E38 and 512 gps limit

[eboggs_jkvl]

Is there an OS that can be loaded into the E38 that will remove the 512 GPS MAF restriction?

That's it, nothing too hard to answer.

I'm asking in connection with my 2.5 BAR MAP and E-Force supercharger.

If the tune is scaled, all of the tables for air and fuel need to be scaled by 25%. If the tune is unscaled, then the PE table is "adjusted" to cover the area above the MAF table.


Elmer

[ScarabEpic22]

Hmmm I thought that was only a restriction on 06 E38s, maybe the 07s are affected as well. Im pretty sure my 08 E67 doesnt have the 512g/s restriction, if it is table {B1099} then mine goes to 3000 g/s.

Could you upgrade to a 2008 E38 and OS to get around the limit? Might cost you a new E38 and license though.

[gmh308]

Is there an OS that can be loaded into the E38 that will remove the 512 GPS MAF restriction?

That's it, nothing too hard to answer.

I'm asking in connection with my 2.5 BAR MAP and E-Force supercharger.

If the tune is scaled, all of the tables for air and fuel need to be scaled by 25%. If the tune is unscaled, then the PE table is "adjusted" to cover the area above the MAF table.


Elmer

'08's generally have the 3kg/s limit as Erik notes. LS7 being at least one exception. :)

[swingtan]

As above.

The other thing is that the OS change to allow greater than 512gm/S was about the same time as the ECM firmware change that made it rather difficult to swap OS's between early and late E38 ECMs. I never noticed if that was ever fixed, but there was a table that listed compatible OS's with ECM part numbers. The problem was that if you tried using the wrong OS in an ECM, you ended up with a wheel chock.... So don't go flashing in a latter OS without checking.

Simon

[turbo_bu]

swingtan,

Do you happen to know if the 07's still had the 512 gps limit? I know the E38 / E67 ECM list groups them as 06-08 and 09 and newer. Was hoping that the break in OS's and ECM's might be able to be further refined.

[ScarabEpic22]

Elmer's Vette is an 07 E38 and has the restriction, I can check later tonight and see if the 07 TBSS file I have has the same 512g/s restriction or if it has the 3000g/s one like my 08.

[swingtan]

I just looked at a late 2007 tune.

OS: 12619078

With the latest calibration file it has a 3000gm/S MAF limit on it. It seems this OS was used through to 2008 as well in the Holden based vehicles. I don't have a late 2006 (VE) tune, but early 2006 (VZ) certainly had the limit. I'll bet that the late 2006 tunes had the limit as well.

The quickest way to tell if the 512gm/S limit applies, is to check if the tune uses HI/LOW MAF conversion tables or just a single MAF conversion table. If the tune has the HI/LOW tables, it'll have the 512gm/S limit. At least all the ones I've seen are like that.

Simon.

[ScarabEpic22]

Just checked the 2007 TBSS (OS 12611938) file I have and compared it to my 2008 TBSS (OS 12618164). The 07 has the 2 MAF tables and 512g/s limit, the 08 has 1 MAF table and 3000g/s limit. I "full" flashed the 2008 OS over the 2007 one in my spare ECM and havent had any issues. (Helps when the donor platform is the same between the OSs.) Wonder if Elmer could do the same, anyone got a late 2007 Vette file with the 3000 g/s limit?

So yep, Simon you're dead on for the 2 vs. 1 MAF tables and g/s limits.

[turbo_bu]

I was wondering if this would be just a full flash of a newer OS, or if something else might be required. Like a different MAF sensor ... or if there was something physical inside of the E38 that was also updated (hardware change) to compensate for the added range. Anyone know if the MAF itself changed from say 2007 to 2008 on an E38 vehicle (like the TBSS's that ScarabEpic22 listed)?

[gmh308]

I was wondering if this would be just a full flash of a newer OS, or if something else might be required. Like a different MAF sensor ... or if there was something physical inside of the E38 that was also updated (hardware change) to compensate for the added range. Anyone know if the MAF itself changed from say 2007 to 2008 on an E38 vehicle (like the TBSS's that ScarabEpic22 listed)?

It's simply a 2008 OS - which supports the 3000g/s MAF. Only 2008 OS I have seen that doesnt support the 3000g/s MAF is the LS7.

