Calc.VET: correcting MAF and calculating VE (in single log)

[joecar]

Ninety9C5, good point regarding the 1997/1998's.

[joecar]

Good NBO2 in closed loop (i.e. trimming properly) will show these characteristics during steady part throttle:
- swinging faster than 2 complete cycles per second;
- swinging above 600 mV and below 300 mV;
- the average voltage will be close to 450 mV.

If they switch slower than 3 cycles per second, the the trimming will lag a little behind.
If they switch without going above 600 mV or below 300 mV then a DTC will trigger.
If the average mV deviates significantly from 450 mV then the trimming will be to some unknown AFR.

I find I have to replace NBO2's every 60K-70K miles... they do not go 100K as everyone believes.

[MikeyC]

Where at?

[MikeyC]

Sorry... I tried the "Reply With Quote" and screwed it up. I'm looking for the CALC.DYNAIRTMP formula previously posted. I have a 98 OS (F-Body)... just started reading this thread yesterday. Trying to learn everything about Calculated PIDs from scratch via hours of reading and safe experimenting. If you have a link to the actual formula that would be great.

Thanks

[WeathermanShawn]

For OS id's 19980100, 1998020, 19980400 the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA is not defined... so you use CALC.DYNAIRTMP instead.

I updated Page 1 of the CALC.VET thread to support the 1997 Corvette and 1998 Camaro & Trans-Am, including the exact calc_pids.txt and Pids you must select:http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-A-New-Twist-on-CALC.-VE-Table..Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table.&p=135867&viewfull=1#post135867

[MikeyC]

Nice...Thanks

[rpmauto]

wow, I just put new o2s in and my trims went to positive 22% at idle. The other ones were less than a year old, less than 500 miles on them. The only reason I put them in was because at cruise I would get bank one having a like 1.6 positive trim and bank 2 was zero. I am logging the bank one 02 and it was fine before. I still get a deviance between banks, but i think the changes from this log will straighten it right up.

I guess goes to show you how different parts react. Should have it nailed down again after another log. I will post this one just so you guys can see what a difference it is. Remember that the last tune was spot on. Perfect trims, ect.. the only change was the o2 sensors.

[WeathermanShawn]

Interesting.

Looks like the change was mainly at Idle. Rest of your log looks pretty decent.

I bet you get it straightened out in another log or two.

Thanks for the information..:)

[WeathermanShawn]

Len, I notice you rarely get any KR.

I take it you are running a 160F Thermostat. Any tips how you are keeping KR minimal.

[rpmauto]

Yea,
I do have a 160 t-stat. I love it.

I am liking the no KR this year. Honestly I havent changed anything in the tune as far as knock sensor sensitivity or anything. It is still stock settings. I am only running 25 or 26 degrees of timing in the upper end if I remember. I need to get to a dyno and play with the timing and see if I can gain anything.

I did see in the tune there is a place for either ls2 type sensors or ls1. I have ls1 sensors in the ls2 location (side of block) I though about changing that and seeing what it did, but I know the sensors work. I did get a bit of KR on a couple logs this year. And oddly enough last year on the 98 pcm I would get like 2.5 degrees of kr on every wot shift. With the pcm swap that is all gone now.

I hope to make a log this evening and see what the trims are at. It just floored me to see the trims go so positive from just a o2 sensor change. Yes it was for the most part at idle, but wow, what a difference. The old ones were not bad, they switched good, the heaters were good. I assume it is just the different sensors reading differently.

[rpmauto]

Take a look at this log and let me know what you think. Selbens are perfect, wot air fuel averages out to be perfect. But I dont understand the variance i have between banks on trims. One time I will look over when I am driving and bank one is at positive 5 and bank 2 is -2%. I dont have any exhaust leaks. It didnt do this till I put the new o2 sensors in. If you look at the average for the log it all looks good, but if you pick parts of it apart it looks funky. Maybe I shouldnt worry about it so much. I do now though I see have a .8 fuel trim at wot that I didnt have before. I assume I should tweak the maf table to take care of that.

Anyway let me know what you think and if you would do anything further, as far as getting the trims in line.

[WeathermanShawn]

Well I guess you could drop SAE.SPARKADV and perhaps VSS Pid and log both GM.HO2S11 & GM.HO2S21.

I don't know if just matching different O2's would be the culprit. I guess you could always switch the O2's (banks) and see if the annoying imbalance follows.

I agree it would drive me crazy too.

I don't think it is anything in the Tune that is the culprit..

[joecar]

Good log :cheers:

Also log GM.DYNAIR [g/s]... drop IAT and ECT if necessary.

MAF signal starts oscilliating (or something) above 4000 rpm, the oscillations look big... that has me a little concerned.

[rpmauto]

Joe, I see the oscillations of the maf hz. I looked back at some of last years logs and those look good. Some oscillation, but not much. That is kinda concerning. The maf is a delco 85 mm z06 unit, so it doesnt have a screen. I wonder if that is why the airflow at higher rpm isnt smooth. I will try and get a log between raindrops today. I dropped vss, spark, kr. I have 25 pids and 21 channels selected.

What exactly is GM.DYNAIR, the pcms calculation of expected air vs. other conditions?

Also, what rates are your scantool set up at. Mine seems slower. I see the variance, but it isnt as bad on my log.

[joecar]

GM.DYNAIR is airflow [g/s] based on VE.

I want to compare MAF to DYNAIR.

We also want to compare CYLAIR_DMA (MAF based) to DYNCYLAIR_DMA (VE based), you're already logging these.

See post #2 here: showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)


With Logging Scan Mode set to Stream Fast, the logging rate should be 10 updates/second with 24 or less pid channels (i.e. about 0.1 second between each sample point).

[rpmauto]

Got a good log in tonite. Before the log I swapped in two more brand new a/c delco afs123 o2 sensors. And made a change to the hood opening on the car to see if that would maybe have some effect on the unstable maf at upper rpms. Log looks really good. o2s are switching good. Trims look great (other than at idle, that needs some more ve, or maf table work now I think) And it looks like the major oscillation in the maf is gone. There is still some, but at least on my scantool it looks better. I logged the pids that Joecar said to for comparison. Take a look at it and let me know what you think.

[WeathermanShawn]

Wow, Len you have some of the best logs.

You have nailed the Trims and your fueling looks close to perfect in PE Mode and WOT.

Maybe changing both O2 sensors at the same time helped equalize the banks.

To me your MAF Freq still looks like there is some turbulence, but then I don't normally ever hit 13,000 on the MAF Frequency.:grin:..Even though it oscillates to some degree it looks like you still maintain the same EQ/AFR during your WOT runs.

As far as tune-wise, you have nailed another one.

Good job!

[rpmauto]

Thank you Shawn, living in a rural area really helps with getting good logs for wot stuff. I am very pleased with the tune. Now I can address the slight surge and some other things.

I do still have to get my idle trims in line, last log they were as high as +11. I didnt log spark, so unless i change the filter I cant use the data from last nite. But as far as idle goes, is it better to adjust the maf table, or the ve table to get your trims in line. I think the ve table is pretty close as it hasnt changed much in the last several logs, so I am leaning to the maf table for getting the idle trims back in line.

[WeathermanShawn]

Len, my Idle theories are that on a MAF-Enabled vehicle, it is still primarily the MAF that affects Idle Trims such as LTFT's. You see the VE Table's influence primarily on cold-open loop start-up.

It gets tricky manipulating the MAF Frequency for Idle, because sometimes the same airflow is present at 0% TPS or low load. So just do the best you can.

The tight CALC.VET filter that has Spark in it, is to try to filter out DFCO transitions. Lately, I have just been trying to suggest Tuners disable DFCO as I have seen better results that way. You can still use the other tight parameters and just drop spark.

Thanks for all your logs. You have helped show that 100% WOT is the best way to dial in PE Mode..like you said not as easy to do if you live in an urban area..:grin:.

[s10mods]

I followed the CALC.VET pdf, I set up everything and ran a log, applied filters, but when I copy the values fromt the CALC.VET map, the values are low (1.3-2.5) and my VE values are high, 70's and 80's. so when I copy and paste it makes my VE talbe all screwed up, am I pasting wrong? I did a copy with labels and a paste with labels.

[WeathermanShawn]

Sounds like your Units don't match..

NOTE: for map Data, use the CALC.VET pid units that match your B0101 table, i.e. either % or g*K/kPa.

To display units on a map: go to map properties, on each of the Data, Row, Col tabs, checkmark Show Units.

[joecar]

I followed the CALC.VET pdf, I set up everything and ran a log, applied filters, but when I copy the values fromt the CALC.VET map, the values are low (1.3-2.5) and my VE values are high, 70's and 80's. so when I copy and paste it makes my VE talbe all screwed up, am I pasting wrong? I did a copy with labels and a paste with labels.Do what Shawn said.

Post screenshots of your VET map and your VE table.

[s10mods]

Here are the screenshots. It looks like they match. I also attached my tune and log file.

[Taz]

Looks like the VE table in your tune is in percent (%) and your CALC VET table is in gK/kPa ... like apples and oranges ... can only compare (update) them if they are in the same units.


Regards,
Taz

[s10mods]

Can I just change the units in my tune?

[s10mods]

I see where I messed up now. I wasnt looking at the Units, I was looking at kpa and thought they matched. I changed my units in the tune tool.
Thank you for your help

[joecar]

Can I just change the units in my tune?Yes, go Edit->Properties and look at the VE units, select g*K/kPa; then restart the tunetool.


I see where I messed up now. I wasnt looking at the Units, I was looking at kpa and thought they matched. I changed my units in the tune tool.
Thank you for your helpOh, you did it, cool :cheers:

[68sstt]

Can anyone tell me if this tuning method is suitable for my application.
I have an e38 boosted and it retains the maf but pegs the maf at around 5500rpm
I am running e85 and have an analogue wideband and a pid to suit

thanks

[WeathermanShawn]

68sstt:

Its only been tested on the GEN III-LS series. The dynamic and interplay of the MAF and VE are unique to this application. All the Pids are also set up exclusively for the LS1 series.

So, the general answer is no. There are some excellent E38 Tutorials that should be able to help you out.

Thanks for your interest.

[WeathermanShawn]

The CALC.VET Tutorial (PDF Version) has been updated..http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-A-New-Twist-on-CALC.-VE-Table..Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table.

1. Pid Image/Text match page 1 of the CALC.VET Thread
2. Link to CALC.VET Thread repaired
3. Closed-Loop portion Updated
4. Draft Copy designation removed.

[ippielb]

Great tutorial, helped me a lot once i downloaded the PDF and put it in a binder for easy access!

[WeathermanShawn]

Thanks for the compliment. We appreciate it.

For those who want more detailed/advanced information on Tuning via CALC.VET, we have started a page of 'Summary Notes'. Its all preliminary work, but it gives some data on how to blend your MAF and VE Table, along with some other tips..http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16280-CALC-VET-Summary-Notes

Again, just preliminary notes we are working on..

[WeathermanShawn]

Joecar has come up with an idea to 'reverse' the CALC.VET Equation(s) to solve for MAF Airflow. I think it is a great idea. If there is enough interest we will start another thread.

Here is a brief introduction of the concept..

CALC.VET has been a huge success. One can calculate the VE Table, MAF, and Trims all in one log (simultaneously). However, AUTOVE is still hugely popular. There are some users who have a perfectly tuned VE Table, but who may desire to re-enable the MAF. Previously AUTOMAF has been the only method (unofficially) to calibrate the MAF after AUTOVE.

