camaro. So that is the table I pulled from. I will also recheck IAT when engine is cool.

No idea on the tranny L92 combo. You would think some pickup would have had it. I am hoping for a GM historian to chime in.

[gmh308]

Looks like you are SOL bro. L92's never came with an A4.

Pure and simple there are ECM <> TCM message components that are different between A4 & A6 setups. Yes they talk the same language but one has more words than the other like "I am shifting from 4th to 5th now"........ for example. :) Luckily in EFILive, thanks to Ross and Paul, EFILive can tell us what trans a calibration is for.

Google and GM are your friend here bro...to quote X Files...the truth is out there:

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2007/07truck.htm etc.

L92 runs an A6 only.

Same answer for 08 & 09.

DL this calibration, do your localisation and flash it in and see how it runs the A4.

http://www.holdencrazy.com/EFILive/TuneFileRepository/Stock/Chevrolet/2007%20Chevrolet%20Silverado%20Truck%20Automatic%2 0L76%206.0%20Litre%20(12614088).tun

Your MAF being so close to the TB may be suffering from too much disrupted airflow.

2007 Camaro ? Maybe you mean Vette :) . GM info lists two different MAF's for 07 Vettes. This would be the outgoing LS2 MAF and incoming later MAF no doubt. While they are similar at higher airflows they differ considerably at very low airflows. FYI anyways. :)

[Taz]

Sorry to hear things didn't work - sounds like an OS communications issue. Ian always seems to have a "work around". Attached is the engine tune Ian referred you to - setup with the gear / tire / speedometer changes to work with the last transmission calibration I posted. I also copied over the VATS patch and DTC / MIL / Tach settings for you.

Once again, good luck !

Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Thanks guys. Before I plug in new tunes, I still have a maf issue. Cold temp IAT is 110F and its 80F in my garage. Still searching for right parameters.

[Taz]

The above tune is a stock L76 - other than the previously mentioned adjustments - I also changed the cylinder volume from 6.0 L to 6.2 L.

I would flash that tune in (full reflash) and then revisit the IAT & MAF issues after loading the "stock" parameters - gives you a "clean sheet" to begin tuning.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

9288

Quick log from new tune. IAT coming in at 84F which is about right. Fuel trims seem less "pinned". Did not drive it yet. No brakes currently.

[Taz]

Good beginning … cautiously optimistic !

Trying to remember … are you using the L76 intake manifold and injectors (or am I confused with another thread !).

Use this engine tune (L76) with the transmission tune I posted.

Once you’re able to take it for a short drive - confirm appropriate (in general terms) transmission operation. No sense tuning further until OS communication is occurring.

After you get that far, if the transmission seems to be working correctly – you can then build your own “custom tune” to work with the aftermarket camshaft.


Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

Took a quick look at the log … IAT and MAP look OK. Alternator is charging.
Do you have a gear position / park neutral switch on the transmission ?
Is this wired into your harness ?

Was trying to determine if gear position was actually being communicated …

So far, so good …..


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Intake and injectors are from a 2010 Camaro LS3.
Yes, electrical gear position switch is present.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41575483@N07/4445507815/


Then backup "lamp" output from the harness is not connected but the rest of it is. this lamp turns on from the manual horse shoe shifter.

Thanks will try recent post.

[68problemchild]

Taz, will this truck tune allow me to adjust the VVT later?

[Taz]

The L76 came with AFM (Active Fuel Management), or “displacement on demand” technology, as well as VVT (Variable Valve Timing).

Both of these options are in the truck tune Ian had suggested - that you are now customizing.

Regards,
Taz

[gmh308]

Is that a Tasmanian Devil in your avatar? :)

[gmh308]

That is the map from a 2010 LS3 Camaro, I think. The log above reflects those settings. It works pretty well but its not at 100 kpa at start its 102.

I think I should get the new LS3 chip maf and put in the stock LS3 Camaro maf tune.

I think this LS3 VVT is gonna be a screamer when you guys are done with it.

When done, will start tweaking the VVT.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the help.

Its a riot.

FYI - weather map example of why MAP sensors see above 100kpa at key on and how the local weather observations can be used to see how accurate MAP sensor/readout is.

High pressure system on the map is at 1030HPa. That is 103.0kpa. So if your car is where that high pressure centre is then you should probably see 103kpa. Have seen highs of 104kpa.

Also if you have a high of say 100kpa, and are in a low lying area on a really cool still cloudless night you can also see higher than 100kpa.

Trust this makes sense. :)




9309

[Taz]

Yes ... Tasmanian Devil from looney tunes era ... nickname is decades old now ... not sure it's still accurate !! Slowing down a little these days ...


Regards,
Taz

[gmh308]

Yes ... Tasmanian Devil from looney tunes era ... nickname is decades old now ... not sure it's still accurate !! Slowing down a little these days ...


Regards,
Taz

LOL. :) So someone gave you the nickname based on your behavior being similar to the dynamo like Tassy Devil made world famous on Loony Tune?

Thought it would be that or you really do come from Tassy. (Australia's south island) :) complete with scar :).

Pity the real Tassy Devil/Tiger is an endangered species. :(

[68problemchild]

Did a full flash of the new tune. Car would not start. Went back to an old tune without the Silverado operating system, did full reflash, started. Put above tune back in but kept the original operating system. It runs.

[68problemchild]

Here is the latest.

Taz, this is your stock tune.

So for review,at Key, I am shooting for:

MAP at 100 roughly
IAT at ambient temp

How about MAF?

Thanks guys.

[Taz]

IAT looks accurate (depending on the temps in sunny Florida !) MAP looked like it hit 85 kPa at start up / shut down.

Alternator is not charging below 850 RPM (think PCM voltage dipped to 9 volts at one point) – causing voltage issues for the O2 sensors – they appeared to be switching fine when receiving at least 11.5 volts.