Anyone have a 2008 TBSS that has been converted to regular electric fans?

[gmh308]

Just checked the 2007 TBSS (OS 12611938) file I have and compared it to my 2008 TBSS (OS 12618164). The 07 has the 2 MAF tables and 512g/s limit, the 08 has 1 MAF table and 3000g/s limit. I "full" flashed the 2008 OS over the 2007 one in my spare ECM and havent had any issues. (Helps when the donor platform is the same between the OSs.) Wonder if Elmer could do the same, anyone got a late 2007 Vette file with the 3000 g/s limit?



So the 2008 TBSS file went into the 2007 vehicle and ran it AOK? :)

[ScarabEpic22]

I was wondering if this would be just a full flash of a newer OS, or if something else might be required. Like a different MAF sensor ... or if there was something physical inside of the E38 that was also updated (hardware change) to compensate for the added range. Anyone know if the MAF itself changed from say 2007 to 2008 on an E38 vehicle (like the TBSS's that ScarabEpic22 listed)?

I doubt it, I simply bought the 07 ECM off my buddy and "full flashed" my 08 TBSS tune into it and changed the VIN. No hardware changes at all.


It's simply a 2008 OS - which supports the 3000g/s MAF. Only 2008 OS I have seen that doesnt support the 3000g/s MAF is the LS7.

Anyone have a 2008 TBSS that has been converted to regular electric fans?

Interesting, hope Im not confusing anyone because my TBSS is an E67 not E38.

Converting a TBSS file to efans is easy now that we have access to the fan parameters. At least it shows the tables, I assume the underlying code is there but I can tell for sure. Look at G0927 Fan Type, factory is set to Discrete.


So the 2008 TBSS file went into the 2007 vehicle and ran it AOK? :)

Yep, been running that setup for over a year now without any issues (after I changed the VIN manually).

[swingtan]

For those reading along.....

E67 != E38

While the flash from a lter OS to an earlier ECM has worked in the E67, it may not work in th E38. I'm sure there was a compatibility tables somewhere....

[ScarabEpic22]

For those reading along.....

E67 != E38

While the flash from a lter OS to an earlier ECM has worked in the E67, it may not work in th E38. I'm sure there was a compatibility tables somewhere....

Exactly what I was saying, just because it worked for me doesnt mean it will work with an E38. My donor 07 ECM already had a TBSS file in it so the ETC and underlying calibration were already setup for my truck.

[swingtan]

Found it....


http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9805-E38-E67-OS-compatibility-list

[gmh308]

Interesting, hope Im not confusing anyone because my TBSS is an E67 not E38.

Converting a TBSS file to efans is easy now that we have access to the fan parameters. At least it shows the tables, I assume the underlying code is there but I can tell for sure. Look at G0927 Fan Type, factory is set to Discrete.


No confusion here on E67/E38. We run both.

"TBSS file to efans is easy..." :) Pity it doesnt work :(.

[GMPX]

Found it....


http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?9805-E38-E67-OS-compatibility-list
This check is now built in to the software, you can't stuff it up unless you choose to bypass the check (which was requested). If an OS change is going to result in a corrupted ECM then we will warn you prior to flashing it.....pretty neat hey :)

[swingtan]

yes, I read that in the PDF notes. Very good idea that!

[ScarabEpic22]

No confusion here on E67/E38. We run both.

"TBSS file to efans is easy..." :) Pity it doesnt work :(.

I was wondering about the actual code being there or not...bummer. Well looks like Ill have to run a standalone controller after all when I go that way.


This check is now built in to the software, you can't stuff it up unless you choose to bypass the check (which was requested). If an OS change is going to result in a corrupted ECM then we will warn you prior to flashing it.....pretty neat hey :)

Slick stuff, I want to try and flash an Impala OS into my TBSS now just to see how it works! (But maybe Ill wait as I dont have spare E67s around.)

[gmh308]

This check is now built in to the software, you can't stuff it up unless you choose to bypass the check (which was requested). If an OS change is going to result in a corrupted ECM then we will warn you prior to flashing it.....pretty neat hey :)

Certainly a great option to have in the free world! :) The freedom to brick your ECM. Cool! :) Most appreciated! :)

[eboggs_jkvl]

So a late model 2007 ECM with the 3000 limit can be used in place of the one I have? You guys take off on tangents that I end up saying "Huh?" too much.