Now we believe we can take a VE Table and reverse the equation to solve for the MAF Airflow. So AUTOVE users now have a way to calibrate the MAF in the same log.

This may interest some Tuners. We will let you know, probably by starting a new thread shortly..

..Thanks..

[Mr. P.]

...CALC.VET has been a huge success...
Yes it has; however it requires a MAF (not a bad thing!) but is there any of this process/thinking we SD guys can leverage?

Mr. P. :)

[WeathermanShawn]

Yea, the MAF thing..:grin:..

Originally it was designed for 'Beginners'..hence the MAF.

Well I didn't want to mention it, but..in reality you can apply a number of CALC.VET concepts to 'straight' Open-loop Tuning or pure SD Tuning.

The nature of SELBENS can be utilized whether doing MAF only, SD only, closed-loop, open loop or a combination of any/all. The easiest parallel would be SDCL. Disable the MAF, and use LTFT and WO2BENS using MAP and RPM as your MAP axis. You would just have to reconfigure the calc_pids.txt file to eliminate some of the Pids.

The reason I have not wanted to introduce all of the possible combinations was quite simply anticipating 'workload' and interest. I do all the Tutorials in my spare time and I hate to do anything half-a.. So, I was waiting until someone showed some interest.

But to answer your question..in reality you do not need a MAF to utilize simultaneous closed & open loop SD tuning. But, it might be nice to have a corresponding MAF airflow. You never know when you or a potential customer might want to go back to the MAF.

Let me know. I can always work something up..

P.S. Attachment shows both LTFTBEN and WO2BEN (AFR/EQ). This was all done in one simple log. So you would apply that BEN to your existing VE Table..and you could easily calculate a corresponding MAF Airflow (just in case)..

[Mr. P.]

Thanks Shawn - yeah I'm definitely interested; I'll digest what you've shared here, I'm still "absorbing". :thumbs:

Mr. P. :)

[WeathermanShawn]

Mr.P..

Let me think it over (presentation). I'll need to confer with Joecar as far as the calc_pids.txt and a few other issues.

1. If you are doing a pure Open-Loop SD Tune, this method would also calculate a corresponding MAF Airflow vs MAF Frequency. That may or may not be of use to a Tuner.

2. You can however do a simultaneous Closed-Loop SD Tune in combination with a wideband. So in one log you can Tune a VE Table using Trims and actual wideband data. And you could also have a corresponding MAF airflow if you desire.

We will get back to you..:)

[joecar]

Yes, we want to make the calc_pids.txt file as easy as possible.

[Mr. P.]

...You can however do a simultaneous Closed-Loop SD Tune in combination with a wideband...

Well this is the situation I am personally in. I understand it's unfeasible to go through the effort of crafting a tutorial process covering each conceivable hardware setup, BUT I offer that there are lots of fellas like me using COS-3 in CLSD, especially in the Gen-III truck crowd where it is now more common than not to add a significant power adder and drop the MAF sensor in the process; my point to you being, everyone who spends the dollars and time to run COS-3 should also have a functioning wideband especially when you can get a really good one for under $300 now - I would not even entertain attempting to explain to anyone how to "dial-in" a tune without a wideband, it's accepted best-practice.


...make the calc_pids.txt file as easy as possible.
Understood - not all of us are software developers!

Well I'm seriously game to working on this with you, including testing on my vehicle as well as assisting with dev work and adding documentation; lemme know.

Mr. P. :)

[WeathermanShawn]

O.K. we will work something up.

Luckily have been thinking about the CLSD for a while, so I think we can get something going. Joecar's brainstorm on solving for the MAF Airflow equivalent is quite an important breakthrough. While I have seen other methods that attempt to 'convert' DYNAIR to CYLAIR, none use the DYNAIRTMP.DMA Pid or concept.

The actual R&D of this method may not be as exhaustive as the MAF-Enabled concept. Its always good to fail the MAF, try it out in both Open and Closed-Loop. Then compare those results to a MAF-only Tune. They should match.

But new ideas and concepts are always exciting. And the SD crowd has not had any new Tuning methods of late.

Look for something in the next few days. Thanks for your interest..

[WeathermanShawn]

Well I'm seriously game to working on this with you, including testing on my vehicle as well as assisting with dev work and adding documentation; lemme know.
Mr. P. :)

We may take you up on this offer. The basic concept would be to take an existing VE Table (stock or otherwise), put the vehicle in closed-loop..attach wideband.

The pids selected would apply the LTFT Trims or WO2 reading (BEN). The computer code will 'know' if the vehicle is in closed-loop or PE Mode. After a log, you could apply the SELBEN correction to your existing VE Table. So VE Table, Trims all in one log. And you could have an accurate MAF Airflow equivalent should need you need it.

Once we get the thread going, you might be able to help us out with a log or two?

Thanks..

[Mr. P.]

I'll start tonight. :excited:

Mr. P. :)

[WeathermanShawn]

For those users that want additional information on Calculating MAF Airflow from the VE Table...CALC.VET in Reverse, see this thread: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?16413-Calculating-MAF-Airflow-From-VE-Table..CALC-VET-In-Reverse

A link has also been provided on Page 1 (Appendix) of the CALC.VET Thread: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-A-New-Twist-on-CALC.-VE-Table..Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table.

[Whipped383]

I am Running cos3 with a innovate lc1 wideband any tips you can give me on doing this with E10 fuel that I have in my area? Currently I use a ben spreadsheet that calculates for the E10 can that still be used?

[joecar]

Hi W383,

Buy a test kit which measures alcohol content in gasoline ($30), it has a chart showing stoich AFR for alcohol %.

True E10 (exactly 10%) has stoich AFR 14.12.

Edit B3601 to be the stoich AFR of your fuel.

Then log GM.EQIVRATIO and EXT.WO2LAM1 (you need a null modem serial cable between LC-1 and V2), the BEN correction is {GM.EQIVRATIO}*{EXT.WO2LAM1}... see WeathermanShawn's Calc.VET and Calc.MAFT tutorials, they include calc_pids.txt files with the BEN pid.

By using eqr and/or lambda, you avoid the AFR dependency on stoich AFR [i.e. AFR = Lambda * stoichAFR ]... i.e. EQR 1.18 is sufficiently rich for PE regardless of E00, E10, E20 (if understand my Exx meaning).

You can use your spreadsheet to sanity check the BEN pid... can you post it here please.

This shows the whole point of the EFILive software: to make tuning exercise simple/easy/quick and self-contained.

[s10mods]

When i try to paste and multiply my MAF table it just maxes out most of it, am I pasting it wrong?

[WeathermanShawn]

Hard to know from that description.

Can you post a screenshot?

One thing for sure it if you do it exactly as the Tutorial has it, you should have no problem.

Its probably a digit issue, but please post up..:)

[s10mods]

Here are some screenshots, I must be doing something wrong cause it sure dont look right lol. Some info on the car if needed, its a 95 impala, LT1 with aftermarket heads and cam, with the 24x eficonnection system running on a 2002 computer. The first pic is the scantool, the 2nd is the tune tool before paste and the 3rd is after paste.
THanks.

[joecar]

Your map shows cell counts... it should be showing average cell value, click the x-bar (average) button, see pic attached.

Before you do the paste-multiply sanity check your cell values (they should all be close to 1.00, question any cells that are far).

Also, you can constrain the cell width, see attached pic.

[Frozen WS6]

I finally got to get a good log on my 98 after fixing a couple other issues.
Could someone refresh my memory. On my VET average map, is .98 perfect and anything above (higher numbers like 2.27) lean?

[joecar]

I finally got to get a good log on my 98 after fixing a couple other issues.
Could someone refresh my memory. On my VET average map, is .98 perfect and anything above (higher numbers like 2.27) lean?On the B0101 map: 0.98 and 2.27 look like g*K/kPa values... are these the units you're using...?

On the B5001 map: 0.98 is good value (it's a correction of only 2%); but 2.27 is not a sane value.

Post pic of your maps.

[Frozen WS6]

On the B0101 map: 0.98 and 2.27 look like g*K/kPa values... are these the units you're using...?

On the B5001 map: 0.98 is good value (it's a correction of only 2%); but 2.27 is not a sane value.

Post pic of your maps.

I do have my map set up as you posted g k/kpa. That's why I had to ask, since those numbers seemed off.

I have to ask. Where will I find the how to post maps off of my scan and what program does it? I've looked through my scan tool user guide and didn't see it. It could be there but I didn't know it.

Thanks

[joecar]

I do have my map set up as you posted g k/kpa. That's why I had to ask, since those numbers seemed off.

I have to ask. Where will I find the how to post maps off of my scan and what program does it? I've looked through my scan tool user guide and didn't see it. It could be there but I didn't know it.

Thanks Hosting-an-Image (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image)

[s10mods]

Your map shows cell counts... it should be showing average cell value, click the x-bar (average) button, see pic attached.

Before you do the paste-multiply sanity check your cell values (they should all be close to 1.00, question any cells that are far).

Also, you can constrain the cell width, see attached pic.

Thanks for the help, I feel pretty dumb that it was so simple lol.

[joecar]

Thanks for the help, I feel pretty dumb that it was so simple lol.No worries :cheers:
it's simple once you know how, otherwise it's a sea of buttons :)

[Frozen WS6]

Thanks. I hope these work.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm222/FrozenWS6/98%20TRANS%20AM%202/98TACALCVETSELBEN.png

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm222/FrozenWS6/98%20TRANS%20AM%202/98TACALCVETDATA2.png

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm222/FrozenWS6/98%20TRANS%20AM%202/98TACALCVETDATA1.png

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm222/FrozenWS6/98%20TRANS%20AM%202/98TACALCVETVETMAP.png

This last pic is the pic of my VET average map with the odd numbers that are really high.

[joecar]

Are you using a wideband...?

[WeathermanShawn]

Frozen, maybe its my eyes..but the pics were too small for me to read..

I have the same question as Joecar..

[Frozen WS6]

I tried to post them larger and had no luck, not sure what I'm doing wrong there. That's why I tried to include the data pages so you could see all the pids being logged.

But I do have a Dyno jet WB 2. My logs seem to match the wideband numbers.

[WeathermanShawn]

Sorry, I can't read them.

What was your question/concern?

[Frozen WS6]

Bummer.
On m VET average map I have numbers as high as 2.44 and 2.47, and numerous cells over 2.0 in the upper rpms. Could it really be that lean? I know my wideband has read 17.x a few times at idle.

I just want to make sure I've got thing correct before I start my copy, and pasteing.

[WeathermanShawn]

Those numbers indicate your VE Table units are in g*k/kPa. There is no direct unit correlation between that and wideband AFR readings. I.E., it will be your BENS that indicate whether your lean or rich.

Are your SELBENS ~ 1.00 from 1500-12,000 Hz?

If cammed, Idle occasionally will go from ~14-17 AFR at Idle. Any more and yes that would be lean.

I suppose posting a Tune & Log would be better at this point. I'm not sure how to advise you whether your Tune is good to go yet..:confused:..

[joecar]

Frozen WS6,

try this: attach the pics directly in the post, i.e. in post #308 above, delete the url's, then click Manage Attachments and upload the files...

see post #2 here: Hosting-an-Image (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?3064-Hosting-an-Image&p=38410&viewfull=1#post38410)

[joecar]

What are your mods...?

