JEEP 4.0L engine to GM PCM?

[THEFERMANATOR]

I'm considering going with a GM PCM(most likely a 0411) for a JEEP project down the road. I have looked into aftermarket ECM's to control it as my factory 87-90 ECM isn't really tuneable, and the swap to a newer style PCM just doesn't make much sense by the time I buy a donor and swap everything over.

My question's are;
1.How much crank duration does the crank sensor require? My current flywheel already has raised trigger nothces for the crank sensor so I could machine it down to only have as many as I need.

2.How do I deal with the firing order differences?(4.3L V-6 is 165432, and a JEEP is 153624) Do I just wire the injectors up to offset for it?

3.Do I have to run a MAF sensor on it?

4.And would a COS take care of the fact that an inline 6 would only use 1 O2 sensor?

This isn't a project I will be doing anytime soon, but am planning out now. I plan on taking a 4.0L block that I have that is still standard and dropping in a 4.2L crank which gives you a poor man's 4.5L stroker motor. It will be backed up by a 5 speed manual trans, so no need for trans controls in the PCM. And I already have a V2 for my DURAMAX in the SUBURBAN, so it makes sense to use it for my tuning instead of buying an ACCEL or something like that.

[GAMEOVER]

I've always wondered if it was possible with the 4.0 block & LS1 pcm...I've done quite a few LS1, 5.3 & 6.0 conversions mostly TJ 96-2004... It sucks because once you add a stroker kit, turbo, or a supercharger to the 4.0 you're screwed because you gotta go Haltech or Electromotive....No software available for Jeep!!!

[THEFERMANATOR]

I've always wondered if it was possible with the 4.0 block & LS1 pcm...I've done quite a few LS1, 5.3 & 6.0 conversions mostly TJ 96-2004... It sucks because once you add a stroker kit, turbo, or a supercharger to the 4.0 you're screwed because you gotta go Haltech or Electromotive....No software available for Jeep!!!

And those aftermarket ECM's are pretty pricey too. I've got the earlier style flywheel which uses raised teeth, and I could use a later model crank sensor that is hall effect. SO I figure a crank sensor reading would be pretty easy to obtain. The JEEP already uses a single pulse for TDC on #1 with the stock distributor. I figured it would be doable, just finding somebody who knows enough about EFILIVE and gassers to point me in the right direction is the main thing.

[GAMEOVER]

I've got a couple of Jeeps with 4.0's that I can test on...They ain't mine but I'm gonna be installing GM V8's in them pretty soon...:)
:)

[ScarabEpic22]

THEFERMANATOR, can answer some of your questions and pose a few more:

1) dont know
2) just swap the injector outputs (I think is what others have done to run SBC with different firing orders with 0411 PCM)
3) run a COS in Speed Density, so not if you go that way
4) No, but you could mimick the 1 O2 to both PCM inputs so it would correctly alter the LTFTs/STFTs (if active)

But, have you thought about running an E67 with a 2008-9 TrailBlazer/Envoy 4.2L I6 cal? Yes they have VVT, but you could just 0 those tables out and ignore them. Plus they are already setup for an inline motor. Food for thought...

[DURAtotheMAX]

I posted a thread about this very same topic several years ago on Diesel Place I think...a buddy and I were originally working on it for his 93 YJ on 1-tons and 38.5's...4.0HO and he was putting a supercharger on it.

Im banned from there now so I cant search but im sure if you look "Jeep" "ECM" "Efilive" then it will come up.

Ben

[THEFERMANATOR]

I posted a thread about this very same topic several years ago on Diesel Place I think...a buddy and I were originally working on it for his 93 YJ on 1-tons and 38.5's...4.0HO and he was putting a supercharger on it.

Im banned from there now so I cant search but im sure if you look "Jeep" "ECM" "Efilive" then it will come up.

