Need help selecting and tuning for LS2 EV6 Shorty injectors for my LY7 V6 please!

[E67boostquest]

Hello gang. I'm a bit confused as to which product to get, and how I should go about tuning them based off of data that's out there...

On my LY7 they come with 23.6# injectors (@ 3bar) They are the same LS2 style shorty high impedence injectors.

I'll need something that will handle 400whp in a rich (high BSFC) scenario. So I'm assuming at the very very least 42# injectors. Now I know some people like F.A.S.T. drills out holes for improved flow, but I don't know how that effects the injector calcs and atomization...

What information would I keep and what should I change? Does EFI Live have the capability to change offset and such?

Help please. I need to buy these injectors somewhat soon - and I am unsure what info I need or what product to buy.
I'm inclined to stay away from Simens 60# injectors. So if I go with a drilled out LS2 injector what information would I need?

[E67boostquest]

Hello gang, it looks like I pulled the trigger on some Fuel injector connection injectors. Same injector just a 6 hole bored out a bit versus my 4 hole. They claim the internals of the injectors are all completely the same the bottom plate is the only difference.

SO with that I will have my hands on some files, and hopefully since they are drop in there won't be much by way of calibration.

So now how do I calibrate fuel flow? From my 23# injectors to these 550CC/52# injectors?

[joecar]

Do you have a manifold referenced FPR...?

If so, temporarily remove the reference hose (expose the FPR to BARO)... then measure rail pressure.

If you have an unreferenced FPR then simply measure rail pressure.

Then use the spreadsheet to calculate your IFR table (using measured rail pressure and FIC's rating specs): showthread.php?t=4821 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4821)

FIC would have supplied you with some of the other injector characteristics tables.

[E67boostquest]

I do not, I've been told I have one of those annoying in tank FPRs.
What B look up number should I be tuning? B8101?

[E67boostquest]

In that spreadsheet, where do I put that final data? My numbers using a 52# injector at 4 bar come up with a number that claims is more than EFI Live will go up to "7.999" or something so I must be looking in the wrong table.

Also. When I get into boost what will happen to my flow rate? Will it just go lean on it's own since there is no reference to the regulator in the tank?

[joecar]

The IFR calculated by the spreadsheet has to be interpolated to fit the IFR in your E38/E67 calibration file.

Post your calibration file and the calculated IFR here.

[E67boostquest]

Joe, I haven't gotten my EFI Live yet, I'm trying to learn off of the download so that when I get it I know what I'm doing and I don't wash my cylinders out on my daily driver :)

For now I was using an a stock Inline 6 based E67 someone posted on another thread. I'm just trying to learn before I get it. Could we use any file together such as the example E38 file that comes with the download for tutorial purposes? I'm understanding what you mean. And i'll post my tables anyways.


MAP (kPa)
0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80
Injector Flow (g/sec)
7.57 7.61 7.66 7.71 7.75 7.8 7.84 7.89 7.93 7.98 8.02 8.07 8.11 8.16 8.2 8.24 8.29

[joecar]

Take a look at this thread: showthread.php?14825-Moving-from-Vortec-MPFI-poppet-design-to-EV6-injectors (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14825-Moving-from-Vortec-MPFI-poppet-design-to-EV6-injectors)

He is using LS2 injectors in his LS1.

He has a manifold-referenced FPR so his B4001 will be flat horizontal.

The problem with LS1/LS2/E40 calibrations is this:
B4001 ranges 0-80kPa Vacuum, when a non-referenced FPR is used, boost (negative vacuum) pegs B4001 at 0kPa;
this means that a manifold-referenced FPR is needed if you want the IFR to be accurate (B4001 now becomes same value in all cells).

LS3/E38/E67 fixes this by having a B4001 that ranges into boost as well as vacuum.

[E67boostquest]

Yes, I've actually read through that thread, and it all makes sense.

Well I was given a file tha contained this for b4001

5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.260000
5.360000
5.470000
5.570000
5.660000
5.760000
5.760000
5.760000
5.760000
5.760000
5.760000
5.760000
5.760000
5.760000
5.760000
5.760000


This has a weird curve. It's what the stock PCM was I believe, and it's similar in curve to what my E67 dummy file that i'm using, but I'm confused.

Since every 10 KPA or so has an effect on the output of that injector, why does the curve look like this?
........__
____/

I would think it would be like an exponential or at least linear rising rate no?

Also how do I find out what the real numbers should be, do I have to modify that spreadsheet to give me KPA that high? It would seem that if I did I'd have to use negative values (which would probably break the math in the spreadsheet).

I guess I'm confused as to how to find this proper curve. And Joe, I still have an issue with having the values maxed out past 45 KPA or so, what do I do about that?

[joecar]

Look at the kPa range for this subset of the IFR table you posted:

5.260000 <-- 400kPa
5.360000
5.470000
5.570000
5.660000
5.760000 <-- 480kPa


Those values are for DeltaMAP ranging from 400kPa to 480kPa...

DeltaMAP is the pressure difference across any one injector (top minus bottom)...

see this thread: showthread.php?14815-B4001-ifb (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14815-B4001-ifb)



absolute rail pressure = gauge rail pressure + BARO

MANVAC = BARO - MAP

DeltaMAP = absolute rail pressure - MAP = gauge rail pressure + MANVAC

gauge rail pressure = 400kPa (58psi)


DeltaMAP range 400-480kPa maps directly to MANVAC range 0-80kPa...
i.e.:
400kPa == 0kPa == WOT
480kPa == 80kPa == closed throttle decel
i.e. DeltaMAP is related to MANVAC by: DeltaMAP = 400kPa + MANVAC

[joecar]

On either end of the 400-480kPa range, the IFR flattens out... this means either of these:
- non-boosted application,
- FPR has help during boost (i.e. manifold-referenced during boost, and non-referenced during non-boost).

The range below 400kPa is boost.

[E67boostquest]

hwo do I find the data values below 400 KPA for the Delta Map?

[joecar]

You can calculate them:

IFR = R0 * sqrt(DeltaMAP / P0)

where:
R0 = flowrate when DeltaMAP is 400kPa = 5.2600 g/s (from your post)
P0 = DeltaMAP when MAP is BARO = 400kPa

i.e. IFR = 5.2600 * sqrt(DeltaMAP/400) where you set DeltaMAP to values ranging from 300kPa to 400kPa (for 1-bar boost).

[joecar]

Note that DeltaMAP = gauge rail pressure when MAP=BARO (i.e. MANVAC=zero).

[E67boostquest]

Ok, however still a couple points of confusion...
In the file that I got for my delta map that I already posted. I was told that came from an LS2 bin. (fine because that's what I need)
However it doesn't match up at all with the spreadsheet. I don't think that spreadsheet can help me. I'd rather just manually calculate what I need on my own, can you give me the formulas with an example to set my IFB?

I understand the formula you just gave me to find out what they are when I start going into boost. Is it safe to assume my rail pressure (assuming my pump can keep up) will stay the same at 4 bar? If that is the case I believe the formula you've give me above will work.

The problem with the file I posted, is that if that's from an LS2 the LS2 has a a FPR at the manifold right? I'm getting confused here as to what will specifically work for my application, sorry.

I'd like to email the files that I have to you if I could.

[joecar]

Sorry, I missed post #15.


Trucks usually have the FPR at the manifold/rail... in this case DeltaMAP stays constant at 400kPa (the difference between rail pressure and MAP).