[Frozen WS6]

Mods: 408 cid iron block, fast 92, 92 tb, ls6 ported+polished heads 2.08/1.60 valves, 11.7:1 compression, cam .248/.254 .622/.614 @114, kooks 1 7/8" stepped to 2" headers w/3.5" collectors, underdrive pulley.

340 intank walbro pump, highflow fuel rails, -8 fuel lines, 42.5lb fast injectors.

It is on spray but I'm working the NA tune right now.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm222/FrozenWS6/98%20TRANS%20AM%202/98TACALCVETSELBEN-1.png

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm222/FrozenWS6/98%20TRANS%20AM%202/98TACALCVETVETMAP-1.png

1123711236

[WeathermanShawn]

Frozen:

On your SELBEN Map..if you could change 'Cell Count' to 'Average Value'..that will allow us to see the actual data..

I see you had a max of 11.9 degrees of KR. Whats going on there?

[Frozen WS6]

I usually get knock at low rpms, mostly idle. But that was the first time I've seen so much. I think it's my coil. So I'm going to swap one off of my WS6 and see if it clears up. Here are a couple of other scans of the knock area and the upper rpms. Also I switched the Selben to averages.

112411124211243

[joecar]

Your scantool still has MAP in psi units (you want kPa)...

on PIDs tab: on SAE.MAP do rightclick->Metric.


Also: for maps A and B, in map properties goto each tab Data, Row, Col and checkmark Show Units and save the map.

[joecar]

Also, I don't see the pid CALC.VEN... you're using an older calc_pids.txt file.

[WeathermanShawn]

Also, Frozen is your SELBEN Table plotting vs MAF frequency or RPM?

At some point it might be easier to just attach the Log with all the MAPS you used.

I have a feeling their are some issues here that might not allow you to use this log..

[Frozen WS6]

Your scantool still has MAP in psi units (you want kPa)...

on PIDs tab: on SAE.MAP do rightclick->Metric.


Also: for maps A and B, in map properties goto each tab Data, Row, Col and checkmark Show Units and save the map.


Also, I don't see the pid CALC.VEN... you're using an older calc_pids.txt file.

Fixed and changed to the correct settings.

Correct I do Not have CALC.VEN selected.

[Frozen WS6]

Also, Frozen is your SELBEN Table plotting vs MAF frequency or RPM?

At some point it might be easier to just attach the Log with all the MAPS you used.

I have a feeling their are some issues here that might not allow you to use this log..

My SELBEN table is logging MAF frequency Hz.

I just did another drive and was able to get some wot logs. I noticed my alternator is not keeping up at idle (which means I'm loosing voltage to everything) and thats when I'm getting the knock. But at 3500 up to wot I'm not getting any knock. I'm going to see if I can find a new alternator tomarrow after work and get it installed. Then my only other thought was maybe it didn't like the 90 octain pump gas anymore.

Just let me know what images or whatever you guys want to see and I'll get them posted.
You guys are very helpful with this. Thanks.

[WeathermanShawn]

Frozen:

It just looks like your MAF Frequency Labels don't match your Tune Labels. Your log is every 400 Hz..Is that what you want? When you copy, paste & multiply you want your labels to match. Just keep that in mind.

My personal preference is the most recent Tune & Log. Unless one is highly skilled in posting attachments, a lot of data is missing.

I think you have 90% of this down..just a few outstanding issues. Its good you have the mechanical skills to fix your vehicle.

Post up your most recent Tune & Log when you get your mechanical issues straightened out..

[Frozen WS6]

Frozen:

It just looks like your MAF Frequency Labels don't match your Tune Labels. Your log is every 400 Hz..Is that what you want? When you copy, paste & multiply you want your labels to match. Just keep that in mind.

My personal preference is the most recent Tune & Log. Unless one is highly skilled in posting attachments, a lot of data is missing.

I think you have 90% of this down..just a few outstanding issues. Its good you have the mechanical skills to fix your vehicle.

Post up your most recent Tune & Log when you get your mechanical issues straightened out..

I just checked, it looks like in the tuner tool the maf is labled every 125 so I'll change it to that. But it looks like I have to enter each one in the Row Lables.
In the Scan Tool. Is it ok to have 400 hz as my lowest number in the map? Then add 125 to that and enter my next number (which would be 525) and so fourth?


Up here there isn't really anyone that does anything with these LSX engines. Let alone have and run one of this level. So I have to do things myself and if I don't know I learn it. Also it's nice having 2 cars so I can take a part off of one car and try it if I need to.

My tune isn't going to change until after I can get a clean log and I can start copy and pasting. But I'll get a new log up after I get the new alternator on it.

[joecar]

You don't need to enter each label...



Goto table B5001, click in upper left corner, then rightclick->Copy With Labels...

then in map Row and Col tabs click Paste Labels.

[joecar]

Hi Shawn,

Attached here is a new calc_pids.txt which replaces CALC.PE with CALC.CL just as we discussed today.


Edit: I found an error due to my editing skills :doh2: (== should be =), so I corrected and re-attached the file.

[joecar]

Update: Shawn has updated the calc_pids.txt file in post #1.

[WeathermanShawn]

All of the calc_pids.txt file have been updated on Page 1 of this thread: http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-A-New-Twist-on-CALC.-VE-Table..Computing-the-Entire-VE-Table.&p=135867&viewfull=1#post135867

The changes allow for a more precise definition of closed-loop vs PE. The only time a user should encounter trouble is if they have changed their PE EQ to 1.00 (don't ever recommend that) or changed a majority of Table B3605 to read EQ's of 1.00.

Otherwise the Pid is a very accurate definer of closed-loop.

The Tutorial will take some more time to update.

Thank you for your patience.

[joecar]

Shawn, Thanks :cheers: I'll sanity check those later today.

[rpmauto]

Shawn, Joe, did the other calc-pids get updated? Such as the veiw afr set, and the one for earlier OS?? I still like to use those, but if they are not the most up to date, I wont.

[WeathermanShawn]

Yes. All 3 got updated on that page..

[WeathermanShawn]

The CALC.VET Tuning Tutorial has been updated.

1. calc_pids.txt file (and images) updated to include newer Closed-loop Pid (Pages 4 & 5).
2. Typo HO2S11 changed to HO2S21 (Page 5).
3. Final Pid Selection Image update (Page 6)
4. Tight Filter Image Updated (Page 10).
5. Closed-Loop Filter Image Updated (Page 11).

A few Notes..The CALC.VET Tuning Tutorial is a volunteer effort. Author is WeathermanShawn with major contributions and Editorial review by Joecar.

Originally the Tutorial was not to be published until October 2011. As a convenience it was released April, 2011.

The Tutorial has not undergone final review..there may still be further enhancements of Pids, etc to help streamline the process. As a volunteer effort (unpaid), please keep this in mind when suggesting improvements, additions, corrections, etc. It is somewhat of a meticulous and laborious process to update the Tutorial..so we are trying to keep changes to a minimum.

Thank you for your understanding and patience.

Enjoy your Tuning!

..WeathermanShawn..

[joecar]

Thanks Shawn :cheers:

Pics of maps look good :cheers:

I've been reading thru and sanity checking everything.

[voda1]

For the 97-98 pid selection CYLAIR_DMA and DYNCYLAIR_DMA are not valid pids. Are they required? All the other pids validated ok.

[joecar]

No those are not required, we use them simply as a reference to compare MAF and VE.



Edit: Shawn passed away on this day, we are all very saddened by this, please see the link on post #1.

[Dieselman]

Hello everybody,

Attempting to tune my first LS1 for a workmate so be gentle :grin:

How do I get all the Calc Pids to come up when I BBL. I have put them all in with S+T and did a short log but the calc pids didn't come up when I opened it with the scantool. I am attempting a Mafless tune on a Holden VY Commodore. OS is 129003. I will be going back to CL running STFT's if that is possible??

Attached is my Auto VE tune and a short log. I have put a screenshot of my BBL setup page too

11454

11455

11456


Thanks in advance

Ben

[joecar]

Hi Ben,

Remove the =None from each of the calc pid names shown in your pic.

[joecar]

Ben, since you're in OL then you will use WO2BEN only to correct the VE table.

[Dieselman]

Thanks Joecar.


I took away the last bit and it all worked fine.


Cheers

Ben

[Frozen WS6]

I figured out what was causing lean numbers in the logs on my car. My fuel pump was failing and has failed. So I'm waiting for the new one and get it installed so I can try to start tuning again.

[joecar]

I figured out what was causing lean numbers in the logs on my car. My fuel pump was failing and has failed. So I'm waiting for the new one and get it installed so I can try to start tuning again.Let us know how you go... :)

[pormgb]

I'm about to run Calc VET for the first time and have a few questions.

Do I perform Calc VET for IDLE as with calc VE (Idle Tips & Tricks)?

While logging, do I simply drive the car to WOT to address the full RPM range?

[2005 silverado]

In a nut shell i have NO idea what im doing, as far as tuning im trying. That is, just trying. I have followed the layed out instructions and right now i am at the Filter part. What do i want to filter exactly.

Any help would be appreciated, even if its just someone saying, get off my butt and figure it out.

Dustin

[JoshH]

I must be retarded because I can't figure out how I get from recording a log to getting the calc.vet map. I have searched, and I can't find anything that tells me what to use to create the map either. Can someone please point me to something. I'm lost here. It's information overload!

[SOMhaveit]

Go to the first post and at the bottom of that post is a link to download the CALC.VET Tuning Tutorial. Under Item #3 at the top of the page in bold lettters is:

CREATE CALC.VET {B0101} MAP

Follow the 15 steps. You'll be good to go.

[JoshH]

Go to the first post and at the bottom of that post is a link to download the CALC.VET Tuning Tutorial. Under Item #3 at the top of the page in bold lettters is:

CREATE CALC.VET {B0101} MAP

Follow the 15 steps. You'll be good to go.Thank you!

[johnmaster]

In a nut shell i have NO idea what im doing, as far as tuning im trying. That is, just trying. I have followed the layed out instructions and right now i am at the Filter part. What do i want to filter exactly.

Any help would be appreciated, even if its just someone saying, get off my butt and figure it out.

DustinYou are logging data and it is storing that data (in the background) in maps that you define ahead of time. Make sure when you click on the maps tab and select a and check b to see that you have two tables ready to accept data that you log when you are driving.

This data is going to contain a bunch of junk that you don't want, ie during low or high coolant temp, fast throttle movement, low rpm, and excessively rich conditions. You only want the readings from a warm engine when you were applying steady throttle etc. The filter gets rid of all the junk.

So to complete step three from the screenshot on the first post of this thread, once you have populated the table with your data after you log your drive, you go to the filter settings and make a filter you can call CALC.VE so it's easy to remember.

On the maps tab, click edit filter settings (Ctrl+Alt+Enter), click new, enter CALC.VE as the name and click ok.
In the dialog box, you should see CALC.VE at the top, now you want to give it the conditions to filter out.
Under Filter control select "Exclude data frames" so that it excludes all of this garbage from the data you mapped. Your first parameter can be Engine Coolant Temp and make sure you use the same units you logged (F or C). Filter type should be "less than" and then enter 176 for 176 degrees F. "join using" AND or OR can only be changed after you add it, so click add and you will see your condition listed in the white box at the bottom. You can change the condition to "OR" once you have set them all up.