Looked like it was idling around 650 RPM (stock) – probably not well ! Is the idle quality appreciably different from the custom L92 tune you were using ?

Hopefully the car is mobile shortly – be nice to know if the ECM / TCM are on “speaking” terms now – meaning you can start tuning.

Hard for me to comment on the MAF at this point. If the ECM & TCM tunes are compatible, then I would begin by tuning the VE (VVE in Gen IV speak). Followed by tuning the MAF. Then the idle. Then repeating all of the above tuning procedures several more times !

I’m the Gen III guy – never tuned a Gen IV – so you're starting to get beyond my practical experience – into theoretical only.

Swingtan has great VVE tutorial … attached below. Helps to read it many times, and make notes as you go.

Get those brakes working ……


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

New battery seemed to help.

Also, MAP photo in previous post (2010 LS3 Camaro tune used)

B2101 128.125000

B2103 -0.3123500

Should I change these? Not sure if MAP is something that needs to be "calibrated" or if you can plug in a stock chart to a stock MAP.

Is MAF at 85 an issue?

Local forcast when tune was taken:

Current conditions as of 5:53 PM EDT
Partly Cloudy
Temp: 80 °F
Feels Like:87 °F
Barometer:29.93 in and steady
Humidity:85 %
Visibility:10 mi
Dewpoint:75 °F
Wind:CALM
Sunrise:7:32 AM
Sunset:6:49 PM

As always, thanks guys. New brake booster on order. I hope that is the brake problem.

Swingtan's article is awesome.

[Taz]

MAP reads pressure - atmospheric pressure when the engine is not running - intake manifold pressure when the engine is running ... believe 100 kPa is generally thought of as "standard" pressure at sea level. You listed your barometric pressure at the time of the post as 29.93 inches of Mercury ... multiply by 3.3864 to get kPa ... equals 101.3 kPa ... so at that point in time, that should have been your MAP reading - key "on" with the engine off (not running).

Now you know how to check it ... based on an accurate barometer mounted on your garage wall !!


Regards,
Taz

[joecar]

What altitude are you at...?

At sea level, BARO is close to 101 kPa.
At 7000 ft, BARO is something like 85 kPa.

[gmh308]

What altitude are you at...?

At sea level, BARO is close to 101 kPa.
At 7000 ft, BARO is something like 85 kPa.

Good point Joe. Normally the observed baro from the weather guys is corrected to sea level baro.

[Taz]

This thread is getting long …had forgotten some of the progress previously made with L92 tune.

With the assistance of Ian and Joecar, I believe you had set:

B2101 MAP Sensor Scaler: 128.125
B2103 MAP Sensor Offset: -0.3125
B2104 MAP Default for Throttle DTC: 92
B2105 MAP Sample Rate: Slow

You had then reported MAP at 100 kPa to 102 kPa - key “on” prior to start up.

The original L76 parameters were:

B2101 MAP Sensor Scaler: 94.4297
B2103 MAP Sensor Offset: 10.34
B2104 MAP Default for Throttle DTC: 92
B2105 MAP Sample Rate: Slow

Check these parameters in the current L76 tune - update to the previously used values. You had the MAP close before.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

I am at sea level / beach accross the street...

Thanks guys. I will try and reinstall the wide band for another shot.

[68problemchild]

OK, so map at 85 seemed to be it hitting the voltage cutoff's, per GM308. Turned those off and I have a tune at roughly ambient air temp and 101Map.

Alt does not appear to be charging but I am trying to return the original alt to the car. Hopefully this will help.

I think if we can turn the idle up a bit, we may have a workable base tune. No brakes yet. Booster on order.

Thanks guys!

[Taz]

Good job on the MAP … 101 kPa is probably pretty close - depending on the weather in Florida at the time of the log.

Regarding the alternator not charging … see your previous thread

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14440-First-tune-record-help-a-newbie

In posts #53 and #62 Ian had mentioned some truck tunes not charging at idle, or delaying in charging at idle. May want to take him up on his offer to assist – via a PM request.

Initially increasing the idle values with a larger cam is often necessary until you have a chance to fully customize the tune. After the tuning process is complete the idle can usually be reduced (at least a little) to achieve a more “muscle car” sound.

For now, in B1821 select all values, then add 250 RPM. That should stabilize the idle.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Thanks Taz. Good call the on post #53. Memory failing! Did the PM to GM308. Did the +250 and will test tomorrow.

Should I do some basik tweek on the LS3 injectors/intake I put in the from the from the 2010 Camaro? Would they differ from the truck injectors/intake?

I really appreciate all the effort. Great stuff!

[Taz]

Took a look at B4001 (Injector Flow Base) on a 2010 Camaro tune, and the modified L92 tune you had started with - these values are the same.

So yes, good idea to copy B4001 from your L92 tune into the L76 tune that you are now using. Would hold off on copying over more data - until you’re “up and running” - and have the opportunity to use the process (probably multiple times !) described in Swingtan’s VVE Adjustment Tutorial to calibrate VE and MAF values.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

No mods to B1213 and B1214 when I do this?

Thanks Taz!!

[Taz]

B1213 and B1214 already appear to be identical - in the old L92 tune and the new L76 tune. These values are also the same in a 2010 Camaro tune.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

OK put in Camaro injector flow base and it pinned the fuel trims short and long.

BUT, added Just taz idle +250 AND LOOK AT THE FUEL TRIMS!!!!!!!

Dude you absolutely rock!!!!

[68problemchild]

This is the workable tune!!

9364

[joecar]

Good job :cheers: Thanks for keeping us upated.

[Taz]

Glad to hear the idle quality responded to the changes. This puts your idle at normal operating temperature at 800 RPM (stock was 550 RPM). Until you have the opportunity to build a custom tune, the engine stalling may become one of your greatest frustrations. If needed, you could increase the idle RPM (all) another 150 RPMs. Again, if needed, apply increases in 50 RPM increments, until the engine idles in the manner you wish.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

9367

Thanks guys. Ians alt fix works!