Ben

Found it.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122508&highlight=JEEP+EFILIVE

I was mainly looking at the 4.3L V6 as the crank trigger seems pretty simple, and could be adapted to a flywheel I already have. Also the inline engine has drive by wire and the VVT, and I didn't know how that could be gotten around easily. As for the stock JEEP ECM's, I have an early 87-90 style RENIX which is the one that adapts the best to changes as it doesn't have OBD or anything(basically it is so dumb it will work with most anything I have been told so long as you get the injector sizing close), but they always had idle problems on start up(half the time they will flare up to 2-3K on start-up for 2 seconds to a minute for no apparent reason). There are a couple of people out there doing custom set-ups for the 91-95 SBEC system, but they are pricey to say the least. This isn't a project that I will be doing right away, but would like to do it maybe next year.

[ScarabEpic22]

I wouldnt worry about the VVT on the LL8 cal, as for the throttle body being DBW they are reasonably priced and if you could swap it to your Jeep you'd be set. Not sure you want to go down that road or not, just throwing ideas out.

The V6 cal would be interesting, wonder if you can make it work ok. Hmmm...Ill keep thinking about it

[THEFERMANATOR]

Well I put a little thought and time into this, and it looks like a 4.3L V6 PCM would work out nicely for this swap. I already have the 87-90 manual flywheel for a 4.0L which is the only factory flywheel with raised nothes to trigger the crank sensor(all others used windows to trigger it), so with some machining it could be made to have just 3 nothces like a 4.3L VORTEC engine has. The distributo in a JEEP already uses a single window in the ditributor for the TDC on #1 just like the 4.3L does. The 4.3L's firing order is 1 6 5 4 3 2, and the JEEP is 1 5 3 6 2 4. If I repin the injectors to match the 4.0L's firing order and run a 99+ style split manifold, I can use a seperate O2 sensor for each manifold and have the dual fuel trim work. The dual manifold splits up the front 3 from the back 3, so instead of going from left bank to right bank it would go from teh front 3 to the back 3. It looks like my main hurdle will be findin a 4.3L with a late model PCM that I can use EFILIVE on with a manual calibration in it for a donor truck so I can get a wiring harness and all of the neccesary sensors and modules. If I could find a 4.3L OS to look at it would be helpful to see about possibly rescaling the TPS to work with a JEEP throttle body which would simplify things even more so.

[ScarabEpic22]

Use an 0411 PCM and flash a LS1B 4.3 V6 tune into it. I actually just pulled my friends 02 Blazer 4.3 tune last week, let me post it for ya.

Im not sure how to do the manual part of this, thats the last thing to figure out. The Blazer with a 4.3 wasnt offered IIRC, maybe look for a S10 manual file? But I dont know if you could ever get the V6 with a manual, it might have only been paired to the I4.

[Taz]

Two V6 4.3 L manual transmission tune files attached below. The 2002 tune uses a 512Kb LS1-B PCM (Serv # 12200411). The 2006 tune uses a 1Mb LS1-B PCM (Serv #12589462 Hdw #12589161). Both are DBC.


Regards,
Taz

[ScarabEpic22]

So I was wrong, you could get the S10/Sonoma with the V6 and Manual. Use one of those files then and not the one I posted as its for a 4X4 Auto.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I knew you could get one, it was just finding it. I guess this also means I don't have to get the ECM out of an S-10, but it could be anything with that ECM and then full flash it to the 4.3L OS? Seems like this should be a pretty doable swap when the time comes then. Sure beats spending $300-500 for somebody else to build me a custom ECM and hope it runs right with my engine combo.

[Taz]

Regarding PCM choice …

As the 4.3 L V6 (L35 / LU3) using the LS1-B style PCM were all DBC, you require a PCM that supports DBC.

All ’99-’02 LS1-B style 512Kb PCMs should support DBC.

Some ’03-’07 LS1-B style 1Mb PCMs support DBC - some don’t (missing the “chip” that controls the IAC).

If you’re buying a used LS1-B style PCM, the following ’03-’07 LS1-B PCMs should support DBC.