You want to filter 5 different conditions out of this data so keep adding the other 4 just like above ie. coolant temp greater than 212F, TP changing more than 5% per 100 MS, RPM less than 800 as well as Lambda greater than 1.06. Use text at the bottom of the screenshot to verify you set them up correctly.

Click each one on the list and join it to the next by selecting the "OR" button for each condition so that it looks like the screenshot.

When you click ok, it calculates the cell contents but it filters out and excludes all data where coolant temp was less than 176F or greater than 212F or TP changed more than 5% per 100 MS or RPM was less than 800 or Lambda was greater than 1.06. (you may have to click the apply filter button to the left of the map "A" button.)

You can change these settings as you desire, for instance I had a ton of data so I used 10% per 100 ms TP change to get rid of even more data that may have been skewed from jerky throttle movements, but these should do the trick to get you onto your next step of copying this table into your VE table and smoothing it out.

Many thanks to Joe for helping me get this far, I am still new to this like you are, but he and others have spent a lot of thankless time to help us guys understand these complicated techniques.


EDIT***I was working for days off of the old tutorial included with my software:doh2: If you use the tutorial at the bottom of the original post you should have a MUCH easier time figuring this out:)!

[joecar]

John, good write up on filtering :cheers:

[johnmaster]

No problem, glad to be able to give info for once:) I'm getting it, slowly but surely. Oh, I found a dead cat in my airbox last night. Okay, not really a dead cat but a mouse nest or just a big bunch of random leaves and an air filter that probably hasn't been changed in this decade. I just bought this truck for this project and haven't been through it much yet, lots of maintenance catch up to do. Do you think that could have been the reason my logged VE was so low? Made a big dent in my Map compared to OEM. Thinking I would make another log tonight, I have a new cold air intake for my other truck, I put it on for the time being to learn how to do this. If you have some time can you look at my tune on the other thread? I am worried about how lean the truck was running during my last run and want to fix it before I go out again. Any ideas?

[joecar]

Yes, rodent nest is a restriction to airflow... especially if it causes a significant drop in MAP at WOT compared to BARO.

I couldn't look at your files today since this PC does not have the software installed... I'll take a look later tonite or early tomorrow.

[johnmaster]

Many Thanks!

[Samdogmx]

can someone please help me out? I'm very much a beginner at tuning trying to do this calcvet thing, I have all the pids selected and maps made but when I log & then go to the calc.vet map its just got 0.0 in all of the cells. What am I doing wrong?11755

[johnmaster]

The log file needs to know what size your engine is to calculate VE%. With that log file open click Edit>>log file information and select your engine size. You may need to save, close, reopen for it to take, I got lucky on that step.

Make your life easier by changing your units to G*K/Kpa instead of VE%. Also make sure you are working in EQ ratio (which from what I gather is the inverse of Lambda).

[Samdogmx]

thank you... I had set the engine size but didnt try saving closing & reopening that did it, thanks

[samuelkl]

Im new to this CalcVet can somebody check out my log and tune see if im doing ok for a newbie
The roads where water so i baby the car loging. Tomorrow we will be doing some WOT logs
This is a Stock LS7 in a 2002 Camaro with 460 RWHP

11851
11852

[joecar]

Is that .tun file the before file...?

The log file produces maps which look correct.

[samuelkl]

Yes joecar its the tune i logged with . i need to do these 1 thru 5 setting changes then log for 45 to 60 mins right .

1. B0701: Disable Catalytic Converter Protection
Insures accurate stoich and PE mode/WOT Fueling

2. B0120: Change RPM Threshold for Airflow Calculation from 4000 to 400
Eliminates any Airflow Correction from the VE Table

3. B3308: Disable DFCO: Change B3308 (M6) to 140C Change B3313 to 140C
Accurate fueling computations

4. B4105: O2 Switch-points to 450 Millivolts
Smoother MAF & VE Table

5. B3618: PE Modifier Based on Rpm (EQ): 1.16

[samuelkl]

the tune is before the log . i was going to go a better log before editing the tune. i think tomorrow we will be able the do a 45 min to 60 min log .

[joecar]

Ok.

[pormgb]

Just done done a Calc VET and things look good except my Idle, my idle is rich when cold, around 12.5 then goes up to around 14.5 when warm. I've also noticed that when slowing down my revs drop quite low but the motor doesn't stall. I didn't think a Calc VET would affect idle since you filter out cells below 800 rpm, I do see one cell at 800rpm-60kpa. Do I need to re tune Idle, I've also attached a copy of my Calc VET log.

Thanks!!

[wcj]

I must be doing something completely wrong.

6. Update Calibration, steps:

8. Select all cells in the table by clicking in the extreme top-left grey cell, then right click and select
Copy with labels (Shift+Ctrl+C).
9. Switch back to the EFILive Tuning Tool.
10. Open calibration {B0101} "Main VE Table".
11. Right click on any cell and select Paste->Paste with labels (Shift+Ctrl+V).

When I follow step 11, it completely jacks up my VE table because it replaces the VE values with the values from the CALC.VET map.

My CALC.VET map looks similar to the example shown on page 1.

11892

My VE table looks like this.

11891

Please tell me I just overlooked something very simple.

Thx.

[tor1965]

You must use the same unit g*/kpa or % in the tun ve table and in the log table.

[wcj]

You must use the same unit g*/kpa or % in the tun ve table and in the log table.

So if I understand it correctly, my VE is in % while my CALC.VET map is in g*/kpa? Does it require a relog or would a map change correctly adjust the necessary map values?

[joecar]

A relog is not required (the reason being that calc pids are involved, these can be edited and recalculated on the same log).

You could either of these:
- change the map data pid to CALC.VET.%,
- change the tunetool to display VE in g*K/kPa (see Edit->Properties).

If you use % units, you also have to enter engine displacement (see Edit->Log File Information)(be sure to save file after entering displacement in cc).

[wcj]

Ok, gotcha! Got it sync'd now. Thanks!

[joecar]

Just done done a Calc VET and things look good except my Idle, my idle is rich when cold, around 12.5 then goes up to around 14.5 when warm. I've also noticed that when slowing down my revs drop quite low but the motor doesn't stall. I didn't think a Calc VET would affect idle since you filter out cells below 800 rpm, I do see one cell at 800rpm-60kpa. Do I need to re tune Idle, I've also attached a copy of my Calc VET log.

Thanks!!Ok, you will have to work thru idle tuning to fix the rev stalling:



Idle Tuning
showthread.php?4661-Idle-Tuning-Helpful-Info-Inside (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?4661-Idle-Tuning-Helpful-Info-Inside)
showthread.php?14439-Idle-Tips-amp-Tricks (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14439-Idle-Tips-amp-Tricks)
showthread.php?5866-Auto-VE-questions (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?5866-Auto-VE-questions)
showthread.php?14153-scan-tool-wont-log-rafig-or-rafpn (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14153-scan-tool-wont-log-rafig-or-rafpn)
showthread.php?14435-Need-help-Can-Start-Car-but-dies-when-I-give-it-any-throttle-before-going-to-CL (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14435-Need-help-Can-Start-Car-but-dies-when-I-give-it-any-throttle-before-going-to-CL&p=129519&viewfull=1#post129519)
showthread.php?7011-ETC-cars-and-IAC-parameters (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?7011-ETC-cars-and-IAC-parameters&p=61455&viewfull=1#post61455)
showthread.php?14544-Working-on-my-idle-tune (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14544-Working-on-my-idle-tune)
showthread.php?14794-Help-with-open-loop-(cold-start)-tuning (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14794-Help-with-open-loop-%28cold-start%29-tuning&p=133446#post133446)
showthread.php?149-Idle-(Transition)-Tuning (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?149-Idle-%28Transition%29-Tuning)

More Idle Tuning
showthread.php?t=149 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=149)
showthread.php?t=5866 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=5866&highlight=RAFIG)
showthread.php?p=86553 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?p=86553) post #17
showthread.php?t=2630 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=2630)
showthread.php?t=473 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=473)

Throttle Cracker/Follower
showthread.php?t=3568 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=3568)
showthread.php?t=4081 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4081)
showthread.php?t=5406 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=5406)
showthread.php?t=5940 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=5940)

[MadMaxHSV]

Anyone tried this with an E38? :)

Few tweaks would be require to the method of course...

[Taz]

The AutoVE and AutoMAF techniques work well with the LS1-B PCM - the CALC VET and CALC MAFT techniques are an extension of these. You may have success in using the AutoMAF technique to dial in the MAF on an E38. Both LS1-B and E38 MAF tables could be described as two dimensional - Frequency & Air Mass Flow.

However the VE tables are very different. These both appear as three dimensional tables - RPM & Manifold Pressure & VE. The LS1-B PCM uses a basic mathematical equation to calculate predicted airflow. The E38 uses a highly complex algorithm to do the same.

When viewing an LS1-B VE table you can easily conceptualize what the cell values mean (especially if set to display in percent). In the E38 VVE table the cell values are at best conceptualized as placeholders - with no immediate mental conversion to VE.

Even when using Swingtan's VVE Tutorial technique - you will have noticed that using a BEN factor may fail to yield the desired results - and some manual manipulation of the VVE table (based on accurately interpreting logged data) is often more productive.


Regards,
Taz

[devlmaycry]

Okay, I've been slowly getting this set up to tune my car. However, once I select all of my PID's I have one that isn't valid.

BEN selected from WB or LTFT {CALC.SELBEN}

Expression:
factor = iff({CALC.PE}, {CALC.WO2BEN}, {CALC.LTFTBEN})
is NOT valid because:
Unknown parameter {CALC.PE}, at position 14.

PID value cannot be determined because
the following error would occur:
Expression not valid: Unknown parameter {CALC.PE}, at position 14.

Any idea on how to fix this?

[joecar]

Hi devlmaycry,

In post #1, the calc_pids.txt file has been updated (CALC.PE has been renamed CALC.CL), so download it and copy to the User Configuration folder.

Then, when a pid is not valid and it lists other pids as being unknown, then those pids also need to be selected, and so on for those pids;
for example, you show CALC.SELBEN being invalid because CALC.PE is invalid; so goto CALC.PE and select it; if CALC.PE fails to be valid, then repeat the process on it (see which dependendt pids it sees as invalid and select those also).


(note that in the updated calc_pids.txt file, CALC.PE has now been renamed to CALC.CL)

[devlmaycry]

Ok, changed the one PE reference in that txt file and it fixed the issue. I had been in that file before changing the wideband formula since I have a V1, but didn't think to reference back to that file for that PE issue. Thanks again for all the help!

[joecar]

Cool :cheers: you're welcome.

[devlmaycry]

Ok, I'm sure I am just missing something small but when I log it just shows 0.0 in the chart for the blocks it's hitting. On my tune I see in the top right that the VE units are % so I chose % when setting my map up. I also have one set up as kpa, and it shows the log values in the chart as 1.1 etc. So, like I said I'm sure it's something small that I have overlooked, but I can't seem to figure it out.

[joecar]

When VE % shows up as zero, then the displacement has not been entered...




A. Set Displacement: open a Log File, go Edit->Log File Information->Vehicle Options, and next to Engine enter the displacement in cc, click Ok, and save the log file. This matters only if you're planning to use [%] units for VE.

[devlmaycry]

I had a few other things selected in there. I cleared all the fields and selected only the 6.0 in there and it populated correctly.

[joecar]

Here is an alternate calc_pids.txt file that separates DAT out as a separate pid: calc_pids.txt (http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12682&d=1329189400)

This file has pids for both the Calc.VET and Calc.MAFT tutorials.