I should be driving next week and hopefully can start tuning once I get brake booster in and check the gear change.

Trims seem to be cooperating.

I would like to fix/ DTC code P0645 A/C clucth relay control circuit since my vintage air is not routed to the ECM. Its stand alone. Anyone know how to shut this off?

Thanks!

Making progress!!!!

[Taz]

Re: P0645

Open Engine Diagnostics folder … then DTC type … change P0645 from “Non Emissions” to “Not Reported”.

In the DTC MIL parameters P0645 is already set to “No MIL”.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Unrelated, this car has dual springs which were changed in with the cam. I read an LS1 tech post that GM supposedly dynomited a few of these VVT motors with duals. Originals were single behive. I also put in the VVT cam limiter when I changed the cam.

Do you guys think there is any truth to this?

Photo of the duals:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41575483@N07/4831944451/

[68problemchild]

Well, back to the drawing board. Got the brakes fixed and went up the street. No tranny. Stalled. Basically hops into 3rd and stays there.

Where to go now?

Should I be looking at a new 6L80E tranny? Ugh, no money for that.

Log says car was going 70mph, it was more like 20mph. Not sure what this means.

[gmh308]

Well, back to the drawing board. Got the brakes fixed and went up the street. No tranny. Stalled. Basically hops into 3rd and stays there.

Where to go now?

Should I be looking at a new 6L80E tranny? Ugh, no money for that.

Log says car was going 70mph, it was more like 20mph. Not sure what this means.

What is the trans tune you have in the TCM?

[68problemchild]

Its the one Taz put up in Post 55. So I think its the silverado tranny tune you suggested ? Its that or my original tranny tune modded wth 3.73 gearing and tire changes. Not sure.

As an aside, I never could put in the operating system that went with that tune, eg a full reflash, so its still original 2007 operating system with Taz tunes in post 55.

[Taz]

The trans tune is the one you originally had - I just updated the speedometer portion with your gear and tire info - my apologies if I made an error that is causing the current issues.

Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

Not the outcome we were all hoping for. You’re not beat yet. The L76 tune you are using IS compatible with a 4L60 / 4L65 / 4L70 transmission.

OK … couple things come to mind. When you tried the “full flash” of the ECM with the L76 tune, the engine wouldn’t start, so you ended up doing a “calibration only” flash - to get you to where you are now. Gen III guy – not sure about Gen IVs – wondering if some of the L92 / 6L80 tune is still “resident” in the ECM and causing communication issues with the 4L70.

Also, the TCM tune is an unknown - potential compatibility issues there.

Lastly, the wiring harness itself may not be allowing appropriate (or expected) communications between the ECM and TCM.

You will require the assistance of forum members with Gen IV experience - I do not have.

If your TCM tune turns out to be the problem - there appear to be a “matching” pair of ECM (OS 12617631) and TCM (OS 24239927) tunes on the Holdencrazy site - for a 2008 Sierra with an L76 and 4L70. Not sure is these are compatible with your current ECM and TCM.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Cool. Thanks Taz. This is not your mod that is a problem, its just doing the same thing it did before your input. Sounds like it still needs a truck tranny tune.

I appreciate all the help!

[gmh308]

Its the one Taz put up in Post 55. So I think its the silverado tranny tune you suggested ? Its that or my original tranny tune modded wth 3.73 gearing and tire changes. Not sure.

As an aside, I never could put in the operating system that went with that tune, eg a full reflash, so its still original 2007 operating system with Taz tunes in post 55.

Original 12614088 OS with Trans = 6L80E or the tune with VIN 3GCEK13YX7G000000 Trans = 4L65E (etc) ?

What is VIN 3GCEK13YX7G000000 from?

[68problemchild]

I will ask the original author and get back.

Thanks for your patience.

[Sid447]

Ian (gmh308)

I've not looked at the tranny tune, just read briskly through the thread. There are genuine untouched (no glitches, no alterations) T42 (4L65/70) calibrations that were originally working with L98's here in the M-E available if you think they might be more suitable for this conversion.

EDIT: Having nothing better to do (on SAR standby) I did look at the txmsn file, it's a LOT different and has some odd calibrations in it; would it be better starting off with a clean transcal?

[gmh308]

Ian (gmh308)

I've not looked at the tranny tune, just read briskly through the thread. There are genuine untouched (no glitches, no alterations) T42 (4L65/70) calibrations that were originally working with L98's here in the M-E available if you think they might be more suitable for this conversion.

EDIT: Having nothing better to do (on SAR standby) I did look at the txmsn file, it's a LOT different and has some odd calibrations in it; would it be better starting off with a clean transcal?

Hi Sid (S),

Yes one of your ME sourced trans cals might be worth a try, though if the right VIN details can be found that may help track down the right TCM tune for the engine.

Happy SAR'ing.... :). No loops and rolls...

Cheers, Ian

[Taz]

VINs


The original L92 ECM tune:

1GYFK63857R379845
OS 12614088
2007 Escalade


TCM tune:

VIN unknown
this is the only TCM tune used to date


Current L76 tune:

3GCEK13YX7G000000
OS 12614088
2007 Chev full size truck
from Holdencrazy site
had been suggested as a possible alternative to the originally used L92 tune - to promote communication between the ECM and TCM


Alternatively ….


The “matched” pair of 2008 L76 ECM / TCM tunes on the Holdencrazy site:

ECM (OS 12617631) - VIN 1GTEK19Y38Z000000
TCM (OS 24239927) - VIN 1GTEK19Y38Z000000

Not sure is these are compatible with the current ECM and TCM.