V6 applications:

S10 / Sonoma / Blazer / Jimmy / Bravada / Astro / Safari
Sierra / Silverado / Express / Savana


V8 applications:

Express / Savana - if originally equipped with DBC
’04 GTO


Regards,
Taz

[DURAtotheMAX]

Well I put a little thought and time into this, and it looks like a 4.3L V6 PCM would work out nicely for this swap. I already have the 87-90 manual flywheel for a 4.0L which is the only factory flywheel with raised nothes to trigger the crank sensor(all others used windows to trigger it), so with some machining it could be made to have just 3 nothces like a 4.3L VORTEC engine has. The distributo in a JEEP already uses a single window in the ditributor for the TDC on #1 just like the 4.3L does. The 4.3L's firing order is 1 6 5 4 3 2, and the JEEP is 1 5 3 6 2 4. If I repin the injectors to match the 4.0L's firing order and run a 99+ style split manifold, I can use a seperate O2 sensor for each manifold and have the dual fuel trim work. The dual manifold splits up the front 3 from the back 3, so instead of going from left bank to right bank it would go from teh front 3 to the back 3. It looks like my main hurdle will be findin a 4.3L with a late model PCM that I can use EFILIVE on with a manual calibration in it for a donor truck so I can get a wiring harness and all of the neccesary sensors and modules. If I could find a 4.3L OS to look at it would be helpful to see about possibly rescaling the TPS to work with a JEEP throttle body which would simplify things even more so.

I have a rare 4.3/manual trans/4x4 calibration from a 2006 silverado half ton. :D

Whats your email?

[GAMEOVER]

Man, this thread is interesting... 4.0 controlled by LS1 pcm:cucumber:

[THEFERMANATOR]

I have a rare 4.3/manual trans/4x4 calibration from a 2006 silverado half ton. :D

Whats your email?

You've got a PM.

As far as a PCM goes, I basically need an 0411 like the 96-00 VORTEC guys want? I'm hoping I'll have the funds here in the next few months to get this started as I REALLY miss driving my old COMANCHE. I've got quite a few parts already for my stroker motor out in the shop too.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Man, this thread is interesting... 4.0 controlled by LS1 pcm:cucumber:

I guess I just gotta be different and all. I put a DURAMAX in a 95 BURB, I gotta find a way to raise the bar a little higher next time.

[ScarabEpic22]

You've got a PM.

As far as a PCM goes, I basically need an 0411 like the 96-00 VORTEC guys want? I'm hoping I'll have the funds here in the next few months to get this started as I REALLY miss driving my old COMANCHE. I've got quite a few parts already for my stroker motor out in the shop too.

Yep, as mentioned in a previous post make sure it can do DBW (sounds like all 512kb PCMs can, what Id use).


I guess I just gotta be different and all. I put a DURAMAX in a 95 BURB, I gotta find a way to raise the bar a little higher next time.

Nice! I really want to make a Duryukali (Duramax in a Yukon Denali 5pass) for my parent's next SUV, but my mom likes her Audi Q5 instead. Too bad it cant tow jack, looks like Ill be towing the boats forever now haha.

[EagleMark]

You guys are having too much fun!

I'm doing a similar GM ECM to a 4.0L engine but plan on using a 427 ECM as I am familiar with the earlier OBD 1 stuff. Plans are using my 258 bottom end with a 4.0L head and the newer 2001 tuned port intake. Originally thought of removing the throttle body and machining a GM throttle body. But recently looking into using the Jeep throttle body, IAC, TPS, IAT and possibly the MAP as they are already there but don't know yet if the GM ECM is capable. So I will be following along here. Good luck with your swap!

[THEFERMANATOR]

You guys are having too much fun!

I'm doing a similar GM ECM to a 4.0L engine but plan on using a 427 ECM as I am familiar with the earlier OBD 1 stuff. Plans are using my 258 bottom end with a 4.0L head and the newer 2001 tuned port intake. Originally thought of removing the throttle body and machining a GM throttle body. But recently looking into using the Jeep throttle body, IAC, TPS, IAT and possibly the MAP as they are already there but don't know yet if the GM ECM is capable. So I will be following along here. Good luck with your swap!

I would highly reccomend going with a 4.5L budget stroker over a 258. It will be a very worthwhile upgrade in the end for power. I've done one with a carb and it is IMPRESSIVE! I put less than a grand into it as I had alot of spare parts, but it will burn the tires in 4th gear with 32's on it. U-joints and driveshafts though have a short lifespan.