[Gregs]

Hey guys, currently i'm still using the old Auto.x because I get stuck in my ways sometimes :) I'm working on prepping to do Calc.x tune and I just want to clear some things up.

From what i gleaned it appears that the Calc.ve method, correct me if i'm wrong:
1. you run an all maf tune
2. the ben corrects maf
3. the method calculates the ve table
4. if 2&3 above are correct then why is there a Calc.maf?

[joecar]

The Calc.MAF procedure is the opposite/reverse of the Calc.VET...

Calc.VET = corrects MAF and calculates VE
Calc.MAFT = corrects VE and calculates MAF

[ the hint is in the name of the procedure, Calc.VET or Calc.MAFT ]

Also, either procedure can be tailored to use wideband only (i.e. becoming like AutoVE and AutoMAF, but with the bonus of calculating the other table).

[Gregs]

Ok that makes sense, thanks!

[Gregs]

I used this method the other day and it worked great logging from my laptop. Yesterday I did a black box log and now when i go in and add the calculated pids to the list its saying that SELBEN and VEN are invalid. Its weird because in my other log with my laptop they are valid.

[joecar]

On the PIDs tab, on the invalid pid do rightclick>More Info, this will explains why he pid is invalid (it might need other pids to be selected).

Paste the More Info text for those pids here (highlight the text and do ctrl-C to copy it).

[Laychut]

Hi, this may be a stupid question, but what does BEN stand for? I see it used a lot through tis posting.

[joecar]

BEN is a contrived term, Base Efficiency Numerator, also named after Ben Strader of EFI University.

it is easier to say/write "BEN" than it is to say "wideband fueling correction multiplier".

BEN is equal to all of these:
- commanded EQR * measured Lambda
- commanded EQR / measured EQR
- measured Lambda / commanded Lambda
- measured AFR / commanded AFR (if both commanded and measured assume the same value for stoichiometric AFR).

[Laychut]

Thanks Joecar!
So when I see words like selben or WO2ben it is all to do with data/information from the wide band O2 sensor?

[Laychut]

Also I have a stock LS1 out of a VZ Calais in my landcrusier. The information I got from the Marks4wd adaptor site suggested that I should run my rail pressure @ 65psi. The holden work shop manual says that the pressure as standard is 59psi. Should I lower my pressure down to 59psi and keep the stock fuel injector settings or keep it at 65psi and change the fuel rail pressure setting using the excel sheet mentioned in this post?

I am gearing up to carry out the Calc Vet tuning on my engine so I am trying clear up a few questions I have before I hit the road logging.

Another thing, I hear about open loop with MAF. How do I set up for that? I want to keep my MAF at this stage, but do I have to be in open loop for the Calc Vet tuning to work? I am only new at this tuning and I am trying to get this clear in my head.

Cheers

[Gregs]

On the PIDs tab, on the invalid pid do rightclick>More Info, this will explains why he pid is invalid (it might need other pids to be selected).

Paste the More Info text for those pids here (highlight the text and do ctrl-C to copy it).

Calculated VE, Not corrected {CALC.VEN}

Expression:
% = {SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)/{SAE.RPM}/{SAE.MAP.kPa}*3445.2/displacement()
is NOT valid because:
Required parameter {SAE.MAF.gps}, at position 14 is not selected.

PID value cannot be determined because
the following error would occur:
Expression not valid: Required parameter {SAE.MAF.gps}, at position 14 is not selected.

Calculated VE, Not corrected {CALC.VEN}

Expression:
g*K/kPa = {SAE.MAF.gps}*({GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA.C}+273.15)/{SAE.RPM}/{SAE.MAP.kPa}*15
is NOT valid because:

PID value cannot be determined because
the following error would occur:
Expression not compiled





so i logged gm.maf not sae.maf. Is there any difference in these pids? It's kinda hard to know exactly which pid you're selected in the v8 interface because it doesn't list gm.maf it lists "Air Flow Rate from Mass Air Flow Sensor" so there's no telling exactly what you're selected

[joecar]

SAE.MAF = PCM reports what MAF says, even when MAF has failed.

GM.MAF = PCM reports what MAF says, but when MAF fails the PCM reports calculated MAF (i.e. what it should say based on calculation from VE, MAP, RPM, DAT).


See post #2 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

[Gregs]

SAE.MAF = PCM reports what MAF says, even when MAF has failed.

GM.MAF = PCM reports what MAF says, but when MAF fails the PCM reports calculated MAF (i.e. what it should say based on calculation from VE, MAP, RPM, DAT).


See post #2 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)

very helpful, i've got that thread bookmarked now

how would you describe the differences between GM.DYNCYLAIR and GM.DYNCYLAIR_DMA?

GM.DYNCYLAIR
PCM calculated cylinder airmass [g/cyl] based on VE.

GM.DYNCYLAIR_DMA
Internal PCM calculated cylinder airmass [g/cyl] based on VE.

[joecar]

There are almost the same;

the _DMA pid is the lookup of an internal calculation, which Paul says the PCM uses for looking up spark.

[pavetim]

I"ve been out of the gas tuning game for awhile, wow stuff got more intense lol. I'm currenlty reading this thread again but it's so long. Can someone please just direct me to the very newest tutorial and calc.pids text so I can start to be on my way. I'm helping a friend tune his 99 vette with a LC-1 and efilive. The only mods I know of are an exhaust (not full) and a Cold Air Intake. Thanks all.

[nevinsb]

The first post should have everything you need. It was updated in July.

[joecar]

The first post of this thread has everything you need (updated July 2012 as nevinsb said).


If you have an OS that does not support the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA, then follow the notes/links near the end of post #1, or post your B4901 table here and I will edit a CALC.DAT pid for you...

or if you have an older calc_pids.txt file containing a CALC.DAT pid made from B4901, post the calc_pids.txt file instead and I'll update it (using the magic of a difference editor).

[supercharged88]

Hi everyone,
i am new to flash style tuning or flash editing as some call it.
My experience is purely with standalone, real time tuning ECU's.
So getting a grip on this stuff is a challenge.
I have been looking at the EFI LIVE system for tuning Commodores here in Australia.
The information and support on this forum is OUTSTANDING.
I am a little confused with the concept of Calculating the VE Table and the Auto VE tuning.
Are they the same thing with a different name.
The setup processes look similar, but give me the impression they are different things.
Can someone please clarify this for me.
If they are different, what is the difference between the two and is one method better than the other.
It appears that Speed Density, MAFLESS tuning is the preferred method by most of the users here.
Sorry about these basic questions, just trying to learn.
Thanks for your time and keep up the great work.
Regards
Dave.

[joecar]

Hi Dave, welcome to the forum :cheers:


AutoVE and Calc.VET: see post #29 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)


Calc.VET requires almost no preparation and progresses the quickest (and results in MAF and VE tables being tuned).

[DocZ28]

What calc_pids.txt should I use, I saw it was changed. I´m V1 user with LC1 WB

[supercharged88]

Hi Dave, welcome to the forum :cheers:


AutoVE and Calc.VET: see post #29 here: Summary-Notes (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?14188-Summary-Notes)


Calc.VET requires almost no preparation and progresses the quickest (and results in MAF and VE tables being tuned).

Hi joecar,
thanks for the welcome and the reply.
I will read through post 29.
Thanks again
Regards
Dave.

[joecar]

What calc_pids.txt should I use, I saw it was changed. I´m V1 user with LC1 WBYou will edit WO2BEN to be "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7" as said in the post #1 (see "II. ANALOG WIDEBAND AND/OR V1 USERS").

[COONDOG96]

OK I added the calc_pids.txt file looked ok but when loading the pids (CalvulatedVE,Not corrected) did not come up valleid was still X out. When I did a log {B0101} map after averaging came up all 0s. {B5001} had what looked like good # to me ????. I went back and looked at the calc_pids.txt file and CLC-00-320 is not in there could that be it??? Also I then tried to find the 320 text and now I have bouth the scan and tune are locked up I get an erior massage witch I sent in. So now I'm dead in the net. Will try to send the log but not going to lost is post again

[COONDOG96]

OK I added the calc_pids.txt file looked ok but when loading the pids (CalvulatedVE,Not corrected) did not come up valleid was still X out. When I did a log {B0101} map after averaging came up all 0s. {B5001} had what looked like good # to me ????. I went back and looked at the calc_pids.txt file and CLC-00-320 is not in there could that be it??? Also I then tried to find the 320 text and now I have bouth the scan and tune are locked up I get an erior massage witch I sent in. So now I'm dead in the net. Will try to send the log but not going to lost is post again

logError code: ERR_WIN 0/0

Cannot open file "C:\Users\Owner\Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration\calc_pids.txt". The system cannot find the file specified

[COONDOG96]

14392
logError code: ERR_WIN 0/0

Cannot open file "C:\Users\Owner\Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration\calc_pids.txt". The system cannot find the file specified

log

[COONDOG96]

14393

[COONDOG96]

I hope the log got there I can't open it anymore no scan or tune

[joecar]

logError code: ERR_WIN 0/0

Cannot open file "C:\Users\Owner\Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration\calc_pids.txt". The system cannot find the file specifiedStart scantool, go Edit->Properties->Folders, highlight User Configuration, click Browse and browse to the correct folder, click Ok, click Ok...

exit scantool and restart it.

[joecar]

I can see the log file...

[COONDOG96]

Can't as soon as I x out the err. report it closes the sacn tool
Start scantool, go Edit->Properties->Folders, highlight User Configuration, click Browse and browse to the correct folder, click Ok, click Ok...

exit scantool and restart it.

[joecar]

Hmmm... DAT is high at 154F.

[COONDOG96]

I know that it an air temp but it comes from what?
Hmmm... DAT is high at 154F.

[COONDOG96]

It is a blown motor so iat is in the upper plentom

[joecar]

I know that it an air temp but it comes from what?It comes from the blend of IAT and ECT according to table B4901 in your tune file.

[joecar]

It is a blown motor so iat is in the upper plentomOk, understood.

[COONDOG96]

Any more thoughts on getting the tools unlocled

[joecar]

logError code: ERR_WIN 0/0

Cannot open file "C:\Users\Owner\Documents\EFILive\V7.5\User Configuration\calc_pids.txt". The system cannot find the file specified


Can't as soon as I x out the err. report it closes the sacn toolTry this:

copy the calc_pids.txt file to that exact location;


or, reinstall EFILive V7 using the default folder locations.

[Rich Z]

OK, which one is the correct tutorial to follow? This thread here, or the .PDF file in the list of tutorials. They don't appear to be the same to me concerning procedures and sequence of steps.

[Rich Z]

Arghh.. I'm at the point where I'm supposed to paste the labels in the Column after copying with labels from B0101. Tutorial says that the "following labels should appear in the Col labels text field: ,15,20,25,30,35,......,105". Well not in mine. When I pasted into the MAP I'm creating, the text field labels are "2.2,2.9,3.6,4.4,........,15.2". So what did I mess up? Those ARE the labels in my B0101 table.

[darcy]

Those labes are fine if you want to work in PSI. Most people use kPa for the units when taking about vacuum.

[COONDOG96]

OK I tried both no luck. Went to GeekSquad they said its not my computer its something I did in the EFILive sofdware. Now were do I go is there an EFILive teck soport line? If I uninstall and redownload will I lose all my files? I'm a computer dummy were do I go from here.
Try this:

copy the calc_pids.txt file to that exact location;


or, reinstall EFILive V7 using the default folder locations.