Regards,
Taz

[Sid447]

Hi Taz,

I'm unsure of quite a few of the tune files in holdencrazy. The ones you've mentioned may well be untouched factory tune files. Though from experience I've come across quite a few that aren't, so am wary of using any of them with confidence.
I do know that all of the files marked (middle east) are 100% untouched stock files. The Middle East version of the Holden Commodore (aka Chevrolet Lumina SS here) for model years 2007 and 2008 came with the 6.0 L98 V8 (similar to L76 but without DOD) and they were fitted with a 4L65E (with T42 controller).
I personally took these files from cars here, can vouch for them and know they worked fine in the stock cars. The original files I keep differ only inasmuch as the VIN numbers have been removed in the holden crazy copies.
They might be worth trying as the TCM for the OP I looked at didn't have what I thought were passenger car parameters in it.

[68problemchild]

MIddle east 12612381 2007 auto Commodore = 6.0 L98 w 4L70E
Middle east 24238857 2007 auto Commodore = tranny but not sure if its 4 speed.

1. Would these be a good starting point?
2. Will they brick my ECM with the diff operating system?
My original motor = 2007 Escalade L92.

Thanks guys!

[Taz]

Hello Sid447,

Thank you for pointing us toward some known “untouched” tunes of potential compatibility. You’ve been busy while “overseas” !!

As you can tell from reading this thread, my comfort zone is Gen III - not Gen IV. Hopefully some of our resident Gen IV experts will be able to figure out the ECM / TCM communication issue.

At this point I’m “just along for the ride” - and often learning new things as we progress.

Thanks again ……

Regards,
Taz

[gmh308]

MIddle east 12612381 2007 auto Commodore = 6.0 L98 w 4L70E
Middle east 24238857 2007 auto Commodore = tranny but not sure if its 4 speed.

1. Would these be a good starting point?
2. Will they brick my ECM with the diff operating system?
My original motor = 2007 Escalade L92.

Thanks guys!

Neither will (should) brick your ECM. They are 2007 files like the OS being replaced. They will require a full flash each.

Also these two posted by Taz should achieve similar as well.

ECM (OS 12617631) - VIN 1GTEK19Y38Z000000
TCM (OS 24239927) - VIN 1GTEK19Y38Z000000

Though VATS will be simpler on Sid's files. Alternator fix required on both.

The 12617631 will make the VIN look odd but this is easily fixed by re writing the VIN, and keep your fingers crossed that the throttle calibrations are compatible with what is in your ECM.

Trucks with the 3GCEK13YX7G000000 VIN and OS 12614088 seem to be rare as rocking horse doo doo.

Never looked deeply into but it looks like VVT is only available with A6 trans's. Possibly due simply to GM marketing decisions or the fact that the A6's have a slipping TCC which smoothens out driveline vibrations that are definately there with AFM and possibly also with VVT if there are chassis/powetrain harmonics involved.


Cheers.

[68problemchild]

Thanks guys. Neither of the truck tunes above will flash. It says they are incompatible with the operating system and wont take the flash. This applies to both the engine and tranny, full or partial flash.

Middle east holden tunes wont start.

Is it possible to have the current ECM and TCM controllers operate separately?
Or I read the turbo escalade guy used a stand alone tranny controller. Is this possible?

Ideas?

Thanks for all your patience.

[gmh308]

Thanks guys. Neither of the truck tunes above will flash. It says they are incompatible with the operating system and wont take the flash. This applies to both the engine and tranny, full or partial flash.

Middle east holden tunes wont flash.

Is it possible to have the current ECM and TCM controllers operate separately?
Or I read the turbo escalade guy used a stand alone tranny controller. Is this possible?

Ideas?

Thanks for all your patience.

No problemo. You need to do a "Full Flash"on ECM and TCM. This writes the different operating system as well as the calibration. This is the right most of the three read/write toolbar icons - Left most is read, middle is write calibration only, right is Full Flash - Though the words "Full Flash" aren't used. It says write "Operating System and Calibration".

Hope this makes sense.

[Taz]

OS Compatibility

ECM OS 12614088 - ”original” L92 and L76 tunes (both 2007).

ECM OS 12612381 - Holden L98 tune (2007).

These two OS are listed as being compatible - that is they can be flashed (full flash) into the same ECM (in this case a 2007 E38).

ECM OS 12617631 - L76 tune (2008). This tune is not in the same “column” as the other tunes in the attached *.pdf (OS Compatibility document) - but may still be compatible with your ECM - it’s just deemed to be “use at your own risk” as a precautionary measure.

Therefore, the 2007 L92, L76, and L98 tunes should all flash into your ECM. I recall when you first tried the 2007 L76 tune, you had a problem getting the “full flash” to take - and you ended up doing a “calibration only” flash.

Without a successful full flash - some of the original L92 tune will probably remain resident in the ECM - and communication issues with the T42 TCM (4L70) will continue - as the ECM is attempting to communicate with a T43 TCM (6L80).


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Thanks guys.

I will revisit and take better notes on which will flash and which simplly resulted in no start.


On the VIN issue, not sure what to change.

I do recall seeing a starter solenoid error which I believe was a quick fix.

[Taz]

Regarding your questions ….

Changing VIN:

no changes required - making changes to the VIN is just an option when you find a tune that works (as long as the VIN itself is properly displayed)
we had been looking at the VINs, as well as the OS, to confirm / predict compatibility

What to change:

Before abandoning the current L76 tune (OS 12614088 - 2007 truck) you have, try to get a “full” flash to work. I realize you had tried this previously, and the engine wouldn’t start. Give it a try again.

Would suggest confirming the VATS settings in the L76 tune - followed by a “full flash” of the L76 tune - then try starting the engine. If the engine won’t start - follow up the full flash of the L76 tune, with a subsequent “calibration” only flash of the same L76 tune - and try starting the engine again.