Was that the conclusion? If so, I now need a full flash in it for a 2007?/2008? operating system that runs in the _______ year/car. My MAF is not stock anymore, nor is my MAP (2.5 bar). E-Force has replaced the MAF with a different one and I believe they are using the MAF for the entire range of the SC (excluding the PE function).

[gmh308]

So a late model 2007 ECM with the 3000 limit can be used in place of the one I have? You guys take off on tangents that I end up saying "Huh?" too much.

Was that the conclusion? If so, I now need a full flash in it for a 2007?/2008? operating system that runs in the _______ year/car. My MAF is not stock anymore, nor is my MAP (2.5 bar). E-Force has replaced the MAF with a different one and I believe they are using the MAF for the entire range of the SC (excluding the PE function).

Model year 08 OS. Same vehicle. And cross your fingers. :)

Why X your fingers? GM changes the CAN messaging year to year on most platforms as they add features and revisions. If your lucky the 08 OS will work in your Vette. MZ6 - M6 right? Thats simpler again than if it was an A6.

If you flash an 08 OS into your 07 controller, generally it will probably work. The VIN will move 4 characters and require a VIN change though to get it right again. You wont really know it works 100% until you try it. If you are concerned then best advice is to get an 08 ECM to change the 07 out with.

:)

[eboggs_jkvl]

Now that I understand! Get an 08 ECM and swap it out.

Thanks

Elmer

[ScarabEpic22]

Yep, sorry for the tangent Elmer. Get an 08 (or late 07) OS and full flash it into your 07 ECM, if that doesnt work put the regular OS back in and buy an 08 ECM with an 08 OS.

[Chuck CoW]

I doubt it, I simply bought the 07 ECM off my buddy and "full flashed" my 08 TBSS tune into it and changed the VIN. No hardware changes at all.



Interesting, hope Im not confusing anyone because my TBSS is an E67 not E38.

Converting a TBSS file to efans is easy now that we have access to the fan parameters. At least it shows the tables, I assume the underlying code is there but I can tell for sure. Look at G0927 Fan Type, factory is set to Discrete.



Yep, been running that setup for over a year now without any issues (after I changed the VIN manually).


NO NO NO, you can't do that with an E38!!!

if you put an 08 OS into an 06 or 07 Corvette, you'll kill the pcm.:doh2:

Elmer my boy...

Just Don't scale the calibration....Florida's flat! No big change in altitude...

Just unscale that bad boy like I did for you and you're good.

The maf limit of 512 can not be changed....

Elmer, did you ever get the fuel pump and pull the blower off???

Chuck CoW

[Chuck CoW]

If you flash an 08 OS into your 07 controller, generally it will probably work. The VIN will move 4 characters and require a VIN change though to get it right again. You wont really know it works 100% until you try it. If you are concerned then best advice is to get an 08 ECM to change the 07 out with.



NO NO NO NO NO NO.... You can play between years with E67s but NOT E38s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chuck CoW

[swingtan]

Hey chuck, can you get a bigger sig please? I can't quite read that one..... :D

Merry Christmas all

[ScarabEpic22]

Good to know E38s dont play btw years, so Elmer you can either scale everything and deal with the 512g/s limit or gamble on buying an 08 ECM and hope it works.

[Chuck CoW]

Good to know E38s dont play btw years, so Elmer you can either scale everything and deal with the 512g/s limit or gamble on buying an 08 ECM and hope it works.

What are we trying to do here anyway????

An 08 ECM won't run the car..Don't waste your time... It don't work. BCM won't be happy.

you can't even switch 06 and 07 OSs in the vettes.... It WILL drive in 06/07 but guess what the complication will be?!??????

Chuck CoW

[GMPX]

NO NO NO, you can't do that with an E38!!!

if you put an 08 OS into an 06 or 07 Corvette, you'll kill the pcm.:doh2:
We did add a check in the software a few releases ago to ensure this won't happen to our customers, if you try to flash an ECM with an incompatible OS you will get a warning before the process begins.
It can be a little tricky, don't always assume it's based on the year model of the car. For example, 2007 to 2009 LS7 Vette is exchangeable (as far as not killing the ECM), yet 2008 to 2009 LS3 Vette is not.
We try to look after you all :grin:

[eboggs_jkvl]

NO NO NO, you can't do that with an E38!!!

if you put an 08 OS into an 06 or 07 Corvette, you'll kill the pcm.:doh2:

Elmer my boy...