[EagleMark]

OK, which one is the correct tutorial to follow? This thread here, or the .PDF file in the list of tutorials. They don't appear to be the same to me concerning procedures and sequence of steps.I found you have to do both, this one is an improvement to the tutorial in pdf but does not include everything as needed.

[EagleMark]

Arghh.. I'm at the point where I'm supposed to paste the labels in the Column after copying with labels from B0101. Tutorial says that the "following labels should appear in the Col labels text field: ,15,20,25,30,35,......,105". Well not in mine. When I pasted into the MAP I'm creating, the text field labels are "2.2,2.9,3.6,4.4,........,15.2". So what did I mess up? Those ARE the labels in my B0101 table.Open the Tune Tool and go to Edit, Configure Display Units and cahnge it to Metric instead of Imperial.

[COONDOG96]

OK that did it I'm up ang running again lets see how long it takes me to screw it up this time
OK I tried both no luck. Went to GeekSquad they said its not my computer its something I did in the EFILive sofdware. Now were do I go is there an EFILive teck soport line? If I uninstall and redownload will I lose all my files? I'm a computer dummy were do I go from here.

[COONDOG96]

Hay Rich Z let me know if all the calc_pids.txt files work for you. I had this problem.
OK I added the calc_pids.txt file looked ok but when loading the pids (CalvulatedVE,Not corrected) did not come up valleid was still X out. When I did a log {B0101} map after averaging came up all 0s. {B5001} had what looked like good # to me ????. I went back and looked at the calc_pids.txt file and CLC-00-320 is not in there could that be it??? Also I then tried to find the 320 text and now I have bouth the scan and tune are locked up I get an erior massage witch I sent in. So now I'm dead in the net. Will try to send the log but not going to lost is post again

[Rich Z]

Hay Rich Z let me know if all the calc_pids.txt files work for you. I had this problem.

Well, I'm using the .PDF tutorial, and looks like there is an error in the PID list provided. The PID that the tutorial calls for says "GM.DYNCYL_DMA" for "Air Flow Grams/Cyl-Speed Density", but the actual PID (as best I can tell) appears to actually be called "GM.DYNCYLAIR_DMA". It's this kind of stuff in a TUTORIAL that drives me insane. A tutorial, in my opinion, is supposed to teach someone about the topic matter. It really can't teach very well if it is inaccurate.

One thing that might be a real snag for me is that this procedure appears to use long term fuel trims. Yet my tuner told me he disabled LTFT in my tune, and at this point I don't have a clue about how to re-enable them. I've got all the mechanical issues now straightened out on my car (knock on wood) so I want to delve into this tuning stuff, but I've still got some questions I am having trouble finding answers to. The main thing is that my tuner is using a sloped IFR table in spite of the fact that my fuel pressure regulator is vacuum mapped. My car does run pretty good, even after his quickie tune to get me running, so I don't know if the guy just has some tricks up his sleeve that my inexperience can't even begin to understand, or if he did not realize the FPR is mapped. So far I haven't been able to get an answer out of him about it. But it's something I'm sure I need to know before I do anything in the tuning at all, as this is pretty much the base level to even begin to step up into the real tuning.

[Rich Z]

Open the Tune Tool and go to Edit, Configure Display Units and cahnge it to Metric instead of Imperial.

Ah! Ok, that worked. Thanks for your help!

[EagleMark]

One thing that might be a real snag for me is that this procedure appears to use long term fuel trims. Yet my tuner told me he disabled LTFT in my tune, and at this point I don't have a clue about how to re-enable them. CL or Closed Loop enable temp set to max temp disables LTFT.

Or {B3801} Long Term Fuel Trim Correction, set to eneable/disable.

What I haven't seen that would make Open Loop tuning easier then disconnecting O2 sensors and DTCs is STFT and LTFT min and max? Set these all to 128 and no fueling correction.

[Rich Z]

CL or Closed Loop enable temp set to max temp disables LTFT.

Or {B3801} Long Term Fuel Trim Correction, set to eneable/disable.

What I haven't seen that would make Open Loop tuning easier then disconnecting O2 sensors and DTCs is STFT and LTFT min and max? Set these all to 128 and no fueling correction.

Ah, thanks. I can see where he used two methods to disable LTFT.

B3801 set to disable, and B3802 set to 284 degrees.

I can understand there being a minimum coolant temp to enable LTFT, but what does a MAXIMUM coolant temp enable really do? If the LTFT are already enabled at, say 180 degrees, what happens if you set a max of 230 degrees and the coolant temps HIT that? No sense in enabling LTFT again, is there?

BTW, what would be a good coolant temp to set for the enable? I noticed that my coolant temps are generally around 195 while driving.

Thanks for your help.

[EagleMark]

I was suggesting LTST/STFT fuel trims, not enable temps. Your tune has this in differant scale then what I posted. Mine has nothing.

But in your tune min temp allows LTFT to become active and max temp turns LTFT off, relying on STFT only. LTFT memory is not much help if your engine is overheating...

[Rich Z]

I was suggesting LTST/STFT fuel trims, not enable temps. Your tune has this in differant scale then what I posted. Mine has nothing.

But in your tune min temp allows LTFT to become active and max temp turns LTFT off, relying on STFT only. LTFT memory is not much help if your engine is overheating...

OK, maybe I misunderstood what my tuner did. It appeared to me that he disabled B3801 AND also had the LTFT enable set to 284 degrees, which also effectively disabled LTFT. Does that sound right?

As for B3803, I guess it's just a terminology thing. To me I guess that would be the high temp that DISABLES LTFT, but it sounds more like negative logic saying that this is the MAXIMUM temperature that LTFT will be ENABLED. Of course, as you pointed out, if the engine is overheating what would disabling LTFT do anyway?

Thanks.

[EagleMark]

I'd have to test to be sure but either should turn off LTFT. Doing both was just safe.

If you look, one temp Enables when temps are coming up from cold, then there is a window of operation, then if it hits the upper/max it turns off.

[Rich Z]

OK. Well let me ask this: Do I actually NEED the LTFTs to be enabled for this CALC.VET procedure?

[EagleMark]

First paragraph in write up says...


Calculate the entire VE Table from Idle to Redline RPM in a Single Log Session:

1. Tune Both Closed-Loop and PE Mode/WOT (simultaneously)
2. Calibrate MAF
3. Eliminate Trims

Closed Loop is LTFT.

[Rich Z]

First paragraph in write up says...



Closed Loop is LTFT.

Well, while logging my car, the status shows it is in closed loop, yet the LTFTs are not enabled. So what does that mean?

[darcy]

Well, while logging my car, the status shows it is in closed loop, yet the LTFTs are not enabled. So what does that mean?

You're in closed loop, using O2 feedback to generate STFTs, but not turning those into LTFTs.

[COONDOG96]

OK somewere in this I'm missing a step or something. My VE map is in #like 82.324and 85.436 but when I go right by the new Tutorial they end up being #like 1.325 up to like 3.42 witch sound like % to me but I've gone back and redid all the maps and logs and still get them. Were am I going wrong?????

[Rich Z]

You're in closed loop, using O2 feedback to generate STFTs, but not turning those into LTFTs.

OK, that makes sense. Is there a good writeup anywhere here about speed density tuning in EFILive so I can stick my toes into that concept a little bit?

[joecar]

OK somewere in this I'm missing a step or something. My VE map is in #like 82.324and 85.436 but when I go right by the new Tutorial they end up being #like 1.325 up to like 3.42 witch sound like % to me but I've gone back and redid all the maps and logs and still get them. Were am I going wrong?????Check the units of your scantool WO2BEN map and your tunetool VE display units...

they have to be the same (either % or g*K/kPa), and you can't mix units

[ I prefer g*K/kPa ]

Post screenshots (using shift-prtscn button).

[ferocity02]

I have a question for you experts. Instead of copying and pasting the calculated VE table into the tune as is, what would you think about doing it row by row. Let's say I want to do the 1600 RPM row... I use the normal ECT and TP filters, and then also filter out data under 1500 and over 1700 RPM. I think this would give a much better representation of the 1600 RPM row.

The issue I think I'm having is that when I log data on the highway, I'm spinning around 1750 RPM, which is almost halfway between 1600 and 2000 RPM, but all of this data is going to the 1600 RPM row. So my VE at 1600 RPM is too high because it's actually representing 1750 RPM.

Or maybe make the data table with increments of 2000 RPM and do some clever interpolation to make the final VE table.

Thoughts?

[joecar]

I have a question for you experts. Instead of copying and pasting the calculated VE table into the tune as is, what would you think about doing it row by row. Let's say I want to do the 1600 RPM row... I use the normal ECT and TP filters, and then also filter out data under 1500 and over 1700 RPM. I think this would give a much better representation of the 1600 RPM row.

The issue I think I'm having is that when I log data on the highway, I'm spinning around 1750 RPM, which is almost halfway between 1600 and 2000 RPM, but all of this data is going to the 1600 RPM row. So my VE at 1600 RPM is too high because it's actually representing 1750 RPM.

Or maybe make the data table with increments of 2000 RPM and do some clever interpolation to make the final VE table.

Thoughts?I think that's a good idea ("bucketizing").

[tinindian]

Where is this Calc.vet tuning tutorial I keep reading about? There's got to be more explanation than just the few steps listed in the first post of this thread. Yes, I've read the summary notes. The problem is that I have an analog wideband and can't get the proper PIDs. I think I have all the crap taken care of in calc_pid.txt. The first post does a good job showing things for a serial WB. I've done AutoVE before and had no problems with that writeup. But now I have a 5-pin MAF and don't want to screw with the wiring so calc.vet seems like a good option. What am I missing?

[joecar]

Hi tinindian,

Post #1 has all the steps and explanation...

it also shows you how to handle analog wideband:


. . .

II. PROCEDURE for ANALOG WIDEBAND or V1

To obtain LAMBDA from an analog wideband, divided wideband AFR divided by the wideband's assumed stoich AFR.

Method 1:
Using NGK AFX as example (NGK assumes stoich to be 14.57):
edit CALC.WO2BEN1 (CLC-00-110) to "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_NGK1}/14.57"

Method 2:
Using LC-1 as example (LC-1 assumes stoich to be 14.7):
define CALC.LAMBDA (a new CLC, say CLC-00-100) to be "{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7"
edit CALC.WO2BEN1 (CLC-00-110) to be "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.LAMBDA}"

or simply combine those (i.e. same as method 1):
edit CALC.WO2BEN1 (CLC-00-110) to be "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7"

. . .


the Calc-VET-summary-notes provide additional info to guide you along.

[joecar]

You can fail the MAF without un-wiring it (if you don't understand this, then you did not understand the AutoVE tutorial)...

but if you're going to go SD (MAF-less, failed MAF) then you would be doing the Calc.MAFT proceedure (can you see why...?)...

but you can only do it if your OS supports the pid GM.VE_TABLE_DMA (can you see why...?).

[tinindian]

Hi tinindian,

Post #1 has all the steps and explanation...

it also shows you how to handle analog wideband:


the Calc-VET-summary-notes provide additional info to guide you along.

I guess indirectly it tells you what to do but if it's truly a tutorial why not provide the whole thing for people that don't have serial wideband? Not even sure if this is correct:

*CLC-00-100
factor 0 20 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC12}/14.7"

*CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.LAMBDA}"

I know you're trying to get people to "figure it out" but why make it easy for people w/ serial & hard for people w/ analog?