If that fails (it shouldn’t), I would then suggest moving on to the 2007 Holden tune suggested by Sid (L98 ECM OS 12612381).

Not sure what the current problem is with a successful “full flash” (OS & Calibration) - both OS 12614088 & 12612381 should be compatible with your 2007 E38 ECM.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Current status:

L76 modified truck tune working with

TCM (OS 24239927) - VIN 1GTEK19Y38Z000000

It sure drives like a truck.

It will go through the gears, all 4, but hangs in 4th. It will down shift back to first at stop and go through the gears on start. I am in 4th at 20mph.

It will let me shift manually to select gears with the horse shoe shifter and stalls a ton.

Current error codes:

TCM P0787 shift / timing solenoid low
ECM P0011 intake camshaft position (CMP) system performance bank 1.
ECM P0700 TCM requested mil illumination

[Taz]

Sorry ... you and I were posting at the same time ... you got the L76 tune to work ?? If so, post current ECM and TCM tune ... speed issue might be as simple as a problem with the calculated VSS speed, and resultant shift speeds.

Please "read" tunes as they are currently in the ECM / TCM - so we're working with the same tune.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

This is still not a full reflash on the L76 engine tune. (no fat red bar)

I think if I fuss with the vats, I may get it to take the newer 2008
Sierra engine tune.

Tranny is the stock L76 Sierra 2008 full reflash.

[Taz]

OK ... you're using the 2007 L76 tune with the 2008 TCM tune ? That mix may be causing communication issues .. but you're moving in the right direction. Log looks like speed maxed out around 55 MPH, with most of the time in the 25 to 35 MPH range.


Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

OK ... given your progress, it looks like some of the problems were stemming from the original TCM tune. If I recall some of Ian's comments - the 2008 tune may have issues with the TB or other calibrations - and would use it as a last resort.

Would suggest moving to the 2007 Holden tunes Sid suggested - potentially less compatibility issues - and I had started working on them in anticipation of problems - nearly have the changes complete for your 68 Camaro.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Thanks Taz! Should I be looking for a 2007 L76 TCM tune?

[Taz]

Yes, if you can find one ... none on the Holdencrazy site ... just the 2008 matching pair.

The L98 tunes from Sid should work OK - in lieu of finding a 2007 T42 TCM tune from a compatible 2007 L76 OS.

Weekend with the family ... probably the same at your house ... will try and get the L98 ECM & TCM modified tunes posted early tomorrow.


Regards,
Taz

[Taz]

Attached are the 2007 L98 Holden tune files Sid had suggested.

These have been modified to your application, including:


2010 L99 Camaro

injector flow rate
intake manifold volume
MAP values


2007 L92 Escalade

VVE table values
spark table values
cylinder volume


2007 Corvette

MAF values
IAT values
Tunes were also adjusted for your tire size and gear ratio. VATS / Cranking “patches” applied. DTC / MIL values modified (probably didn’t get them all !).

Hopefully I didn’t miss anything … give the tunes a thorough review prior to use. Remember to apply the alternator fix.

Good luck with the “full flash” of each …….


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

That is awesome. I really appreciate all the effort.

Will give them a go today.

[68problemchild]

Hmm. Sorry, did full flash then partial on both tunes. No start. DTC's

ECM P2119
ECM P0851

[Taz]

OK ... sounds like the full flash was accepted – good beginning.

DTC P0851 has to do with your Park / Neutral switch – probably should be set to “Not Reported” – check your original L92 tune DTC to confirm.

DTC P2119 has to do with the TPS / Throttle plate position and movement. Sometimes a throttle “relearn” will occur – after key has been “on” for at least 30 seconds, with the engine off – try this and listen for TPS / TB motor working.

Away from home - aren’t BlackBerry’s great - no access to the tuning software – check the TP / TB settings in the L98 tune with the most recent previous tune that you were using. Think I changed those to L92 parameters – can’t recall for certain.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Sorry bud. I don't hear any throttle body movement. Its a no start.

I did load and unload alot of stuff today. Short version is, it will not start with anything other than the original operating system. So nothing can be a full flash save the original, and then I can load in some other tunes. This particular tune willl not load over the original operating system. The Old L76 one will.

[Taz]

OK ... not a Gen IV expert ... probably going to need Ian's assistance again. Try loading the 2007 L76 ECM tune with the 2007 L98 TCM tune - they're both 2007 tunes - not sure if they will communicate with each other.

You had previuosly loaded the 2007 L76 ECM tune with the 2008 L76 TCM - and they communicated somewhat - but not perfectly.

Just a suggestion ....


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Its a good idea. The tune would not operate on full reflash but I have loaded the 2007 L76 over the original operating system and it runs. So:

Original tune full flash
2007 L76 flash and
2007L98 TCM full flash.

I will give it a go.

[ScarabEpic22]

Just to chime in here again, you're actually pressing the fat red arrow to full flash these right? I know there was some confusion a week or so ago and cant remember if it was in this thread or another.

Id personally stick with 2007 ECM and TCM OSs, preferably from the same platform (ie truck and truck, car and car). Sounds like you've had it running so its just minor things now. Im surprised the other tunes full flashed dont give you any throttle, wonder if the wiring is different coming off the ECM. GM did a lot of this when they switched to common ECM/TCMs, same ECM but different pins coming off it do different things (more so than the LS1, just a few variants there with the AC relay, etc).

[gmh308]

Id personally stick with 2007 ECM and TCM OSs, preferably from the same platform (ie truck and truck, car and car). Sounds like you've had it running so its just minor things now. Im surprised the other tunes full flashed dont give you any throttle, wonder if the wiring is different coming off the ECM. GM did a lot of this when they switched to common ECM/TCMs, same ECM but different pins coming off it do different things (more so than the LS1, just a few variants there with the AC relay, etc).