Just Don't scale the calibration....Florida's flat! No big change in altitude...

Just unscale that bad boy like I did for you and you're good.

The maf limit of 512 can not be changed....

Elmer, did you ever get the fuel pump and pull the blower off???

Chuck CoW


I was just "white boarding"! I certainly don't want to upset my BCM and have it go into a hissy-fit while making my PCM a paperweight.

I am working on the pump replacement. The Aeromotive Stealth 340 looks like it has some very good flow at 13.5v. I'm checking with Harrison to make sure he has no problem with using that pump rather than the lower flowing Z06. I plan on removing the BAP and just running that one pump at a solid 13.5v.

After the pump change, and looking to see if the dieseling is still there, we will do the lift of the SC to check the seals to look for damage.

Since the problem appears to NOT be the tune, I'm going to load my local guy's non-scaled tune and use that after the work is done and then we will reset the PE to make sure everything is good in that department.


Elmer

[ScarabEpic22]

What are we trying to do here anyway????

An 08 ECM won't run the car..Don't waste your time... It don't work. BCM won't be happy.

you can't even switch 06 and 07 OSs in the vettes.... It WILL drive in 06/07 but guess what the complication will be?!??????

Chuck CoW

Trying to overcome the 512g/s MAF problem by using an 08 ECM/OS combo. If you've tried it and the BCM doesnt play nice, then if you have the limit you're SOL I guess. Glad the E67 is a little more flexible than the E38 in Vettes!

No point in swapping 06/07 OSs, still have the 512g/s issue.

[ringram]

IFR is usually the larger issue as you can dump the MAF and run SD anyway.... Or TPS..

[eboggs_jkvl]

Chuck

I'm running the new pump. I have no fuel issues.

We took off the SC and replaced the gaskets. Did not help with my problem.

We swapped out all 8 fuel injectors with another new set. Did not help with my problem.

1 new tune from Edelbrock. Did not help with my problem.

1 new tune from SCT. Did not help with my problem.





Elmer

[Chuck CoW]

Chuck

I'm running the new pump. I have no fuel issues.

We took off the SC and replaced the gaskets. Did not help with my problem.

We swapped out all 8 fuel injectors with another new set. Did not help with my problem.

1 new tune from Edelbrock. Did not help with my problem.

1 new tune from SCT. Did not help with my problem.

Elmer


Hey Elmer... To be honest, I always knew the fuel system was bad. Not necessarily the pump bad, but bad install.

I get calls from people all over the country with similar E-Force problems. Sad thing is that 99% of the time, the fuel

issues are caused by improper install of the pump.... go ahead, ask me how I know.... :(

I know you don't want to hear it, but I would pull the plugs first and then if necessary the heads.

The Blower is NOT the problem. Your tuner was making WOT pulls on a car that we now know

was SUPER LEAN and it's possible that you hurt a plug or valve or something else making a tiny hot spot

which is causing your run on.

If you remember, we made some WOT passes with no problem then, without any real tuning changes, it went lean and popped back.

Obviously, it was super lean to do that and we both knew right away that you had a fuel problem.

Damage may be done.... Who knows, but rest assured...Your problem is NOT with the E-Force or the Edelbrock tune.

Honestly, I do very few E-force installs without a fuel pressure gauge...

Check your plugs first....and consider pulling the heads.

My tune made it better... But, it was still there.

Please keep me posted on this...

Chuck CoW

[eboggs_jkvl]

The A/F was monitored at all times by a wide band O2 sensor and it did not go lean. The Plugs were TR6 but I changed those out myself with the ZR1 .040 AC 41-104 plugs. What ever happened that night we were running and it went lean is beyond my explanation. I do NOT know the cause. Maybe the BAP failed? I do know that the A/F was monitored and it didn't go lean on the dyno. It is not pinging now during boost runs and the A/F is holding in the low 11s. It is just doing the damn diesel thing at shut down.

Elmer