[tinindian]

You can fail the MAF without un-wiring it (if you don't understand this, then you did not understand the AutoVE tutorial)...



The AutoVE tutorial I have says to unplug the MAF, I understand that completely. I thought I would be able to turn off the MAF as you posted with these settings:

"To fail MAF set both C2901, C2903 to 1 (which I can do) and set C6001 P0101,2,3 to 1-trip (which I can't)".

I have V1 and the only options are MIL & NO MIL. Yes, I am using my 5-pin MAF (no SD).

[joecar]

I guess indirectly it tells you what to do but if it's truly a tutorial why not provide the whole thing for people that don't have serial wideband? Not even sure if this is correct:

*CLC-00-100
factor 0 20 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC12}/14.7"

*CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.LAMBDA}"
Almost correct...

you will also have to add this line just before the line defining CALC.WO2BEN:


. . .
CALC.LAMBDA F100 CLC-00-100 factor Tuning "Lambda from WB"
CALC.WO2BEN F110 CLC-00-110 factor Tuning "BEN from WB"
. . .



or you could do this instead (did you see this part):


or simply combine those (i.e. same as method 1):
edit CALC.WO2BEN1 (CLC-00-110) to be "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7"

that is much simpler (you just edit the last part of CLC-00-110).




I know you're trying to get people to "figure it out" but why make it easy for people w/ serial & hard for people w/ analog?
I would have to provide (and test out) a calc_pids.txt file for each analog wideband...

but, if you got this far you already learnt some of what is needed (like learning how to edit calc pids).

[joecar]

Tuning without learning how to edit calc pids is like driving around in 1st gear not realizing there are N-1 more gears

:)

[tinindian]

Thanks Joe. I feel editing calc pids has more to do with the intricacies of EFILive than actual tuning, but it is what it is I guess.

Ya I had the lambda line in there already. So what PID do I use in place of EXT.WO2LAM1 (isn't this for serial wideband?) if I am to continue on with calc.vet?

Also, if I go the AutoVE route why can't I get the MAF to fail like you wrote: "To fail MAF set both C2901, C2903 to 1 (which I can do) and set C6001 P0101,2,3 to 1-trip (which I can't)".

I have V1 and the only options are MIL & NO MIL. Yes, I am using my 5-pin MAF (no SD).

[joecar]

You replace "{EXT.WO2LAM1)" with "{CALC.AFR_XXX1}/14.7"

where CALC.AFR_XXX1 is the analog AFR pid for your wideband and 14.7 is the assumed stoich AFR of that wideband (some use a slightly different value if stoich so you have to see what their user manual says).

[joecar]

The AutoVE tutorial I have says to unplug the MAF, I understand that completely. I thought I would be able to turn off the MAF as you posted with these settings:

"To fail MAF set both C2901, C2903 to 1 (which I can do) and set C6001 P0101,2,3 to 1-trip (which I can't)".

I have V1 and the only options are MIL & NO MIL. Yes, I am using my 5-pin MAF (no SD).Your tune file does not contain table C6001...? What PCM and OS do you have...?

You can still get the MAF to fail, but you would have to wait for a MAF DTC to trigger... setting C6001 P0101,2,3 to 1-Trip causes the DTC to trigger immediately rather than on the next trip cycle.

V1 doesn't limit the tables you see... the OS id would (since it would depend on which tables have been "discovered" for that OS).

[joecar]

Also, are you connecting your 5-pin MAF using a 5-pin connector directly, or a 3+2-pin to 5-pin converter...?

[tinindian]

Your tune file does not contain table C6001...? What PCM and OS do you have...?

You can still get the MAF to fail, but you would have to wait for a MAF DTC to trigger... setting C6001 P0101,2,3 to 1-Trip causes the DTC to trigger immediately rather than on the next trip cycle.

V1 doesn't limit the tables you see... the OS id would (since it would depend on which tables have been "discovered" for that OS).

My bad. I was looking at C6002, not C6001. One last question. I set the MAF to fail like you advised but when I loaded the tune and started it up the PID SAE.MAF was still changing. I kind of expected it to stay at zero. How do I know for sure the MAF is turned off?

[tinindian]

Also, are you connecting your 5-pin MAF using a 5-pin connector directly, or a 3+2-pin to 5-pin converter...?

I wired the 5-pin connector directly.

[joecar]

So you do have table C6001...?


When the MAF is failed but still physically present, the PCM still reads it but does not use it if any of the MAF DTC's is triggered.


If any of these DTC's trigger then the MAF is failed (i.e. PCM is using VE exclusively): P0101, P0102, P0103;

if you do not see one of those DTC's as currently triggered, then the PCM is either using the MAF (if physically present), or it is calculating an estimated magical "desired" MAF value (if physically removed).

[ferocity02]

Is it okay to use WO2BEN to correct the MAF table instead of LTFTBEN? The reason I'm asking is because the LTFT table has relatively low resolution vs. RPM and MAP, just 12 cells if I counted correctly. So the trim value might be over or under trimming within that cell. The LTFT cells can cover a wide range of RPM and MAP, and as a result a wide range of MAFFREQ. Yes? Perhaps WO2BEN would be a better correction? I'm focusing here on dialing in CL where the AFR should be stoich. SELBEN always uses LTFTBEN unless in PE.


Also, I have an AEM wideband which I believe uses an AFR of 14.63975 for lambda=1, according to their table. This is the AFR I'm using to calculate WO2BEN. I set B3601 to 14.63975 but the wideband is averaging 14.70 during cruise. Perhaps this is in the noise? Or should I leave B3601 to the stock value of 14.681?

[joecar]

Yes, in CLC-00-305 and CLC-00-315 replace {CALC.SELBEN} with {CALC.WO2BEN}...

since now you're not using trims for corrections, you should now disable trims/CL to avoid the trims correcting ahead of you...

--> remember to disable: CL, LTFT, STFT, SOL (if running COS, any stoich cells in B3647/B3649 will do SOL).

Set B3601 to the stoich AFR of the fuel you're using.

Use Lambda, avoid AFR, this will make the wideband's assume stoich AFR irrelevant... but if you can set it, set it to the same as B3601.

[n8dogg]

If one were to tune for E10 with Calc.VET and a LC-1 wideband, should the programmed stoich value of the LC-1 wideband be changed using the Innovate software?

[joecar]

Irrelevant... use lambda.

[n8dogg]

OK, So when I use lambda, does Flashscan V2 automatically assume lambda/1= set (B3601) stoich AFR?

Is the lambda value displayed on my flashscan V2 LCD display, accurate for my set (B3601) stoich value, or the standard pure gasoline stoich value of 14.7:1 AFR?

[Wheelz]

OK, So when I use lambda, does Flashscan V2 automatically assume lambda/1= set (B3601) stoich AFR?

Is the lambda value displayed on my flashscan V2 LCD display, accurate for my set (B3601) stoich value, or the standard pure gasoline stoich value of 14.7:1 AFR?

The LC-1 is a lambda gauge. The AFR reading is calculated based on what stoich is programmed for the gauge. The lambda value displayed is good for any fuel, but to convert to a fuel mass you must define a stoich value, which is where B3601 comes into play.

[n8dogg]

Where I am confused is, after performing several Calc.VET logs and tune adjusts my flashscan still reads that I am running close to 1.0 lambda (14.7) rather than .96-.97 (14.12) which I've commanded into B3601.

[Wheelz]

Where I am confused is, after performing several Calc.VET logs and tune adjusts my flashscan still reads that I am running close to 1.0 lambda (14.7) rather than .96-.97 (14.12) which I've commanded into B3601.

1.0 lambda is stoich for your fuel, whether its pure gas or e85. The AFR number displayed by the LC-1 is only accurate for pure gasoline. So if your commanding 14.12 and getting a lambda of 1.0, you are running perfect. Don't look at the AFR output of the LC-1 because its a calculated number from lambda bases on a programmed stoich value

[n8dogg]

1.0 lambda is stoich for your fuel, whether its pure gas or e85. The AFR number displayed by the LC-1 is only accurate for pure gasoline. So if your commanding 14.12 and getting a lambda of 1.0, you are running perfect. Don't look at the AFR output of the LC-1 because its a calculated number from lambda bases on a programmed stoich value

OK, so the lambda output display on my flashscan v2 is a reflection of my commanded stoich afr? Not the WB's factory settings?

[Wheelz]

OK, so the lambda output display on my flashscan v2 is a reflection of my commanded stoich afr? Not the WB's factory settings?

Close. It is a reflection of the stoich for your fuel. If your tune is set correctly then yes it is a reflection of your commanded AFR, but if your running e85, lambda of 1.0 will be 9.something AFR even if your commanding 14.67in your tune.

But yes on that the lambda output from the LC-1 is stoich for whatever fuel you are running. It is your job to know the stoich AFR of your fuel and command it appropriately.

[n8dogg]

Close. It is a reflection of the stoich for your fuel. If your tune is set correctly then yes it is a reflection of your commanded AFR, but if your running e85, lambda of 1.0 will be 9.something AFR even if your commanding 14.67in your tune.

But yes on that the lambda output from the LC-1 is stoich for whatever fuel you are running. It is your job to know the stoich AFR of your fuel and command it appropriately.

If I am reading between the lines correctly, then the LC-1 wideband (when reading lambda) can tell when the car is running stoich, regardless of fuel/ethanol percentage?
Lets say I use the LC-1 in a car that has a good tune for gasoline, it will read 1.0 lambda at stoich (14.7). Then I take the LC-1 out and install it in a car that has a good tune for E85, the sensor will read 1.0 lambda at stoich (9.0)?

[Wheelz]

If I am reading between the lines correctly, then the LC-1 wideband (when reading lambda) can tell when the car is running stoich, regardless of fuel/ethanol percentage?
Lets say I use the LC-1 in a car that has a good tune for gasoline, it will read 1.0 lambda at stoich (14.7). Then I take the LC-1 out and install it in a car that has a good tune for E85, the sensor will read 1.0 lambda at stoich (9.0)?

Yes.

[joecar]

If I am reading between the lines correctly, then the LC-1 wideband (when reading lambda) can tell when the car is running stoich, regardless of fuel/ethanol percentage?
Lets say I use the LC-1 in a car that has a good tune for gasoline, it will read 1.0 lambda at stoich (14.7). Then I take the LC-1 out and install it in a car that has a good tune for E85, the sensor will read 1.0 lambda at stoich (9.0)?Yes, correct.


You set B3601 to tell the PCM what fuel the engine is running on.

[joecar]

From the other thread, you can see that Lambda is regardless of stoich AFR... i.e. stoich is Lambda 1.00 for any/all fuels.

[Rich Z]

I've got a question about the filter being applied to the map. Specifically this one:


{EXT.WO2LAM1.lambda} is greater than 1.06 Lambda


Why are the values over 1.06 being filtered out of the data?

[joecar]

I've got a question about the filter being applied to the map. Specifically this one:


Why are the values over 1.06 being filtered out of the data?To filter out DFCO (deceleration fuel cut off).

[Rich Z]

To filter out DFCO (deceleration fuel cut off).

Well, I'm seeing some pretty lean figures in my map from my last log, so won't this filter out those cells as well? Since switching to E10 gasoline, it's made some rather lean cells up in the higher RPM cells. If you look at the latest log I have in my "Sanity check" thread, you will likely see what I am talking about. So do I really want that data filtered out?