Going by memory from a case a while back...the truck tunes sometimes do this (limp mode) right almost from zero on throttle movement if truck cal is used in car ECM. ETC calibration is quite different on trucks. :(

[68problemchild]

Yes, full flash, FAT red arrow. I am on that.

Yes, feels like limp mode. Any way to shut off limp mode?

Something in the original operating system allows it to run. So as long as the original
L92 OS is in place, the car does start with calibrations I lay over it. But it seems to hop right into limp mode. If I could find a 2007 TCM with the same OS that would be perfect. Until then I will lay these over tonight. One thing I have not tried is running a 6L80 TCM OS full flash, then laying over a 2007 L76 TCM calibration flash. At least then I would have similar operating systems talking.

Does this mean I need to try and get a hold of a truck computer to take a full flash? I prefer anything outside of having to change out the tranny.

Thanks guys. Great input.

[gmh308]

You have mail :)

[68problemchild]

Here is a jacked up BUT shifting version of the car. Down shifts too.

Its throwing TCM code p0787 Shift/timing Solenoid low.

Well its in fourth gear at 5 mph but it will down shift.

This tune consists of original L92 flash in full, L76 engine tune calibration flash-which is a matching operating system, 2008 L76 sierra full TCM flash.

[68problemchild]

Log with much zippier original tune but it never got fuel trims in line.

It does downshift too with the 2008 L76 Sierra TCM flash but not as well. Basically skips from third into first at stop.

It also throws more codes:
TCM P0787 Shift timing solenoid low
ECM P0171 Fuel trim lean bank 1
ECM P0174 Fuel trim lean bank 2
ECM P0645 AC control circuit (turned off in tune above)
ECM P1516 Throttle actuator control TAC position performance.

[68problemchild]

When the new computers arrive, this system will tune them without new licenses yes?

[Taz]

No ... you will have to licence the new ECM / TCM before you can tune them. You can read them without licencing.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Here is the latest with the new ECM/TCM.

This is by far better spec'd in than I could do but, ...

Its still throwing TCM P0787, Transmission solonoid low.

The tranny does shift, as before but mostly hangs in 4th gear until stop or 550 rpm.
Iat is dead on for the first time.
KPA is still 102 versus 100.
TP% is now up to 70 from a max of 32 before. Not sure how important that is.

[gmh308]

Here is the latest with the new ECM/TCM.

This is by far better spec'd in than I could do but, ...

Its still throwing TCM P0787, Transmission solonoid low.

The tranny does shift, as before but mostly hangs in 4th gear until stop or 550 rpm.
Iat is dead on for the first time.
KPA is still 102 versus 100.

Difficult to help much without seeing the tune/s.

MAP KPa will vary depending on local barometric pressure.

Cheers :)

[68problemchild]

Thanks Ian. Please check mailbox.

[gmh308]

Thanks Ian. Please check mailbox.

Nothing arrived. May have been inbox full...it was a busy day... :)

[68problemchild]

FYI


The DTC indicates a hard failure, not a programming issue. It's either a problem with the 3-2 solenoid or a problem with the wiring in that area. I don't know what harness you are using, but you might want to double check for correct pining at the trans and at the TCM.

Here's a little of the P0787 description from the service manual:


DTC P0787: 3-2 Shift Solenoid (SS) Control Circuit Low Voltage


Circuit/System Description

The 3-2 shift solenoid (SS) valve is a normally-closed, 3-port, on/off device that controls the 3-2 downshift. The solenoid attaches to the control valve body within the transmission. The solenoid receives ignition voltage through the ignition 1 circuit. The transmission control module (TCM) controls the solenoid by providing a ground path on the 3-2 shift solenoid valve control circuit. During a 3-2 downshift, the 2-4 band applies as the 3-4 clutch releases. The TCM varies the timing between the 3-4 clutch release and the 2-4 band apply depending on the vehicle speed and the throttle position.

Conditions for Running the DTC
P0787
• The system voltage is 8-18 volts.
• The engine speed is greater than 475 RPM for 5 seconds.
• Vehicle speed is less than 200 km/h (124 mph).

Conditions for Setting the DTC
P0787

The following condition occurs for 5 seconds:

The TCM commands the solenoid OFF and the voltage feedback remains low, 0 volts.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
P0787
• DTC P0787 is a Type B DTC.
• The TCM inhibits 3-2 shift until vehicle speed is 20 km/h (12 mph) or less.
• The TCM freezes transmission adaptive functions..



Find the mechanical or electrical issue causing the code and I think everything should start acting right.

[joecar]

The 3-2 solenoid controls the rate of fluid exhaust from the 3rd accumulator (servo is stroking to apply band for 2nd gear, i.e. pushing 3rd accum fluid out)...

the 3-2 solenoid is not a shift solenoid, so you should still be getting normal up/down shifts.

See last comment below...


If the trans hangs onto 4th until VSS is low, then the 4th gear up/down-shift tables need to be adjusted.

But, like you said, finding the mechanical/electrical issue might reveal something that was overlooked.

[68problemchild]

Not me, just a quote from the new programmer.

Thanks for all the patience guys.

Updated motor picks. (ps this thing is an animal)

[Taz]

Excerpt from factory service bulletin ……

4L60-E, 4L65-E or 4L70-E Automatic Transmission (RPOs M30, M32 or M70)

Some dealership technicians may have difficulty diagnosing DTC P0756, 2-3 Shift Valve Performance on 4L60-E, 4L65-E or 4L70-E automatic transmissions. As detailed in the Service Manual, when the PCM detects a 4-3-3-4 shift pattern, DTC P0756 will set. Some customers may also describe a condition of a second, third or forth gear start that may have the same causes but has not set this DTC yet.