BTW, I believe I've got DFCO disabled anyway....

[joecar]

Ok, I'll look at it...

[joecar]

Where exactly...?

15658

[DocZ28]

I have one Question. I´m using V1 and Lc WB and is working great. But If I want to test an AEM 31400 WB, What changes I have to made in calc. pids, I look over the site I can´t find any info.

Regards

[joecar]

I have one Question. I´m using V1 and Lc WB and is working great. But If I want to test an AEM 31400 WB, What changes I have to made in calc. pids, I look over the site I can´t find any info.

RegardsDo you have the user manual pdf for the AEM 31-4100...? Can you post it here.

[DocZ28]

Here is the manual

http://tunertools.com/prodimages/AEM/manual/AEM-30-4100-AFR-UEGO-instructions.pdf

[joecar]

From the AEM 30-4100 user manual I derive the e transfer function as follows:



0.00V AFR 10.00
4.99V AFR 19.98


combining into linear equation:
(19.98-10.00)/(4.99-0.00) = 2 = (AFR-10)/(V-0)

rearranging, the transfer function is: AFR = 2*V + 10

This is the exactly same as the PLX transfer function... so you can use the pids CALC.AFR_PLX1.

[DocZ28]

So I have to change this

*CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7"


for this? *CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_PLX1}/14.7"

[joecar]

So I have to change this
*CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_LC11}/14.7"


for this?
*CLC-00-110
factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "{GM.EQIVRATIO}*{CALC.AFR_PLX1}/14.7"

Yes, exactly.

[TunasTwins]

Looking for some help here folks. I had followed WeatherManShawn's original tutorial with much success. After an extended break from tuning, I was saddened to read the news of his passing.
After some hardware issues from migrating to a new laptop, I finally have my unconventional set up working again. I use tunercats for my flashing and EFILive via the autotap ATUSB cable. Works a charm but man I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for my wife to give me the green light on a v2 flashscan! Anyhow, can you look at my calcpids file please? Something needs to be multiplied by 100 as my histogram shows the VE table as 1.xxxxx and I need it to be 1xx.xxxi in the scanner. (I created a simple excel sheet to do the multiplication for me for now.) Also, I am NOT using a WB as I have yet to tap into my AC/EGR 5V signal to circumvent the autotap cable. Sadly, my LM-1 WB has been sitting in a bag on the shelf for a couple of years now. I would love to have a turnkey setup for replacing the NB on multiple vehicles; using the simulated NB output of the old LM-1. Thanks guys!

[joecar]

Looking for some help here folks. I had followed WeatherManShawn's original tutorial with much success. After an extended break from tuning, I was saddened to read the news of his passing.
After some hardware issues from migrating to a new laptop, I finally have my unconventional set up working again. I use tunercats for my flashing and EFILive via the autotap ATUSB cable. Works a charm but man I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for my wife to give me the green light on a v2 flashscan! Anyhow, can you look at my calcpids file please? Something needs to be multiplied by 100 as my histogram shows the VE table as 1.xxxxx and I need it to be 1xx.xxxi in the scanner. (I created a simple excel sheet to do the multiplication for me for now.) Also, I am NOT using a WB as I have yet to tap into my AC/EGR 5V signal to circumvent the autotap cable. Sadly, my LM-1 WB has been sitting in a bag on the shelf for a couple of years now. I would love to have a turnkey setup for replacing the NB on multiple vehicles; using the simulated NB output of the old LM-1. Thanks guys!Hi Josh,

Yes, we're still saddened of his untimely passing.

Will you be using any wideband...?

[ the LM-1 cqn be made to replace the NB by providing the simulated NB signal and the WB tuning signal, both at the same time (since it has two analog outputs) ]


Get a new fresh copy of the calc_pid.txt file from post #1 of the Calc.VET thread: Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-single-log) (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?15236-Calc-VET-correcting-MAF-and-calculating-VE-(in-single-log))


If you will be using a wideband, then look at posts #476 and #477, you will need to do the same thing to CLC-00-110 with your wideband pid {CALC.AFR_LM11}.

If you will not be using a wideband, then you have to change occurances of SELBEN to WO2BEN in CLC-00-305:


*CLC-00-305
% 0.0 100.0 .2 "{CALC.SELBEN}*{CALC.VEN.%}"
VE 0.0 2.468 .4 "{CALC.SELBEN}*{CALC.VEN.VE}"
but you won't be able to tune anything that is not closed loop.


In the tunetool set the VE units to g*K/kPa, and in the scantool VE map use the pid CALC.VET with units [g*k/kPa]...

i.e. instead of seeing 0-100% for VE you will see 0-2.4 g*k/kPa.

[TunasTwins]

Thanks Joecar. I dont currently have the setup to log the wideband to efilive, unless you know a way with my autotap cable. As far as the VE table goes, I am seeing g*k/kpa and the numbers are very similar to my VE table, just off two decimals?

[joecar]

Oh, I forgot that you might be logging wideband via AC pressure sensor or EGR position sensor...

if this is so then we can create a wideband AFR/lambda pid using the EGR voltage...

you might have to enable EGR in the tunefile.

[TunasTwins]

That sounds great Joecar. That would seal the deal with my setup. This is on my wifes 05 4.8LTahoe. i'd like to add to the thread for everyone. Ill post a log soon. Even a scan only V1 would be deluxe!

[TunasTwins]

I made the suggested changes Joecar. My "units" look off by quite a bit. The VE table values are very low; seeing 55 should be 125. Also, the MAF table has some larger than anticipated adjustments at 2750Mhz. I do have B0120 set around 3500RPM and my B3616 and B3618 are still in street trim. WO2LAM1 is also invalid. How do I get around this with my setup? THANKS for all the help guys!!

[joecar]

I made the suggested changes Joecar. My "units" look off by quite a bit. The VE table values are very low; seeing 55 should be 125. Also, the MAF table has some larger than anticipated adjustments at 2750Mhz. I do have B0120 set around 3500RPM and my B3616 and B3618 are still in street trim. WO2LAM1 is also invalid. How do I get around this with my setup? THANKS for all the help guys!!Hi Josh,

Since you don't have a wideband, you will need to use LTFTBEN for correcting the MAF table and calculating the VE table...

use the attached calc_pids.txt file...

( you will only be able to tune Closed Loop, you will then have to extrapolate the delta to the other regions of MAF and VE until you get a wideband )

Make sure your OS supports the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA... if not, let me know and I'll modify your calc_pid.txt.



WO2LAM1 is only valid if you have a wideband connected to FlashScan V2 using a serial comms cable.

[joecar]

Set B3618 to something like EQR 1.175 all across, and set B3616 to something like 2002 Camaro (65% TP below 3200 rpm, 35% TP above 3200 rpm).

You can leave B0120 as is (because with the Calc.VET procedure, the transient filter happens to filter out VE contribution).

[TunasTwins]

Giving it a shot now. Thanks Joecar! If I go the Ac pressure route, I'll take the help on setting it up.

[TunasTwins]

Should I have the SELBEN in the new calc.pid without the
*CLC-00-220 factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "iff({CALC.CL}, {CALC.LTFTBEN}, ""{CALC.WO2BEN})""
CALC.WO2BEN entry? If not, just use the BEN from LTFT for my MAF table?

[TunasTwins]

Using the BEN from LTFT for the MAF gives sane values. I hooked up my LM-1 again! I am currently messing with the NB simulation output. I have a harness in the car that I ran a couple years ago. The car runs fine (CL) with my current settings and shows .85-.87 lambda when in PE. I need to run the 5v signal to the AC or EGR now.

[joecar]

Should I have the SELBEN in the new calc.pid without the
*CLC-00-220 factor 0.5 1.5 .4 "iff({CALC.CL}, {CALC.LTFTBEN}, ""{CALC.WO2BEN})""
CALC.WO2BEN entry? If not, just use the BEN from LTFT for my MAF table?Use the calc_pid.txt file from post #484 (it replaces SELBEN with LTFTBEN)(and it deletes CLC-00-220 and CLC-00-110).

[joecar]

Using the BEN from LTFT for the MAF gives sane values. I hooked up my LM-1 again! I am currently messing with the NB simulation output. I have a harness in the car that I ran a couple years ago. The car runs fine (CL) with my current settings and shows .85-.87 lambda when in PE. I need to run the 5v signal to the AC or EGR now.Wwhen you're able to get a wideband signal from your LM-1 into your AC pressure sensor signal, we'll edit the calc_pids.txt to use it.

[TunasTwins]

Im ready now.

[joecar]

Can you test the ACP signal by connecting 1 or 2 AA batteries to it, and see if the scantool logs the correct voltage for the pid GM.ACP.

[joecar]

Is your LM-1 programmed to default AFR:V function, or did you program it the same as the LC-1 (use LM Programmer to view the AFR:V function graph)...?

[joecar]

If you can read GM.ACP.V and your LM-1 is programmed to default, here is the calc_pids.txt to read your LM-1 analog voltage thru the ACP input (air conditioner pressure)...



this calc_pids.txt uses your LM-1 wideband analog output (read into the AC pressure sensor circuit) to calculate wideband lambda and WO2BEN...

so it uses both WO2BEN and LTFTBEN (i.e. SELBEN selects whichever one is appropriate based on CL or not CL).

[joecar]

You will have to select the pids CALC.WIDEBAND and GM.ACP.

[TunasTwins]

My work week starts today. I will do the testing next Wednesday. I got the green light to purchase a V2 but would still like to see this to the end. My next project will be to make a harness to quickly replace a nbo2 with the wbo2 and keep closed loop functionality. I see a trip to the junk yard in my near future. Also, my lm1 works great yet I am looking into the 14.7 pure plus. Ground offset will be the decid8ng factor. Im trying to create a system that will aloow me to quickly hook up to to various vehicles f9r street tuning.

[joecar]

I wired my LC-1 to an NBO2 plug that I cut off an old NBO2 (so that the LC-1 gets power/ground from harness, provides NB signal to harness, provides WB analog and serial signals on loose wire that is feed thru transmission lever grommet into passenger compartment)...

you have to be careful: some vehicles switch the NBO2 power/ground on/off while driving (for example GTO does this)... you have to check a wiring diagram for your year/model/vehicle (make sure that NBO2 power and ground do not go thru PCM).

[joecar]

When you do get your V2, you can use the calc_pids.txt that is provided in post #1 of the Calc.VET thread.

[joecar]

Josh,

Check that you can log the pid GM.DYNAIRTMP_DMA...

if you can't (your OS does not support it) then we can edit your calc_pids.txt to use table B4901 from your tune to calculate dynamic air temperature (CALC.DAT).


[ when using V2, there is a B4901 modified calc_pids.txt in post #1 of the Calc.VET thread ]

[joecar]

:doh: lol, that would be post #1 of this thread.

[TunasTwins]

Thanks for the details about the harness. Im at a crossroads between buying the V2 or upgrading to the tunercats CAN device. Either way, I will have to make the harness for nbo2 simulation. It's a question of how easy or how inexpensive I want to make this on myself. Ultimately, I'd like both. The tunercat gives me the ability to do more vehicles with less residual costs; the V2 is just plain sexy. Therefore I've been leaning towards the tunercats first. Ill work on the harness on my weekend.

[TunasTwins]

V2 on its way. Cats next.