Below are some tips when diagnosing this DTC:


This is a performance code. This means that a mechanical malfunction exists.
This code is not set by electrical issues such as a damaged wiring harness or poor electrical connections. Electrical problems would cause a DTC P0758, P0787 or P0788 to set.
The most likely cause is chips/debris plugging the filtered AFL oil at orifice #29 on the top of the spacer plate (48). This is a very small hole and is easily plugged by a small amount of debris. It is important to remove the spacer plate and inspect orifice #29 and the immediate area for the presence of chips/debris. Also, the transmission case passage directly above this orifice and the valve body passage directly below should be inspected and cleaned of any chips/debris.
This code could be set if the 2-3 shift valve (368) were stuck or hung-up in its bore. Inspect the 2-3 shift valve (368) and the 2-3 shuttle valve (369) for free movement or damage and clean the valves, the bore and the valve body passages.
This code could be set by a 2-3 shift solenoid (367b) if it were cracked, broken or leaking.

Refer to Shift Solenoid Leak Test in the appropriate Service Manual for the leak test procedure. Based on parts return findings, a damaged or leaking shift solenoid is the least likely cause of this condition. Simply replacing a shift solenoid will not correct this condition unless the solenoid has been found to be cracked, broken or leaking.

It is important to also refer to the appropriate Service Manual for further possible causes of this condition.

…………………….

So, could be debris in the solenoids / valves / orifices. Read an article where a gentleman replaced the solenoids as a precaution, and this corrected the problem.

Check the wiring harness (in the transmission) - ensure circuits are not compromised - power and ground.

Going to take a little detective work.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Anyone got the pinouts for a 4L70E?

[Chuck L.]

Anyone got the pinouts for a 4L70E?

is this any help??
http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/download/db/TCM4100SCH.pdf

[68problemchild]

Outstanding.

Thank you Chuck!!!!

[Chuck L.]

Outstanding.

Thank you Chuck!!!!

most welcome.
I'm watching this thread, as my bud has an 07/L92 out of an Escalade, and has bought a new 70E from S&P. He too got the "green lite" on compatibility. But, was also told a new PCM and TCM would have to be used.[Came w/ E38]. No details on just what they intend using, but if I find out, I'll pass it along....:)

[68problemchild]

Latest log. I can manually shift but still hangs in forth quite a bit. No error codes. :grin:

This may just need tweeking...

[68problemchild]

"The most likely cause is chips/debris plugging the filtered AFL oil at orifice #29 on the top of the spacer plate (48). This is a very small hole and is easily plugged by a small amount of debris. It is important to remove the spacer plate and inspect orifice #29 and the immediate area for the presence of chips/debris."

Anyone know where Orifice #29 is on top of spacer plate 48?

[68problemchild]

Taz, the tranny mods are working. The latter tranny tune with "busier" shifts works better. It hangs now in 3rd versus 4th on the downshift. It would be nice to do to third gear what you previously did to 4th.

Interesting notes are the speed is showing 158MPH. It was maybe 60.

Throttle % opening still seems an issue.

And, of course, the Ian's alt fix works awesome right from the get go.

First gear winds out nicely. Second is extremely short, and most time its in 3rd.

Definitely progress.

Its going to tranny guy Monday to eliminate the existance of any mechanical issues.

I did a minor mod on the tacho back to "9" so it reads correctly again. Also, increased idle in the tune 100 rpms only and that seems to be the ticket versus 250.

It sounds like a simple quiet Camry at idle, nice low growl but she'll go! Sqauks shifting to second. I love it.

See logs

Can you say sleeper?

Very nice progress.

[Taz]

Good to hear you’re making progress. I worked on the TCM tunes in Metric (Km/h) … Canadian after all … may have forgot to change the speedometer segment back to Imperial – could be part of the discrepancy between indicated versus actual speed.

Will try and take another look at the TCM tune this evening.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Thanks Taz.

Here is another run with the "busy" tranny tune. It seems to like WOT runs but at partial throttle still hangs in 3-4.

WOT run at frame 14300. Not sure how fast it really was but it was going....

[68problemchild]

PS, TCM still throwing P0787 code.

[68problemchild]

Latest log

Still throwing code P0787 on TCM
ECM throwing P0011 Intake camshaft postion.

Frames 102-107 I held speedo at 55mph. VSS =158.

Thanks guys for any and all input.

[68problemchild]

udpated logs on each tranny tune

[68problemchild]

Log of the 2.87 ratio tranny tune going 20 mph at beginning and end. VSS was reading 22. Still hanging in 4th on downshifts and throwing P0787 code.

[68problemchild]

Ok, car is back from the Tranny guy. (No charge).

Car is doing the same thing. He changed the solenoid and thought there may be a small bend in it but really did not see any problems with it. Its no longer is throwing the P0787 code (at least after 4 drives) but now is throwing:

UNK P0011
UNK P0171
UNK P0174

I am pretty sure the latter two are tuning issues. The first though I am not sure of.

Still hangs in third. On WOT or Hot settings it up shifts fine. Just wont do much in PT other than hang in 3-4th on downshifts.

Not sure where to go from here. Vss reads 20% diff from Vss_M on logger. Not sure if that is relevant. Read speed is pretty close to actual in MPH.

4 - 3- 2 shifts towards the tail end are me shifting it manually. Car has no issues with that.

[joecar]

Please post your latest TCM file.

[Taz]

The DTC codes you listed are ECM (engine) related.

P0011 - intake cam position
P0171 - bank 1 lean
P0174 - bank 2 lean


Joecar …

The vehicle is equipped with 3.73 gears, and tires with a 25.60 inch diameter. Using these “true” values resulted in a calculated vehicle speed of approximately 3 times the actual vehicle speed.

The speedometer calibration of the TCM tune was then modified (ie. untrue data) in an attempt to bring the calculated vehicle speed (from VSS output) into agreement with the actual vehicle speed - which should have improved the PT shift executions - but did not.

The tailstock of the transmission is fitted with both a cable drive speedometer (700R4 type) and what appears to be a 40 tooth reluctor VSS. The cable driven speedometer seems fairly accurate.

Would welcome a fresh pair of eyes … would be nice if the solution was something simple that has been missed or overlooked …


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Current TCM with a speedo factor of 2.87.

Thanks!!

Logging V2
PID KMH VSS_M = 68
PID KMH VSS=88 according to V2. Not sure what difference is between the PIDS.

[68problemchild]

Here is a little zero to sixty run at frame 9200. That is letting off at around 4200 RPM with a likely max rpm somewhere around 6400. Imagine once its shifting right and tuned!

[68problemchild]

Taz, you are absolutely awesome.

WE NOW HAVE A FULLY SHIFTING 4L70E TRANNY MATED TO A VVT L92.

It downshifts into 2nd at 25 mph. Also, while VSS_M is different from VSS in the logger, the speed showing for Vss_M KMH is dead nuts on.

I downloaded the new free hodel iphone speedo GPS based app. It reads both Mph or KMH and its dead on. ( verifed with another vehicle first).

VVT here we come.

On to tuning!!!!

Thanks all for not giving up on me!!!!!!!

LOG attached

[joecar]

Good job :cheers:

what was the final piece (may I please look at your TCM file)...?

[gmh308]

Current TCM with a speedo factor of 2.87.

Thanks!!

Logging V2
PID KMH VSS_M = 68
PID KMH VSS=88 according to V2. Not sure what difference is between the PIDS.

Great to see you up and running!

Are you using a regular speedo?

Interesting to see the difference between the DMA PID for VSS and SAE PID. Ross might confirm, but I would expect that SAE VSS is derived from the DMA VSS PID. Maybe the various speedo calibrations factor the DMA VSS PID.

Cheers.

[Taz]

Nice to hear … you’ve been working at this for a while now … had to have been frustrating.

Replacing the transmission solenoid seemed to eliminate the P0787 DTC. Bringing the actual vehicle speed and calculated vehicle speed into reasonable agreement, let the “coarse” TCM tune actually begin to control the PT shifts.

I’m going to guess that now that the transmission is shifting, the TCM tune will need to be polished. Probably displays both too harsh, and too soft qualities - depending on speed / gear / TP.

At least you finally know the transmission is mechanical sound, and future refinements will be tune based.

Congratulations !


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

I have kept the original 68 speedo so its cable driven from the tranny. Currently it needs a new gear since the 1968 speedo reads 61MPH at 50PMH.

The Logger is correct on V2 though. I looked at the GPS on my cell and VSS_DMA is right on. The regular VSS pid reads 10-20KMH higher than actual.

When VSS_DMA = 66 KMH
VSS= 88 KMH

Here is the working tranny tune

9565

[68problemchild]

This is a quick log with Taz's pids followed by long log with the closest pids I could program into V2. Taz pids do not seem to log the cam timing. Open to ideas here.

Car VSS seems pretty spot on.

Tranny shifting into gears and downshifting just fine.

WOT second gear really breaks loose on the tires.

I am still getting the DTC P0011 on the cam timing but I am almost certain its the cam rev limiter I put in. I may set it to no mil.

Also I am still getting bank lean errors. Until I get the O2 back from innovate, any way to richin it up a bit? I would rather go too rich than too lean.

Thanks for the help guys. Taz the board says the last log is too big so I will send it email.

[Taz]

Hello 68problemchild,

Nice to see you making progress. As I have indicated in previous posts - Gen III guy - have never tuned a VVT Gen IV. I had further indicated there appeared to be 3 options for cam timing / angle PIDS - suggested beginning with the generic PIDs, and if these didn’t work, moving on to the other optional PIDs until the correct ones were located.

If memory serves, the remaining (untried) PIDs are labelled “intake cam” and “exhaust cam” - try each set of those separately, and see which ones are correct (if any) for your L92.


Happy Holidays,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Thanks Taz will do.

I am just so happy to be driving!!

[68problemchild]

OK, I just looked at my most recent long log with the pids. The max commanded in the run was 19 because I had done some mods to that file to cap it. Problem is actual cam never gets farther than 6.2 degreees advance.

Now the cam had built in advance of 5. Not sure if this matters. I know how to adjust it but not if its capping out at 6? Anyways, thanks to Taz I now know the phaser is not really functioning. It does have a cam limiter but this should only limit it a few degrees.

[Taz]

Took a look at the large log you sent me - nice job getting the cam angle PIDs working. I agree, your cam appears to be mechanically limited to around 6 degrees of advance, while the ECM is commanding 19 degrees of advance - which is generating an error of 12 degrees or so - setting the DTC.

The purpose of B7930 (Cam Position ECT Multiplier) appears to restrict cam advance when the engine is cold and under light load.

You have about 6.2 degrees of cam advance, that’s about 32% of what the ECM is commanding (19 degrees). Try setting the maximum values in B7930 to no more than 0.3200 - anything less than that don’t change - anything greater set to 0.3200.

This may eliminate the DTC being set.

I updated the test drive PIDs I had sent you with the correct cam angle group. This should help log data directly applicable to the cam angle and shifts.


Regards,
Taz

[68problemchild]

Here are two logs of the 2nd tune. (With VSS and slip test active) No dtc's other than P0011.

First to second is still harsh only at times but other gears seem fine.
WOT, chirps into second gear.

Still some rpm spin in first and second gear while car is in motion/slippage.

Tried to hold TP as best I could.

Thanks!!

[Taz]

Downloaded the logs … will have a look when I get back home later this evening.

If the ISS and trans Slip Test were active (had not been previously), and no DTC was set - it’s possible the slippage you are feeling currently is the TCC locking / unlocking. I recall when we were working on just getting the trans to shift at all - the low %TP and TCC parameters were modified.

Good job … any progress is good progress !!


Regards,
Taz